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New stuff: open world PvP, cc + tanks in PvP, different paths/rewards in questing.

MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

Maybe I haven't been paying much attention to the latest articles and that's why the news has slipped by, but when I encountered several TOR articles, there were some pleasant surprises and interesting new info I read.

 

This is the new info (at least to me) that I read:

 

From Buffed.de:

'There will be zones on pvp servers belonging to a certain faction and others that are contested all the time'

Seems like BW is slowly ramping up the info releases regarding PvP. This sounds intriguing, it feels like there'll be some form of territory control and fights over it, at least on the PvP servers. We'll have to see how this will be implemented, but it was news at least to me

 


  • You built “diminishing return” into pvp to prevent the overuse of cc. how does that work?

Different than other MMOs you don’t just get a debuff but a dedicated bar which shows to what degree one can cc other players. The bar is at 0 at first and the more the other player is ccd the more it fills. Until the point is reached where that player is immune to cc for a certain amount of time. This bar is below the health bar and can be seen by other players. They then have the option to choose who to cc.

This is an awesome feature! It'll prevent people from being CC'ed all the time, a concern in any MMO but it was especially a concern of mine in SWTOR with the far larger amount of available CC skills spread out over the classes when compared with other MMO's.

 

'Tanks have the ability to protect a target with their “Guard” ability intercepting 50%of the damage'

i like it. It's a good replacement for the taunting that works only in PvE against mobs, with the Guard ability it'll give tank specs more utility in team PvP, and it's harder to just ignore them.

 

In a new Erickson-interview:

'Basically if it’s not a Class Quest or a Flashpoint, it’s a World Quest'

This was news to me. Basically this means that when they've been talking about World Quests, in them are also included the World Arcs, Bonus Quests, Heroic Quests and other non-class quests that every player of 1 faction regardless class can do.

 


  • How much of the 200 hours of story is our class story? Does that 200 hours for each class story include our world arcs, heroic quests, and companion quests as well?

We’ve never put numbers on how many hours of story there are. It’s almost impossible to define. Was the combat to get to Darth Malak in Knights of the Old Republic story? Just the talking bits? Regardless, your class content is approximately 60-70% of your quest content in the origin worlds and slowly ramps down to 10% or so. The goal is to establish time, place, setting and individual identity then get you playing with your friends and out in the world.

This one was confusing a bit. But, based also on former statements, I read this as that 'class story' or 'class content' doesn't include the World Quests (world arcs, heroic quests, bonus quests etc), but that it does include everything you need to do to finish the quests, like the traveling and fighting as well, not only the cutscenes and dialogues.

 


  • Will there be any tangible benefits for playing/accumulating Dark side points if I’m a Galactic Republic player, or Light side points if I’m a Sith Empire player?

Absolutely. Content paths, gear paths and some surprises we’re holding back. There are also rewards for the disciplined grey players who can hold to the middle.


  • Exactly how big of an impact do players have on the outcome of a Flashpoint? Are there one or two endings? Possibly more? Depending on our choices will we fight different end bosses?

Depending on the flashpoint there are often two or more endings or wrinkles that terribly complicate those endings. You will absolutely see different bosses on different paths.

This confirms earlier statements I read, but still nice to know: different choices made in the quests will lead to different quest paths, different gear and different bosses you'll encounter. Will be interesting how this'll work out.

 

And something that was already know, but still amazes me because of the scope:

'Each of the Class Stories is a trilogy. Chapter 1 itself is far bigger than the entirety of Knights of the Old Republic. When we said it was akin to KOTOR 3-10 and beyond it wasn’t a facetious claim.'

And from the PC Gamer of May 2011:

'Each class's story arc is huge. They're divided into three stories, each as long as the entirety of the original Knighs of the Old Republic RPG. That makes The Old Republic 24 times as big, for anyone who's not keeping count. And since every class and gender combination has a different voice actor, it features 16 lead performances. The scale is mind-blowing.'

It's amazing when considering that this is only the Class Questlines.

 

So, contested zones on PvP servers, CC immunity and 50% dmg guarding by tanks in PvP, and different quest paths, rewards and bosses in story questing. I liked it image

 

 

edit: also some stuff from the PC Gamer US edition

 

'Cover is NOT a flat percent-damage reduction. If you're behind it when someone shoots at you, it misses completely. If you're shooting, you're going to get hit. Cover degrades as it gets shot, and some abilities are designed specifically to shoot over cover or knock you out of it.'

This sounds great. It means it gives combat from cover and against cover a more tactical edge.

 

'"Solo Conversation" mode, which allows players to enter conversations alone, even when grouped.'

This is one that I don't know what to think about. Does this mean that you get the situation where everyone just opts for 'solo conversation' instead of doing a multiplayer dialogue, just to avoid not winning the group dialogue choices?

I don't know, doesn't sound like a good option to me, unless the others are jerking around too much, but then again, why group with them if they're asses anyway?

 

'The RPG side of TOR reminds me of Dragon Age: Origins... and the game's PvP system feels like an upgraded version of Warhammer Onlines'

If that's how it feels, then it does sound good indeed image

 

'Cover mechanic combined with medic agent is very fun and unique'

Is this what they meant with 'stealth healer', or is 'cover healer' maybe a better description image

 

'Healing and damage absorption is tracked in the match stats to promote and reward tanks and healers'

Hmm, this reminds me of Blizzard's latest move to reward the least present classes more, in that if they're tanks and healers then those will be rewarded extra. BW's approach seems to target rewarding tanks and healers specifically and reward them for a job well done in pvp. Will see how this will work.

Note: nvm, from other posts I get the idea that this is more related to purely the match stats, so that dps isn't the only stat that is being tracked and rewarded.

 

'PvP: Deflected damage, taunted enemies, and other effects will be shown visually'

? How can you taunt other players?? I doubt the aggro system works on players, maybe there's a skill that launches random insults towards a player, like 'you know what I did last week with your momma' image

 

'Mission Terminal- Contains quests that encourage you to do activities that you haven't tried in a while, such as PvP'

Heh, interesting reminder of areas you haven't paid attention to for a while. I can see how this can get annoying if you're not interested in pvp at all and the mission terminal keeps trying to flash pvp missions to you in a 'go on, go ahead, you know you can do it, just try some, here' kind of way.

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

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Comments

  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,321

    This is the reason I keep saying SWTOR is going to occupy me the way an MMORPG should occupy me.  For many months if not years.  Hence why I compare Rift and it's very small but fun game size to what we have coming.  That's why Rift is just a filler.

    But back on subject, I can't even imagine how long it will take me to play on one character let alone 2 of each class, which I plan to do.  I'm so looking forward to this.  I just hope the combat is fluid and fun to make this all the sweeter.  That I won't know until I get to play it. 


  • Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    And from the PC Gamer of May 2011:

    'Each class' story arc is huge. They're divided into three stories, each as long as the entirety of the original Knighs of the Old Republic RPG. That makes The Old Republic 24 times as big, for anyone who's not keeping count. And since every class and gender combination has a different voice actor, it features 16 lead performances. The scale is mind-blowing.'

    just want to clarify, so people don't accidently buy the wrong magazine, its the uk pc gamer may 2011 issue that has an article about tor.  although i have to say, i didn't particulary care for it.

    edit: i would just like to say, i enjoy the dev's sense of humor, especially damion schuberts.  and new exemple:

    DamionSchubert General Discussion -> Which faction will the developers favor, if any?


    Having worked in the industry for many years, I can tell you the answer is "whichever one you're not playing -- whatever that is."

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,232

    Originally posted by gaou

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick



    And from the PC Gamer of May 2011:

    'Each class' story arc is huge. They're divided into three stories, each as long as the entirety of the original Knighs of the Old Republic RPG. That makes The Old Republic 24 times as big, for anyone who's not keeping count. And since every class and gender combination has a different voice actor, it features 16 lead performances. The scale is mind-blowing.'

    just want to clarify, so people don't accidently buy the wrong magazine, its the uk pc gamer may 2011 issue that has an article about tor.  although i have to say, i didn't particulary care for it.

    edit: i would just like to say, i enjoy the dev's sense of humor, especially damion schuberts.  and new exemple:

    DamionSchubert General Discussion -> Which faction will the developers favor, if any?


    Having worked in the industry for many years, I can tell you the answer is "whichever one you're not playing -- whatever that is."

    Pretty awesome, those guys are.



  • SetsunSetsun Member UncommonPosts: 286

    Bioware wont let us down! The more i read the more i like it.

  • AzariaAzaria Member Posts: 318
    The CC ability isn't earth shattering to me. In my mind a good player wont need that many CCs in the first place. Speculating about the 50% tanking ability. Unless they make competitive arena. Much use for it? Also in Battlegrounds, might that not make Tanks being chain healed, rather infuriating?

    I worry if they concentrate to much on the pvp mini game it could ruin things. You know how well balancing issues for pvp effect PVE. Seems like bioware is trying to make 2 different mechanics for both pvp and pve rather than try and balance one to the other. I hope that is true as well.
  • Cik_AsalinCik_Asalin Member Posts: 3,033

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    From Buffed.de:

    'There will be zones on pvp servers belonging to a certain faction and others that are contested all the time'

    Seems like BW is slowly ramping up the info releases regarding PvP. This sounds intriguing, it feels like there'll be some form of territory control and fights over it, at least on the PvP servers. We'll have to see how this will be implemented, but it was news at least to me


    • You built “diminishing return” into pvp to prevent the overuse of cc. how does that work?

    Different than other MMOs you don’t just get a debuff but a dedicated bar which shows to what degree one can cc other players. The bar is at 0 at first and the more the other player is ccd the more it fills. Until the point is reached where that player is immune to cc for a certain amount of time. This bar is below the health bar and can be seen by other players. They then have the option to choose who to cc.

    This is an awesome feature! It'll prevent people from being CC'ed all the time, a concern in any MMO but it was especially a concern of mine in SWTOR with the far larger amount of available CC skills spread out over the classes when compared with other MMO's.

     

    These elements are part of several, those these 2 stand out as positive for me.  And from most recent experience with Rift, where it failed to keep my attention.  After Trion extended consideration for RvR and/or Contested Land game-play during beta, claiming to have "plans" if players show interest, only to see thousands of more favorable posts in-favor of some form by players, following posts overall accumulating hundreds of pages, nothing from Trion.

     

    So, in short, aside from my general interest in TOR, it's nice to read their proactiveness on seemingly open territorial game-play.  Lets hope they dont ruin it by the feature offering absolutely no realizable game-play value, purpose or meaning.

     

    And, the CC is finally getting implemented a step in the right direction the way it should in mmo's; another place where Trion failed deliver on properly imho.

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Looks like the box will contain a 10 terrabite hd rather than dvd's, and going for digital dl should set you back a few days at launch ^_^

    The amount of content this game is sporting is staggering. It's a data behemoth.

  • XerithXerith Member Posts: 970

    I am hoping that they go the LOTRO rout and allow people who pre-order to download the game a few days before it launches, patch up and be ready to log in the moment they flip the server switch. I will most likely be getting a boxed copy just to have it, and because I am planning on getting a CE as long as it contains some nice items, but for those who are planning a digital download it would be nice for them to be able to play the moment the game launches as well, although we will be stuck in queues anyways. 

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,060

    What do you mean by CC? Sorry, but I'm a bit behind on internet speak.. ;)

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • cc = crowd control.  although have seen alot of people(even some devs) using cc for companion characters lately. XD

  • XerithXerith Member Posts: 970

    Originally posted by ktanner3

    What do you mean by CC? Sorry, but I'm a bit behind on internet speak.. ;)

    Crowd Control = snares, roots, stuns, slows, fears. Basically anything that hampers movement or causes you to be unable to control your character. 

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,232

    Kind of tricky with SWTOR because you'll see DE and the like use CC as "companion characters" too.

     

    But mostly CC would stand for crowd control, yes :) 



  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,060

    Ah. Those annoying, pesky things that when overpowered can have you killed before you can even fire a shot. Yeah, I'm glad that some type of limit is being put on this. I also like seeing tanks being put to better use in PVP since I'll be rolling one. 

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • slprslpr Member Posts: 340

    Hey maverick, this just came up in the official forums. It's the hands-on resume of the PC GAMER US :

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=303168

    Seems that unlike the UK magazine journalist, this guy loved the game.

    image

  • oh cool. didnt think us magazine would have an article too.

  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472

    Originally posted by slpr

    Hey maverick, this just came up in the official forums. It's the hands-on resume of the PC GAMER US :

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=303168

    Seems that unlike the UK magazine journalist, this guy loved the game.

    Thanks for posting that.  Some very interesting stuff in there, especially how the cover system works, hiding they miss, shooting they hit, but they have ways of knocking you otu of cover/hitting over cover.  That means combat will be at the very least sometwhat tatical and you'll have to pay attention to what the enemy is doing.

    Most likely this is friday's update, So lots of goodies i get to put in the feature list this weekend.  Unless of course this is in additoin to which would be even better, we will see.  still theres enough there to chew over.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Most of these features seem to be right from Dark Age of Camelot. In fact, they are. If there are any redeemable qualities to this game I think we can thank Mythic.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    The PC Gamer US has some other interesting stuff to report:

     

    'Cover is NOT a flat percent-damage reduction. If you're behind it when someone shoots at you, it misses completely. If you're shooting, you're going to get hit. Cover degrades as it gets shot, and some abilities are designed specifically to shoot over cover or knock you out of it.'

    This sounds great. It means it gives combat from cover and against cover a more tactical edge.

     

    '"Solo Conversation" mode, which allows players to enter conversations alone, even when grouped.'

    This is one that I don't know what to think about. Does this mean that you get the situation where everyone just opts for 'solo conversation' instead of doing a multiplayer dialogue, just to avoid not winning the group dialogue choices?

    I don't know, doesn't sound like a good option to me, unless the others are jerking around too much, but then again, why group with them if they're asses anyway?

     

    'The RPG side of TOR reminds me of Dragon Age: Origins... and the game's PvP system feels like an upgraded version of Warhammer Onlines'

    If that's how it feels, then it does sound good indeed image

     

    'Cover mechanic combined with medic agent is very fun and unique'

    Is this what they meant with 'stealth healer', or is 'cover healer' maybe a better description image

     

    'Healing and damage absorption is tracked in the match stats to promote and reward tanks and healers'

    Hmm, this reminds me of Blizzard's latest move to reward the least present classes more, in that if they're tanks and healers then those will be rewarded extra. BW's approach seems to target rewarding tanks and healers specifically and reward them for a job well done in pvp. Will see how this will work.

     

    'PvP: Deflected damage, taunted enemies, and other effects will be shown visually'

    ? How can you taunt other players?? I doubt the aggro system works on players, maybe there's a skill that launches random insults towards a player, like 'you know what I did last week with your momma' image

     

    'Mission Terminal- Contains quests that encourage you to do activities that you haven't tried in a while, such as PvP'

    Heh, interesting reminder of areas you haven't paid attention to for a while. I can see how this can get annoying if you're not interested in pvp at all and the mission terminal keeps trying to flash pvp missions to you in a 'go on, go ahead, you know you can do it, just try some, here' kind of way.

     

    A lot of PvP updates in that last batch of info, with the Warhammer Renown-like Valor system and a badge system similar to Halo: Reach rewards for streaks of success.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • inBOILinBOIL Member Posts: 669

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    And from the PC Gamer of May 2011:

    'Each class's story arc is huge. They're divided into three stories, each as long as the entirety of the original Knighs of the Old Republic RPG. That makes The Old Republic 24 times as big, for anyone who's not keeping count. And since every class and gender combination has a different voice actor, it features 16 lead performances. The scale is mind-blowing.'

    thats what single player games are for,but with monthly fees ?

    Generation P

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by inBOIL

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick



    And from the PC Gamer of May 2011:

    'Each class's story arc is huge. They're divided into three stories, each as long as the entirety of the original Knighs of the Old Republic RPG. That makes The Old Republic 24 times as big, for anyone who's not keeping count. And since every class and gender combination has a different voice actor, it features 16 lead performances. The scale is mind-blowing.'

    thats what single player games are for,but with monthly fees ?

    That's what all the rest is for: PvP content, raids, dungeons, group content, massive worlds to explore that you won't often see in singleplayer games. In fact, SWTOR will have all the features that every other P2P MMO will have, so I'd say if people should wonder about the monthly fee, then they should wonder about it for all the P2P MMO's.

     

    SWTOR does have a great angle to draw in gamers from outside the MMO scene: if the questing can be better than the standard in MMO's and is of the same level and feel of other Bioware games, and if it offers enough class quest content to be a KOTOR 3 to 26, then it'll be very tempting for a number of non-MMO gamers to give SWTOR a try.

    Even if they'd only focus on playing purely the class story of 3 classes of the 8 around, there'd be enough content to keep them entertained for 3 to 6 months.

    And just as happened with WoW, a number of those people will like to stick around for the other content especially if that's fun as well.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • SwaneaSwanea Member UncommonPosts: 2,399

    I assume the tank taunting and such is similar to Warhammer.  The tank taunts and reduces the damage a target does unless they hit the tank.  In Warhammer it was like 3 hits to "remove" the taunt.  They also had a frontal cone taunt that taunted everyone.  It also allowed the tank to increase their damage against that target.

    I played a tank in WAR, and I loved that sort of support.  I think that is a great thing to add for tanks in PvP.

  • EvileEvile Member Posts: 534

    Can a tank take 50% dmg off another tank? I can smell some dual tank teaming if so.

    image

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Swanea

    I assume the tank taunting and such is similar to Warhammer.  The tank taunts and reduces the damage a target does unless they hit the tank.  In Warhammer it was like 3 hits to "remove" the taunt.  They also had a frontal cone taunt that taunted everyone.  It also allowed the tank to increase their damage against that target.

    I played a tank in WAR, and I loved that sort of support.  I think that is a great thing to add for tanks in PvP.

    That's indeed a great idea, wow, it seems like they're implementing some mechanics stuff from DAoC/WAR then, with the tank taunting, tank guarding and the CC immunity.

     

    I like how this list is slowly developing: tank taunting in pvp, tank guarding, accumulative CC resistance, tactical cover system (100% protection when you're in cover, vulnerable when you shoot from cover, degrading cover and skills to knock someone from cover) and cover healers. Nice stuff image

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • AvatarBladeAvatarBlade Member UncommonPosts: 757

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    'PvP: Deflected damage, taunted enemies, and other effects will be shown visually'

    ? How can you taunt other players?? I doubt the aggro system works on players, maybe there's a skill that launches random insults towards a player, like 'you know what I did last week with your momma' image

     

    Maybe make it work like if you taunt a player in pvp, he can still use all his skills, just be unable to change target for a time from you.

  • fixiffixif Member UncommonPosts: 180

    isnt that "covering" system the exact same thing WoW has but with "line of sight"? You are hidden = no dmg, you expose yourself and you will probably get hit.

    image

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