"Sandbox" games just seem to draw in all the asshats. So I guess it's good for the rest of us, because it keeps them out of other games.
Since when did Sandbox mean = I can do whatever I want without consequence?
We live in a rl sandbox, right? And if get caught breaking rules or trying to ruin the fun of others, we get punished. Why should a game be any different?
That's why so few of them work. If there wasn't hi-sec space in Eve and safety in starports, you can bet it would be struggling along, as well.
I think the main problem with MO and DF, though, is that they're both sandbox(ish) AND FFA PvP. If you go to great pains to give people the freedom to be D-bags to other strangers on the internet, then go sandbox, opening up several ways of ruining peoples lives beyond PvP... well... don't be surprised when a good number of folks run with that opportunity.
Never thought I'd say this but... Why would anyone play MO when there is Darkfall?
Cause they don´t wanna grind a year to become someone that don´t get owned all the time?
Well MO is hardly suited to a long progression scale, given the fact it's servers are offline a vast amount of the time. Coupled with the fact that it is highly debatable as to whether the game will even exist in a years time.
The MO server is most certainly not offline a "vast" amount of the time. Really can't call that anything other than a lie.
From playing both, the difference to me is that MO is a sandbox (though it currently needs more sand), while DF is more of a clan warfare themepark than a sandbox. Aventurine appears totally clueless as far as sandbox game design is concerned.
Buncha children, AQ = all the trash / guild hoppers in the game. THey showed up and tried to crash the party they shoulda started banning them. If they did it might help save their game.
They do have a point though, when the GM's interfere in a player v player encounter in a so-called "sandbox" mmo there is something wrong.
As one fella said, if they wanted guards, they should have put in guards, if not, let the players play. Fact is they didn't organise the event well at all, some players figured out how to have some fun ganking those arriving, GM's realised they hadn't designed the event properly and interfered.
While i understand these muppets were trying to ruin others fun...the game ALLOWS for this type of behaviour and attracts these types of players. People pay to play a game knowing the rules. It just seems every new "sandbox" pvp game becomes more and more carebear to cater for the disorganised and solo pvers and punish gankers, the real way to counter gankers is gank back, thats how it should be done in a sandbox mmo, let players police players unless they are exploiting or bug abusing. THEN and only then the GM's should interfere.
I see the same thing on "pvp servers" in other games, people whinging about getting ganked....but they made a CHOICE to roll on a pvp server knowing this would be a possibility....it just beggars belief.
Well the game also ALLOWS the GM's to step in and stop the asshats from ruining the fun for everyone else.
What? No it doesn't. If you are being griefed in the game then that is your problem. Calling to a GM to kill the offender shouldn't be a viable solution.
If your being greifed constantly by the same player most of the tos on any games will cover that under the harrasment clauses of the game and you will get a warning, then your account will be suspended, and if you keep it up you will have your account revoked. Sorry, mr greifer man, but it okay to pk a person a few times, to keep hounding the same one, or to seem like you are, will get you in hot water fast, especially if it is you greifing a group of people. Why because that group of people = more money than your one account.
I dont know the whole story, what exactly happened?
Know what pisses me off? When those players complain about GM interaction. GM's have every place to show up and do events and do whatever they want in order to make those events possible. If players are ruining the event they really have no right to complain about how a GM handles them.
Sandboxes need GM events or theyll never make it into mainstream.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief. Join me on TwitchFacebook Twitter
While I can certainly see how this is a rather controversial topic, being a debate of rules and such. I look at these A.Q. boys as a griefing guild. They get together to harass others and drink their tears, laughing at them every chance they get. Seeing them cry makes me smile. Sometimes, regard for rules and technicalities is something I just don't care for. Cause enough upset for others, and you are going to get yours....and I like that idea. I like it a lot.
Turns out the tears of griefers are even sweeter than those they grief.
While I can certainly see how this is a rather controversial topic, being a debate of rules and such. I look at these A.Q. boys as a griefing guild. They get together to harass others and drink their tears, laughing at them every chance they get. Seeing them cry makes me smile. Sometimes, regard for rules and technicalities is something I just don't care for. Cause enough upset for others, and you are going to get yours....and I like that idea. I like it a lot.
Turns out the tears of griefers are even sweeter than those they grief.
Yet.. it would appear that if their goal was simply "griefing" that they won, since the event was cancelled by the GMs running it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Random: But you're not supposed to walk up and kill a player in a situation like this!
PK: Yeah? Not supposed to? Show me where that rule is written. You can't because it doesn't exist, and you're upset that my actions prove that your imaginary set of rules about player-to-player interaction are completely made up.
GM: Die!
PK: Hey! What did you kill me for?
GM: You were disrupting the event.
PK: But GMs are not supposed to walk up and kill a player in a situation like this!
GM: Yeah? No supposed to? Show me where that rule is written. You can't because it doesn't exist, etc.
I really don't get what they're trying to do there.
In 2003 I was joining "spectator" servers to watch ClanBase matches in Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, back then it was fine and no problem; but seriously the event was players come to gate, get teleported randomly, GM's spawn some mobs in the pit, then when its all said and done they teleport players out? In a MMO, in 2011?
I can't remember the last MMO that required GM's to manually teleport player-by-player to the "event".
No kidding. I've played a sandbox MMOFPSRPG back in 2004 that had events.
In these, GMs never had to teleport each player in order to participate.
Dispite it being FFA the GMs managed to keep everyone from not fighting or starting crap, and even it did happen it was dealt with and the event continued. BACK IN 2004!
Originally posted by monstermmo
I dont know the whole story, what exactly happened?
Know what pisses me off? When those players complain about GM interaction. GM's have every place to show up and do events and do whatever they want in order to make those events possible. If players are ruining the event they really have no right to complain about how a GM handles them.
Sandboxes need GM events or theyll never make it into mainstream.
^ Which is exactly why I will never pay SV anything and will only do the trial. The rules in place aren't working and so you have deal with players that exploit them at every turn.
I feel really sorry for the subscribers that still play for the sake of RP clinging to the idea that it will get better.
PK: The players at the event can't stop me because they are all RP nerds and I'm a PK with a group
PK: I'm killing many players inside the GM's event
GM: You are in my event, killing players that are not to be killed.
PK: I'm doing exactly what you just said.
GM: I'm going to kill you now
PK: You can't stop me from ruining your event, you're not a player!
GM: So why can you inevitably destroy my event, with no risk?
PK: Um.
"GMs cant interfere with players" is a belief of one of the AQ.
"Players can interfere with GMs" is a belief of the same AQ.
How can that system work, AQ?. GMs would technically never be able to host an event again, without integrating / using an ingame mechanic physically limiting players from doing something (like attacking a target).
This game is not a true sandbox, so it doesn't need to follow true sandbox rules, it never claimed to be 100% sandbox, so you can NOT make assumptions based on that model, ie: I can do whatever the fuck I want because I pixels.
Never thought I'd say this but... Why would anyone play MO when there is Darkfall?
Cause they don´t wanna grind a year to become someone that don´t get owned all the time?
Well MO is hardly suited to a long progression scale, given the fact it's servers are offline a vast amount of the time. Coupled with the fact that it is highly debatable as to whether the game will even exist in a years time.
The MO server is most certainly not offline a "vast" amount of the time. Really can't call that anything other than a lie.
From playing both, the difference to me is that MO is a sandbox (though it currently needs more sand), while DF is more of a clan warfare themepark than a sandbox. Aventurine appears totally clueless as far as sandbox game design is concerned.
Buncha children, AQ = all the trash / guild hoppers in the game. THey showed up and tried to crash the party they shoulda started banning them. If they did it might help save their game.
They do have a point though, when the GM's interfere in a player v player encounter in a so-called "sandbox" mmo there is something wrong.
As one fella said, if they wanted guards, they should have put in guards, if not, let the players play. Fact is they didn't organise the event well at all, some players figured out how to have some fun ganking those arriving, GM's realised they hadn't designed the event properly and interfered.
While i understand these muppets were trying to ruin others fun...the game ALLOWS for this type of behaviour and attracts these types of players. People pay to play a game knowing the rules. It just seems every new "sandbox" pvp game becomes more and more carebear to cater for the disorganised and solo pvers and punish gankers, the real way to counter gankers is gank back, thats how it should be done in a sandbox mmo, let players police players unless they are exploiting or bug abusing. THEN and only then the GM's should interfere.
I see the same thing on "pvp servers" in other games, people whinging about getting ganked....but they made a CHOICE to roll on a pvp server knowing this would be a possibility....it just beggars belief.
Well the game also ALLOWS the GM's to step in and stop the asshats from ruining the fun for everyone else.
What? No it doesn't. If you are being griefed in the game then that is your problem. Calling to a GM to kill the offender shouldn't be a viable solution.
If your being greifed constantly by the same player most of the tos on any games will cover that under the harrasment clauses of the game and you will get a warning, then your account will be suspended, and if you keep it up you will have your account revoked. Sorry, mr greifer man, but it okay to pk a person a few times, to keep hounding the same one, or to seem like you are, will get you in hot water fast, especially if it is you greifing a group of people. Why because that group of people = more money than your one account.
That didn't happen here, though. People went into the event to PK, then got teleported/killed by GMs. If GMs are allowed to just change the game like that then the game is inconsistent and unfair.
What if GMs teleported thieves away from people? What if GMs teleported or killed people that were killing naked players?
That is the game that they have built. The systems in place now support that behavior. If SV doesn't like that they need to change it, not punish players for playing the game as it's built.
Comments
That's why so few of them work. If there wasn't hi-sec space in Eve and safety in starports, you can bet it would be struggling along, as well.
I think the main problem with MO and DF, though, is that they're both sandbox(ish) AND FFA PvP. If you go to great pains to give people the freedom to be D-bags to other strangers on the internet, then go sandbox, opening up several ways of ruining peoples lives beyond PvP... well... don't be surprised when a good number of folks run with that opportunity.
The MO server is most certainly not offline a "vast" amount of the time. Really can't call that anything other than a lie.
From playing both, the difference to me is that MO is a sandbox (though it currently needs more sand), while DF is more of a clan warfare themepark than a sandbox. Aventurine appears totally clueless as far as sandbox game design is concerned.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
If your being greifed constantly by the same player most of the tos on any games will cover that under the harrasment clauses of the game and you will get a warning, then your account will be suspended, and if you keep it up you will have your account revoked. Sorry, mr greifer man, but it okay to pk a person a few times, to keep hounding the same one, or to seem like you are, will get you in hot water fast, especially if it is you greifing a group of people. Why because that group of people = more money than your one account.
I dont know the whole story, what exactly happened?
Know what pisses me off? When those players complain about GM interaction. GM's have every place to show up and do events and do whatever they want in order to make those events possible. If players are ruining the event they really have no right to complain about how a GM handles them.
Sandboxes need GM events or theyll never make it into mainstream.
Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
Join me on Twitch Facebook Twitter
While I can certainly see how this is a rather controversial topic, being a debate of rules and such. I look at these A.Q. boys as a griefing guild. They get together to harass others and drink their tears, laughing at them every chance they get. Seeing them cry makes me smile. Sometimes, regard for rules and technicalities is something I just don't care for. Cause enough upset for others, and you are going to get yours....and I like that idea. I like it a lot.
Turns out the tears of griefers are even sweeter than those they grief.
Yet.. it would appear that if their goal was simply "griefing" that they won, since the event was cancelled by the GMs running it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Griefers got griefed by even bigger bullies, then go on to cry about it all over the place. I love it.
My take on this event:
PK: Die!
Random: Hey! What did you kill me for?
PK: I felt like it.
Random: But you're not supposed to walk up and kill a player in a situation like this!
PK: Yeah? Not supposed to? Show me where that rule is written. You can't because it doesn't exist, and you're upset that my actions prove that your imaginary set of rules about player-to-player interaction are completely made up.
GM: Die!
PK: Hey! What did you kill me for?
GM: You were disrupting the event.
PK: But GMs are not supposed to walk up and kill a player in a situation like this!
GM: Yeah? No supposed to? Show me where that rule is written. You can't because it doesn't exist, etc.
No kidding. I've played a sandbox MMOFPSRPG back in 2004 that had events.
In these, GMs never had to teleport each player in order to participate.
Dispite it being FFA the GMs managed to keep everyone from not fighting or starting crap, and even it did happen it was dealt with and the event continued. BACK IN 2004!
^ Which is exactly why I will never pay SV anything and will only do the trial. The rules in place aren't working and so you have deal with players that exploit them at every turn.
I feel really sorry for the subscribers that still play for the sake of RP clinging to the idea that it will get better.
PK: I can ruin a GM's event
PK: The players at the event can't stop me because they are all RP nerds and I'm a PK with a group
PK: I'm killing many players inside the GM's event
GM: You are in my event, killing players that are not to be killed.
PK: I'm doing exactly what you just said.
GM: I'm going to kill you now
PK: You can't stop me from ruining your event, you're not a player!
GM: So why can you inevitably destroy my event, with no risk?
PK: Um.
"GMs cant interfere with players" is a belief of one of the AQ.
"Players can interfere with GMs" is a belief of the same AQ.
How can that system work, AQ?. GMs would technically never be able to host an event again, without integrating / using an ingame mechanic physically limiting players from doing something (like attacking a target).
This game is not a true sandbox, so it doesn't need to follow true sandbox rules, it never claimed to be 100% sandbox, so you can NOT make assumptions based on that model, ie: I can do whatever the fuck I want because I
pixels.
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/47651-server-status-85.html
The servers are down a vast amount of time for a released game.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
That didn't happen here, though. People went into the event to PK, then got teleported/killed by GMs. If GMs are allowed to just change the game like that then the game is inconsistent and unfair.
What if GMs teleported thieves away from people? What if GMs teleported or killed people that were killing naked players?
That is the game that they have built. The systems in place now support that behavior. If SV doesn't like that they need to change it, not punish players for playing the game as it's built.