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It's tax return time once again and I think It's time to upgrade.

cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258

Right now my setup is an E8400 stock, ATI 6850 1gb, 4 gigs of ram, Win7 x64. I just upgraded my graphics card from a 4850 since the fan died on me I just got a new card instead of replacing the fan.   When I first built this rig I was expecting to go quad core eventually but really never had the cash last year.  The price of C2Quads never dropped like I hoped when then new architecture came out.   This is the processor I'd get if I stick with the rest of my stuff. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115041                

 I figured maybe since I'm getting a nice return and I've got a steady job I could just wait till the new AMD processors come out and just upgrade the mobo, and ram as well.  I would also be using the computer for music production  so the more ram and processing power the better.  

 

Question is when exactly are these new processors coming out? 

If its like still a  year a way, I don't want to wait that long so I'd just get a Quad or a 6 core Phenom II  and find an board hat can be made to support AM3+ with a bios update.

Well anyways thanks for your time,  any suggestions or build ideas are welcome. I'm looking to spend 600ish and only on a new processor, mobo and ram. 

Comments

  • CRAZYCAN00KCRAZYCAN00K Member UncommonPosts: 47

    AMD Phenom II x6 1100T

    ASUS M4A89TD PRO/USB3 AMD 890FX

    G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600 Model # F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

     

    This is what I'm using and it's in around your price range. All are compatable and the cpu can be easily overclocked to 4.00 ghz.

    image

  • cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258

    Originally posted by eastlink

    AMD Phenom II x6 1100T

    ASUS M4A89TD PRO/USB3 AMD 890FX

    G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600 Model # F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

     

    This is what I'm using and it's in around your price range. All are compatable and the cpu can be easily overclocked to 4.00 ghz.

    Yeah that was kinda of my original plan, do you know if that board will be able to support a Bulldozer proccy with a bios update? 

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,113

    Large dies are intrinsically expensive to build.  I'm not sure how the multi-chip module approach of a Core 2 Quad affects the costs of building them, but it surely still costs Intel a substantial amount of money to build.  If you want a mid-range processor, they'd rather sell you something more modern like a Core i3 2100, which will perform better for many purposes, while costing considerably less to build.

    If you want a new gaming system right now, the thing to get is a Core i5 2500 or 2500K from Intel.  That's their new Sandy Bridge architecture, and it performs very well.

    As for when AMD's new processors will be out, that depends on which new processors you're talking about.  AMD has three new architectures coming in the first half of this year.  Bobcat is already out.  For example:

    Mini ITX desktop version:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813154020

    That's the motherboard, processor, and graphics all together.

    Nettop in a tiny case:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173023

    Cheap laptop:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834215057

    I actually have that laptop, though I upgraded it with more memory and an SSD.  It offers 2 hours, 37 minutes of battery life under a Prime95 stress test, with monitor brightness at max and power saving stuff like sleep mode disabled.  Meaning, it barely uses any power, even under a stress test.  Thus, you can actually set it on your lap, under even very heavy loads, without it getting uncomfortably hot.  And it can run Guild Wars smoothly at max settings.  Pretty nifty.

    But I don't think that's what you're after, as that's a cheap, low performance chip that would probably be a downgrade from what you already have.

    The next new AMD architecture is Llano, which will roughly be a Phenom II X4 and Radeon HD 5570 together in a single APU die on a 32 nm HKMG SOI process node.  Llano will offer integrated graphics that are good enough for gaming.  It will offer the first budget gaming laptops, as well as the first gaming laptops that don't have a serious problem with heat dissipation.  It will also bring down the cost of an entry level gaming desktop considerably, because there is no need for a video card.  There will be a spot for a video card on the motherboard, of course, so someone who buys a Llano system this year can add a real video card a few years down the road for a performance boost that way.

    AMD announced that they had started shipping Llano for revenue around the start of April.  That is, stores can buy them, but can't sell them yet.  This is done so that when AMD ends the NDA and says you can start selling the processors, stores can have a ton of them in stock, so that people who want to buy one can buy them right then, without having to wait a month for them to be delivered from Singapore.  AMD hasn't officially announced a launch date on Llano, but expect early May, so perhaps 2-3 weeks from now.

    But that likely isn't what you're interested in, either.  On a $500-$600 budget (excluding peripherals), you should definitely get a Llano system.  On a $1000 budget, you should get something a lot better.

    The final new architecture from AMD launching this year is Bulldozer.

    Bulldozer is the real competitor to Sandy Bridge.  It will offer 4, 6, or 8 processor cores.  It will also have chipsets ranging from fairly low end to really high end, including almost surely the best chipset on the market.  My guess is that the eight core variant will be expensive, as it's really meant for servers, so if you want it, you'll have to pay server CPU prices for it.  It's going to be the same Orochi die used for both the Zambezi desktop version and the Interlagos server version, so AMD will presumably bin out a lot of the best dies for the server version, but all of the salvage parts go to the desktop side.  If you're looking at a Phenom II X6 now, then a Bulldozer quad core will probably be cheaper, and also better for gaming.  My guess is that a Bulldozer six core processor will be more expensive than a Phenom II X6, but it might not be.

    For gaming processor performance, my guess is that Bulldozer won't be as good as Sandy Bridge, but it will be pretty close--and a lot better than a Phenom II X6.  I could easily be wrong about that.  Actually, I'm not wrong about Bulldozer being better than Thuban unless AMD is lying about performance.  Bulldozer will probably be cheaper than Sandy Bridge for a quad core, it will offer up to eight cores if you need more than four, and it will come with better chipsets.  The better chipsets will matter a lot if you want CrossFire, and probably SLI, which rumors say Nvidia will finally allow on AMD chipsets.  The chipset advantage won't matter for a single GPU card.  Sandy Bridge offers the advantage that you can buy it today, without having to wait.

     The desktop version, Zambezi, is going to launch in the second quarter of this year.  That is, sometime between April and June.  AMD has promised this many times, and whenever someone starts a rumor saying that Bulldozer is delayed, AMD comes out and says, no, it's still going to launch in Q2 2011.  Rumors say it will launch in mid-June.  The server version is due out in Q3 2011, due to the greater validation requirements for servers.

    Llano will use a new socket, and will not be compatible with older processor sockets.  Zambezi will use socket AM3+, and the processors will physically fit in socket AM3 motherboards, but AMD won't officially support making them work.  Some motherboard manufacturers have said that they will offer BIOS updates to allow Zambezi to work in some AM3 motherboards.  Asus has said a BIOS update is available for a few of their high end socket AM3 motherboards.  MSI has said the same thing, and added that they're working on BIOS updates to allow Zambezi in a lot of their lower end motherboards.  Gigabyte has said that they're releasing new socket AM3 motherboards that will accept Zambezi, and those motherboards are readily identified by the processor socket being colored black.  AsRock has said that they're going to release socket AM3+ motherboards with AMD 800 series chipsets (which are already on the market today), so that it will take current socket AM3 processors, and also be a socket AM3+ motherboard that works just fine with socket AM3+ processors.

    However, even if Zambezi can be made to work in a socket AM3 motherboard, it might be with reduced functionality, if the 800 series chipset doesn't support all of the features of Bulldozer.  I don't think it makes sense to buy a new AM3 motherboard today with the plan to upgrade to Bulldozer.  If Bulldozer is what you want, then wait for it.

    Basically, if you want more than four processor cores, or if you want to run CrossFire or SLI, then I'd wait for Bulldozer.  If not, then on a $1000+ budget, I'd just get a Sandy Bridge system now and call it good enough.

  • CRAZYCAN00KCRAZYCAN00K Member UncommonPosts: 47

    I'm realy not sure , everything i read about the new cpu's havn't mentioned much about wich socket type they will support . sorry i can't be more help.

    image

  • CatamountCatamount Member Posts: 773

    As I recall, it was AMD's original intention to support forward-compatibility for the AM3 sockets to run the new CPUs (which, as Quiz says, do certainly fit).

    I didn't realize that the motherboard companies themselves were trying to provide that support in lieu of AMD doing it since AMD obviously has no interest in providing support for that.

     

    Hopefully, my Asus Crosshair III will get a bios update, but I'm not counting on it. It may be a top of the line Asus motherboard, but it's also an older 790FX board.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,113

    Apparently AMD's original intention was to support Socket AM3+ processors in Socket AM3 motherboards.  They are supporting Interlagos in Socket G34 (server) motherboards, so it's not an intrinsic incompability between Bulldozer cores and Stars cores.  But AMD just couldn't do it, and make it reliable enough.

    AMD has an interest in backward compatibility, as if you already have an AMD system, you're more likely to stick with AMD if the choice is between buying just a processor from AMD, or having to buy a processor, motherboard, and perhaps memory to switch to Intel.  AMD doesn't make any money off you having to buy new memory, and doesn't make that much off of you having to buy a new motherboard.

    That's why AMD made Socket AM3 backward compatible to Socket AM2+, and Socket AM2+ backward compatible to Socket AM2.  You can also put a Socket AM3 processor in a Socket AM3+ motherboard and it will work, if given a suitable BIOS update.  Making Socket AM3 work in Socket AM2+ actually cost AMD money to implement, as AM2+ is for DDR2 memory, while AM3 is for DDR3, so they had to give Deneb both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers, which adds to die size.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,113

    Here is Asus' take on Bulldozer in Socket AM3:

    http://event.asus.com/2011/mb/AM3_PLUS_Ready/

    That used to only list three motherboards, so they might add more to the list later.

    Here's MSI's take:

    http://event.msi.com/mb/am3+/

  • cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258

    Thanks for all the Info.   I saw this Micro Center ad today and there were some sweet deals for a Sandy Bridge 2500k and Mobo combo better than the combo deal at Newegg..  So if its still going on when I get my return I might as well take advantage of it.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.635133  The MC price is 320, but with tax involved hopefully it will still be cheaper.

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 22,113

    The difference between a Core i5 2500 and a Core i5 2500K is that the 2500K will let you overclock it.  The 2500 caps overclocking at 3.7 GHz, while the 2500K will let you try to push it as high as 5.7 GHz and see if it works.

    The 2500K also has relatively better integrated graphics, but that's only in the sense that the 2500K integrated graphics are awful, and the 2500 integrated graphics only perform half as well as awful.  The next respectable graphics product that Intel releases will be their first.

    Also, note that the stock cooler included with Sandy Bridge processors is awful, so you may wish to buy a relatively cheap aftermarket cooler even at stock speeds, or a beefier cooler if you're looking for a big overclock.

  • cukimungacukimunga Member UncommonPosts: 2,258

    Originally posted by Quizzical

    The difference between a Core i5 2500 and a Core i5 2500K is that the 2500K will let you overclock it.  The 2500 caps overclocking at 3.7 GHz, while the 2500K will let you try to push it as high as 5.7 GHz and see if it works.

    The 2500K also has relatively better integrated graphics, but that's only in the sense that the 2500K integrated graphics are awful, and the 2500 integrated graphics only perform half as well as awful.  The next respectable graphics product that Intel releases will be their first.

    Also, note that the stock cooler included with Sandy Bridge processors is awful, so you may wish to buy a relatively cheap aftermarket cooler even at stock speeds, or a beefier cooler if you're looking for a big overclock.

    Yes the Micro Center ad said it was a Core I5 2500k. I do have an aftermarket cooler right now but I dont' think it will work for the 1155 socket. If not I'll get one soon enough. 

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