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Know Your Role

WolfClawsWolfClaws Member UncommonPosts: 638

With the news of the character development system found here http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/news/page/1/read/20256/Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic-Pick-a-Role-Any-Role.html I have seen a lot of people raising up in arms about it.

People mentioning about the holy trinity (tank, dps, heal) not being an option anymore, confusion, rogues shouldn't be tanking, or healing or whatever, and tanks should not be DPS...

I will say this... pay attention... The Roles Are Still Here.  Yep.. I said it.  People will need to realize that just because you are a "mage" this does not mean you are DPS and Utility.  You could be the tank.  So instead of stating "Looking for Fighter" for a tank, you say "Looking for a tank" and move along.

Will there be broken builds? Oh yes.  Is there a better chance that you will be more than ineffective?  Yep. 

On the flip side, will there be a greater chance of customization?  Hehe of course.  And that is what MMOs are transforming into.  You need to think on how you want to become to fullfill whatever role you wish to do.

 

I think it is great.  And if you do not, that is ok, play your warrior as a tank.  I will be playing mine differently.

 

And people mention RIFT.  Yeah, it is a definate trend setter.  And it is a double edge sword.  I like the way things are going.  It is probably the next best thing to a skill based system so you can have your character do whatever you want depending on the path you set him on.

 

Kudos Bioware.

Comments

  • DarkPonyDarkPony Member Posts: 5,566

    Hehe, I can already see the "LF Tank, NO SITH ASSASSINS!!" or the "LF DPS (No Troopers!)" spam, to give some examples. It's true that classes will probably still have very distinct specialities. But I hope encounters will be diverse enough, and PVP balanced enough that every possible sub-build will have moments where they can shine.

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431

    The smaller group size of 4 will make it more important to "know your role". But, at the same time, a streight specialized role may not work as well with a group of 4 because it would be more difficult to adapt.

     

    It all comes down to the content created by the devs. If the content is just tank and spank, then the trinity will feel tired and old. But if you have to do more than just one role at time or you fail the encounter. Then it will feel different even with the same roles. As in the Toral V flashpoint. The end encounter was not a streight tank and spank, and required the group to try and kill both bosses at the same time or fail the encounter. At the same time, a lot of the encounter (even though it was dumbed down) was simple tank, dps and heal.

     

    So more than the use of the trinity is the content creativity. As well as what alternate skills will be available to get away from the hate, damage absorption, dps and healing. The multiple options for most classes is a good start. So a hybrid can be a very viable build with the small group size. Also hybrids are usually a good thing in PvP. And not knowing exactly what to expect from your apponent in PvP just by what class they are is also a plus.

     

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063

    And here I  thought that players were tired of the holy trinity. I wish they would make up their minds already. /rolleyes

    Personally I love the way Bioware is doing it. Now if I choose to go Sith Inquisitor I can be a ranged DPS,Healer,Close DPS or Tank. You're still special as a Sith Inquisitor because no other class can use the saberstaff or throw lightning like you do. No other class can use force choke except the Sith Warrior even thought he can Tank or DPS. 

    Really I think this is just players that get their thrills off on raiding who are making a big stink about this. They think that all classes should be pigeonholed into specific roles with no room for change.These are the type of people I usually avoid because they love to tell everyone else how to play the game. They don't realize that not everyone enjoys raiding and most of us have a life outside of games. 

     

    PS: Raiders angry that Bioware is doing something different from WOW. And here I thought this was going to be nothing more than a WOW Clone. /sarcasm off.

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • WolfClawsWolfClaws Member UncommonPosts: 638

    Well, if Bioware goes "Hey, look at rift and Champions Online ability to change specs on the fly, why dont we do that" will help for those 4 player groups to say "I got the tanking!" ,, other guys goes I have DPS and then another goes Healing, the last guy can go "Hmmm well I can just DPS or Tank or whatever, let's go".

     

    I like that.  So sometimes you might be forced to do something you dont like.. but hey, it wont be full time and might make things more enjoyable over time cause you arent doing the same thing all the time.

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by WolfClaws

    Well, if Bioware goes "Hey, look at rift and Champions Online ability to change specs on the fly, why dont we do that" will help for those 4 player groups to say "I got the tanking!" ,, other guys goes I have DPS and then another goes Healing, the last guy can go "Hmmm well I can just DPS or Tank or whatever, let's go".

     

    I like that.  So sometimes you might be forced to do something you dont like.. but hey, it wont be full time and might make things more enjoyable over time cause you arent doing the same thing all the time.

         Sorry to disagree, but I really hope BioWare does not go that route.  What Rift and CO did was make THE most unrealistic experience and completely ruin the idea that I have to actually make a character.  I understand the freedom of choice argument, but BioWares stated goal of immersion would most likely be comepletely ruined by this.  I mean serously, I can see this happeneing right now "Oh, you don't need me to be a heal?  OK, let me change over to my DPS build then."  There goes my immersion.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 Member UncommonPosts: 1,431

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by WolfClaws

    Well, if Bioware goes "Hey, look at rift and Champions Online ability to change specs on the fly, why dont we do that" will help for those 4 player groups to say "I got the tanking!" ,, other guys goes I have DPS and then another goes Healing, the last guy can go "Hmmm well I can just DPS or Tank or whatever, let's go".

     

    I like that.  So sometimes you might be forced to do something you dont like.. but hey, it wont be full time and might make things more enjoyable over time cause you arent doing the same thing all the time.

         Sorry to disagree, but I really hope BioWare does not go that route.  What Rift and CO did was make THE most unrealistic experience and completely ruin the idea that I have to actually make a character.  I understand the freedom of choice argument, but BioWares stated goal of immersion would most likely be comepletely ruined by this.  I mean serously, I can see this happeneing right now "Oh, you don't need me to be a heal?  OK, let me change over to my DPS build then."  There goes my immersion.

     As of right now, you can only change your Advanced Class tree spec for a price. You can not go back and change your AC choice. So you could never go from a DPS to a Healer or Healer to Tank or DPS to Healer or any combo really on the fly. You can make adjustments by buying a re-spec from a trainer. But it will take time and again, it will not be a big change because you can't change your AC.

     

    The main choice for each class will be at level 10. So you should know what you want to do before you make that choice. Because you would have to start over if you make the wrong choice. Choice will be permanent and immersion will be some what safe.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • WolfClawsWolfClaws Member UncommonPosts: 638

    Well, it will be interesting to see which path they take.  

  • drake_hounddrake_hound Member Posts: 773

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by WolfClaws

    Well, if Bioware goes "Hey, look at rift and Champions Online ability to change specs on the fly, why dont we do that" will help for those 4 player groups to say "I got the tanking!" ,, other guys goes I have DPS and then another goes Healing, the last guy can go "Hmmm well I can just DPS or Tank or whatever, let's go".

     

    I like that.  So sometimes you might be forced to do something you dont like.. but hey, it wont be full time and might make things more enjoyable over time cause you arent doing the same thing all the time.

         Sorry to disagree, but I really hope BioWare does not go that route.  What Rift and CO did was make THE most unrealistic experience and completely ruin the idea that I have to actually make a character.  I understand the freedom of choice argument, but BioWares stated goal of immersion would most likely be comepletely ruined by this.  I mean serously, I can see this happeneing right now "Oh, you don't need me to be a heal?  OK, let me change over to my DPS build then."  There goes my immersion.

    G how much i understand your disagreement , sadly this is not that old time anymore .

    Example when playing wow , I sign up as dpser  , I have terrific tank gear but i just want to dps .

    Now problems arise first couple wipes , healer is good , but tank is lousy ,tank  blaims the healer .

    We move on tank goes nerd rage quit 2nd wipe , no problem still don´t want to tank .

    We get another noob tank , healer get depressed she is trying everything she can .

    End deal tank blaims again healer , fed up I equip my tanking gear and finish the dungeon .

    Honestly some people just have fun nowadays depressing people for there own failures .

    That this system of cross tank healing and dpsing , is what saves random pugs a lot .

    That is the reason why it is heavily implemented nowadays .

  • WolfClawsWolfClaws Member UncommonPosts: 638

    The blame game will never go away though... unfortunately. 

    Learning from your mistakes and trying new things is what teams do.  Blaming is for PUGs...

  • SasamiSasami Member Posts: 326

    Tbh I was hoping Bioware would go bold and allow any class to fill any role. Also allowing players to change that in anytime would be good. I know there is problem of people rolling not there current gear and all that crap, which could be easily solved by giving classless tokens or craft mats as drops. I don't want trinity to go because there is some very good aspects in it and it gives designers more flexibility. Most of players today don't have that much time to play anymore, so having less walls in playing experience is getting crucial.

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by Sasami

    Tbh I was hoping Bioware would go bold and allow any class to fill any role. Also allowing players to change that in anytime would be good. I know there is problem of people rolling not there current gear and all that crap, which could be easily solved by giving classless tokens or craft mats as drops. I don't want trinity to go because there is some very good aspects in it and it gives designers more flexibility. Most of players today don't have that much time to play anymore, so having less walls in playing experience is getting crucial.

         I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I think SWTOR is pretty much allowing you to go ALMOST any role with any character.  They just make you specialize more with a single particular character.  Personally I have no problem with that.  I tried RIFT, with there multi-aspect characters and to be honest, it was crap.  Unless you highly specialize in ONE particular aspect, you ended up being underpowered compared to the mobs in your level range pretty quick. 

        As for making it easy to change your roles easily, I don't particularly like that either.  People get specialized training for a reason and when they do they loose out on other aspects.  That is realistic and for me at least, more immersive since it is more normal.  Now hey, maybe in the Star Wars Universe, you can get highly indepth and specialised training in ten different feilds of study and be just as good as someone that only picks one or two, but for the most part you can't do that in our universe and it just feels wrong when games try to go that route to me.  I think that may have been part of what turned me off Champions Online and considering what is happening with that game, I don't think  am the only one that feels that way.

        Sorry for the rambling all.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • GMan3GMan3 Member CommonPosts: 2,127

    Originally posted by drake_hound

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by WolfClaws

    Well, if Bioware goes "Hey, look at rift and Champions Online ability to change specs on the fly, why dont we do that" will help for those 4 player groups to say "I got the tanking!" ,, other guys goes I have DPS and then another goes Healing, the last guy can go "Hmmm well I can just DPS or Tank or whatever, let's go".

     

    I like that.  So sometimes you might be forced to do something you dont like.. but hey, it wont be full time and might make things more enjoyable over time cause you arent doing the same thing all the time.

         Sorry to disagree, but I really hope BioWare does not go that route.  What Rift and CO did was make THE most unrealistic experience and completely ruin the idea that I have to actually make a character.  I understand the freedom of choice argument, but BioWares stated goal of immersion would most likely be comepletely ruined by this.  I mean serously, I can see this happeneing right now "Oh, you don't need me to be a heal?  OK, let me change over to my DPS build then."  There goes my immersion.

    G how much i understand your disagreement , sadly this is not that old time anymore .

    Example when playing wow , I sign up as dpser  , I have terrific tank gear but i just want to dps .

    Now problems arise first couple wipes , healer is good , but tank is lousy ,tank  blaims the healer .

    We move on tank goes nerd rage quit 2nd wipe , no problem still don´t want to tank .

    We get another noob tank , healer get depressed she is trying everything she can .

    End deal tank blaims again healer , fed up I equip my tanking gear and finish the dungeon .

    Honestly some people just have fun nowadays depressing people for there own failures .

    That this system of cross tank healing and dpsing , is what saves random pugs a lot .

    That is the reason why it is heavily implemented nowadays .

         I had a similar situation happen to me when I was playing a healer type on City of Heroes a long time back.  We had a VERY badly made tank in the group and no matter how much I buffed and healed him, he was aggroing WAY TO MANY mobs and I couldn't keep up.  I had my character spec'd to the Tops for healing and buffing too.  My solution was simple.  I stopped healing and buffing him all together and when one mob alone smeared him all over the floor, HE rage quit after everyone started to laughed at his lousy build.

        Unfortunately there will always be the "blamers" in a game.  Thankfully though, there seems to be a lot more of the "accepts responsibility" type though.

    "If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  • WolfClawsWolfClaws Member UncommonPosts: 638

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by drake_hound

    Originally posted by GMan3

    Originally posted by WolfClaws

    Well, if Bioware goes "Hey, look at rift and Champions Online ability to change specs on the fly, why dont we do that" will help for those 4 player groups to say "I got the tanking!" ,, other guys goes I have DPS and then another goes Healing, the last guy can go "Hmmm well I can just DPS or Tank or whatever, let's go".

     

    I like that.  So sometimes you might be forced to do something you dont like.. but hey, it wont be full time and might make things more enjoyable over time cause you arent doing the same thing all the time.

         Sorry to disagree, but I really hope BioWare does not go that route.  What Rift and CO did was make THE most unrealistic experience and completely ruin the idea that I have to actually make a character.  I understand the freedom of choice argument, but BioWares stated goal of immersion would most likely be comepletely ruined by this.  I mean serously, I can see this happeneing right now "Oh, you don't need me to be a heal?  OK, let me change over to my DPS build then."  There goes my immersion.

    G how much i understand your disagreement , sadly this is not that old time anymore .

    Example when playing wow , I sign up as dpser  , I have terrific tank gear but i just want to dps .

    Now problems arise first couple wipes , healer is good , but tank is lousy ,tank  blaims the healer .

    We move on tank goes nerd rage quit 2nd wipe , no problem still don´t want to tank .

    We get another noob tank , healer get depressed she is trying everything she can .

    End deal tank blaims again healer , fed up I equip my tanking gear and finish the dungeon .

    Honestly some people just have fun nowadays depressing people for there own failures .

    That this system of cross tank healing and dpsing , is what saves random pugs a lot .

    That is the reason why it is heavily implemented nowadays .

         I had a similar situation happen to me when I was playing a healer type on City of Heroes a long time back.  We had a VERY badly made tank in the group and no matter how much I buffed and healed him, he was aggroing WAY TO MANY mobs and I couldn't keep up.  I had my character spec'd to the Tops for healing and buffing too.  My solution was simple.  I stopped healing and buffing him all together and when one mob alone smeared him all over the floor, HE rage quit after everyone started to laughed at his lousy build.

        Unfortunately there will always be the "blamers" in a game.  Thankfully though, there seems to be a lot more of the "accepts responsibility" type though.

     

    LOL well that cannot be helped.  Sometimes players need to be reminded that their actions actually do impact others and vice versa.  That there was more of player style (and I guess bad tank build since he got creamed from one mob).  But, can't fix stupid.

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