Yeah . .. and most people do not gamble with high stakes and hang out with the slot machines. Go figure.
7k subs is actually pretty decent. They have even been able to hire a larger team to continue providing more content.
First statement:... wha?
Second statement: no, 7k subs is terrible. MMOs don't stay alive with 7k subs. Earth & Beyond died, completely, with 30k subs. Auto Assult, Tabula Rasa, these games died because they had too few subs. To say that 7k is pretty decent... what are you comparing it to? There are Private servers for MMOs with more subs than that.
Tabula Rasa died because of the mess between Richard Garriott (constantly re-programming the game from scratch) and NCSoft. Low subs was merely a consequence of this. Just sayin'
Tabula Rasa died because of the mess between Richard Garriott (constantly re-programming the game from scratch) and NCSoft. Low subs was merely a consequence of this. Just sayin'
I think you have it half right. Garriott may have been the cause of the low subs, but the low subs are what killed it. NCsoft loves money. If the game had been as successful as lineage2 they would have gladly put up with his antics. MMOs die when they no longer turn a good profit. 7k subs is not a good profit.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Yeah . .. and most people do not gamble with high stakes and hang out with the slot machines. Go figure.
7k subs is actually pretty decent. They have even been able to hire a larger team to continue providing more content.
First statement:... wha?
Second statement: no, 7k subs is terrible. MMOs don't stay alive with 7k subs. Earth & Beyond died, completely, with 30k subs. Auto Assult, Tabula Rasa, these games died because they had too few subs. To say that 7k is pretty decent... what are you comparing it to? There are Private servers for MMOs with more subs than that.
7k subs would be terrible for all those games since they were big budget projects with high expectations from their publishers. So of course I can see why they are cancelled. AV is publisher and developer so they have a little more room to continue working on their game and keeping it alive. Not to mention extra revenue from the licenscing of their code and other programs. They did build DF from sratch and their team is much smaller so less hands to pay for.
True, their small team may help, but it is still only 7k subs. Earth & Beyond wasn't a huge project, and it died at 30k subs. thats more than 4x as many. You can hold Darkfall to a lower standard, but even then 7k is a VERY small number for any MMO.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
True, their small team may help, but it is still only 7k subs. Earth & Beyond wasn't a huge project, and it died at 30k subs. thats more than 4x as many. You can hold Darkfall to a lower standard, but even then 7k is a VERY small number for any MMO.
Like I said though, they probably have other revenue streams than just DF and plus lower property taxes in Greece, lower taxes, lower commodity prices. There's a lot of factors to consider. Subs is just one number to a picture.
Very true. subs are just 1 part of the picture. However, they are the biggest part of the picture. the main revenue stream for an MMO is its subscriber base. This means the monthly fee, and cash shop items they can sell, paid expansions, or as Blizzard has shown, whoring out just about everything to do with the game to the subscriber base (shirts, plushies, themed soda, figures of your toon ect). but all that money comes from people who play the game. the fewer people who play the game, the fewer people you have to draw from for everything.
The special situation they have for darkfall may help, but the foundation they have to build on is very, very, -very- small.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Very true. subs are just 1 part of the picture. However, they are the biggest part of the picture. the main revenue stream for an MMO is its subscriber base. This means the monthly fee, and cash shop items they can sell, paid expansions, or as Blizzard has shown, whoring out just about everything to do with the game to the subscriber base (shirts, plushies, themed soda, figures of your toon ect). but all that money comes from people who play the game. the fewer people who play the game, the fewer people you have to draw from for everything.
The special situation they have for darkfall may help, but the foundation they have to build on is very, very, -very- small.
I gaurantee if we were able to look at Blizzards books, more money would come from advertising. I can almost gaurantee this. Subs, as many editorials have spoken about, are an aging business asset and really don't garner the necessary capital to fund a project anymore. Advertising is the way to go these days.
Very true. subs are just 1 part of the picture. However, they are the biggest part of the picture. the main revenue stream for an MMO is its subscriber base. This means the monthly fee, and cash shop items they can sell, paid expansions, or as Blizzard has shown, whoring out just about everything to do with the game to the subscriber base (shirts, plushies, themed soda, figures of your toon ect). but all that money comes from people who play the game. the fewer people who play the game, the fewer people you have to draw from for everything.
The special situation they have for darkfall may help, but the foundation they have to build on is very, very, -very- small.
I gaurantee if we were able to look at Blizzards books, more money would come from advertising. I can almost gaurantee this. Subs, as many editorials have spoken about, are an aging business asset and really don't garner the necessary capital to fund a project anymore. Advertising is the way to go these days.
yes but av don't do that..
They recently put a boxed version in russia out and it seems that more russians joining each day
Very true. subs are just 1 part of the picture. However, they are the biggest part of the picture. the main revenue stream for an MMO is its subscriber base. This means the monthly fee, and cash shop items they can sell, paid expansions, or as Blizzard has shown, whoring out just about everything to do with the game to the subscriber base (shirts, plushies, themed soda, figures of your toon ect). but all that money comes from people who play the game. the fewer people who play the game, the fewer people you have to draw from for everything.
The special situation they have for darkfall may help, but the foundation they have to build on is very, very, -very- small.
I gaurantee if we were able to look at Blizzards books, more money would come from advertising. I can almost gaurantee this. Subs, as many editorials have spoken about, are an aging business asset and really don't garner the necessary capital to fund a project anymore. Advertising is the way to go these days.
yes but av don't do that..
They recently put a boxed version in russia out and it seems that more russians joining each day
they do have bad advertisement
Has there been? I'd be curious of the numbers on that. A boxed version in NA would certainly give it more visibility. Honestly, visibility is the problem right now.
I've recently said this somewhere here before but it seems people don't realise Tasos' business plan here. I'll try make it easy to read instead of a block of text.
- Game had to release way too early, buggy, underdeveloped, not enough content.
- AV made sure to do zero advertising because they don't want people to be trying out the game right now
- Small dedicated player base desperate for such a game keeps the game afloat, client sales ect huge revenue incoming so they keep developing the game
- Just over two years later AV are preparing the final expansion before they launch the game for real, this final expansion will bring Darkfall upto a standard which modern day MMO gamers expect with AAA games
- With this expansion there will also be a relaunch and mass advertising
AV are not stupid, they've been playing their cards right for a long time now. They don't really want the masses to be trying the game out now because they know it'll get flamed to death for many of its flaws, hopefully to be fixed with this expansion like they've promised.
I gaurantee if we were able to look at Blizzards books, more money would come from advertising. I can almost gaurantee this. Subs, as many editorials have spoken about, are an aging business asset and really don't garner the necessary capital to fund a project anymore. Advertising is the way to go these days.
You really think so? I don't really frequent the official WoW site so I have no idea if they are advertising other products but... I really think that's wrong. Blizz has been whoring out products like mad, in game pets, rainbow unicorns, race/faction/name changes (thats a big one), plushies ect, and making tons of money. also with their massive player base their subs generate some massive capital.
It's not the 12million x 15$ a month that some people quote of course, seeing as more than half their subs are in asia, and I know China doesn't pay monthly fees, they pay by the hour (not sure about Korea, the other big market over there).
If what you say is true, I find that very interesting. I just havn't come across any of that in WoW.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Visibility may be part of the problem with Darfkall, but regardless of how much attention the game got, it would still not be able to retain players at any decent rate due to the FFA full-loot PvP nature of the game. Add to that the clunky UI, comparatively sub-par graphics and the grind which most gamers would not be able to withstand and you arrive at an abysmal player retention rate.
There is only so much advertising can do. The rest must be done by actually fixing the problems with the game.
Visibility may be part of the problem with Darfkall, but regardless of how much attention the game got, it would still not be able to retain players at any decent rate due to the FFA full-loot PvP nature of the game. Add to that the clunky UI, comparatively sub-par graphics and the grind which most gamers would not be able to withstand and you arrive at an abysmal player retention rate.
There is only so much advertising can do. The rest must be done by actually fixing the problems with the game.
The game has always been marketed as a niche game. Always. So the idea behind the marketing is that they will draw in some people, some will stay. It's an obvious strategy. They do not expect everyone to. I also like how you generalize what people may or may not like. Some people may like the full loot. Some may be able to look past the UI. Some don't mind graphics since the gameplay is good. And the grind isn't any different than WoW. Good try bud, you make no sense.
Visibility may be part of the problem with Darfkall, but regardless of how much attention the game got, it would still not be able to retain players at any decent rate due to the FFA full-loot PvP nature of the game. Add to that the clunky UI, comparatively sub-par graphics and the grind which most gamers would not be able to withstand and you arrive at an abysmal player retention rate.
There is only so much advertising can do. The rest must be done by actually fixing the problems with the game.
The game has always been marketed as a niche game. Always. So the idea behind the marketing is that they will draw in some people, some will stay. It's an obvious strategy. They do not expect everyone to. I also like how you generalize what people may or may not like. Some people may like the full loot. Some may be able to look past the UI. Some don't mind graphics since the gameplay is good. And the grind isn't any different than WoW. Good try bud, you make no sense.
I am speaking in terms of what is generally considered success in the MMO market (i.e. subscription numbers). You can argue all you want about Darkfall being a niche game, but I guarantee you that AV does care about subs.
I personally can handle the clunky UI and the FFA full-loot PvP aspects of the game. I actually don't mind those things about the game, but lets face it, the majority of MMO players do not. That fact alone will keep Darkfall from ever reaching big subscription numbers.
There is also a big lack of filler content from early to end game and the progression is therefore considered by most people I have talked to to be pretty boring. Too many repetitive tasks are required and too little unique content exists to mask the grind. The fact that it also takes a very long time to progress to a competitive level and you've got a game that fails to KEEP most players. Darkfall will never retain substantial numbers of players until they can make the game fun from beginning to end for their niche. Right now, the game is not even retaining most of the niche audience it is targetting because a huge number of those players find the grind to be boring and lose interest before end-game.
You know, I really don't buy the whole "most people are turned away by full loot."
based off what statistic are you all using to determine "most mmoers don't like full loot" ?
Do most mmoers even know that exist? I think that question probably has more basis then the previous line of thinking. Most mmo-ers, and this is not just including wow-gamers- this includes f2p gamers, and themepark gamers in general think the theme park is the only mmo-mold period.
Just ask your guilds in themeparks games if they know any sandbox mmo's or full loot, and see how many have no idea what you are talking about.
Now if you want to bring up past games with player looting... that really does not have much basis either. All the games I know of wiht player looting (wiht the exception of two or three) all had major, glaring problems in other areas of the game. But a lot of them still got a lot of attention.
Darkfall and mortal online both had a crazy amount of attention prior to their betas/releases where it then plummeted because the games were well... you all know.
But you can also look at games like UO and Runescape( Ya I said it!) UO at its prime was very popular (relative to the market then).
Runescape ,granted not full loot but pretty much, is still one of the most popular mmo's. And what was the biggest controversy of all time in that game? When the wilderness (ffa) was taken away. Also granted that it wasn't ffa everywhere in runescape, I still think that it's a valid point. Because no one in that game was scared of the wilderness, they loved it. And that is a "kid" game in most eyes.
I really don't think it's fair to say that the majoriry of mmo-players don't like ffa full loot, becuase that has no basis. These types of games always get a lot of hype, and a lot of mmo-gamers i would guess don't evem know what they are. If they played one and saw that dieing is really not a big deal, I don't think they would care.
Now, if a properly made full loot game was made, meaning that it was polished, had good mechanics ect, and had big money to back up its advertisement, I think it would do really good. Not wow good, because nohing will do wow good, but at least eve good, if not better.
You know, I really don't buy the whole "most people are turned away by full loot."
based off what statistic are you all using to determine "most mmoers don't like full loot" ?
Do most mmoers even know that exist? I think that question probably has more basis then the previous line of thinking. Most mmo-ers, and this is not just including wow-gamers- this includes f2p gamers, and themepark gamers in general think the theme park is the only mmo-mold period.
Just ask your guilds in themeparks games if they know any sandbox mmo's or full loot, and see how many have no idea what you are talking about.
Exactly what I was going to say. There are no measurable statistics, people are just assuming. The real problem is visibility. Maybe some gamers are looking for that challenge and are tired of WoW type MMOs. We don't know and it's unfair to make sweeping generalizations carelessly because of your experience.
You know, I really don't buy the whole "most people are turned away by full loot."
based off what statistic are you all using to determine "most mmoers don't like full loot" ?
Do most mmoers even know that exist? I think that question probably has more basis then the previous line of thinking. Most mmo-ers, and this is not just including wow-gamers- this includes f2p gamers, and themepark gamers in general think the theme park is the only mmo-mold period.
Just ask your guilds in themeparks games if they know any sandbox mmo's or full loot, and see how many have no idea what you are talking about.
Exactly what I was going to say. There are no measurable statistics, people are just assuming. The real problem is visibility. Maybe some gamers are looking for that challenge and are tired of WoW type MMOs. We don't know and it's unfair to make sweeping generalizations carelessly because of your experience.
You are absolutely right, SOME players (like us) are looking for that challenge and are tired of WOW-type MMOs. It is still safe to say that the vast majority are not though...
This is why MMORPGs started as what we would define as 'hardcore' games and have gradually become easier and less aggressive as time has gone on. They have steadily evolved to games where players can rarely attack each other without consent and never risk anything while doing so. While Darkfall may never have released official sub numbers, other games have many times. The subscription numbers on these carebear games are extremely high compared to what we can assume Darkfall has. Subscription numbers speak for themselves... if full loot FFA pvp was really so successful, I think Darkfall and MO would be doing much better than they are.
I have to agree with some here; The UI was of minor "issue" for me. But all the buffings was a bit too,well, clunky (in lack of better word). I foud the way buffs worked in DFO absolutely tiredsome; it was like too little out for myself, but still required to do. It is a bit hard for me to explain, but I really disliked it.
Regarding the UI; I love fiddling with UI's and keybindings, but I have zero problems understanding the average game would find it totally terrible.
A few things that makes DFO a living hell of a grind;
-UI
-AFK macroing
-Macros ingame (forget being good at pvp unless you using keyboard & mouse that supports macros)
-Buffs & buff system
And now I am not even taking into consideration the skill grind NOR the grind you need for tradeskills.
Conclusion; Fun stuff in DFO, but it is definately only a small miche game, and barely that. I would play it still, if it wasnt for all the grind. I guess.
AV have already paid off the development costs and loans for developing the game.
AV have moved into a bigger office.
AV have purchased a motion capture studio.
AV have increased the size of their dev team by quiet a bit over the last two years.
... They're absolutely fine financially.
Point 1,2, and 4 have happened within the first 6 months since Launch I believe, which is where DarkFall made the largest amount of profit (second being around CtS expac). AV have also shown pictures of the new office, etc.
Point 3 however, I'm rather skeptical. Whenever AV really gets something new, they don't wait very long to boast about it with pictures or long post. However, the motion capture studio has only been mentionned a few times ( Less than 5 for sure), and they've never really went into the details nor shown any images, pictures or videos. Same happened when they allegedly brought changes to their Server hardware to improve performance and increase the speed at which they can patch on the game (never happened).
AV have already paid off the development costs and loans for developing the game.
AV have moved into a bigger office.
AV have purchased a motion capture studio.
AV have increased the size of their dev team by quiet a bit over the last two years.
... They're absolutely fine financially.
Point 1,2, and 4 have happened within the first 6 months since Launch I believe, which is where DarkFall made the largest amount of profit (second being around CtS expac). AV have also shown pictures of the new office, etc.
Point 3 however, I'm rather skeptical. Whenever AV really gets something new, they don't wait very long to boast about it with pictures or long post. However, the motion capture studio has only been mentionned a few times ( Less than 5 for sure), and they've never really went into the details nor shown any images, pictures or videos. Same happened when they allegedly brought changes to their Server hardware to improve performance and increase the speed at which they can patch on the game (never happened).
There was a spotlight showing pictures how they was using it, means on development not the ready animations tho.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
AV have already paid off the development costs and loans for developing the game.
AV have moved into a bigger office.
AV have purchased a motion capture studio.
AV have increased the size of their dev team by quiet a bit over the last two years.
... They're absolutely fine financially.
Point 1,2, and 4 have happened within the first 6 months since Launch I believe, which is where DarkFall made the largest amount of profit (second being around CtS expac). AV have also shown pictures of the new office, etc.
Point 3 however, I'm rather skeptical. Whenever AV really gets something new, they don't wait very long to boast about it with pictures or long post. However, the motion capture studio has only been mentionned a few times ( Less than 5 for sure), and they've never really went into the details nor shown any images, pictures or videos. Same happened when they allegedly brought changes to their Server hardware to improve performance and increase the speed at which they can patch on the game (never happened).
Point 1 happened about 3-4 months ago.
Point 2 happened a long time back.
Point 3 also, they've added a few specific mob animations (pretty good tbh) but have stated they're using it for the new upcoming player models to have them animated fluently. Which would take a long time and is coming this expansion.
Edit: Having fully understoof the meaning of your first sentence you're trying to imply that they're no longer doing well. They've just paid to move to new servers. Subscribers have been increasing. AV within the last 3-4 months recruited two new staff members. I'm sure they're doing fine. No need to worry.
Edit: Having fully understoof the meaning of your first sentence you're trying to imply that they're no longer doing well. They've just paid to move to new servers. Subscribers have been increasing. AV within the last 3-4 months recruited two new staff members. I'm sure they're doing fine. No need to worry.
I'm not sure how you came up with my first sentence implying that they're no longer doing well, because I haven't said anything remotely close. Although I do believe they are not doing well, but my first sentence did not even scratched that subject. It's an obvious fact that DarkFall's made the largest amount of Sales at Launch (like 99.999999999% of the P2P MMORPGs out there) and while the population dwindled down quite a bit in the following months, Conquer The Sea Expac had brought a significant amount of fresh blood (NEW's roster hitting high above 300 members every week). Given those circumstances, it's very likely that, had Aventurine have any debts and such, that they have been able to repay them around those time. You also have to remember that DarkFall isn't all that they are working on, and they've had dealing with the Greece Defense Contractors, and are looking to sell their engine used to build DarkFall, so it's very likely that they've received money outside of DarkFall, thus allowing them to pay the bills within the first year.
This is what I was implying. But AV is still struggling nowadays that's for sure.
As for the server change as Sid mentionned, 3 possibilities:
1. They'll save more money in the long-term with the host in Chicago than they would with the previous one.
2. It's an investment, hoping it may bring back some players who have had ping issues in the past and had to leave Darkfall behind.
3. To improve the overall performance for upcoming changes.
As for the server change as Sid mentionned, 3 possibilities:
1. They'll save more money in the long-term with the host in Chicago than they would with the previous one.
2. It's an investment, hoping it may bring back some players who have had ping issues in the past and had to leave Darkfall behind.
3. To improve the overall performance for upcoming changes.
I would vote #1 as being the most likely but wouldn't give my hopes up.
If they were relaunching the game that would be tight but I doubt that they would wipe the current servers. I think that by relaunch they meant that they will start advertising the game for the first time after the next expansion. If the servers were wiped I would be fine with that.
They have put in a hell of a lot of work it seems like . .. I am excited to see the results! So much is talked about and so little shown that people probably are thinking that its vaporware and that the expansion Hellfreeze is over next year sometime.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Comments
Tabula Rasa died because of the mess between Richard Garriott (constantly re-programming the game from scratch) and NCSoft. Low subs was merely a consequence of this. Just sayin'
I think you have it half right. Garriott may have been the cause of the low subs, but the low subs are what killed it. NCsoft loves money. If the game had been as successful as lineage2 they would have gladly put up with his antics. MMOs die when they no longer turn a good profit. 7k subs is not a good profit.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
7k subs would be terrible for all those games since they were big budget projects with high expectations from their publishers. So of course I can see why they are cancelled. AV is publisher and developer so they have a little more room to continue working on their game and keeping it alive. Not to mention extra revenue from the licenscing of their code and other programs. They did build DF from sratch and their team is much smaller so less hands to pay for.
True, their small team may help, but it is still only 7k subs. Earth & Beyond wasn't a huge project, and it died at 30k subs. thats more than 4x as many. You can hold Darkfall to a lower standard, but even then 7k is a VERY small number for any MMO.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Like I said though, they probably have other revenue streams than just DF and plus lower property taxes in Greece, lower taxes, lower commodity prices. There's a lot of factors to consider. Subs is just one number to a picture.
AV have already paid off the development costs and loans for developing the game.
AV have moved into a bigger office.
AV have purchased a motion capture studio.
AV have increased the size of their dev team by quiet a bit over the last two years.
... They're absolutely fine financially.
Very true. subs are just 1 part of the picture. However, they are the biggest part of the picture. the main revenue stream for an MMO is its subscriber base. This means the monthly fee, and cash shop items they can sell, paid expansions, or as Blizzard has shown, whoring out just about everything to do with the game to the subscriber base (shirts, plushies, themed soda, figures of your toon ect). but all that money comes from people who play the game. the fewer people who play the game, the fewer people you have to draw from for everything.
The special situation they have for darkfall may help, but the foundation they have to build on is very, very, -very- small.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
I gaurantee if we were able to look at Blizzards books, more money would come from advertising. I can almost gaurantee this. Subs, as many editorials have spoken about, are an aging business asset and really don't garner the necessary capital to fund a project anymore. Advertising is the way to go these days.
yes but av don't do that..
They recently put a boxed version in russia out and it seems that more russians joining each day
they do have bad advertisement
Has there been? I'd be curious of the numbers on that. A boxed version in NA would certainly give it more visibility. Honestly, visibility is the problem right now.
I've recently said this somewhere here before but it seems people don't realise Tasos' business plan here. I'll try make it easy to read instead of a block of text.
- Game had to release way too early, buggy, underdeveloped, not enough content.
- AV made sure to do zero advertising because they don't want people to be trying out the game right now
- Small dedicated player base desperate for such a game keeps the game afloat, client sales ect huge revenue incoming so they keep developing the game
- Just over two years later AV are preparing the final expansion before they launch the game for real, this final expansion will bring Darkfall upto a standard which modern day MMO gamers expect with AAA games
- With this expansion there will also be a relaunch and mass advertising
AV are not stupid, they've been playing their cards right for a long time now. They don't really want the masses to be trying the game out now because they know it'll get flamed to death for many of its flaws, hopefully to be fixed with this expansion like they've promised.
You really think so? I don't really frequent the official WoW site so I have no idea if they are advertising other products but... I really think that's wrong. Blizz has been whoring out products like mad, in game pets, rainbow unicorns, race/faction/name changes (thats a big one), plushies ect, and making tons of money. also with their massive player base their subs generate some massive capital.
It's not the 12million x 15$ a month that some people quote of course, seeing as more than half their subs are in asia, and I know China doesn't pay monthly fees, they pay by the hour (not sure about Korea, the other big market over there).
If what you say is true, I find that very interesting. I just havn't come across any of that in WoW.
Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.
Visibility may be part of the problem with Darfkall, but regardless of how much attention the game got, it would still not be able to retain players at any decent rate due to the FFA full-loot PvP nature of the game. Add to that the clunky UI, comparatively sub-par graphics and the grind which most gamers would not be able to withstand and you arrive at an abysmal player retention rate.
There is only so much advertising can do. The rest must be done by actually fixing the problems with the game.
The game has always been marketed as a niche game. Always. So the idea behind the marketing is that they will draw in some people, some will stay. It's an obvious strategy. They do not expect everyone to. I also like how you generalize what people may or may not like. Some people may like the full loot. Some may be able to look past the UI. Some don't mind graphics since the gameplay is good. And the grind isn't any different than WoW. Good try bud, you make no sense.
I am speaking in terms of what is generally considered success in the MMO market (i.e. subscription numbers). You can argue all you want about Darkfall being a niche game, but I guarantee you that AV does care about subs.
I personally can handle the clunky UI and the FFA full-loot PvP aspects of the game. I actually don't mind those things about the game, but lets face it, the majority of MMO players do not. That fact alone will keep Darkfall from ever reaching big subscription numbers.
There is also a big lack of filler content from early to end game and the progression is therefore considered by most people I have talked to to be pretty boring. Too many repetitive tasks are required and too little unique content exists to mask the grind. The fact that it also takes a very long time to progress to a competitive level and you've got a game that fails to KEEP most players. Darkfall will never retain substantial numbers of players until they can make the game fun from beginning to end for their niche. Right now, the game is not even retaining most of the niche audience it is targetting because a huge number of those players find the grind to be boring and lose interest before end-game.
You know, I really don't buy the whole "most people are turned away by full loot."
based off what statistic are you all using to determine "most mmoers don't like full loot" ?
Do most mmoers even know that exist? I think that question probably has more basis then the previous line of thinking. Most mmo-ers, and this is not just including wow-gamers- this includes f2p gamers, and themepark gamers in general think the theme park is the only mmo-mold period.
Just ask your guilds in themeparks games if they know any sandbox mmo's or full loot, and see how many have no idea what you are talking about.
Now if you want to bring up past games with player looting... that really does not have much basis either. All the games I know of wiht player looting (wiht the exception of two or three) all had major, glaring problems in other areas of the game. But a lot of them still got a lot of attention.
Darkfall and mortal online both had a crazy amount of attention prior to their betas/releases where it then plummeted because the games were well... you all know.
But you can also look at games like UO and Runescape( Ya I said it!) UO at its prime was very popular (relative to the market then).
Runescape ,granted not full loot but pretty much, is still one of the most popular mmo's. And what was the biggest controversy of all time in that game? When the wilderness (ffa) was taken away. Also granted that it wasn't ffa everywhere in runescape, I still think that it's a valid point. Because no one in that game was scared of the wilderness, they loved it. And that is a "kid" game in most eyes.
I really don't think it's fair to say that the majoriry of mmo-players don't like ffa full loot, becuase that has no basis. These types of games always get a lot of hype, and a lot of mmo-gamers i would guess don't evem know what they are. If they played one and saw that dieing is really not a big deal, I don't think they would care.
Now, if a properly made full loot game was made, meaning that it was polished, had good mechanics ect, and had big money to back up its advertisement, I think it would do really good. Not wow good, because nohing will do wow good, but at least eve good, if not better.
You are absolutely right, SOME players (like us) are looking for that challenge and are tired of WOW-type MMOs. It is still safe to say that the vast majority are not though...
This is why MMORPGs started as what we would define as 'hardcore' games and have gradually become easier and less aggressive as time has gone on. They have steadily evolved to games where players can rarely attack each other without consent and never risk anything while doing so. While Darkfall may never have released official sub numbers, other games have many times. The subscription numbers on these carebear games are extremely high compared to what we can assume Darkfall has. Subscription numbers speak for themselves... if full loot FFA pvp was really so successful, I think Darkfall and MO would be doing much better than they are.
I have to agree with some here; The UI was of minor "issue" for me. But all the buffings was a bit too,well, clunky (in lack of better word). I foud the way buffs worked in DFO absolutely tiredsome; it was like too little out for myself, but still required to do. It is a bit hard for me to explain, but I really disliked it.
Regarding the UI; I love fiddling with UI's and keybindings, but I have zero problems understanding the average game would find it totally terrible.
A few things that makes DFO a living hell of a grind;
-UI
-AFK macroing
-Macros ingame (forget being good at pvp unless you using keyboard & mouse that supports macros)
-Buffs & buff system
And now I am not even taking into consideration the skill grind NOR the grind you need for tradeskills.
Conclusion; Fun stuff in DFO, but it is definately only a small miche game, and barely that. I would play it still, if it wasnt for all the grind. I guess.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
Point 1,2, and 4 have happened within the first 6 months since Launch I believe, which is where DarkFall made the largest amount of profit (second being around CtS expac). AV have also shown pictures of the new office, etc.
Point 3 however, I'm rather skeptical. Whenever AV really gets something new, they don't wait very long to boast about it with pictures or long post. However, the motion capture studio has only been mentionned a few times ( Less than 5 for sure), and they've never really went into the details nor shown any images, pictures or videos. Same happened when they allegedly brought changes to their Server hardware to improve performance and increase the speed at which they can patch on the game (never happened).
There was a spotlight showing pictures how they was using it, means on development not the ready animations tho.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Point 1 happened about 3-4 months ago.
Point 2 happened a long time back.
Point 3 also, they've added a few specific mob animations (pretty good tbh) but have stated they're using it for the new upcoming player models to have them animated fluently. Which would take a long time and is coming this expansion.
Edit: Having fully understoof the meaning of your first sentence you're trying to imply that they're no longer doing well. They've just paid to move to new servers. Subscribers have been increasing. AV within the last 3-4 months recruited two new staff members. I'm sure they're doing fine. No need to worry.
I'm not sure how you came up with my first sentence implying that they're no longer doing well, because I haven't said anything remotely close. Although I do believe they are not doing well, but my first sentence did not even scratched that subject. It's an obvious fact that DarkFall's made the largest amount of Sales at Launch (like 99.999999999% of the P2P MMORPGs out there) and while the population dwindled down quite a bit in the following months, Conquer The Sea Expac had brought a significant amount of fresh blood (NEW's roster hitting high above 300 members every week). Given those circumstances, it's very likely that, had Aventurine have any debts and such, that they have been able to repay them around those time. You also have to remember that DarkFall isn't all that they are working on, and they've had dealing with the Greece Defense Contractors, and are looking to sell their engine used to build DarkFall, so it's very likely that they've received money outside of DarkFall, thus allowing them to pay the bills within the first year.
This is what I was implying. But AV is still struggling nowadays that's for sure.
As for the server change as Sid mentionned, 3 possibilities:
1. They'll save more money in the long-term with the host in Chicago than they would with the previous one.
2. It's an investment, hoping it may bring back some players who have had ping issues in the past and had to leave Darkfall behind.
3. To improve the overall performance for upcoming changes.
I would vote #1 as being the most likely but wouldn't give my hopes up.
If they were relaunching the game that would be tight but I doubt that they would wipe the current servers. I think that by relaunch they meant that they will start advertising the game for the first time after the next expansion. If the servers were wiped I would be fine with that.
They have put in a hell of a lot of work it seems like . .. I am excited to see the results! So much is talked about and so little shown that people probably are thinking that its vaporware and that the expansion Hellfreeze is over next year sometime.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Here's a suggestion: why not just play the game? Guaranteed skilling up and having fun at the same time. And it isn't even casual!