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What is "Next Gen" about monotonous loot?

depaindepain Member Posts: 263

What is up with the term "Next Generation MMORPG"? Is this supposed to mean advanced, innovative, or state of the art?

This isn't the case...especially when it comes to one of the most important aspects of an MMORPG: The Loot.

 

Item loot is so boring now. I'm not talking about an item's aesthetics, but am refering to an item's statistics. As of today, most (if not all) MMORPGs offer items with set-in-stone attributes. While the items may be fun at first, they quickly lose their luster. It's gotten to the point where I can guess what's in every chest due to the type of mob and where I killed it.

Looting Dagger of the Bane Bear multiple times becomes redundant and bland. Moreover, it produces the following results via Auction House:

 

 

This is the real reason why everyone, especially at end-game, wind up being mere clones, where players only differ from one another due to their name and hair color.

 

This is why I propose the following: Replace Set-'N-Stone Statical Items with Randomized Stastical Items.

What are Randomized Item Stastics?

Randomized Item Stastics are items of the same type, yet contain randomly rolled stats. If you kill a Dark Trooper and he drops two T-21 rifles, both rifles would be totally different in terms of stats. One might have higher damage, whereas the other might be low damage, but with a faster fire rate.

Here is a virtual example of the same item with randomized stats:

 

 

It's obvious that there will need to be some type of cap depending on the level of the mob and the one who killed it. However, these differences will add some major spice to both looting mobs and browsing the auction house.

As for high-end raiding loot, they should have a 100% probability of dropping extreme items.

Comments

  • kaliniskalinis Member Posts: 1,428

    I have no  issue with  the way epic loot drops. At least people know what bosses to farm and what instances to get what they want.

    with your system people could concievably run an instance 10 times the item they want drop but have stats that are useless to them.

    If we are gonna revolutionize loot drops we need to get rid of gray drops. If the drop isnt soemthing to be used in say cooking, as part of a quest or a green or blue or purple item or cloth for tailors i dont see why we need grays that are useless filling up our limited bag space.

    I k now a few mmo's have actually gotten rid of this practice of useless crap drops while leveling but id love to see most if not all mmo's get rid of it.

    Now if u wanna talk craftign items with complety diffrent stats now your talking. This idea works great in wow in the simplistic crafting system. The random stats u get on some gear now is awesome idea.

    As a weaponsmith say in tor u could make a blaster with diffrent dps and rates of fire and diffrent armor with diffrent stats would be cool. Randomizing what stats a crafted item gets would be a blast.

    Epic loot shouldnt do this though. Id hate to raid and get same boss and have item i wanted drop 20 tiems only to have stats i cant use.

  • inBOILinBOIL Member Posts: 669

    too oldschool

    Generation P

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    I think the importance of gear needs to be reduced. To me it makes more sence to get a crapy peice of armor or weapon from a mob as it has suffered a lot of wear and tear. The items from my master black smith friend to be of epic quality since I brought him a rare metal that was in the lair of a massive dragon we killed.

  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Member UncommonPosts: 2,225

    Accomplishments and loot now come too easily and therefore have no value, and failing has little penalty and therefore no sting, so gameplay is increasingly dull and meaningless in these games.

    This will change, however.  The days of the infamous quest treadmill are winding down and newer, better, more challenging games will emerge.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by kalinis

    I have no  issue with  the way epic loot drops. At least people know what bosses to farm and what instances to get what they want.

    with your system people could concievably run an instance 10 times the item they want drop but have stats that are useless to them.

    You're working on the assumption that all MMOs should be designed where the player does nothing other than raid the same 3 dungeons to get his tier 1 epics to raid the next two dungeons to get his tier 2 epics to raid the next two dungeons to get his tier 3 epics... oooh, expansion time! *pay 40 bucks* hey, now I have some cool new content. I can grind faction for my tier 3 epics to be able to survivve the two tier 4 dungeons...

    * P U K E *

     

    Actually, I can see the attraction of that for some people, however I simply can't do that. I am much more a fan of the Titan Quest, Diablo, AC, UO dynamic loot system with craftable augmentation. For those of us who view each boss mob as a pinata of surprises or who like progression systems where you tailor your character to your playstyle rather than the other way around, dynamic rocks.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • TorikTorik Member UncommonPosts: 2,342

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by kalinis

    I have no  issue with  the way epic loot drops. At least people know what bosses to farm and what instances to get what they want.

    with your system people could concievably run an instance 10 times the item they want drop but have stats that are useless to them.

    You're working on the assumption that all MMOs should be designed where the player does nothing other than raid the same 3 dungeons to get his tier 1 epics to raid the next two dungeons to get his tier 2 epics to raid the next two dungeons to get his tier 3 epics... oooh, expansion time! *pay 40 bucks* hey, now I have some cool new content. I can grind faction for my tier 3 epics to be able to survivve the two tier 4 dungeons...

    * P U K E *

     

    Actually, I can see the attraction of that for some people, however I simply can't do that. I am much more a fan of the Titan Quest, Diablo, AC, UO dynamic loot system with craftable augmentation. For those of us who view each boss mob as a pinata of surprises or who like progression systems where you tailor your character to your playstyle rather than the other way around, dynamic rocks.

     

    I don't really view random loot as 'dynamic loot'.  I prefer the aquisition of gear to be a result of skill and research and not of a random number generator.    I like to put real effort into improving my character rather than relying on gambling.

    My prefered gear/loot system would be based on customized crafting where a knowledgeable and experienced crafter can get teh desired results fitting a player's playstyle.

  • BTrayaLBTrayaL Member UncommonPosts: 624

    I posted my take on this already: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4176932

    I totally agree with randomisation!

    image
  • SkuldinSkuldin Member Posts: 79

    How about a bit of both?

    I think every item being "epic" or magic on a character needs to go away.  Make iron to low-steel to high-steel mean something and crafting meaningful instead of how it is in modern MMOS. 

    The loot on general mobs should be more random indeed as stated by the OP, but crafting and its customization should be possible as well.  The problem occurs when gear is the only true way to improve a character such as seen in WoW and Rift then that makes too many ways to acquire it and crafting is generally the third best option outside of a few rare drop recipes in dungeons.

    If you cut down on just how many magic items each person has and make more "mundane" items not only useable but desireable you have fixed many of the mud-flation problems inherent with the 'green, blue purple' loot drop model.

     

    Thirty years of gaming experience...not sure if I should be proud of that
    www.mmoexaminer.blogspot.com

    image
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,541

    I'm sorry.  Has anyone ever stated anywher,e on any thread, in any forum, in any game that ever existed that loot was ever what they meant when talking about next gen games?

    I've never heard that one before.

    Venge

    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • BTrayaLBTrayaL Member UncommonPosts: 624

    If we talk about crafting, you guys should try Ryzom, it had the absolute BEST craft system I have ever ever ever seen.

    You can craft the same model of a weapon from different materials (different woods, irons) and they really change the item's properties.

    Too bad the game was a bit unpopular..

    P.S. ;VengeSunsoar: no, but for me, "next-gen" includes a lot of new/different ideeas, and loot is a huge part of RPG gaming, it always was.

    image
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by Torik

    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by kalinis

    I have no  issue with  the way epic loot drops. At least people know what bosses to farm and what instances to get what they want.

    with your system people could concievably run an instance 10 times the item they want drop but have stats that are useless to them.

    You're working on the assumption that all MMOs should be designed where the player does nothing other than raid the same 3 dungeons to get his tier 1 epics to raid the next two dungeons to get his tier 2 epics to raid the next two dungeons to get his tier 3 epics... oooh, expansion time! *pay 40 bucks* hey, now I have some cool new content. I can grind faction for my tier 3 epics to be able to survivve the two tier 4 dungeons...

    * P U K E *

     

    Actually, I can see the attraction of that for some people, however I simply can't do that. I am much more a fan of the Titan Quest, Diablo, AC, UO dynamic loot system with craftable augmentation. For those of us who view each boss mob as a pinata of surprises or who like progression systems where you tailor your character to your playstyle rather than the other way around, dynamic rocks.

     

    I don't really view random loot as 'dynamic loot'.  I prefer the aquisition of gear to be a result of skill and research and not of a random number generator.    I like to put real effort into improving my character rather than relying on gambling.

    My prefered gear/loot system would be based on customized crafting where a knowledgeable and experienced crafter can get teh desired results fitting a player's playstyle.

    You're talking about crafting, not drops.  I think you, Kalinis and I are on similar pages there in our crafting preference for being able to specfically tailor gear based on one's selected choice and not a die roll. Custom alteration of dynamic drop loot (Asheron's Call) is my personal preference. Second to that would be slotted gear like AoC and Rift have or, preferrably, EVE Online's system of scores of base units and thousands of interchangable (permanent and non-permanent) modules.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I'm sorry.  Has anyone ever stated anywher,e on any thread, in any forum, in any game that ever existed that loot was ever what they meant when talking about next gen games?

    I've never heard that one before.

    Venge

    Neither have I but I fugred, eh... we'll roll with the topic. Since the screenshots are from the one game that had the most questionable definition of 'next generation' I figured the topic was part serious part joking anyway.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by Skuldin

    How about a bit of both?

    I think every item being "epic" or magic on a character needs to go away.  Make iron to low-steel to high-steel mean something and crafting meaningful instead of how it is in modern MMOS.

    Ultima Online used up all the cool ideas almost a decade ago and most devs since then haven't found any of them worthy of their games it seems. The resists and properties of your finaly product were dependent on the ore or leather used to make the item. :)

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AzrileAzrile Member Posts: 2,582

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Skuldin

    How about a bit of both?

    I think every item being "epic" or magic on a character needs to go away.  Make iron to low-steel to high-steel mean something and crafting meaningful instead of how it is in modern MMOS.

    Ultima Online used up all the cool ideas almost a decade ago and most devs since then haven't found any of them worthy of their games it seems. The resists and properties of your finaly product were dependent on the ore or leather used to make the item. :)

     

    Actually, that was one of the biggest killers of Ultima Online when they made that switch with AOS.  Before AOS, crafted gear was great, and had static stats.

    When they introduced AOS, they gave the diable system, where you had 15 or so different stats, and gear would get 2 or 3 random stats in different amounts.

    I would literally camp blood elementals and Balrons for hours, and get 100 drops, all of which were instantly deleted.  Even though I had a popular mall, I knew nobody would buy the stuff.

    When you have randomized stats, then you are going to end up with most of it useless for most characters, which means you have to greatly increase the drop rate in order for players to ever get upgrades.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by Azrile

    When you have randomized stats, then you are going to end up with most of it useless for most characters, which means you have to greatly increase the drop rate in order for players to ever get upgrades.

    Or make the materials of drops salvagable and the crafting system more customizable as they did. As for AoS, the crafting improvements weere one of the only redeemable factors of it. The artifacts and heavy gear depedence were the main issues with that expansion.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

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