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crafting and housing
william62
Member Posts: 32
it's looking like a fail.
on the crafting...
after reading and hoping for innovation..you basically are going to get a slightly better version of what's in "fallen earth" ..
looking at the major pluses and miuses I am left with a pessimistic feeling about the state and direction of swgtor's crafting systems because i've played virtually every major mmo with the hopes of seeing a crafting system equal or near the level that "swg" had (and still has) and unfortunately..the elements they seem to be implimenting are an expanded version of "fallen earth"...where u have crafting quee's that your character completes on them(they are the factory).
sure material quality can determine outcome and you can brand your item ** thanks for that***
compared to what was available to crafters in swg...swgtor seems limited.
it might go beyond what "fallen earth" had to offer crafting wise...but it will inevidably fall way short of swg(sadly).
bonuses=
u can up to 5 crew members to help create items.
u can create a rare "crit" item that can be equal rare quest loot.
crafters with guild support will have an edge.
minuses=
u can only have 5 crew members to help create items.
u can create a rare "crit" that can only equal rare quest loot.
crafters with guild support will have an edge.
will there ever be an MMO coming out that see's the simpicity of the swg crafting system is what works?... (with vendors/factories/harvestors/malls).....
every new MMO borrows from the most recent innovation ..a little of this..a little of that ...to produce the perfect MMO product that everyone will buy and will FAIL!
this is true for combat/crafting/mission design...the whole shabang. Our recent TRENDS on products has driven the direction of MMOs that are coming out and all is becoming a hodge podge of game development.
Oh..On housing...
FAIL.
your ship is your house(base)?
OK..who needs housing if the combat is good?<<<< I DO. me.
if all these games coming out are 90% focused on combat... U won't get my money.
no player economy= FAIL.<<<but who knows maybe the economy will be ok
no decent housing= FAIL.<<<pretty certain 100% fail here.
lame crafting system=FAIL.<<<imo some advancement but THE WRONG ONEs(major FAIL).
I was optimistic looking at this game ...but my hopes seem shattered at this point because it lookslike every other upcoming MMO.....(trying to beat and compete with RECENT games that have a new way of doing this or that).
It's what SOE did with swg when WoW threatened their subscription base...tried to make it MORE LIKE WoW.<<well was one thing they screwed with.
Comments
Uh, sorry to hear you don't like it. looks good enough to me.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I think this describes it best. SWTOR's crafting with its included additional mechanics will be better than what FE and other themepark MMO's have to offer (and maybe some sandbox MMO's included), but it won't be as good or deep as SWG.
But let's be honest: from what I know about it, no MMO besides maybe UO has crafting that equals SWG, other sandbox MMO's included.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think I figured out what is really wrong here.
Maybe you can point me to the link that says SWTOR is going to be even remotely like SWG?
They're completely different types of games. The only thing similar is the Star Wars IP. People on this site can't seem to grasp that concept.
I'll say it again. SWTOR is NOT supposed to be like SWG.
yep. unfortunatel this is the case. I resubbed to swg and love it. I looked a stor with hopes of a similar crafting system,..but what u describe is correct....it appears it has depth...but falls short so they will continue to add features...
the basic layout seemmed interesting until i realized the general scope of it.
part of the disenchantment i recieved from my research included the problem with housing.
i already feel claustraphobic in just a ship....as a base.
this dilenma eve has always taunted it's subscribers with the idea of getting off of ur ship to explor land areas and/or stations of some kind..
strangely swg went from land to space...eve trying to go from space to include land...swgtor looks like it will face the same problem as eve..in the future i guess....(i want a house on land)
but u can't please everyone.
yet most MMOs continue to try(to please everyone).
the bottom line is that they know they will establish a subscription base with 2 things:
1) great graphics (better than most recent releases)
2) a great combat system
the rest is like extra..if u get something good with those two things u got a good release..if the economy is sustained by players ..u got a release that keeps subbscribers.
having the above seems to be the recipe for semi-success in the MMO industry.
I believe a superior MMO will focus on a player driven economy equal to combat/end game aspects of the game..not second to it.
but every game since WOW has basically ponied up to a certian style of creation...with a few exceptions...like eve online(one comes to mind).
it will not 'FAIL' because it doesn't have what you want in crafting. In fact your plus and minus are very similar. 5 crew. So you have 5 'harvesters' you don't need to spend lots on. Ship is a med house, so now you're at 8, 5 crew to craft.. wait now that's 13? More lot's than SWG??
Guild crafters will have an edge? Way to go Captain obvious, like any TEAM-Group that co-operates, and shares resources will not have an edge on the lone wolf solo grinder. If not could you imagine the SWTOR don't support social options, and group play flood storm? SWTOR already suffers from everyone saying it won't be an MMO, it's a solo only game, etc.
SWTOR is not SWG, SWTOR is not Fallen Earth, SWTOR is not PotBS ( pre-economy nerf), and thankfully SWTOR is not WOW. The crafting will be different, and I for one will try the game to see if it's worth staying in.
I am glad I can send my crew off to go 'mine' and not sit in frustration when i get 'Ninja-mined' from a mob aggro, and annother player scoops my node. I'll be glad to not target an asteroid,and alt tab out, waiting for my cargo hold to fill.
Am I jumping up and down Bioware is trying to constantly remind me : "My combat should feel heroic" No.
Still it's been almost 6 years now since the death of Slicing weapons, and crafting 'spice' on Corbantis, and while it's a shame I can not return to the lore as as Mon-Cal.. At least in some way i can return.
Bioware has already said, and search is your friend, that exploration will be involved, as will diplomacy, whether you choose to do those things in between combat and questing is up to you. That's the beauty of social game play, it's interactive,a nd you can start, stop, anytime you like.
Did Rift code quests into taverns and in's for players to goto, and socialize, or did the playerbase do it on their own?
SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011
yep i know it is a different game entirely.
i did not say that i read it was supposed to be like swg.
i hoped the crafting system could be as in-depth as swg.
It's a complex system, probably not as complex as SWG, but still it's an in-depth and easy to use system. Even if you don't like it! And they still have alot to talk about about it and that is why this thread is kind of useless.
I agree that it does lack complexity, but the system seems fine for me. That is until the next mmo with a crafting and houseing system that rivals SWG's comes out.
Retired: EVE, SWG, STO, EQ2, Ryzom, AO, LotRO, FFXI
Currently Awaiting: SWTOR, TSW, ArcheAge
too much of how you define fail seems like SWG 2 or fail......
Difficult to make an opinion.
For example we don't know if the resources have qualities and if they are random. There are no indications whatsoever whether we have to survey for resources either.
Crafting will certainly be closer to Kotor than SWG, but once again we are mostly clueless about crafting system but for the usual buzz words that BioWare is feeding us
Personally, I am just glad that they seem to have back-tracked on the original "crafting isn't heroic enough for our game" attitude that they started out with.
I mean let's face it, man....NO GAME has, or probably ever will have such an exquisite crafting system as old SWG had.
But this is a good compromise, a fair balance, and I'll take it.
Sadly, housing seems to be an enigma to game devs these days. No one can find the balance between instanced garbage or static pre-fabs, and the clutter that SWG turned into. Maybe someone will figure it out down the road, but in the mean time, we need a new Star Wars game to play.
I was one of the most pessimistic people here originally.....I had very low expectations for SWTOR, and expected a simplistic, combat-oriented lewt fest.
I am glad that the game will have more depth than I expected, and honestly can't wait to see what Bioware givs us.
May I ask, what made you change your mind?
I'm curious, because I had a sortlike switch. Not that I was pessimistic about SWTOR, I was just indifferent, even knowing that it was Star Wars and Bioware, it just wasn't enough initially.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That isn't the only thing they've changed their mind on. At first it looked like the eight classes were going to just be cookie cutter classes with specific defined roles that followed the old trinity system. They've greatly expanded that concept and now all classes have more than one choice on the role they can play.
I wasn't very enthused either when this game was first announced. The graphics just looked SO childish. Glad that they've improved it to the point that it is no longer an issue. The economy is something I'm keeping an eye on to see if crafters REALLY can craft items that are on par with what is looted. But this game can't come soon enough for me.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
i will likely buy the game and try the crafting first hand.
i am pretty sure that items will decay? in swgtor that will be an important game factor and effect crafting and the game economy in a big way.
we will see.
thinking about it item decay is critical to creating a dynamic player driven economy...if they can in fact create items equal to the best lootable items.
devs have said that items will lose durability but they won't ever be destroyed. if their durability hits 0 then it just becomes unusable til its repaired
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5456391#edit5456391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orotho
Will armor be HP based? wich means you can loose your armor due to wear and tear?
Armor takes damage during gameplay, but still offers full benefits until such time that it is completely broken. Armor can be repaired for credits. No, we are not looking at permanently destroying items.
hmm yea i was just looking for info on item decay....seems like u got it.
sadly..on that..it seems that crafters/traders will be mostly concerned with creating repair kits than new items themselves.
id rather focus time creating new gear than repair kits. hopefully that won't be the case.
/cries
No I would say it's old style MMO player's desires vs. New stytle MMo player's desires.
That is what this really comes down to... Bioware is creating SW:TOR to appeal to new style, younger MMO players for the most part.
The OP could have said EVE Online or Ultima Online and it would have fit.
Truth is those of us that want a MMO with more indepth crafting and more appropriate housing won't get it... ever... cause the Suits are convinced it's too expensive. The younger players don't care either.
Change sucks. That is what this thread is really all about.
So... if my House, I mean my ship gets blown up, do I lose my new fancy spaceage toilet? Just curious....
I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
...............
"I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
__Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...
@william62
Housing
I did the 14 day trail for SWG a few weeks ago having not played it for several years. What did you think of the vast sprawling empty houses across tantooine? I think trying to balance player housing can be very tricky. Seeing lots of player made ghost towns can really be a let down and adds a really negative effect on the game,
I like the idea bioware has come up with yes you have a house (ship) but it will never be part of a ghost town. EQ2s idea was not bad with intanced housing. Not sure what that like now but freeport was empty a few months into the game and made me feel the same way SWG did just recently.
Crafting
I am sure there are a lot of MMO players that did not like SWG crafting. Games have to compromise and find balance to be good. I enjoyed crafting in EQ2 but man did it have a lot of flaws and I would not want to see it added to a game again. At least in the state it was when I played. The crafting furance was the second top killer of PCs. carzy stuff. Would see players get a major crit and get killed. hehe it was nuts even though I enjoyed it.
In the end don't judge it until you tried it. good luck in finding your crafting game if this is not for you.
I can feel your anger. This game is defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike this game down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards towards the Dark Side will be complete.
well on the housing issue..yea i think the swg was flawed in that the residue from unsubs left a lot of trash out.
but cmon how easy would it be to impliment..a feature that destorys your house upon your unsub...pack it up or lose it.
nothing difficult about that.
I like the idea of housing decay (or out right deletion) but at the same time MMO players leave and resub. Balancing the decay would be difficult. How many people would resub and say OMG my house is gone and leave again? Proabaly most.
It would be like they got rid of all your toons. Who would resub?
I can feel your anger. This game is defenseless. Take your weapon. Strike this game down with all of your hatred, and your journey towards towards the Dark Side will be complete.
SWG crafting system is massivley overrated, and gives huge advantages to people who have been playing for years and hoarded good resources, makes it almost impossible to get into crafting anything decent for a long time, then even if you do, you have to compete with the hoarders.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
I'm sorry but people need to stop comparing SWTOR to SWG. Just because its a starwars game does not mean it has to be like SWG was. Thats not to mention that both publisher and developers are different between the two games. So some of you need to stop whining that this game wont be like your beloved SWG and move on already.
That is one stubby looking thumb. Or is it just me?
There are plenty of ways to deal with it without destroying the house and its contents. EVE has a nice system for hangar rentals that I think would work well with housing. If you stop paying your bill, your items are impounded and cannot be accessed until you pay your bill. Once the impound fee is paid, everything is returned to your inventory and you can do what you want with the items.