i think the only thing that'll bring down wow is blizzard, and i don't see it happening anytime soon. i also don't see anything in the forseeable future taking down the big, bad MMORPG monster.
No single game is going kill WoW, period. It's clear that no major game company is willing to innovate far enough away from Blizzard’s now industry-standard blueprint to cause millions of gamers to gravitate to their titles. ToR is not going to do it. BW has been making various additions and changes to differentiate the game from the WoW comparisons, but the evidence is already there. The amount of hype and support behind upcoming games like ToR and GW2 is pretty high, but so was the amount of hype behind games like AoC and WAR,
gw2 isn't just "hype", their ideas alone make the wow model more and more obsolete as people come to understand them. AoC and war did not move away from the wow model even a fraction of what guild wars 2 is.
"It's clear that no major game company is willing to innovate far enough away from Blizzard’s now industry-standard blueprint to cause millions of gamers to gravitate to their titles"
gw2 is very much willing. I'd recommend you read more. Start with the information under "The Game" in the guild wars 2 home page.
Or if you're lazy, you can find articles like http://www.tentonhammer.com/gw2/features/editorials/why-you-should-care written by people who started as sceptics of guild wars 2, then did the research for you, and then understood why its important and changed their opinion reluctantly.
stayontarget, its not just "nice and all" its a rebuttle that makes your first statement false. I think you're a troll so I won't bother arguing any more. If you don't understand what's going on in the videos you're watching what's the point?
Not a chance in hell a niche game like shadowbane would put a dent in wow let alone kill it.
It can be however much different it can be but it's no gonna happen.
Anyways, thanks for the laugh.
Making another WoW won't kill the game. It has to be something new, a niche that becomes something more. We see it time and time again with the EQ/WoW clones that are out. Everyone goes back to WoW because they would rather play WoW than a clone.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
gw2 isn't just "hype", their ideas alone make the wow model more and more obsolete as people come to understand them. AoC and war did not move away from the wow model even a fraction of what guild wars 2 is.
"It's clear that no major game company is willing to innovate far enough away from Blizzard’s now industry-standard blueprint to cause millions of gamers to gravitate to their titles"
gw2 is very much willing. I'd recommend you read more. Start with the information under "The Game" in the guild wars 2 home page.
Or if you're lazy, you can find articles like http://www.tentonhammer.com/gw2/features/editorials/why-you-should-care written by people who started as sceptics of guild wars 2, then did the research for you, and then understood why its important and changed their opinion reluctantly.
stayontarget, its not just "nice and all" its a rebuttle that makes your first statement false. I think you're a troll so I won't bother arguing any more. If you don't understand what's going on in the videos you're watching what's the point?
Saw GW2, watch videos (which are quite dissappointing), informed myself about possbile "revolution". All that doesn't come even close to revolution, or "NEW" model. Not even by a long shot. There are some very nice features in there but in the end it will come to who tanks/heals/dps the best and those classes will be chosen to raid/pvp or whatever.
Nothing new. Not one thing. Please check your facts before you call someone a troll.
He didnt start as a sceptic, he was unaware and then became a fanboy over night lol
Joking aside, the art looks great! I like it alot. The features however all reminded me of something else. Revolution? I dont think so. Potetial to be a great game? Sure! Play or not, I hope it does well. More good developers making a buck cant hurt right?
IT is weird. Not that there are people that still play. But that there are people that have played it since it's release. I honestly couldn't stand doing the same thing for 6 years.
(Vanilla) Level > Dungeons > Raid >(TBC) Level > Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > Raid >(WotLK) Level > Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > 10 mans > 25 mans > Heroic 10's > Heroic 25 mans > (Cata) Level > Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > 10 mans > 25 mans > Heroic 10's > Heroic 25 mans
And grinding BG's for gear doesn't sound much more fun either. Maybe on and off. But not for 6 years straight. I just don't see the appeal to play this for that long.
gw2 isn't just "hype", their ideas alone make the wow model more and more obsolete as people come to understand them. AoC and war did not move away from the wow model even a fraction of what guild wars 2 is.
"It's clear that no major game company is willing to innovate far enough away from Blizzard’s now industry-standard blueprint to cause millions of gamers to gravitate to their titles"
gw2 is very much willing. I'd recommend you read more. Start with the information under "The Game" in the guild wars 2 home page.
Or if you're lazy, you can find articles like http://www.tentonhammer.com/gw2/features/editorials/why-you-should-care written by people who started as sceptics of guild wars 2, then did the research for you, and then understood why its important and changed their opinion reluctantly.
stayontarget, its not just "nice and all" its a rebuttle that makes your first statement false. I think you're a troll so I won't bother arguing any more. If you don't understand what's going on in the videos you're watching what's the point?
Saw GW2, watch videos (which are quite dissappointing), informed myself about possbile "revolution". All that doesn't come even close to revolution, or "NEW" model. Not even by a long shot. There are some very nice features in there but in the end it will come to who tanks/heals/dps the best and those classes will be chosen to raid/pvp or whatever.
Nothing new. Not one thing. Please check your facts before you call someone a troll.
Maybe you should check your facts as well? Every class is design to be capable to a certain extend to 'tank' (well its more like CC to control the boss, instead of absorbing damage like a meatloaf), DPS, and Heal/Revive. Each class designs to achieve this in a different way, so all classes will become viable in terms of grouping for raid/pvp.
Just because the skill video looks like a ranger shooting an arrow does not mean classes are functioning the same way.
Then you probably gonna think "everyone is gonna solo since they can do everything". Well no to that as well, Even tho classes are design to achieve multiple roles, it will be quite hard to finish content by playing two roles at once, eg: your energy regen will not keep up if you try to CC and DPS at the same time.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
WoW will be hurt when Blizzard decides to make a sequel. I'm not saying this sequel will outdo WoW as far as the current sub numbers. However, it will cause a rift, and open an opportunity for people to check out other games. If WoW players know the end is near they will then try to find another game. Now, that may very well be its sequel - I'm talking about sequel in spirit not necessarily WoW 2.
Another WoW clone can't compete with WoW. Not many people are going to leave a game to play another game that's not even as good as the one they left. However, once resources are diverted from WoW by Blizzard towards its successor we will see people leave. Right now, there is absolutely no incentive to play one of these half-assed clones. And for those of us looking for a game that isn't a perptual raid grind, well we are F-ed,friends. Rightly and truly f-ed.
Maybe you should check your facts as well? Every class is design to be capable to a certain extend to 'tank' (well its more like CC to control the boss, instead of absorbing damage like a meatloaf), DPS, and Heal/Revive. Each class designs to achieve this in a different way, so all classes will become viable in terms of grouping for raid/pvp.
Just because the skill video looks like a ranger shooting an arrow does not mean classes are functioning the same way.
Then you probably gonna think "everyone is gonna solo since they can do everything". Well no to that as well, Even tho classes are design to achieve multiple roles, it will be quite hard to finish content by playing two roles at once, eg: your energy regen will not keep up if you try to CC and DPS at the same time.
Ye theory is a great thing. Practice is something else. Unless they make the mechanics same/similar with only cosmetic differences (think WoW, where every healer has pretty much the same abilities with another name/twist) its gonna be really hard to balance and some class/spec will be more wanted for raid then others. Balance is hard, MMOs are never really balanced, its a constant work in progress. Not saying it will be a total mess, but you sound like it will be perfect....
gw2 isn't just "hype", their ideas alone make the wow model more and more obsolete as people come to understand them. AoC and war did not move away from the wow model even a fraction of what guild wars 2 is.
"It's clear that no major game company is willing to innovate far enough away from Blizzard’s now industry-standard blueprint to cause millions of gamers to gravitate to their titles"
gw2 is very much willing. I'd recommend you read more. Start with the information under "The Game" in the guild wars 2 home page.
Or if you're lazy, you can find articles like http://www.tentonhammer.com/gw2/features/editorials/why-you-should-care written by people who started as sceptics of guild wars 2, then did the research for you, and then understood why its important and changed their opinion reluctantly.
stayontarget, its not just "nice and all" its a rebuttle that makes your first statement false. I think you're a troll so I won't bother arguing any more. If you don't understand what's going on in the videos you're watching what's the point?
Saw GW2, watch videos (which are quite dissappointing), informed myself about possbile "revolution". All that doesn't come even close to revolution, or "NEW" model. Not even by a long shot. There are some very nice features in there but in the end it will come to who tanks/heals/dps the best and those classes will be chosen to raid/pvp or whatever.
Nothing new. Not one thing. Please check your facts before you call someone a troll.
Maybe you should check your facts as well? Every class is design to be capable to a certain extend to 'tank' (well its more like CC to control the boss, instead of absorbing damage like a meatloaf), DPS, and Heal/Revive. Each class designs to achieve this in a different way, so all classes will become viable in terms of grouping for raid/pvp.
Just because the skill video looks like a ranger shooting an arrow does not mean classes are functioning the same way.
Then you probably gonna think "everyone is gonna solo since they can do everything". Well no to that as well, Even tho classes are design to achieve multiple roles, it will be quite hard to finish content by playing two roles at once, eg: your energy regen will not keep up if you try to CC and DPS at the same time.
Look at the bigger picture and supress you fan side of GW2 for just a minute. Do you really believe it won't come down to who tanks the best, who heals the best and who dps's the best? Maybe roles of tank/heal/dps won't be so emphesized but it will still be same old, same old. As I said, current MMOs and MMOs that will be released in the next year won't have anything new. Nothing new generation. It WILL stay the same. Only MMO that has some potential of starting something new is Secret World. Totally different concept. We can now only wait will Funcom deliver their promises.
All you people who think that gw2 is lying about its holy triad dissapearing, nonynonyno!
For one, who "heals" the best won't matter, because self heals will be much more powerful than allied heals. So all you naysayers are already wrong on one triangle of the triad.
In guild wars 1 aggro was a very fickle thing, enemies would run around attackng whoever they wanted. They didn't just follow some stupid aggro meter equation. So 9 times out of 10, a pure tank was useless, and should have just dpsed to help kill the enemies quicker.Its going to be similar in Guild Wars 2. A meatshield isn't as useful in a game where the enemies are smarter.
I'm sure dps will be important, but its not like a wow raid where your dps is mathematically worked out and that's all that matters. The combat in guild wars 2 is much more chaotic and less structured than that, so that all the tools a profession can bring to the table can be useful, not just their GEAR SCORE and their ONE SIX NINE POINT SEVEN DEEPIESS.
All you people who think that gw2 is lying about its holy triad dissapearing, nonynonyno!
For one, who "heals" the best won't matter, because self heals will be much more powerful than allied heals. So all you naysayers are already wrong on one point. In guild wars 1 aggro was a very fickle thing, enemies would run around attackng whoever they wanted. They didn't just follow some stupid aggro meter equation. So 9 times out of 10, a tank was useless, and should have just dpsed to help kill the enemies quicker. Its going to be similar in Guild Wars 2. A meatshield isn't as useful in a game where the enemies are smarter.
Ingame preview showed that a new character comes ingame walks to a npc with big NEON SIGN above head wtf?, then say the magic words that you already saw in hundreds of other mmo's and give quest thats so brillant you can't believe they have manage to develop in few years time its just awesome. Quest giver say kill 3x VERY DANGEROUS WOLFS omg you gotte be kidding me is this the hyped GW2 yes it is not to mention the combat and how you follow a path and game hold your hand its just pathetic that so many follow this game bah:(
Themeparks will stay the same they will never chance they just become more and more repeat from previous mmo's but simpler:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
All you people who think that gw2 is lying about its holy triad dissapearing, nonynonyno!
For one, who "heals" the best won't matter, because self heals will be much more powerful than allied heals. So all you naysayers are already wrong on one point. In guild wars 1 aggro was a very fickle thing, enemies would run around attackng whoever they wanted. They didn't just follow some stupid aggro meter equation. So 9 times out of 10, a tank was useless, and should have just dpsed to help kill the enemies quicker. Its going to be similar in Guild Wars 2. A meatshield isn't as useful in a game where the enemies are smarter.
Ingame preview showed that a new character comes ingame walks to a npc with big NEON SIGN above head wtf?, then say the magic words that you already saw in hundreds of other mmo's and give quest thats so brillant you can't believe they have manage to develop in few years time its just awesome. Quest giver say kill 3x VERY DANGEROUS WOLFS omg you gotte be kidding me is this the hyped GW2 yes it is not to mention the combat and how you follow a path and game hold your hand its just pathetic that so many follow this game bah:(
Themeparks will stay the same they will never chance they just become more and more repeat from previous mmo's but simpler:(
Ok thats not quite what I was talking about and I wouldn't say that the first minute is a summation of the entire game. But you have got a good point and that is that you are sad that it is getting simpler. The action bars are simpler in guild wars 2, but this allows for the combat itself to be more complex and chaotic. Have a read of the old article in the post you replied to to get an idea.
It should be noted that the action bars have alot of potential to transform, and as a thread somewhere in mmorpg.com has noted, if you take into account all the transformations (changing weapons, going into a different state like death shroud, or changing your elemental mode for the elementalist as examples) your bar could take throughout a fight each person ends up having about 20 or 30+ moves in total (depending on profession), all of the moves depending on choices that the player has made.
Guild Wars 1 wasn't simple, but that's why arenanet have to abandon it and build a new project to innovate more. Perhaps guild wars 1 is for you if you want complexity? There are thousands of moves in that, and you can be two classes at once and build your bar exactly as you like.
Just to illustrate my point, compare world of warcraft pvp to Dota or League of Legends (a source of inspiration for gw2). Dota and League of Legends are equally, or in my opinion much more intense to play, but when you look at them they are at base level quite simple.
IT is weird. Not that there are people that still play. But that there are people that have played it since it's release. I honestly couldn't stand doing the same thing for 6 years.
(Vanilla) Level > Dungeons > Raid >(TBC) Level > Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > Raid >(WotLK) Level > Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > 10 mans > 25 mans > Heroic 10's > Heroic 25 mans > (Cata) Level > Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > 10 mans > 25 mans > Heroic 10's > Heroic 25 mans
And grinding BG's for gear doesn't sound much more fun either. Maybe on and off. But not for 6 years straight. I just don't see the appeal to play this for that long.
if you'll allow me...
it's simple, really. you find your ideal guild. you find your confort zone in pve and you...raid.
you're happy where you are. you dont want more or less. as boses die and get on farm, new bosses come along, prolonguing the state that you're in rather than change it.
makes sense?
I more than understand what you're saying, but I still don't understand how someone can be happy doing that exact routine for six years in the same game.
If people enjoy that, well props to them for finding something they enjoy. I played myself from TBC's release to 3.3.3 (Ulduar I believe?) and I got bored with it after that. To each their own.
a: Time. It will slowly fade away as other games do, as new things come along. (of which none can claim to THE wow killer)
b: Wow itself. If they bring out a bad expantion it can and will hurt the game (happened to DAoC with ToA)
c: Blizzard itself, if they decide the game is no long not worth it.. (Doubt that will happen. Look at games like UO and EQ, that keeps going despite low numbers)
Comments
i think the only thing that'll bring down wow is blizzard, and i don't see it happening anytime soon. i also don't see anything in the forseeable future taking down the big, bad MMORPG monster.
gw2 isn't just "hype", their ideas alone make the wow model more and more obsolete as people come to understand them. AoC and war did not move away from the wow model even a fraction of what guild wars 2 is.
"It's clear that no major game company is willing to innovate far enough away from Blizzard’s now industry-standard blueprint to cause millions of gamers to gravitate to their titles"
gw2 is very much willing. I'd recommend you read more. Start with the information under "The Game" in the guild wars 2 home page.
Or if you're lazy, you can find articles like http://www.tentonhammer.com/gw2/features/editorials/why-you-should-care written by people who started as sceptics of guild wars 2, then did the research for you, and then understood why its important and changed their opinion reluctantly.
stayontarget, its not just "nice and all" its a rebuttle that makes your first statement false. I think you're a troll so I won't bother arguing any more. If you don't understand what's going on in the videos you're watching what's the point?
Making another WoW won't kill the game. It has to be something new, a niche that becomes something more. We see it time and time again with the EQ/WoW clones that are out. Everyone goes back to WoW because they would rather play WoW than a clone.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
Saw GW2, watch videos (which are quite dissappointing), informed myself about possbile "revolution". All that doesn't come even close to revolution, or "NEW" model. Not even by a long shot. There are some very nice features in there but in the end it will come to who tanks/heals/dps the best and those classes will be chosen to raid/pvp or whatever.
Nothing new. Not one thing. Please check your facts before you call someone a troll.
He didnt start as a sceptic, he was unaware and then became a fanboy over night lol
Joking aside, the art looks great! I like it alot. The features however all reminded me of something else. Revolution? I dont think so. Potetial to be a great game? Sure! Play or not, I hope it does well. More good developers making a buck cant hurt right?
SPAGHETT
Got ya! Spooked ya!
IT is weird. Not that there are people that still play. But that there are people that have played it since it's release. I honestly couldn't stand doing the same thing for 6 years.
(Vanilla) Level > Dungeons > Raid >(TBC) Level > Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > Raid >(WotLK) Level > Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > 10 mans > 25 mans > Heroic 10's > Heroic 25 mans > (Cata) Level > Dungeons > Heroic Dungeons > 10 mans > 25 mans > Heroic 10's > Heroic 25 mans
And grinding BG's for gear doesn't sound much more fun either. Maybe on and off. But not for 6 years straight. I just don't see the appeal to play this for that long.
0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3
wow killer?
a product which sucks all the wow people inside of it ?
who the heck wants to be part of that.
Generation P
Maybe you should check your facts as well? Every class is design to be capable to a certain extend to 'tank' (well its more like CC to control the boss, instead of absorbing damage like a meatloaf), DPS, and Heal/Revive. Each class designs to achieve this in a different way, so all classes will become viable in terms of grouping for raid/pvp.
Just because the skill video looks like a ranger shooting an arrow does not mean classes are functioning the same way.
Then you probably gonna think "everyone is gonna solo since they can do everything". Well no to that as well, Even tho classes are design to achieve multiple roles, it will be quite hard to finish content by playing two roles at once, eg: your energy regen will not keep up if you try to CC and DPS at the same time.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
WoW will be hurt when Blizzard decides to make a sequel. I'm not saying this sequel will outdo WoW as far as the current sub numbers. However, it will cause a rift, and open an opportunity for people to check out other games. If WoW players know the end is near they will then try to find another game. Now, that may very well be its sequel - I'm talking about sequel in spirit not necessarily WoW 2.
Another WoW clone can't compete with WoW. Not many people are going to leave a game to play another game that's not even as good as the one they left. However, once resources are diverted from WoW by Blizzard towards its successor we will see people leave. Right now, there is absolutely no incentive to play one of these half-assed clones. And for those of us looking for a game that isn't a perptual raid grind, well we are F-ed,friends. Rightly and truly f-ed.
Ye theory is a great thing. Practice is something else. Unless they make the mechanics same/similar with only cosmetic differences (think WoW, where every healer has pretty much the same abilities with another name/twist) its gonna be really hard to balance and some class/spec will be more wanted for raid then others. Balance is hard, MMOs are never really balanced, its a constant work in progress. Not saying it will be a total mess, but you sound like it will be perfect....
Look at the bigger picture and supress you fan side of GW2 for just a minute. Do you really believe it won't come down to who tanks the best, who heals the best and who dps's the best? Maybe roles of tank/heal/dps won't be so emphesized but it will still be same old, same old. As I said, current MMOs and MMOs that will be released in the next year won't have anything new. Nothing new generation. It WILL stay the same. Only MMO that has some potential of starting something new is Secret World. Totally different concept. We can now only wait will Funcom deliver their promises.
All you people who think that gw2 is lying about its holy triad dissapearing, nonynonyno!
For one, who "heals" the best won't matter, because self heals will be much more powerful than allied heals. So all you naysayers are already wrong on one triangle of the triad.
In guild wars 1 aggro was a very fickle thing, enemies would run around attackng whoever they wanted. They didn't just follow some stupid aggro meter equation. So 9 times out of 10, a pure tank was useless, and should have just dpsed to help kill the enemies quicker.Its going to be similar in Guild Wars 2. A meatshield isn't as useful in a game where the enemies are smarter.
I'm sure dps will be important, but its not like a wow raid where your dps is mathematically worked out and that's all that matters. The combat in guild wars 2 is much more chaotic and less structured than that, so that all the tools a profession can bring to the table can be useful, not just their GEAR SCORE and their ONE SIX NINE POINT SEVEN DEEPIESS.
Let me give you an old pcgamer article to help you understand how the chaos of combat comes down to much much more than just who can TANK HEAL AND DPS the best http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/10/18/guild-wars-2-hands-on-preview/
GW2 will fail and you know why?
Ingame preview showed that a new character comes ingame walks to a npc with big NEON SIGN above head wtf?, then say the magic words that you already saw in hundreds of other mmo's and give quest thats so brillant you can't believe they have manage to develop in few years time its just awesome. Quest giver say kill 3x VERY DANGEROUS WOLFS omg you gotte be kidding me is this the hyped GW2 yes it is not to mention the combat and how you follow a path and game hold your hand its just pathetic that so many follow this game bah:(
Themeparks will stay the same they will never chance they just become more and more repeat from previous mmo's but simpler:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Ok thats not quite what I was talking about and I wouldn't say that the first minute is a summation of the entire game. But you have got a good point and that is that you are sad that it is getting simpler. The action bars are simpler in guild wars 2, but this allows for the combat itself to be more complex and chaotic. Have a read of the old article in the post you replied to to get an idea.
It should be noted that the action bars have alot of potential to transform, and as a thread somewhere in mmorpg.com has noted, if you take into account all the transformations (changing weapons, going into a different state like death shroud, or changing your elemental mode for the elementalist as examples) your bar could take throughout a fight each person ends up having about 20 or 30+ moves in total (depending on profession), all of the moves depending on choices that the player has made.
Guild Wars 1 wasn't simple, but that's why arenanet have to abandon it and build a new project to innovate more. Perhaps guild wars 1 is for you if you want complexity? There are thousands of moves in that, and you can be two classes at once and build your bar exactly as you like.
Just to illustrate my point, compare world of warcraft pvp to Dota or League of Legends (a source of inspiration for gw2). Dota and League of Legends are equally, or in my opinion much more intense to play, but when you look at them they are at base level quite simple.
I more than understand what you're saying, but I still don't understand how someone can be happy doing that exact routine for six years in the same game.
If people enjoy that, well props to them for finding something they enjoy. I played myself from TBC's release to 3.3.3 (Ulduar I believe?) and I got bored with it after that. To each their own.
0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3
How will wow die:
a: Time. It will slowly fade away as other games do, as new things come along. (of which none can claim to THE wow killer)
b: Wow itself. If they bring out a bad expantion it can and will hurt the game (happened to DAoC with ToA)
c: Blizzard itself, if they decide the game is no long not worth it.. (Doubt that will happen. Look at games like UO and EQ, that keeps going despite low numbers)