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  • ZolgarZolgar Member Posts: 533

    It really seems like a lot of people have some sort of grudge against Trion and are WANTING to see this game fail. Why? Are you going to win money if it does? Lose money if it doesn't? It's like it's getting you guys off;

    "Oh yeah... of yes... fail... please fail... oh xfire... and numbers... oh they dropped... yes drop for me baby... oh... oh... FAIL!"

    0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3

  • inBOILinBOIL Member Posts: 669

    Originally posted by Zolgar

    It really seems like a lot of people have some sort of grudge against Trion and are WANTING to see this game fail. Why? Are you going to win money if it does? Lose money if it doesn't? It's like it's getting you guys off;

    "Oh yeah... of yes... fail... please fail... oh xfire... and numers... oh they dropped... yes drop for me baby... oh... oh... FAIL!"

    supermegaimmersive gameplay,,15/10 scores,we are not in azeroth anymore,future of mmos etc.

    thats why perhaps.

    Generation P

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Teala


    Points below.   LOL!  There are more I can easily drudge up if you like.

    Originally posted by Riftsoldier

    We are now in the home stretch. My estimate based on some old data combined with projections and forcasting....and a crystal ball of course.

     

    1,208,321 copies have already been sold worldwide thru the several retailers that are out there as pre-orders.

    Shrug. It's a bit petty to only dug up the most extreme statements from the hundreds of comments people have made. Only proves the point that someone is determined to not use common sense or reason, but is going for sensationalism.

    I could dug up extreme statements of haters and critics as well, but it doesn't prove anything about the majority of people that show at least a modicum of sense, it just shows how offbase and farfetched the extreme ends of opinion were.

    I don't see how it's being petty when she is directly and accurately providing the information in question. To reiterate the statements she was replying to :

     

    "I don't know of a single person that thought Rift would get 2 million or 4 million subs.

    I don't even know of a single person that thought Rift would get 1 million."

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Yamota



    Yep. So far it has followed WARs numbers. 1+ million copies sold and down ~20% after the first month. Lets see if the second month is much different, believe the drop was around 35% for WAR.

    Iirc the dropoff for WAR was more about 30% after the first month, maybe slightly less.

    The dropoff for Rift is more around 10-15%, no more.

    We'll see how this continues.

     


    Originally posted by Teala



    He called me out, said nobody ever said that this game would have 2 million players and asked me to find just one example.  I did.  Sorry that bums you out.

    Naah, don't worry. I just found it petty, arguments only used in the case of sensationalism with an agenda. Nothing more to it, really.

    This game had some rabid fanboyism pre-launch and that will always result in backlash from the more reasonable crowd and trolls alike. Expect to see some Necroing a year from now for some good laughs.

  • HoliceHolice Member UncommonPosts: 116

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Sicc1

    Looks like about only a 4-5% drop according to xfire numbers taken sunday. Not sure where 20% came from. Heres an article i read about it.

     

    Sunday March 13th peak: 28961 hours

    Sunday April 10th peak: 22895 hours

    (22895-28961)/28961 = -0.21 = 21 %

    The problem is that you have not taken into account that in March there was no baseball on Sunday and now there is. And at least 75% of all people who like baseball and Rift had a 58% chance of not playing Rift because they were watching baseball, while 100% of the people at the game were not playing Rift, and 87% of people who like Rift but not baseball, had a 7% chance of watching the game because of a friend that was watching it.

  • ZolgarZolgar Member Posts: 533

    Originally posted by inBOIL

    Originally posted by Zolgar

    It really seems like a lot of people have some sort of grudge against Trion and are WANTING to see this game fail. Why? Are you going to win money if it does? Lose money if it doesn't? It's like it's getting you guys off;

    "Oh yeah... of yes... fail... please fail... oh xfire... and numers... oh they dropped... yes drop for me baby... oh... oh... FAIL!"

    supermegaimmersive gameplay,,15/10 scores,we are not in azeroth anymore,future of mmos etc.

    thats why perhaps.

    Haven't heard anything like that. Except for the Azeroth thing. And who really gives a fuck? IF you don't like the reviews, commercials, ads, and what people say, don't play and don't listen.

    0118 999 881 999 119 725... 3

  • tryklontryklon Member UncommonPosts: 1,370

    Originally posted by Zolgar

    It really seems like a lot of people have some sort of grudge against Trion and are WANTING to see this game fail. Why? Are you going to win money if it does? Lose money if it doesn't? It's like it's getting you guys off;

    "Oh yeah... of yes... fail... please fail... oh xfire... and numers... oh they dropped... yes drop for me baby... oh... oh... FAIL!"

     The sad part is that most of this guys are the ones who say Blizzard and WoW destroyed the market, but still, they come here and pay them the best servive they could ever desire.

    Even if they hate this genre they could adopt the very known strategy of "divide to conquer" =P but no, they try to make competition of WoW fail to see WoW always on the top, hehe

     

    Fortunately, the game is doing absolutely great and all in all no one on the streets really cares about what haters or lovers write here

  • tabarjacktabarjack Member UncommonPosts: 249

    Originally posted by Zolgar

    It really seems like a lot of people have some sort of grudge against Trion and are WANTING to see this game fail. Why? Are you going to win money if it does? Lose money if it doesn't? It's like it's getting you guys off;

    "Oh yeah... of yes... fail... please fail... oh xfire... and numbers... oh they dropped... yes drop for me baby... oh... oh... FAIL!"

    Actually, some people are just tired of seeing WoW clones and want every clone to fail, in the hopes that one day, a company comes along and makes a new game instead of a copy of an old game.

  • zeuseasonzeuseason Member UncommonPosts: 69

    I've found most gamers that actually install and use xfire, are gamefly subscribers, which means they can't sit still and play a single game for more than a few hours.  So, a 20% reduction in xfire hours played is freakign awesome that Rift has kept the attention of the mass gaming ADD audience that is xfire users.

  • tharkthark Member UncommonPosts: 1,188

    Originally posted by Kremlik

    IT'S DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED XFIRE'S NUMBERS EQUAL THE EXACT NUMBERS OF THE PLAYERS IN THE GAME!!!!!!!!

    For petes sake I wish people stop using stuff like Xfire or randomly going into game and '/who'ing to count 'how many people are playing'

    NOT EVERYONE uses Xfire

    NOT EVERYONE plays a game at 'peak' and/or is in the same timezone as you

    ----

    If the above was always true then all MMOs would have stopped service the 2 months after release... oh wait most are still going

     

    As far as a survey goes--Well It serves the point of just that..to look at trends . see patterns etc

    A survey is usually taken by a number of people raging from 100-1000 or maybe even lots more (random people)

    Sure not all people are using X-fire, but not all people are target for a election survey either, yet they use it to tell you wich goverment we are going to get with rather precise result (most of the times)..

    In the case of X-fire , we can say that the gamers that use X-fire, does not represent the whole gaming community from Rift, and we are not even sure that the gamers that use X-fire has the same preferences than subscribers that doesn't use it.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by Zolgar

    It really seems like a lot of people have some sort of grudge against Trion and are WANTING to see this game fail. Why? Are you going to win money if it does? Lose money if it doesn't? It's like it's getting you guys off;

    "Oh yeah... of yes... fail... please fail... oh xfire... and numbers... oh they dropped... yes drop for me baby... oh... oh... FAIL!"

    Given the choice of reading a forum post about Rift failing or coming home to this in their living room, a lot of peopel here would choose the forum post.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • KilmarKilmar Member UncommonPosts: 844

    Originally posted by Zolgar

    It really seems like a lot of people have some sort of grudge against Trion and are WANTING to see this game fail. Why? Are you going to win money if it does? Lose money if it doesn't? It's like it's getting you guys off;

    "Oh yeah... of yes... fail... please fail... oh xfire... and numbers... oh they dropped... yes drop for me baby... oh... oh... FAIL!"

     This is the rage brigade of Blizzard.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Know who else liked to pretend xfire numbers reflected nothing?

     

    The fanboys for the last 6 WoW clones that failed after the first month.

  • AnthurAnthur Member UncommonPosts: 961

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Sicc1

    Looks like about only a 4-5% drop according to xfire numbers taken sunday. Not sure where 20% came from. Heres an article i read about it.

     

    Sunday March 13th peak: 28961 hours

    Sunday April 10th peak: 22895 hours

    (22895-28961)/28961 = -0.21 = 21 %

    Local weather:

    Sunday March 13th: 10 degrees celsius, rainy

    Sunday April 10th: 20 degrees celsius, sunny

    Not playing Rift but really, I wouldn't have played it last sunday anyway. And 14 pages discussion about Rifts current population ? Funny, plz continue.

    Btw, OP is correct, somehow:

    http://www.liquidsculpture.com/images/water/water-drop-a.jpg

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by Kilmar

    Originally posted by Zolgar

    It really seems like a lot of people have some sort of grudge against Trion and are WANTING to see this game fail. Why? Are you going to win money if it does? Lose money if it doesn't? It's like it's getting you guys off;

    "Oh yeah... of yes... fail... please fail... oh xfire... and numbers... oh they dropped... yes drop for me baby... oh... oh... FAIL!"

     This is the rage brigade of Blizzard.

    You'd have been more accurate if you said "The rage brigade against WoW clones". People who play WoW are happily playing WoW, they don't care about Rift.

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Yamota



    Yep. So far it has followed WARs numbers. 1+ million copies sold and down ~20% after the first month. Lets see if the second month is much different, believe the drop was around 35% for WAR.

    Iirc the dropoff for WAR was more about 30% after the first month, maybe slightly less.

    The dropoff for Rift is more around 10-15%, no more.

    We'll see how this continues.

     

    Well according to Marc Jakobs the retention after 1 month was higher than 70% but yeah, he could be lying for all we know. However if I remember correctly WARs number started to steeply decline after 2-3 months when people got sick of the broken T4 gameplay.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by blueturtle13

    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by Yamota


    Originally posted by Zorgo

    Every single mmo released into this market will drop noticably in subs after the first month of free play. /thread

    That only holds true for WoW clones. Alot of old MMORPGs did not lose subs but rather slowly gained.

    Eve, EQ, DAoC, Asherons Call, UO, FF IX, Lineage 2 all of them gained subs months after release and in some cases maintained them for YEARS before starting to drop. Check out http://www.mmodata.net/ to see yourself.

    Even LOTRO gained subs for over a year before starting to slowly drop. It is rather WAR and AoC (and other WoW clones) which dropped significantly in subs.

    So what you're saying is that it has consistently held true for over six years. How does that make his point any less correct?

    What he's saying is, uninspired WoW clones like LotRO, Aion, AoC, Rift, ect ect, dropped in subs after the first month because people realize how same-y it is and go back to what they were doing. The new shine wears off. With older games, that were vastly unique from one another, after the shine wore off there was still a brand new unique game to play, and it GAINED subs. So far, in recent memory, the only MMOs to GAIN subs after launch are Eve and Darkfall, and maybe Fallen Earth.

     Older mmo's had fewer people playing them. The genre was brand new then. Comparing the subs and retention ratesof older mmo's and newer aged mmo's is kinda silly imo

    The genre was NOT brand new. For most people on these boards they started playing in 2004. For people back then, MMOs had been around since 1995. Yeah there were less people playing, but not by as much as you'd think. You you knock off WoW as an outlier, the MMO market hasn't expanded much. WoW's expanded, but the other games have not. Retention rate of older MMOs is a fine comparison. People stayed in games longer then because games weren't all the same and it took longer to get bored. It's fairly logical.

  • shane242shane242 Member UncommonPosts: 95

    hmm i had to wait 25min lastnight to login.. so numbers not falling that much, at least not on whitefall.

    Yes hours played falls after the first month on evrey single game. but thats because the hardcore rush to cap is over or users are burnt out. Now its normal play for the casual player. I bet if we had the same number for wow there would be such a drop.

    That being said i wouldnt expect evrey siongle user that was playing to still be, so all games will have a dip after the first fire months. it's the slow gain after that realy makes it count.

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    Originally posted by shane242

    hmm i had to wait 25min lastnight to login.. so numbers not falling that much, at least not on whitefall.

    Yes hours played falls after the first month on evrey single game. but thats because the hardcore rush to cap is over or users are burnt out. Now its normal play for the casual player. I bet if we had the same number for wow there would be such a drop.

    That being said i wouldnt expect evrey siongle user that was playing to still be, so all games will have a dip after the first fire months. it's the slow gain after that realy makes it count.

    The problem is with all the fresh meat comming into the genre you wont see a slow gain just more losses.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Xzen

    This game had some rabid fanboyism pre-launch and that will always result in backlash from the more reasonable crowd and trolls alike. Expect to see some Necroing a year from now for some good laughs.

    Let's be honest: the game has also seen a hell of a lot of rabid trolling and hating by people who didn't like the game or type of game and who'd love to see it crash and burn.

    There are a hell of a lot of people on these forums who spend more time bashing and hating on MMO's than actually liking or playing MMO's. Like I said before, mmorpg.com is 'the place where old, disgruntled MMO gamers come to die', die meaning having no real lasting MMO home at the moment, reflecting upon the past, often bitterly looking at the present and bashing on any MMO that doesn't fit their narrow, limited taste in hopes that all those will fail so that at least 1 or 2 MMO's they might actually like will emerge image

    Or the last stop before they finally say goodbye to the MMO genre in some cases.

     


    Originally posted by Yamota

    Well according to Marc Jakobs the retention after 1 month was higher than 70% but yeah, he could be lying for all we know. However if I remember correctly WARs number started to steeply decline after 2-3 months when people got sick of the broken T4 gameplay.

    Yeah, I don't find Marc Jakobs the most trustworthy guy in the business but he may have some foundation (or data manipulation) for his statement. In the most positive scenario, 'higher than 70%' usually means 'not higher than 75%' and likely closer to 70% than 75%.

    If you can find figures about the 2-3 months point I'd be interested. I'm always interested in such figures, but couldn't find them myself for WAR (I do have them for AoC though.)

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • watchawatchawatchawatcha Member Posts: 960

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick


    Originally posted by Teala


    Points below.   LOL!  There are more I can easily drudge up if you like.

    Originally posted by Riftsoldier

    We are now in the home stretch. My estimate based on some old data combined with projections and forcasting....and a crystal ball of course.

     

    1,208,321 copies have already been sold worldwide thru the several retailers that are out there as pre-orders.

    Shrug. It's a bit petty to only dug up the most extreme statements from the hundreds of comments people have made. Only proves the point that someone is determined to not use common sense or reason, but is going for sensationalism.

    I could dug up extreme statements of haters and critics as well, but it doesn't prove anything about the majority of people that show at least a modicum of sense, it just shows how offbase and farfetched the extreme ends of opinion were.

    I don't see how it's being petty when she is directly and accurately providing the information in question. To reiterate the statements she was replying to :

     

    "I don't know of a single person that thought Rift would get 2 million or 4 million subs.

    I don't even know of a single person that thought Rift would get 1 million."

    And I didn't know of that post and she found it.  Someone did very accurately predict that Rift got over 1 million subs at launch.  Now for the 2 million or 4 million?  Well no she didn't.  The 2 million guess was for a year later (which I don't agree with) and she hasn't found a quote where someone said 4 million at launch.

    Still waiting on those posts.

     

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,045

    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by blueturtle13

    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Zorgo

    Every single mmo released into this market will drop noticably in subs after the first month of free play. /thread

    That only holds true for WoW clones. Alot of old MMORPGs did not lose subs but rather slowly gained.

    Eve, EQ, DAoC, Asherons Call, UO, FF IX, Lineage 2 all of them gained subs months after release and in some cases maintained them for YEARS before starting to drop. Check out http://www.mmodata.net/ to see yourself.

    Even LOTRO gained subs for over a year before starting to slowly drop. It is rather WAR and AoC (and other WoW clones) which dropped significantly in subs.

    So what you're saying is that it has consistently held true for over six years. How does that make his point any less correct?

    What he's saying is, uninspired WoW clones like LotRO, Aion, AoC, Rift, ect ect, dropped in subs after the first month because people realize how same-y it is and go back to what they were doing. The new shine wears off. With older games, that were vastly unique from one another, after the shine wore off there was still a brand new unique game to play, and it GAINED subs. So far, in recent memory, the only MMOs to GAIN subs after launch are Eve and Darkfall, and maybe Fallen Earth.

     Older mmo's had fewer people playing them. The genre was brand new then. Comparing the subs and retention ratesof older mmo's and newer aged mmo's is kinda silly imo

    The genre was NOT brand new. For most people on these boards they started playing in 2004. For people back then, MMOs had been around since 1995. Yeah there were less people playing, but not by as much as you'd think. You you knock off WoW as an outlier, the MMO market hasn't expanded much. WoW's expanded, but the other games have not. Retention rate of older MMOs is a fine comparison. People stayed in games longer then because games weren't all the same and it took longer to get bored. It's fairly logical.

     Yes it was new. We were talking about UO and EQ and AC and DAoC? what are you talking about?

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • watchawatchawatchawatcha Member Posts: 960

    Originally posted by Xzen

     

    This game had some rabid fanboyism pre-launch and that will always result in backlash from the more reasonable crowd and trolls alike. Expect to see some Necroing a year from now for some good laughs.

    You do know that if someone cared enough, they could already find numerous post where haters predicted that the game would fail at launch and 1 month out? 

    Point is:  Extremes on either end will always be proven wrong.  That's something that holds true for many things in life.

  • XzenXzen Member UncommonPosts: 2,607

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Xzen



    This game had some rabid fanboyism pre-launch and that will always result in backlash from the more reasonable crowd and trolls alike. Expect to see some Necroing a year from now for some good laughs.

    Let's be honest: the game has also seen a hell of a lot of rabid trolling and hating by people who didn't like the game or type of game and who'd love to see it crash and burn.

    There are a hell of a lot of people on these forums who spend more time bashing and hating on MMO's than actually liking or playing MMO's. Like I said before, mmorpg.com is 'the place where old, disgruntled MMO gamers come to die', die meaning having no real lasting MMO home at the moment, reflecting upon the past, often bitterly looking at the present and bashing on any MMO that doesn't fit their narrow, limited taste in hopes that all those will fail so that at least 1 or 2 MMO's they might actually like will emerge image

    Or the last stop before they finally say goodbye to the MMO genre in some cases.

    Personally I consider myself to be one of the more reasonable people here. I've made it known that I dislike the game as I don't find it fun. However if you dig up my old posts you would see I've always said that it was solid and one of the most polished games in recent history and would be successful. However it also still has the chance of going south quickly and ending up like WAR. Only time will tell.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Xzen

    Personally I consider myself to be one of the more reasonable people here. I've made it known that I dislike the game as I don't find it fun. However if you dig up my old posts you would see I've always said that it was solid and one of the most polished games in recent history and would be successful. However it also still has the chance of going south quickly and ending up like WAR. Only time will tell.

    I don't doubt your words. But you have to admit, not everybody is like you, there were also haters/critics who were a lot more unreasonable than you before Rift's launch, just as there were extreme fanbois.

    I'd say that a viewpoint enters the extreme side of things, fanboism or hating/grinching, when someone can't acknowledge the other side of the argument anymore, only seeing either good or bad of a game. That's where blind bias starts to come in.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

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