DCUO's new superserver setup is going to be a better implimentation of instancing then any other previously instanced MMO.
Just a few days ago you were saying this was not going to be a server merger, but some huge cross server queing system.
Now you are predicting it will be the best server instancing system on the market?
I think you are being a little premature in that conclusion since very little is still known about how things will be on the new servers. On top of that DCU patches have not been very stable or well tested. This is a lot to expect from an emergency situation in a game to make such huge changes in such a short time frame.
DCUO's new superserver setup is going to be a better implimentation of instancing then any other previously instanced MMO.
Just a few days ago you were saying this was not going to be a server merger, but some huge cross server queing system.
Now you are predicting it will be the best server instancing system on the market?
I think you are being a little premature in that conclusion since very little is still known about how things will be on the new servers. On top of that DCU patches have not been very stable or well tested. This is a lot to expect from an emergency situation in a game to make such huge changes in such a short time frame.
I think you misread what I wrote.
I did state they were merging the servers in terms of the queue / raid / alert / arena systems.
I missed out (as did everyone) on the fact that they were also merging one other aspect - world instances.
3 out of the 4 statements I wrote were still true and valid as I said earlier in another reply.
Keep in mind I drew my conclusions logically based on all the information we had available to us at that time.
Most agreed with that conclusion on the DCUO forums and no one guessed it exactly right.
What SoE is doing is a MMO first in terms of merging from a non-instance world system to an instance system.
Also you're confusing guessing what SoE is going to do on SuperServers with an opinion on whether or not their final solutions is going to be good.
When you're reading these threads you need to understand that everyone here is guessing what Sony is going to do based on the information given to us.
RadarX from SoE provided us additional information and now we're a little more certain as to the direction of the mergers.
True it could change a little and we still don't have a straight answer on naming conventions but we have a clearer picture now what they mean by "superServer".
I agree with you that there is likely to be some issues with the "SuperServers" based on past experience with SoE.
However I think if they get the issues worked out, SuperServers will have a positive impact on the population and longevity of the game.
I did state they were merging the servers in terms of the queue / raid / alert / arena systems.
I missed out (as did everyone) on the fact that they were also merging one other aspect - world instances.
3 out of the 4 statements I wrote were still true and valid as I said earlier in another reply.
Keep in mind I drew my conclusions logically based on all the information we had available to us at that time.
Most agreed with that conclusion on the DCUO forums and no one guessed it exactly right.
What SoE is doing is a MMO first in terms of merging from a non-instance world system to an instance system.
Also you're confusing guessing what SoE is going to do on SuperServers with an opinion on whether or not their final solutions is going to be good.
When you're reading these threads you need to understand that everyone here is guessing what Sony is going to do based on the information given to us.
RadarX from SoE provided us additional information and now we're a little more certain as to the direction of the mergers.
True it could change a little and we still don't have a straight answer on naming conventions but we have a clearer picture now what they mean by "superServer".
I agree with you that there is likely to be some issues with the "SuperServers" based on past experience with SoE.
However I think if they get the issues worked out, SuperServers will have a positive impact on the population and longevity of the game.
In your original post in this thread you were crystal clear that SOE was not merging servers. You made matter-of-fact statements "clearing" up other peoples conclusions about what SOE was doing and you were most certainly wrong about it. I wouldn't exactly say you were right on 3 out of 4 things when everything looks to be getting merged together as you claimed it wasn't. You got 3 things out of everything right I guess.
I know you did the best with what was available. The information RadarX persented wasn't clear and should never have been posted that way, but I wouldn't say no one guessed it right like you say . I think I came pretty damn close in reply 12 in this thread and many others have posted the same thing.
SOE might be first in terms of merging a non-instanced world into an instanced world, but they were also first to release an mmo for the PC and PS3 at the same time and look how that turned out.
I did use the term speculating in a portion of the original post but I was assuming that people understood nothing is written in stone.
The emphasis on how I logically came to that conclusion and the breakdown of RadarX post was sort of lost in another similar thread.
I agree with you on your reply 12. It came close to explaining the world instances portion of the "meld" process.
At this point I'm sure all of us haven't heard the final details on exactly what they're going to do with that portion of the merge.
Originally posted by Daffid011
SOE might be first in terms of merging a non-instanced world into an instanced world, but they were also first to release an mmo for the PC and PS3 at the same time and look how that turned out.
The final chapter hasn't been written yet on DCUO so at this point we don't know yet.
If you're talking about the launch it was very successful in terms of population, sales, server up time, no major server side issues, etc during that week.
AoC and STO were both down and out and made dramatic "come back from the dead" recoveries during the end of their first year.
A large chunk of their current population are DCUO fanatics.
If Sony continues to improve the game, doesn't break anything serious with patches, and the SuperServers go off as planned - I see DCUO making a dramatic recovery as well.
AoC was a heavily instanced game and the population decrease was not related to instancing. In fact, AoC had a population boom at the end of 2008 after Gaute was replaced with Craig and they fixed most of the critical flaws. Unfortunately for AoC it was too little too late in the sense that they had already lost 600k+ of their original subs from launch. Population did increase however from 2009-2010 from where it was at in 4th Quarter 2008.
STO population is BOOMING. STO was dead 2nd quarter 2010 but all of a sudden started to pickup steam 4th quarter 2010. Right now the population in all the channels is twice as much as it was in June of 2010.
DCUO instances won't be like Cryptic instances. DCUO unreal engine is much better and can support many many many many many more players on the map at one time. DCUO cities Metropolis and Gotham are also much larger then Cryptic zones / maps. DCUO has fewer areas, much LARGER zones. STO has MORE areas, much SMALLER zones.
This is why DCUO will not be heavily instanced in the general sense of the term. DCUO seemed to have stopped the population decerase and was experiencing a population increase for three weeks prior to the shutdown. Players coming back from RIFT, Sony actually fixed most of the critical exploits / glitches / bugs - BOMB CRASH anyone, DCUO discounted on steam, etc.
I am actually excited about having a single server even if it is instanced. DCUO's new superserver setup is going to be a better implimentation of instancing then any other previously instanced MMO.
Would I like the world to work more like the original Star Wars Galaxies? Of course. I don't know why newer MMOs are less capable then Star Wars Galaxies from housing to zone management. But meh it's not going to be bad like other instanced games.
You have some good points. I am just saying based on my past experiences on "instanced" mmos they have not been very good. Basically you are going to have PVE instanced Metropolis and a PVP instanced Metropolis. At the same time a PVE and a PVP Gotham will be out there. All will be on one super server. So everyone will be divided among the two "zones" in different cities but what about communication? Will the PVE maps be able to chat with the PVP maps regardless if you are in Metropolis or Gotham? Those are the answers that are needed from Sony.
The problem is this. When you start instancing zones and maps in a MMO you are gimping the community. In these types of games the community and communication is everything. It makes it easier to find groups, recruit for your guild or whatever you need. Even as the game is now there really isn't a global chat channel. Something as easy as having this could eliminate a lot of problems.
There are no more game breaking issues like that which caused the exodus.
They've all been addressed for the most part.
There's still some balancing issues or two like Two-Face in legends and with some ranged weapon sets but no one is leaving over them and you can't compare it to say a SWEEP SHOT exploit.
Just curious but when is the last time you played DCUO ?
The past three weeks on the forums people have been commenting on the modest increases (dramatic for DCUO) in pop but the #1 complaint was - SERVER MERGES.
As I said before the veterans, returning players, and new players wanted server merges to help continue to boost the pop increases and maintain existing player base.
Will the PVE maps be able to chat with the PVP maps regardless if you are in Metropolis or Gotham? Those are the answers that are needed from Sony. The problem is this. When you start instancing zones and maps in a MMO you are gimping the community. In these types of games the community and communication is everything. It makes it easier to find groups, recruit for your guild or whatever you need. Even as the game is now there really isn't a global chat channel. Something as easy as having this could eliminate a lot of problems.
RadarX mentioned that they were creating a global chat channel that would expand across all zones (and presumably) over all instances.
I don't think we'll know much more for sure until it goes lives.
Yes server mergers are the biggest complaint, because almost everyone is gone. That however is the RESULT of the games problems, not the cause.
Exploits are not the sole reason people left. While they might be your biggest concerns there have been many many many other reasons people left.
Just read why people actually left and you will see it goes far beyond the exploits. Overall DCU is a very shallow game.
I have to agree. Outside of 3 weeks away, I have been with DCUO since a week after launch, and am active at the DCUO forums.
Exploits were only a single piece of the much larger pie as to why people stated they left. The population problem, and SOE's now emergency scramble to merge the servers, create global channels (which should have been mandatory from the start, at least), and other tech is a direct result of the many issues with the game.
Bugs were just another piece of the pie.
The largest piece, and the one talked about most often by former players, is content.
The 1-30 game is WAY too fast with little replayability. Outside of the level 1-6 Mentor missions, Level 15 mission, and Level 30 end mission . . . every character plays through the exact same mission chains, regardless, to level.
Endgame is by-and-far nothing more than "more difficult rehashes" of the levelling instances/boss fights. While there are a "few" new Hard Alerts, and then the 4 Raids, they are still diminished in perception by the Levelling Content rehashed as "endgame". Rehashed content that you have to grind for marks ad naueum, to get gear, to THEN experience Kahndaq and Batcave1-3.
Content and replayability. It's what caused many to leave and forced a majority of the populaton drop, from all indications by former players. It's what DCUO needs to fix.
It's what the cuts at SOE, including some from the DCUO team, seemed to forced into a production timeframe that is just too slow to keep players, with what the game currently offers.
Combat does not make an MMO. While DCUO combat is cool, it is far from the be-all-end-all, and has hardly spoiled a majority of its players (obviously-- they left) or really impacted the industry. Heck, I switched between DCUO, LoTRO (Premium), and CO (Silver) just fine. Going from DCUO combat to hotkey/cooldown combat wasn't difficult.
SOE, I think, relied way too heavily on their combat engine to sell the game.
So, in the end, Super-Servers are nice, but to retain players, and ever get back old ones in sufficient numbers, they need to add content, content, content.
I agree there is some content issues on the PvE side.
Sony was addressing that with very modest content updates like Batcave 3, Catwoman Challenge Mode, Penguin Challenge Mode, Batcave 2 Inner, Diamond world PvP event, Two face Legends character, Catwoman legends character, Lantern Duo, etc.
Sure a lot of it feels rehashed and redundant but then again I can't think of any MMO I've played that hasn't felt that way at some point.
Could they do better? Of course.
Are they different from any other MMO that started out slow and eventually picked up steam and became successful? No.
I assure you people left because of GAME BREAKING issues not because of "shallow" content or replayability issues.
Those issues encompassed almost all the gameplay in DCUO.
The PvP exploits were so bad at one point early on that even PvE'ers were getting turned off to the game who just wanted to jump in an arena and have a casual but fair fight with other players.
They addressed all the issues 3 of which where semi-implimented / solved and #4 is being resolved slowly but surely.
Keep in mind that a lot of players are turned off by slow leveling too.
The casual gamer enjoys 1-30 content but they want to hit level 30 and start doing raids, hard modes, duos, challenge modes, earn pvp gear etc.
The real leveling in the game is aquiring skill points through feats.
That is incredibly long and cumbersome towards 60+ skill points which is good for those extreme levelers.
Replayability? It was such a minor complaint on the forums I can't remember more then one thread talking about it.
Keep in mind I posted on the forums daily, was in the beta, and am probably one of the top posters in DCUO.
I am also it's harshest critic when they do something stupid.
There are always going to be whiners on the forums but a lot of the whining started to change dramatically once the big issues (such as Sweep shot exploits or BOMB crashing the client) were addressed.
Everyone wants more content more content more content but DCUO is not like any other MMO outside of WoW.
There is only so much they can release in a short period of time.
Especially considering they HAD to fix the game breaking issues too most of which were reported in the beta.
Yes that is there fault and there's no excuse for other then the fact they wanted $$$ now much like Funcom and Cryptic did when they launched too early.
If you were gone for 3 weeks I suspect it was the last three weeks before SoE went down - i.e. when things were really getting fixed,. players were returning from rift, and players started demanding mergers to help continue to bolster the *modest* population increases.
D&G for the past 3 weeks had random pug raids all hours of the day.
I ran a raid on an alt I have on that server at 10am EST in the morning. We did a full clear with a pickup group formed from /shout chat in the Watchtower.
Players on the forums were reporting farming their entire pvp set in less then a week with legitimate arena pops on D&G just before the SoE closures.
I have personally talked to 100+ DCUO players since it's launch in probably 20+ vents.
Most of them left initially for the reasons I listed.
Most of the forum posts are related to the reasons I listed.
The doom and gloom was justified at the start of March but not so much anymore.
DCUO is making a come back and it's going to do well over the next year or at least until SWTOR launches.
The past three weeks on the forums people have been commenting on the modest increases (dramatic for DCUO) in pop but the #1 complaint was - SERVER MERGES.
The past 3 weeks there have been no forums or game on PC side.... just sayin'
AND before they went down the last thread that was on fire was hard core fanatic defenders of the game finally bringing the law on SOE to give them an answer on what they would do about server populations, because even in D&G the lack of players was starting to become apparent.
And that was about a day or 2 after they finally locked down the longest thread in the forums that was complaining of - you guessed it - population dwindling.
Are they different from any other MMO that started out slow and eventually picked up steam and became successful? No.
<<snip>>
Everyone wants more content more content more content but DCUO is not like any other MMO outside of WoW.
This seems like a common theme.
When it is in the favor of DCU, it is like other mmos. When it makes DCU look bad, it isn't like other mmos. It can't be both ways.
Also when you talk about the four biggest issues you saw with DCU, the results could also be looked at this way
1) Exploits: 4 months after release and game breaking exploits still exist
2) Bugs: 4 months after release and many game breaking bugs still exist
3) Content: A total of a few hours worth of content has been added over the course of four months. Not to mention those monthly content updates are averaging 60 days delivery and add so little that they can be easily consumed in less than 24 hours and much of it is just reskinned content that is already in the game.
4) Server mergers: In theory they are coming. What they will accomplish remains to be seen. What they will further delay or new problems they will create remains to be seen. Consolidating population doesn't resolve the issues that caused the decline in the first place. It only treats the result of those problems.
This is on top of the many other issues the game has. The problem with DCU isn't one single issue. The problem with DCU is that almost every single aspect of the game is lacking. There is a combined effect of all these problems touching every aspect of gameplay.
After the server mergers DCU will still be a shallow underdeveloped game that suffers from a variety of issues.
Are they different from any other MMO that started out slow and eventually picked up steam and became successful? No.
<>
Everyone wants more content more content more content but DCUO is not like any other MMO outside of WoW.
This seems like a common theme.
When it is in the favor of DCU, it is like other mmos. When it makes DCU look bad, it isn't like other mmos. It can't be both ways.
Not sure where you're going here.
What I wrote has nothing to do with your last sentence.
I am comparing it to the other MMOs because of the similarities it has to the other MMOs as it relates to DCUO's current timelime / state of the game.
I'm not doing pro/con when it suits me or benefits X game.
I have been very critical of the game in the past especially when it came to the blantent exploiting most of which was recently fixed.
I listed the issues, gave a general sense of how long it took them to fix it, and clearly said they need to do better about it.
If they do not then DCUO will ultimately fall on it's face.
Also when you talk about the four biggest issues you saw with DCU, the results could also be looked at this way
1) Exploits: 4 months after release and game breaking exploits still exist
2) Bugs: 4 months after release and many game breaking bugs still exist
3) Content: A total of a few hours worth of content has been added over the course of four months. Not to mention those monthly content updates are averaging 60 days delivery and add so little that they can be easily consumed in less than 24 hours and much of it is just reskinned content that is already in the game.
4) Server mergers: In theory they are coming. What they will accomplish remains to be seen. What they will further delay or new problems they will create remains to be seen. Consolidating population doesn't resolve the issues that caused the decline in the first place. It only treats the result of those problems.
This is on top of the many other issues the game has. The problem with DCU isn't one single issue. The problem with DCU is that almost every single aspect of the game is lacking. There is a combined effect of all these problems touching every aspect of gameplay.
After the server mergers DCU will still be a shallow underdeveloped game that suffers from a variety of issues.
Be specific.
I listed the exploits, bugs, content, server merge issues that were fixed / resolved with the merges being in a state of resolution.
What "game breaking" bugs, exploits, glitches, etc are you claiming are still left?
I can only assume you didn't play the game for the 4 weeks leading up to closure.
Those issues are gone (for the most part) and were addressed.
Yes server mergers are the biggest complaint, because almost everyone is gone. That however is the RESULT of the games problems, not the cause.
Exploits are not the sole reason people left. While they might be your biggest concerns there have been many many many other reasons people left.
Just read why people actually left and you will see it goes far beyond the exploits. Overall DCU is a very shallow game.
I have to agree. Outside of 3 weeks away, I have been with DCUO since a week after launch, and am active at the DCUO forums.
Exploits were only a single piece of the much larger pie as to why people stated they left. The population problem, and SOE's now emergency scramble to merge the servers, create global channels (which should have been mandatory from the start, at least), and other tech is a direct result of the many issues with the game.
Bugs were just another piece of the pie.
The largest piece, and the one talked about most often by former players, is content.
The 1-30 game is WAY too fast with little replayability. Outside of the level 1-6 Mentor missions, Level 15 mission, and Level 30 end mission . . . every character plays through the exact same mission chains, regardless, to level.
Endgame is by-and-far nothing more than "more difficult rehashes" of the levelling instances/boss fights. While there are a "few" new Hard Alerts, and then the 4 Raids, they are still diminished in perception by the Levelling Content rehashed as "endgame". Rehashed content that you have to grind for marks ad naueum, to get gear, to THEN experience Kahndaq and Batcave1-3.
Content and replayability. It's what caused many to leave and forced a majority of the populaton drop, from all indications by former players. It's what DCUO needs to fix.
It's what the cuts at SOE, including some from the DCUO team, seemed to forced into a production timeframe that is just too slow to keep players, with what the game currently offers.
Combat does not make an MMO. While DCUO combat is cool, it is far from the be-all-end-all, and has hardly spoiled a majority of its players (obviously-- they left) or really impacted the industry. Heck, I switched between DCUO, LoTRO (Premium), and CO (Silver) just fine. Going from DCUO combat to hotkey/cooldown combat wasn't difficult.
SOE, I think, relied way too heavily on their combat engine to sell the game.
So, in the end, Super-Servers are nice, but to retain players, and ever get back old ones in sufficient numbers, they need to add content, content, content.
The. Game. Is. Shallow.
Fun . . . but way too shallow.
Absolutely spot on. I am a *lifetime subscriber*, along with *five* of my friends, and we all dropped DCUO for the exact reasons above.
NinjaBoy, time will tell, but I suspect you will find yourself speech writing for a smaller and smaller audience over time.
I suppose if one is somehow *enthralled* with the combat mechanic, and basically wants some sort of semi-massively multiplayer, online action fighting game (Streets of Rage Online!), then DCUO is enough.
For me, and my buddies (all huge comic fans), DCUO was a week and a half of fun followed by the worst frustration and tedium Ive ever seen. We all just stopped playing. One friend went back to CoH, the rest of us either returned to WoW or went on to some other MMO or just back to MMO retirement.
I check back here periodically to see if *anything* has *truly* changed and it seems like no, it hasnt. The server merge, no matter how you want to spin it, IS a sign of a game in trouble. Earlier a poster said that a healthy game doesnt need to do ANY kind of melding, merging, combining, whatever semantics you choose. That is very true.
Possibly the bug fixes and core structural issue fixes (some of the exploits went beyond "bug fix") will bring back TONS of folks. Wont bring back me, and I suspect unless these "fixes" are BRAND NEW, it hasnt really brought back anyone since the latest news from SOE is the merger, but you never know.
Comments
Just a few days ago you were saying this was not going to be a server merger, but some huge cross server queing system.
Now you are predicting it will be the best server instancing system on the market?
I think you are being a little premature in that conclusion since very little is still known about how things will be on the new servers. On top of that DCU patches have not been very stable or well tested. This is a lot to expect from an emergency situation in a game to make such huge changes in such a short time frame.
I think you misread what I wrote.
I did state they were merging the servers in terms of the queue / raid / alert / arena systems.
I missed out (as did everyone) on the fact that they were also merging one other aspect - world instances.
3 out of the 4 statements I wrote were still true and valid as I said earlier in another reply.
Keep in mind I drew my conclusions logically based on all the information we had available to us at that time.
Most agreed with that conclusion on the DCUO forums and no one guessed it exactly right.
What SoE is doing is a MMO first in terms of merging from a non-instance world system to an instance system.
Also you're confusing guessing what SoE is going to do on SuperServers with an opinion on whether or not their final solutions is going to be good.
When you're reading these threads you need to understand that everyone here is guessing what Sony is going to do based on the information given to us.
RadarX from SoE provided us additional information and now we're a little more certain as to the direction of the mergers.
True it could change a little and we still don't have a straight answer on naming conventions but we have a clearer picture now what they mean by "superServer".
I agree with you that there is likely to be some issues with the "SuperServers" based on past experience with SoE.
However I think if they get the issues worked out, SuperServers will have a positive impact on the population and longevity of the game.
In your original post in this thread you were crystal clear that SOE was not merging servers. You made matter-of-fact statements "clearing" up other peoples conclusions about what SOE was doing and you were most certainly wrong about it. I wouldn't exactly say you were right on 3 out of 4 things when everything looks to be getting merged together as you claimed it wasn't. You got 3 things out of everything right I guess.
I know you did the best with what was available. The information RadarX persented wasn't clear and should never have been posted that way, but I wouldn't say no one guessed it right like you say . I think I came pretty damn close in reply 12 in this thread and many others have posted the same thing.
SOE might be first in terms of merging a non-instanced world into an instanced world, but they were also first to release an mmo for the PC and PS3 at the same time and look how that turned out.
I did use the term speculating in a portion of the original post but I was assuming that people understood nothing is written in stone.
The emphasis on how I logically came to that conclusion and the breakdown of RadarX post was sort of lost in another similar thread.
I agree with you on your reply 12. It came close to explaining the world instances portion of the "meld" process.
At this point I'm sure all of us haven't heard the final details on exactly what they're going to do with that portion of the merge.
The final chapter hasn't been written yet on DCUO so at this point we don't know yet.
If you're talking about the launch it was very successful in terms of population, sales, server up time, no major server side issues, etc during that week.
AoC and STO were both down and out and made dramatic "come back from the dead" recoveries during the end of their first year.
A large chunk of their current population are DCUO fanatics.
If Sony continues to improve the game, doesn't break anything serious with patches, and the SuperServers go off as planned - I see DCUO making a dramatic recovery as well.
That is a BIG "if" however....
What kind of dramatic recovery do you think will occur?
Most of the reasons why people left still exist. A server merger isn't anywhere close to solving the issues of DCU.
You have some good points. I am just saying based on my past experiences on "instanced" mmos they have not been very good. Basically you are going to have PVE instanced Metropolis and a PVP instanced Metropolis. At the same time a PVE and a PVP Gotham will be out there. All will be on one super server. So everyone will be divided among the two "zones" in different cities but what about communication? Will the PVE maps be able to chat with the PVP maps regardless if you are in Metropolis or Gotham? Those are the answers that are needed from Sony.The problem is this. When you start instancing zones and maps in a MMO you are gimping the community. In these types of games the community and communication is everything. It makes it easier to find groups, recruit for your guild or whatever you need. Even as the game is now there really isn't a global chat channel. Something as easy as having this could eliminate a lot of problems.
Holy cow man! Where have you been?
lol no way. - the big reasons why people left do not still exist.
I listed all the critical things that filled up the forums with complaints.
They fixed all of them for the most part with the exception of maybe one or two more minor weapon animation glitches.
Most of the complaints were:
Bomb crash? - FIXED
Time sync hack? - FIXED
Animation glitches? - FIXED
Misc game breaking weapon + power issues i.e. MA/Transmute - FIXED
Weapon exploits (sweep shot / DP vector bug) - FIXED
Mission bugs - FIXED
There are no more game breaking issues like that which caused the exodus.
They've all been addressed for the most part.
There's still some balancing issues or two like Two-Face in legends and with some ranged weapon sets but no one is leaving over them and you can't compare it to say a SWEEP SHOT exploit.
Just curious but when is the last time you played DCUO ?
The past three weeks on the forums people have been commenting on the modest increases (dramatic for DCUO) in pop but the #1 complaint was - SERVER MERGES.
As I said before the veterans, returning players, and new players wanted server merges to help continue to boost the pop increases and maintain existing player base.
RadarX mentioned that they were creating a global chat channel that would expand across all zones (and presumably) over all instances.
I don't think we'll know much more for sure until it goes lives.
Yes server mergers are the biggest complaint, because almost everyone is gone. That however is the RESULT of the games problems, not the cause.
Exploits are not the sole reason people left. While they might be your biggest concerns there have been many many many other reasons people left.
Just read why people actually left and you will see it goes far beyond the exploits. Overall DCU is a very shallow game.
I have to agree. Outside of 3 weeks away, I have been with DCUO since a week after launch, and am active at the DCUO forums.
Exploits were only a single piece of the much larger pie as to why people stated they left. The population problem, and SOE's now emergency scramble to merge the servers, create global channels (which should have been mandatory from the start, at least), and other tech is a direct result of the many issues with the game.
Bugs were just another piece of the pie.
The largest piece, and the one talked about most often by former players, is content.
The 1-30 game is WAY too fast with little replayability. Outside of the level 1-6 Mentor missions, Level 15 mission, and Level 30 end mission . . . every character plays through the exact same mission chains, regardless, to level.
Endgame is by-and-far nothing more than "more difficult rehashes" of the levelling instances/boss fights. While there are a "few" new Hard Alerts, and then the 4 Raids, they are still diminished in perception by the Levelling Content rehashed as "endgame". Rehashed content that you have to grind for marks ad naueum, to get gear, to THEN experience Kahndaq and Batcave1-3.
Content and replayability. It's what caused many to leave and forced a majority of the populaton drop, from all indications by former players. It's what DCUO needs to fix.
It's what the cuts at SOE, including some from the DCUO team, seemed to forced into a production timeframe that is just too slow to keep players, with what the game currently offers.
Combat does not make an MMO. While DCUO combat is cool, it is far from the be-all-end-all, and has hardly spoiled a majority of its players (obviously-- they left) or really impacted the industry. Heck, I switched between DCUO, LoTRO (Premium), and CO (Silver) just fine. Going from DCUO combat to hotkey/cooldown combat wasn't difficult.
SOE, I think, relied way too heavily on their combat engine to sell the game.
So, in the end, Super-Servers are nice, but to retain players, and ever get back old ones in sufficient numbers, they need to add content, content, content.
The. Game. Is. Shallow.
Fun . . . but way too shallow.
I agree there is some content issues on the PvE side.
Sony was addressing that with very modest content updates like Batcave 3, Catwoman Challenge Mode, Penguin Challenge Mode, Batcave 2 Inner, Diamond world PvP event, Two face Legends character, Catwoman legends character, Lantern Duo, etc.
Sure a lot of it feels rehashed and redundant but then again I can't think of any MMO I've played that hasn't felt that way at some point.
Could they do better? Of course.
Are they different from any other MMO that started out slow and eventually picked up steam and became successful? No.
I assure you people left because of GAME BREAKING issues not because of "shallow" content or replayability issues.
Ever play City of Heroes/Villains? lol.
The biggest complaints were:
#1. Exploits - Mostly fixed
#2. Bugs - Mostly fixed especially on the PvE side.
#3. Content - Added some modest content see above
#4. Server Mergers
Those issues encompassed almost all the gameplay in DCUO.
The PvP exploits were so bad at one point early on that even PvE'ers were getting turned off to the game who just wanted to jump in an arena and have a casual but fair fight with other players.
They addressed all the issues 3 of which where semi-implimented / solved and #4 is being resolved slowly but surely.
Keep in mind that a lot of players are turned off by slow leveling too.
The casual gamer enjoys 1-30 content but they want to hit level 30 and start doing raids, hard modes, duos, challenge modes, earn pvp gear etc.
The real leveling in the game is aquiring skill points through feats.
That is incredibly long and cumbersome towards 60+ skill points which is good for those extreme levelers.
Replayability? It was such a minor complaint on the forums I can't remember more then one thread talking about it.
Keep in mind I posted on the forums daily, was in the beta, and am probably one of the top posters in DCUO.
I am also it's harshest critic when they do something stupid.
There are always going to be whiners on the forums but a lot of the whining started to change dramatically once the big issues (such as Sweep shot exploits or BOMB crashing the client) were addressed.
Everyone wants more content more content more content but DCUO is not like any other MMO outside of WoW.
There is only so much they can release in a short period of time.
Especially considering they HAD to fix the game breaking issues too most of which were reported in the beta.
Yes that is there fault and there's no excuse for other then the fact they wanted $$$ now much like Funcom and Cryptic did when they launched too early.
If you were gone for 3 weeks I suspect it was the last three weeks before SoE went down - i.e. when things were really getting fixed,. players were returning from rift, and players started demanding mergers to help continue to bolster the *modest* population increases.
D&G for the past 3 weeks had random pug raids all hours of the day.
I ran a raid on an alt I have on that server at 10am EST in the morning. We did a full clear with a pickup group formed from /shout chat in the Watchtower.
Players on the forums were reporting farming their entire pvp set in less then a week with legitimate arena pops on D&G just before the SoE closures.
I have personally talked to 100+ DCUO players since it's launch in probably 20+ vents.
Most of them left initially for the reasons I listed.
Most of the forum posts are related to the reasons I listed.
The doom and gloom was justified at the start of March but not so much anymore.
DCUO is making a come back and it's going to do well over the next year or at least until SWTOR launches.
The past 3 weeks there have been no forums or game on PC side.... just sayin'
Check out that little graph, its hilarious. http://www.xfire.com/games/dcuo/DC_Universe_Online/ And true, that's only one tiny source but still shows the well knowns overalll trend.
AND before they went down the last thread that was on fire was hard core fanatic defenders of the game finally bringing the law on SOE to give them an answer on what they would do about server populations, because even in D&G the lack of players was starting to become apparent.
And that was about a day or 2 after they finally locked down the longest thread in the forums that was complaining of - you guessed it - population dwindling.
{mod edit}
This seems like a common theme.
When it is in the favor of DCU, it is like other mmos. When it makes DCU look bad, it isn't like other mmos. It can't be both ways.
Also when you talk about the four biggest issues you saw with DCU, the results could also be looked at this way
1) Exploits: 4 months after release and game breaking exploits still exist
2) Bugs: 4 months after release and many game breaking bugs still exist
3) Content: A total of a few hours worth of content has been added over the course of four months. Not to mention those monthly content updates are averaging 60 days delivery and add so little that they can be easily consumed in less than 24 hours and much of it is just reskinned content that is already in the game.
4) Server mergers: In theory they are coming. What they will accomplish remains to be seen. What they will further delay or new problems they will create remains to be seen. Consolidating population doesn't resolve the issues that caused the decline in the first place. It only treats the result of those problems.
This is on top of the many other issues the game has. The problem with DCU isn't one single issue. The problem with DCU is that almost every single aspect of the game is lacking. There is a combined effect of all these problems touching every aspect of gameplay.
After the server mergers DCU will still be a shallow underdeveloped game that suffers from a variety of issues.
Not sure where you're going here.
What I wrote has nothing to do with your last sentence.
I am comparing it to the other MMOs because of the similarities it has to the other MMOs as it relates to DCUO's current timelime / state of the game.
I'm not doing pro/con when it suits me or benefits X game.
I have been very critical of the game in the past especially when it came to the blantent exploiting most of which was recently fixed.
I listed the issues, gave a general sense of how long it took them to fix it, and clearly said they need to do better about it.
If they do not then DCUO will ultimately fall on it's face.
Be specific.
I listed the exploits, bugs, content, server merge issues that were fixed / resolved with the merges being in a state of resolution.
What "game breaking" bugs, exploits, glitches, etc are you claiming are still left?
I can only assume you didn't play the game for the 4 weeks leading up to closure.
Those issues are gone (for the most part) and were addressed.
Shazam bug, Bomb crash, Sweep shot exploit, general animation glitching*, 2h weapon bonus glitch, bomb dmg glitch, dual pistol vector exploit fix, flying + melee weapon fix, lunging fix, etc. etc.
DCUO needs "more" I agree but all the reasons you're listing have been resolved for the most part and don't prove your point.
Absolutely spot on. I am a *lifetime subscriber*, along with *five* of my friends, and we all dropped DCUO for the exact reasons above.
NinjaBoy, time will tell, but I suspect you will find yourself speech writing for a smaller and smaller audience over time.
I suppose if one is somehow *enthralled* with the combat mechanic, and basically wants some sort of semi-massively multiplayer, online action fighting game (Streets of Rage Online!), then DCUO is enough.
For me, and my buddies (all huge comic fans), DCUO was a week and a half of fun followed by the worst frustration and tedium Ive ever seen. We all just stopped playing. One friend went back to CoH, the rest of us either returned to WoW or went on to some other MMO or just back to MMO retirement.
I check back here periodically to see if *anything* has *truly* changed and it seems like no, it hasnt. The server merge, no matter how you want to spin it, IS a sign of a game in trouble. Earlier a poster said that a healthy game doesnt need to do ANY kind of melding, merging, combining, whatever semantics you choose. That is very true.
Possibly the bug fixes and core structural issue fixes (some of the exploits went beyond "bug fix") will bring back TONS of folks. Wont bring back me, and I suspect unless these "fixes" are BRAND NEW, it hasnt really brought back anyone since the latest news from SOE is the merger, but you never know.