At the time, I just ignored all the promises of monthly updates. I knew that was a ridiculous statement to make and knew they had no chance of making that reality. However, I've come to realize that their ability to make such a statement at all speaks to a very serious deficit in integrity at that company.
It's sad because I think with most SOE they get the core game right, and after a few years (and the termination/quitting/reassignment of certain staff), the whole package is pretty good too. But I'm tired of that middle part where you deal with dishonesty, incompetence and hubris.
"The monthly subscription fee means players can expect a lot of new content from us. And I say a lot - I really mean that. This is something that we feel obligated to the players, because they are paying monthly sub fee."
They feel obligated?? That says a lot. There's a BIG difference between charging a sub fee because you're making new content, and making new content just because you're getting overpaid. When someone says something like that, I start to wonder about the quality of the updates....
That's what people have done, that's why the game is in desperate need of server merges.
@OP, aye well anyone with any knowledge of the Smed/SOE track record knew something like this was always likely to be on the cards. Funny thing is it will happen all over again no doubt, people never learn.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Monthly, six weekly, bimonthly tbh I am less interested in the frequency than the actual type of content that is delivered. Clearly with a game so rich and biassed toward presentation the demands on content are greater and therefore a rigidly predetemined timeframe is naive to suggest - and so early in the games life bugs, exploits and imporvements need greater priority as they are more influential to the overall experience.
My major concern atm is the suggestion that raids and alerts are going to be an ongoing focus.....the open gameworld of DCUO is being wasted and artificially made empty by isolating and segregating players into smaller, less diverse instances. In this regard its like the design is driving you away from its greatest and most unique assetts in favour of the kind of stuff you can find anywhere. DCUO has a duty imo to put you into the DC Universe as a whole not sideline you into somewhere that could exist in any game - this is a major design philosophy that has to change imo or more can really end up meaning less regardless of frequency.
Monthly, six weekly, bimonthly tbh I am less interested in the frequency than the actual type of content that is delivered. Clearly with a game so rich and biassed toward presentation the demands on content are greater and therefore a rigidly predetemined timeframe is naive to suggest - and so early in the games life bugs, exploits and imporvements need greater priority as they are more influential to the overall experience.
My major concern atm is the suggestion that raids and alerts are going to be an ongoing focus.....the open gameworld of DCUO is being wasted and artificially made empty by isolating and segregating players into smaller, less diverse instances. In this regard its like the design is driving you away from its greatest and most unique assetts in favour of the kind of stuff you can find anywhere. DCUO has a duty imo to put you into the DC Universe as a whole not sideline you into somewhere that could exist in any game - this is a major design philosophy that has to change imo or more can really end up meaning less regardless of frequency.
Great point. It would be awesome if we got some of the public quest type content which seems to be the content du jour. Where it's done well, it really does generate a lot of excitement.
A lot of people warned players about this. As a avid gamer I want to see lots of SOE titles suceed (especially DCUO). I don't know what's going on at SOE. The recent layoffs, and them formally acknowledging that in DCUO's official forums throws all sorts of red flags up.
I expect the updates to come casually. I think the game will remain as is. I certainly think PS3 users will be content but the PC users will be disappointed. At this point it's going to take a lot to turn this title around and regain the trust from the players.
At the time, I just ignored all the promises of monthly updates. I knew that was a ridiculous statement to make and knew they had no chance of making that reality. However, I've come to realize that their ability to make such a statement at all speaks to a very serious deficit in integrity at that company.
It's sad because I think with most SOE they get the core game right, and after a few years (and the termination/quitting/reassignment of certain staff), the whole package is pretty good too. But I'm tired of that middle part where you deal with dishonesty, incompetence and hubris.
Couldn't say it any better than this^. GL to its fanboys though, just keep tossing them your money like an exploited girlfriend who thinks "Oh one day he'll change"...
It is possible that he had every intention of doing monthly updates. He just forgot to mention that he was only interested in doing them if the server populations kept growing at the rate it did the first month or so of it's release. Once it became evident that the population was stagnating, then they announce the cutbacks.
It's a fairly common practice for SOE to swear up and down that they will or will not do something.....and then once everyone stops discussing it...they change their mind. Which let's be honest, it's people who don't know better by now that are going to buy into the unreasonable statements...and if they haven't bought their way in after 2-3 months.. Only a major expansion might draw them in. And that will be the next time when they make some over the top announcement.....and 2-3 months after expansion is played out that announcement will be quietly forgotten.
The flip-flop nature of SOE in approach to their games drove me away from EQ on a number of occasions, and their yearly expansions/boosters that cost money eventually got too costly/confusing for me justify buying when I decided to give it another try since I was basically buying all of the content over again...and really only playing the base game and some of the good levelling zones in older expansions, but the majority of the time I spent would be only on the newest expansion.
Just remember how SOE treated you when you decided to spend your money on their previous games when they release a new game or a new expansion for the older games. I suspect the next full games will be Planetside 2/Next and possibly Everquest Next(3?) in a couple years. They seem to offer a new expansion for EQ 1/2 every 1-1.5 years now, don't know how they will handle DCUO.
It's a shame really, I want to like their games...but I just can't get past how badly they bungle and just make things irritating/insulting rather than fun/worthwhile.
"The monthly subscription fee means players can expect a lot of new content from us. And I say a lot - I really mean that. This is something that we feel obligated to the players, because they are paying monthly sub fee."
They feel obligated?? That says a lot. There's a BIG difference between charging a sub fee because you're making new content, and making new content just because you're getting overpaid. When someone says something like that, I start to wonder about the quality of the updates....
Yeah, I thought it was just me because nobody else has picked up on that wording.
Specific words mean specific things - I have an "obligation" to pay taxes...I hate doing it, but I do it. I have an obligation to repay my home loan. Again, I wish I didn't have to. Not only is the promise rediculous to make, but to use the word "obligated" (a negative word) was just another poor choice.
He could have said "We're anxious to provide...", "We have so much more to add...", "There are so many stories to still build upon"...or maybe he could have mentioned the CUSTOMER instead of himself..."This is something we enjoy providing to our customers", "Our DC fans deserve"...but to say they feel "obligated"?! Wow.
It is possible that he had every intention of doing monthly updates. He just forgot to mention that he was only interested in doing them if the server populations kept growing at the rate it did the first month or so of it's release. Once it became evident that the population was stagnating, then they announce the cutbacks.
It's a fairly common practice for SOE to swear up and down that they will or will not do something.....and then once everyone stops discussing it...they change their mind. Which let's be honest, it's people who don't know better by now that are going to buy into the unreasonable statements...and if they haven't bought their way in after 2-3 months.. Only a major expansion might draw them in. And that will be the next time when they make some over the top announcement.....and 2-3 months after expansion is played out that announcement will be quietly forgotten.
The flip-flop nature of SOE in approach to their games drove me away from EQ on a number of occasions, and their yearly expansions/boosters that cost money eventually got too costly/confusing for me justify buying when I decided to give it another try since I was basically buying all of the content over again...and really only playing the base game and some of the good levelling zones in older expansions, but the majority of the time I spent would be only on the newest expansion.
Just remember how SOE treated you when you decided to spend your money on their previous games when they release a new game or a new expansion for the older games. I suspect the next full games will be Planetside 2/Next and possibly Everquest Next(3?) in a couple years. They seem to offer a new expansion for EQ 1/2 every 1-1.5 years now, don't know how they will handle DCUO.
It's a shame really, I want to like their games...but I just can't get past how badly they bungle and just make things irritating/insulting rather than fun/worthwhile.
THIS.
Ya know, all SOE games have their charm. Really. The way you want to like them. I mean, heck I played SWG and EQ2 each almost 5 years. But the way SOE handles things is just ABYSMALLY BAD! And DCU... sorry it's just a new low. Chris NGE Cao, the man who used to talk down on SWG players back then REALLY arrogant, recently said DCU was made for people who play a MMO 5 hours a WEEK. Can you imagine anyone play a MMO who has just 5 hours a week to play it? Thats ridiculous! And it's such a blatant LIE! No MMO developer and surely not SOE would make a MMO to pay a monthly fee for a nonexisting crowd of people who play 5 hours a week. And most certainly DC fans - NERDS - that would play only 5 hours a week when they can play alongside BATMAN and SUPERMAN! The very IDEA that DC fans and MMO gamers would play this nerd dream fanatsy only for five hours a week is SO ABSURD that I dunno what aggravates me more: the idea they were so stupid or the idea they just lied to us and it was because the just borked it and now seek excused?
If Chris Cao and his lot REALLY thought DC fans and MMO gamer would play a MMO 5 hours a week... then I want them NEVER EVER TO DEVELOP A MMO OR A GAME EVER AGAIN!
As in "never"!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The only way I think SOE will see what they are doing is wrong is by everyone not buy SOE related mmo products. I really don't know what else we need to see to clearly demonstrate the business practice SOE abides by. We have seen some good titles take a terrible down fall, everything from EQ, SWG, to now DCUO.
The biggest problem with DCUO is that they focused on extra fluff at the expense of core gameplay. OMG Jim Lee art!!! OMG Voice Cast!!! OMG fancy CG Trailer!!!
And yes those things are very cool. I loved the trailer, the art is great and you can't go wrong with Mark Hamil as the Joker. But when I am playing a game that just doesn't have basics like chat and group invites locked down at launch...that is a huge problem. And it is completly stupid. You think they would have learned after the NGE that you cannot put out half finished systems and gameplay but just expect players to be so impressed that they can be a Jedi like Luke Skywalker that they just won't care. Your players aren't going to be excited that one of the things coming in Update 1 is functional chat and group invites in Update 2.
The problem is that SOE has never really figured out that these are not the days when EQ was the only MMO choice out there. They can't put out crap and expect players to keep paying while they work on it. Players will go elsewhere. And while I knew that the whole "monthly" update they were puhing as pre launch hype would eventually fall to the wayside, I have to admit though, I thought it would last longer than 2 months, that's pretty sad.
As far as DC being for players who have 5 hours a week. Well as a Grad student who has been very busy, I will admit that I appreciate a game that allows me to pop in when I can and have some quick fun (which is a reason I like Rift). However, it sounded like Cao was saying that DC was built with that playstyle in mind, and THAT is a issue. DC should NOT be $15 a month if that is how it is designed. It would be much better off as a F2P type game in that regard.
Well if they made it F2P they would just turn it in to DCUO-Extended like EQ-Extended or whatever the hell its called and it would be even worse because the players would have to buy every little thing with real money which would probably end up being a lot more expensive than a monthly fee. They should have called EQ-Extended, EQ-Expensive... Anyways, I dont see how they can salvage this title, maybe im just being negative. Maybe Sony Online Entertainment should be Sony Offline Entertainment and go back to single player titles and maybe some cartoons for nickelodeon.
Interesting little catch there. Though, there really are a lot of factors involved with patches and I think a lot of it can be boiled down to ignorance and too much faith. No matter how many players you have or how much money you throw at the game, you can't make patches appear any faster than they can appear. Apart from 24 hour a day/7 days a week approach to patches, they'll always come when they're ready.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Well, since beta it was obvious they won't deliver. I never understood the concept of the chat design, and don't tell me they haven't done nothing about it yet.
Interesting little catch there. Though, there really are a lot of factors involved with patches and I think a lot of it can be boiled down to ignorance and too much faith. No matter how many players you have or how much money you throw at the game, you can't make patches appear any faster than they can appear. Apart from 24 hour a day/7 days a week approach to patches, they'll always come when they're ready.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
True. But they should have been ready when SOE promised they would be, which was MONTHLY!
Their utter failure to deliver on this is ALL on them. We're close to the 5 month mark here, which should indicate 4 updates...they've released 2. 2 updates in nearly half a year, means only 4 per year...a FAR cry from the 12 a year people expected.
anyone who has been playing mmo game for any amount of time knows noone is going to keep a monthly update schedule, or the updates are going to be tiny.
even if you look at the only mmo it seems everyone knows with WoW, it takes them 3+ months on average to get new content out that involves a new raid or dungeons to do. i wouldnt call balance patches in between updates myself.
the only way any company could keep a monthly update schedule would be to feed you tiny little insignifigant updates, which would generate as much internet hate posts about how these updates are worthless.
it was naive and foolish of him to say it was going to happen, but not any more than people who believed it and are actually upset over it.
Originally posted by shadow417 Originally posted by gaou
Originally posted by shadow417 True... i don't really like SOE, but hey i hope they don't/can't fuck SWTOR over. ,ever trusted DC universe in the first place.
umm SOE has nothing to do with SWTOR. Thats all EA and Bioware
oh yeah, sorry didn't sleep last night xD. i ment Planetside2
I have a funny feeling Planetside:Next will get canceled like the Agent did.
Originally posted by TUX426 Originally posted by Miles-Prower Interesting little catch there. Though, there really are a lot of factors involved with patches and I think a lot of it can be boiled down to ignorance and too much faith. No matter how many players you have or how much money you throw at the game, you can't make patches appear any faster than they can appear. Apart from 24 hour a day/7 days a week approach to patches, they'll always come when they're ready. ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
True. But they should have been ready when SOE promised they would be, which was MONTHLY! Their utter failure to deliver on this is ALL on them. We're close to the 5 month mark here, which should indicate 4 updates...they've released 2. 2 updates in nearly half a year, means only 4 per year...a FAR cry from the 12 a year people expected. Even the aging City of Heroes gets more updates a year than that! Almost every issue there's new content (new zones, new task force/special force, new craftable items, new power sets, etc).
Comments
At the time, I just ignored all the promises of monthly updates. I knew that was a ridiculous statement to make and knew they had no chance of making that reality. However, I've come to realize that their ability to make such a statement at all speaks to a very serious deficit in integrity at that company.
It's sad because I think with most SOE they get the core game right, and after a few years (and the termination/quitting/reassignment of certain staff), the whole package is pretty good too. But I'm tired of that middle part where you deal with dishonesty, incompetence and hubris.
"The monthly subscription fee means players can expect a lot of new content from us. And I say a lot - I really mean that. This is something that we feel obligated to the players, because they are paying monthly sub fee."
They feel obligated?? That says a lot. There's a BIG difference between charging a sub fee because you're making new content, and making new content just because you're getting overpaid. When someone says something like that, I start to wonder about the quality of the updates....
Eat me!
That's what people have done, that's why the game is in desperate need of server merges.
@OP, aye well anyone with any knowledge of the Smed/SOE track record knew something like this was always likely to be on the cards. Funny thing is it will happen all over again no doubt, people never learn.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
[Mod Edit]
some marketing VP was drinking too much coolaid that day. you can almost hear the entire dev staff screaming "DANG!?!" in unison.
is that better? lol
Monthly, six weekly, bimonthly tbh I am less interested in the frequency than the actual type of content that is delivered. Clearly with a game so rich and biassed toward presentation the demands on content are greater and therefore a rigidly predetemined timeframe is naive to suggest - and so early in the games life bugs, exploits and imporvements need greater priority as they are more influential to the overall experience.
My major concern atm is the suggestion that raids and alerts are going to be an ongoing focus.....the open gameworld of DCUO is being wasted and artificially made empty by isolating and segregating players into smaller, less diverse instances. In this regard its like the design is driving you away from its greatest and most unique assetts in favour of the kind of stuff you can find anywhere. DCUO has a duty imo to put you into the DC Universe as a whole not sideline you into somewhere that could exist in any game - this is a major design philosophy that has to change imo or more can really end up meaning less regardless of frequency.
Great point. It would be awesome if we got some of the public quest type content which seems to be the content du jour. Where it's done well, it really does generate a lot of excitement.
I expect the updates to come casually. I think the game will remain as is. I certainly think PS3 users will be content but the PC users will be disappointed. At this point it's going to take a lot to turn this title around and regain the trust from the players.
Couldn't say it any better than this^. GL to its fanboys though, just keep tossing them your money like an exploited girlfriend who thinks "Oh one day he'll change"...
It is possible that he had every intention of doing monthly updates. He just forgot to mention that he was only interested in doing them if the server populations kept growing at the rate it did the first month or so of it's release. Once it became evident that the population was stagnating, then they announce the cutbacks.
It's a fairly common practice for SOE to swear up and down that they will or will not do something.....and then once everyone stops discussing it...they change their mind. Which let's be honest, it's people who don't know better by now that are going to buy into the unreasonable statements...and if they haven't bought their way in after 2-3 months.. Only a major expansion might draw them in. And that will be the next time when they make some over the top announcement.....and 2-3 months after expansion is played out that announcement will be quietly forgotten.
The flip-flop nature of SOE in approach to their games drove me away from EQ on a number of occasions, and their yearly expansions/boosters that cost money eventually got too costly/confusing for me justify buying when I decided to give it another try since I was basically buying all of the content over again...and really only playing the base game and some of the good levelling zones in older expansions, but the majority of the time I spent would be only on the newest expansion.
Just remember how SOE treated you when you decided to spend your money on their previous games when they release a new game or a new expansion for the older games. I suspect the next full games will be Planetside 2/Next and possibly Everquest Next(3?) in a couple years. They seem to offer a new expansion for EQ 1/2 every 1-1.5 years now, don't know how they will handle DCUO.
It's a shame really, I want to like their games...but I just can't get past how badly they bungle and just make things irritating/insulting rather than fun/worthwhile.
Yeah, I thought it was just me because nobody else has picked up on that wording.
Specific words mean specific things - I have an "obligation" to pay taxes...I hate doing it, but I do it. I have an obligation to repay my home loan. Again, I wish I didn't have to. Not only is the promise rediculous to make, but to use the word "obligated" (a negative word) was just another poor choice.
He could have said "We're anxious to provide...", "We have so much more to add...", "There are so many stories to still build upon"...or maybe he could have mentioned the CUSTOMER instead of himself..."This is something we enjoy providing to our customers", "Our DC fans deserve"...but to say they feel "obligated"?! Wow.
THIS.
Ya know, all SOE games have their charm. Really. The way you want to like them. I mean, heck I played SWG and EQ2 each almost 5 years. But the way SOE handles things is just ABYSMALLY BAD! And DCU... sorry it's just a new low. Chris NGE Cao, the man who used to talk down on SWG players back then REALLY arrogant, recently said DCU was made for people who play a MMO 5 hours a WEEK. Can you imagine anyone play a MMO who has just 5 hours a week to play it? Thats ridiculous! And it's such a blatant LIE! No MMO developer and surely not SOE would make a MMO to pay a monthly fee for a nonexisting crowd of people who play 5 hours a week. And most certainly DC fans - NERDS - that would play only 5 hours a week when they can play alongside BATMAN and SUPERMAN! The very IDEA that DC fans and MMO gamers would play this nerd dream fanatsy only for five hours a week is SO ABSURD that I dunno what aggravates me more: the idea they were so stupid or the idea they just lied to us and it was because the just borked it and now seek excused?
If Chris Cao and his lot REALLY thought DC fans and MMO gamer would play a MMO 5 hours a week... then I want them NEVER EVER TO DEVELOP A MMO OR A GAME EVER AGAIN!
As in "never"!
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
The biggest problem with DCUO is that they focused on extra fluff at the expense of core gameplay. OMG Jim Lee art!!! OMG Voice Cast!!! OMG fancy CG Trailer!!!
And yes those things are very cool. I loved the trailer, the art is great and you can't go wrong with Mark Hamil as the Joker. But when I am playing a game that just doesn't have basics like chat and group invites locked down at launch...that is a huge problem. And it is completly stupid. You think they would have learned after the NGE that you cannot put out half finished systems and gameplay but just expect players to be so impressed that they can be a Jedi like Luke Skywalker that they just won't care. Your players aren't going to be excited that one of the things coming in Update 1 is functional chat and group invites in Update 2.
The problem is that SOE has never really figured out that these are not the days when EQ was the only MMO choice out there. They can't put out crap and expect players to keep paying while they work on it. Players will go elsewhere. And while I knew that the whole "monthly" update they were puhing as pre launch hype would eventually fall to the wayside, I have to admit though, I thought it would last longer than 2 months, that's pretty sad.
As far as DC being for players who have 5 hours a week. Well as a Grad student who has been very busy, I will admit that I appreciate a game that allows me to pop in when I can and have some quick fun (which is a reason I like Rift). However, it sounded like Cao was saying that DC was built with that playstyle in mind, and THAT is a issue. DC should NOT be $15 a month if that is how it is designed. It would be much better off as a F2P type game in that regard.
Well if they made it F2P they would just turn it in to DCUO-Extended like EQ-Extended or whatever the hell its called and it would be even worse because the players would have to buy every little thing with real money which would probably end up being a lot more expensive than a monthly fee. They should have called EQ-Extended, EQ-Expensive... Anyways, I dont see how they can salvage this title, maybe im just being negative. Maybe Sony Online Entertainment should be Sony Offline Entertainment and go back to single player titles and maybe some cartoons for nickelodeon.
Interesting little catch there. Though, there really are a lot of factors involved with patches and I think a lot of it can be boiled down to ignorance and too much faith. No matter how many players you have or how much money you throw at the game, you can't make patches appear any faster than they can appear. Apart from 24 hour a day/7 days a week approach to patches, they'll always come when they're ready.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Even when they are not ready.
Well, since beta it was obvious they won't deliver. I never understood the concept of the chat design, and don't tell me they haven't done nothing about it yet.
Just about every MMO dev that has promised "monthly updates" hasn't lived up to their claims.
True. But they should have been ready when SOE promised they would be, which was MONTHLY!
Their utter failure to deliver on this is ALL on them. We're close to the 5 month mark here, which should indicate 4 updates...they've released 2. 2 updates in nearly half a year, means only 4 per year...a FAR cry from the 12 a year people expected.
anyone who has been playing mmo game for any amount of time knows noone is going to keep a monthly update schedule, or the updates are going to be tiny.
even if you look at the only mmo it seems everyone knows with WoW, it takes them 3+ months on average to get new content out that involves a new raid or dungeons to do. i wouldnt call balance patches in between updates myself.
the only way any company could keep a monthly update schedule would be to feed you tiny little insignifigant updates, which would generate as much internet hate posts about how these updates are worthless.
it was naive and foolish of him to say it was going to happen, but not any more than people who believed it and are actually upset over it.
oh yeah, sorry didn't sleep last night xD. i ment Planetside2
I have a funny feeling Planetside:Next will get canceled like the Agent did.
Their utter failure to deliver on this is ALL on them. We're close to the 5 month mark here, which should indicate 4 updates...they've released 2. 2 updates in nearly half a year, means only 4 per year...a FAR cry from the 12 a year people expected.
Even the aging City of Heroes gets more updates a year than that! Almost every issue there's new content (new zones, new task force/special force, new craftable items, new power sets, etc).
It will turn free 2 play within 6 months and 6 months after that it will be a desert. Just what I think.