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Run its Course

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  • Gardavil2Gardavil2 Member Posts: 394


    Originally posted by Gardavil2

    Originally posted by jpnz


    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Well, I can't say for everyone else, but for me WOW certainly has run its course.  I've quit a few times actually, 1st time about 9 months after lauch, took a short break, came back for another 9 months and quit again just before BC launched.
    Stayed away over 4 years and came back for Cata.
    Despite the changes, when I got to 85 it was all the same really. Grind faction for gear, grind dungeons for gear, play pvp for gear, do daily quests for cash to buy gear. 
    Just not for me I'm afraid so today I cancelled my sub and am pretty sure its for the last time.
    But of course, for every player that quits it seems another gives it try.
    But you can probably rest assured by now there are more "former" WOW players than thoses still playing.

    The retention rate of WoW has been public for a while, 30%.
    '30% go above level 10' - Blizz CEO
    What is depressing somewhat is that the vast majority of 70% who leave WoW do not play other MMOs. :(


    That's because WoW has never really been advertised / targeted / marketed towards the MMO crowd.

    WoW is marketed to the social crowd and the casual game crowd... and a MMO if it is any good at all is seldom social and casual 100% of the time.

    It is no surprise to me at all that most of the 70% do not go to another MMO... because they should not have been playing a mmo in the first place to be honest.

    An MMO Player should seek out MMOs on their own, they should find MMOs themselves, not have MMOs shoved down their throats by advertisers and recommended on a website designed originally for people to hook up (Facebook). This is what is the real disconnect in MMO gaming... most of the Players participating in the hobby right now more than likely would not have sought out the genre on their own... they were talked into it or felt social pressure to try it out. MMOs should never get it's fans this way, no genre or hobby should.

    As for WoW running it's course... I doubt it, at least not until my neighborhood Meijer's and Walmart stop devoting half of it's shelf space for computer gaming to World of Warcraft and it's expansions.... that much retail shelf space will help ensure World of Warcraft sticks around at least until Blizzards new MMO product takes over that space.

    I am the Player that wonders... "What the %#*& just happened?!"
    ...............
    "I Believe... There should be NO financial connection or portals between the Real World and the Virtual in MMOs. "
    __Ever Present Cockroach of the MMO Verses__
    ...scurrying to and fro... .munching on bits of garbage... always under foot...

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690

    Everything loses it's glory after 5+ years including the almighty WoW. It simply is time for something new. Perhaps Blizzard can do better with their new mmo ? Only time will tell.

    30
  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    Originally posted by misles

    My personal experience with World of Warcraft:

    I remember when World of Warcraft came hot on the heels of Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne.  Back in 2004 (yes I was in the beta for it back then), it was so cool to consider playing one of the Night Elves, one of the Orcs, or Trolls.  And really, the game was a new style.  It rang with the Blizzard motto of: "No game comes out until we say its finished."  And it had the polish you would expect from a newly released MMORPG.  And the game was great back then.  You felt like part of the Warcraft universe.  People were polite, helpful.  I was on a Roleplay server so it was like really living in a breathing world of Warcraft.  Guilds were great.  Sure, you had one or two that were elitist but on the whole you were able to ignore them with no issue.  The community was something special.

    PvP was kept completely seperate from the PvE or RP servers.  That I at least remember.  Or you just never heard much about it.  You actually had to work and prove yourself.  And the bad players were completely ferretted out.  Again, the community held it together.

    Things started to change a bit with The Burning Crusade.  It wasn't bad at first.  But as time went on, the community we knew changed.  The whiners that griped about the unfairness I guess the word would be seemed to win out.  Now we had space goats and Horde mailbox dancers (Blood Elves).  The community became more crass and while still somewhat tolerable, started to show its ugly side.  The PvP'ers began to overtake the PvE'ers.  Skills changed, classes nerfed, roles lost, and entire classes being exluded regardless if you were good or not.  Everything became much more secular.

    Wrath of the Lich King arrives.  Leveling is sped up (I suppose I could see this.  There was quite a distance between start and end).  But it was no longer a game of skill.  it became a game of: Rush to the end and get l33t (*twitches*) as fast as you can.  The helpfulness was replaced by: L2P Fk'ing NOOB!  There was no sense of community and people in total became laxed players.  The entire gearscore dilemma became the be all and end all.  Min maxing was in full swing.  The game at this point had become fully secular.  Unless you knew someone, you were destined to never find a decent guild.  Or one that wasn't full of Elitist raiders. And I have no issue with those that like to raid...normally.

    When Cataclysm hit, I took a look at the game I onced loved.  I shook my head at how, to me, the game had degraded.  How the community was no longer a community but a group of "children" bashing and hating, making racial and obscene slurs to people they didn't even know.  The old servers that once were held in high regard were now laughable at best for what they had become.  The game had become something I despised.

    Last week I cancelled my two accounts.  It was a good run.  But no longer fun for me.  As you stated Wysong, Warcraft and I are no longer compatible.

    Rest well, my old friend Vanilla Warcraft. 

    This is so very true. However, I remember in Vanilla there were a lot of elitists. A lot. You couldn't miss the full T2 and later on T3 toons who thought they were gods amongst mere mortals. You would get in the chat how there was a T3 toon gracing us with his presence :D

    Vanilla was amazing and so was TBC. I really have no gripes with it. During Vanilla and TBC I was subbed mostly all the time with the odd exception. 

    WOTLK changed the game. I don't know how but it was no longer enjoyable. I think it might have been that I was getting bored with the game but I am pretty sure it was the expac itself as I played for a month to max level and quit only to return for another month later on in the xpac's life. It was the worst WoW experience I've ever had and I was disgusted at what I was seeing. 

    Never tried Cata. It's too late for me. I played the game for far too long and my short but very painful experience with WOTLK taught me that it was no longer the game for me.

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • AzrileAzrile Member Posts: 2,582

    Originally posted by marinrider

    Originally posted by TheFarseer


    Originally posted by misles

    In truth, it is damn near impossible nowadays to find a game that had the same.."sense of magic and wonder" that Warcraft had when it first came out.  The ORIGINAL Star Wars Galaxies had it.  And then lost it when the NGE came out.  I'm trying RIFT, but...it's a wait and see game.  For the most part I've been sticking to Single Player games until that "magic" is found again.

    This, to be honest. Finding that reference to Conan in the Badlands felt amazing, simply because there were so few players that knew about it etc.

    Also, does anyone have an up-to-date subscription chart on all the MMOs?

    EDIT: Doesn't matter, found one. I think they might be off a bit on subscriptions, though. They can't really say there's a drop, but I certainly think there is inbetween expansions.

    The WoW chart on that website has not been updated since somewhere around September/November.  So really, all that shows is the ramp up for launch, but nothing afterwards.  So for all we know it could be decreasing since the chart does not have that information.

    So before the expansion, there was a huge ramp up in subscribers..  then there was an expansion that set the 24hr sales record....  and you deduce from that information that the game is dying?  ´so for all we know, it could be much higher now than before the expansion´...

    If the chart was recent until last week, you still could say  ´for all we know, wow lost half it´s subscribers since the chart was last updated´.   

  • AzrileAzrile Member Posts: 2,582

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Azrile



    Servers are still full, there are still queues to even get into some servers on weekends.   Nothing in the next two years is going to put a dent in wow.

    While I agree that there hasn't been shown much decrease in either revenue or sub numbers, this statement reminds me of other famous ones, like that quote of that IBM guy that proclaimed 50 years ago that 'there's only a world market for 5 computers'.

    With MMO's like Rift, GW2, TERA, SWTOR, World of Darkness and Arche Age coming out plus some different flavors as The Secret World, Firefall and Xsyon I very much doubt that 'nothing is going to put a dent' in WoW. But we'll see as 2011 and 2012 progresses image

    Do any of those games have the marketing dollars of Age of Conan or Warhammer.  Do any of them have historical MMO designers like Richard Garriot behind them.    Those three games in particular had much bigger budgets, much more experienced people working on them.. and each had a MUCH bigger chance of affecting WOW.  None of them did.  None of them made even a dent in wows growth.

    The only game you listed that is even on the radar is SWTOR.. the rest are just for MMO nerds who jump from one game to the next.  The people that leave AOC, Warhammer and Aion will go to Rift, then they will go to the next one... but none of those games are going to bring in new people.

  • AzrileAzrile Member Posts: 2,582

    Originally posted by Cecropia

    Originally posted by pragues


    Originally posted by Cecropia

    My only fear is that you have put all of your eggs into one basket. What happens when that basket (inevitably) expires?

    I will let you know when the expire date comes through. In the meantime you can't eat eggs that aren't laid yet.

    Never kill the chicken with those golden eggs before you have a new decent  hen either.

    It all sounds very logical to me and a good reminder for people who "care" about the industry as a whole.

     

    I can't wait for whatever "Titan" turns out to be, either. Blizzy doesn't release many titles, but when they do, it's often something special.

    However, being someone who cares greatly for this genre, I do not appreciate the current monopoly that WoW holds over the industry. While WoW was a great kick start to get the genre rolling, the insane number of "followers" we've seen for years as a direct result of WoW's success has brought things to the point stagnation.

    Fortunately, Morhaime is well aware of the genre's condition and plans on bringing us something fresh. Then I can imagine we'll have another flood of copy cats for years to come after Blizzy's next mmo release. Assuming the game is a success, of course.

    Titan is going to be a MMOFPS.. think Call of Duty with permanent characters.  Blizzard is not stupid, they are not going to create a game that is remotely similar to WOW.  I think Titan will even be on the ´borders´ of what we consider a MMO..  They will do something different than WOW, but something that can get all those CoD people to pay a monthly subscription fee.

  • rwmillerrwmiller Member Posts: 472

    It hasn't run its course yet but it certainly is further along just because it has been out for 5 years or so. I enjoyed WoW up until I finally stopped playing when I realized I was doing it simply out of habit and no longer had any real desire. I had gotten bored and started to notice the number of bots running around leveling up so started reporting them and following them about and when nothing happened to them after constant reporting and documentation it just told me that it was time to leave.

     

    It is still a fun game and there is a lot to do in the game so for new players they will enjoy it and get value from it but for most people that have played from the start it is turned into a loveless marriage where you still have affection for it but just aren't turned on by it any more. So time for that tarty new game with the flashy graphics.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Azrile

    Do any of those games have the marketing dollars of Age of Conan or Warhammer.  Do any of them have historical MMO designers like Richard Garriot behind them.    Those three games in particular had much bigger budgets, much more experienced people working on them.. and each had a MUCH bigger chance of affecting WOW.  None of them did.  None of them made even a dent in wows growth.

    The only game you listed that is even on the radar is SWTOR.. the rest are just for MMO nerds who jump from one game to the next.  The people that leave AOC, Warhammer and Aion will go to Rift, then they will go to the next one... but none of those games are going to bring in new people.

    Wow, that's replying on an old post, I merely chanced by this thread again seeing it pop up on the main page, had alrdy forgotten about my post here image

     

    We could make it a betting game or e-peen contest, the whole 'my game iz bigger than yours, na na na na' kinda thing. But why bother? If you want to believe that nothing will ever make a dent in WoW to feel good about your faved game, well good for you. Have fun with it.

    Me, I wish for more diversity and variety in quality MMORPG's to pick from, so I want all kinds of MMORPG's to be successful and flourish, and I believe that there are quite some interesting MMO's on the horizon this year and next one, that have more potential to be successful and great fun than former MMO's have been.

    As for bringing in new players, there are enough BW fans and RPG fans around who haven't played MMO's before but who are looking with interest towards SWTOR, and GW2 is creating its own buzz, so we'll see.

     

    Who will be right or not, I guess we'll see in the course of this and next year.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • SkeeterxiSkeeterxi Member Posts: 265

    There are actually quite a bit of older players leaving. But there is also a lot of past time players coming back to check things out. I would probably agree WoW is still growing, albeit slowly. It is natural to grow tired of the game after a while, especially having played it for years. I am in the same boat with you OP, the game hasn't really changed that much as what I am looking for and enjoy has. My problem comes from WoW's expansions not really expanding much. Every expansion uses the same blueprint of ideas and tries to refine them. I was ok with that until Cataclysm I guess, how long can you do the same thing over and over. Things in the game I used to enjoy doing, eventually feel like a chore, and I end up wanting to burn through it in a hurry to get it over with so I can do something else. It was time to just let the game go, no hard feelings.

  • praguespragues Member Posts: 161

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by Azrile

    Do any of those games have the marketing dollars of Age of Conan or Warhammer.  Do any of them have historical MMO designers like Richard Garriot behind them.    Those three games in particular had much bigger budgets, much more experienced people working on them.. and each had a MUCH bigger chance of affecting WOW.  None of them did.  None of them made even a dent in wows growth.

    The only game you listed that is even on the radar is SWTOR.. the rest are just for MMO nerds who jump from one game to the next.  The people that leave AOC, Warhammer and Aion will go to Rift, then they will go to the next one... but none of those games are going to bring in new people.

    We could make it a betting game or e-peen contest, the whole 'my game iz bigger than yours, na na na na' kinda thing. But why bother? If you want to believe that nothing will ever make a dent in WoW to feel good about your faved game, well good for you. Have fun with it.

    Me, I wish for more diversity and variety in quality MMORPG's to pick from, so I want all kinds of MMORPG's to be successful and flourish, and I believe that there are quite some interesting MMO's on the horizon this year and next one, that have more potential to be successful and great fun than former MMO's have been.

    Who will be right or not, I guess we'll see in the course of this and next year.

    Well you can already bar Rift now on that famous list of soon upcoming "quality" mmorpg's that will replace the e-peen of the Blizzard warriors. After FF14, DCOnline and the other bunch of "hyped stand by".

    If you haven't got the catch 22 by now nothing will.

    I also think you address the industry' hopes and feelings more than the average MMORPG players.  The fantasy MMORPG is already being made and it was and is succesful. Having a new landscape and some 2% deviation is hardly bringing in anything. Of course smoothly ignoring the other 90% that isn't found in these "new" games is telling.

     

    You are right of course: Wow simply can not compete with games ... that don't exist.... That's about the only relevant thing that was a constant these past 6 years.

     

    "I want more diversity and variety"  sounds ... boring if that's the case of giving some EXP points to 7 year old quest mechanics which simply were already bypassed 4 years ago.

    If that is variety and diversity, good grief, ... are you IN to get experience for killing mobs and bringing in ears ... for life ?

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by pragues



    I also think you address the industry' hopes and feelings more than the average MMORPG players.  The fantasy MMORPG is already being made and it was and is succesful. Having a new landscape and some 2% deviation is hardly bringing in anything. Of course smoothly ignoring the other 90% that isn't found in these "new" games is telling.

     You are right of course

    (snips)

    It's always amusing when a fan of only one MMORPG tries to reason that it's a good thing if one MMORPG should be wildly successful and all others should fail.

    However, real MMORPG fans in contrast to fans of only one MMORPG - could ppl like that seriously be considered 'MMORPG gamers' let alone 'MMORPG fans'? I wonder - like it when a lot more of all kinds of MMORPG's flourish.

     

    Maybe some people could only have fun in one MMORPG, like WoW. I feel sad for them, it's like music fans who can only enjoy 1 type of music, or sports fans who can only enjoy the games of 1 club, their favorite one. Such a narrow, limited taste.

    Me, I had a great time in EQ, GW, Planetside, EQ2, WoW, LotrO, AoC, CO and Aion. So I'm all for 'the more great and fun MMO's, the merrier'.

     

    As for all the MMORPG's that'll come out this year and the next, we'll see.  I have my doubts as for the longterm enjoyment of Rift beyond the 3 month threshold, but in the short term they're doing quite good with 56 servers already online. With quite a lot of people having great fun with it. Which is what it's all about, and what some people can't understand if it isn't about 'their' game: other MMO gamers having fun in an MMORPG of their choice, even if it isn't to the taste of all MMO gamers.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • praguespragues Member Posts: 161

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Originally posted by pragues



    I also think you address the industry' hopes and feelings more than the average MMORPG players.  The fantasy MMORPG is already being made and it was and is succesful. Having a new landscape and some 2% deviation is hardly bringing in anything. Of course smoothly ignoring the other 90% that isn't found in these "new" games is telling.

     You are right of course

    (snips)

    It's always amusing when a fan of only one MMORPG tries to reason that it's a good thing if one MMORPG should be wildly successful and all others should fail.

    However, real MMORPG fans in contrast to fans of only one MMORPG - could ppl like that seriously be considered 'MMORPG gamers' let alone 'MMORPG fans'? I wonder - like it when a lot more of all kinds of MMORPG's flourish.

     

    Maybe some people could only have fun in one MMORPG, like WoW. I feel sad for them, it's like music fans who can only enjoy 1 type of music, or sports fans who can only enjoy the games of 1 club, their favorite one. Such a narrow, limited taste.

    Me, I had a great time in EQ, GW, Planetside, EQ2, WoW, LotrO, AoC, CO and Aion. So I'm all for 'the more great and fun MMO's, the merrier'.

     

    As for all the MMORPG's that'll come out this year and the next, we'll see.  I have my doubts as for the longterm enjoyment of Rift beyond the 3 month threshold, but in the short term they're doing quite good with 56 servers already online. With quite a lot of people having great fun with it. Which is what it's all about, and what some people can't understand if it isn't about 'their' game: other MMO gamers having fun in an MMORPG of their choice, even if it isn't to the taste of all MMO gamers.

    You see this is about >WOW forums. So why citing 3000 other games in your previous posts anyway, of which ... half are not even published?

    Like always you snipped the most important part of my post anyway:

    "Wow can not compete with games who are not even published...". That's the only truth that came out of it in these past 6 years.

     

    I think there is a difference between playing A game and  hyping and fan talking about games which are not even launched yet and then post constantly in threads with titles like 'Wow has run its course", "We will see how Wow declines", "Wow is done for me" and "12367 other variations on the I want to kill WOW threads" ...in a WOW ... forum.

    ... with the ONLY motivating drive ... to push unpublished games and support ANYTHING to drive "the market leader" into the ground for ... the past 6 years now... in vain (I might add).

    "Quite a lot of people"  = the same 400 K mmorpg hopppers who will loose their fun when the next weekly Wow killer will launch in a few weeks/months.

    As Rift only holds 1500 people per server concurrently (posted and "slipped in error "  by their developpers on Dec 30th), it is easy to see we always talk about that same (diminishing) number of "screamers" anyway.

  • SwitchxASwitchxA Member Posts: 7

    To relate back to the OP's and first few posts, I'm another one of the older-ish players who are leaving.

    I played a little back in classic, but didn't get truely hooked till mid-TBC. Once I was hooked WoW was the only MMO I played. I tried a few others. GW, L2, and FFXI to name a few, but none of them stuck. While I was aware of WoW's changings it never turned me off to the point of leaving. As I started into Cata I started to feel a small sense of boredom and strain grow. Here I was level 80 doing the same quests over and over again and running the same 2 dungeons over and over ad nauseum. While this wasn't something new it started to become a problem; which is odd since I was working on loremaster on 2 characters before cata launch. I grit my teeth and continued to 85 to be met with the new WoW way of doing things. After many frustrating nights over many issues I finally decided to quit.

    To be honest, I felt guilty in quiting since WoW is king MMO, where do I go from here? I've discovered a love of sandbox and grinding MMO's and have been digging into them heavily. While I've left WoW it will still have a personal place in my heart as my first MMO experience and a once fantastic game. Should things change drastically, I'll be back. What I'm interested in is why so many older players share a similar sentiment of wanting to leave and/or have left. I doubt one single thing contributed towards this. Perhaps it's the slow conversion from a open-ended world to more highly structered and guided experience? I'm not sure. I have more reasons for quiting then I can list or have you guys read.

    Couple things about topics like this through, I don't think anyone should make projections on subscription numbers or WoW current status in terms of growth or decline. No one can say for sure. One thing I think most of us can agree on, is that as the end of the day WoW will go and still do well. Eventually it will fall from grace due a number of factors that I'm sure none of us can predict.

    I really appreciate the honest stories here, really nice to see others share the same feelings. For me, I'd still like to find out why so many are quiting right now. Not saying people quiting WoW is new or different around an expantion, but why so many of us share the same feel at the same time.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by pragues

    You see this is about >WOW forums. So why citing 3000 other games in your previous posts anyway, of which ... half are not even published?

    (snips textwall)

    Sorry, but don't you think you should look in the mirror before you say things like that? You're constantly talking about WoW in other game's forums. So, pot, kettle, objectively speaking.

    As for the rest, that's paranoia speaking: not all people who disagree with your opinion want to 'drive the market leader into the ground', that's just in your head. I don't see a reason for wanting WoW to 'fail', I see reasons for wanting other MMO's to be successful.

    Although, yes, I do see posters to whom your arguments of them wishing to 'drive a game into the ground' seem to apply, like those who keep talking negatively about it even using proven outdated quotes about a 1500 population cap. Tha'ts generally what people do who have another agenda than exposing the truth, using all kinds of arguments, true or false, to support their onesidedly biased case, often to 'protect' their favored game or to bash another game (sometimes those go together).

     

    Anyway, back to OP topic.


    Originally posted by SwitchxA

    What I'm interested in is why so many older players share a similar sentiment of wanting to leave and/or have left. I doubt one single thing contributed towards this. Perhaps it's the slow conversion from a open-ended world to more highly structered and guided experience? I'm not sure. I have more reasons for quiting then I can list or have you guys read.

    I really appreciate the honest stories here, really nice to see others share the same feelings. For me, I'd still like to find out why so many are quiting right now. Not saying people quiting WoW is new or different around an expantion, but why so many of us share the same feel at the same time.

    I think it's a natural thing if you've played the same game for years and with often thousands of hours under the belt.

    Many stay around because their friends, the guild they like and are part of and/or their family are still playing.

    But after years of playing, I think any game can grow stale, at least for a large group of people.

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • MeTedMeTed Member Posts: 129

    OP definitely hit the nail on the head with this post. It feels like WOW has run its course when speaking for myself. The target audience for this game is the younger crowd. This was my first MMO that I picked up shortly after Wotlk launched with plenty of time to play due to life changing events. I was very fortunate to play on a brand new launch server where everyone was new to the game. All of that magic has gone and I just can't keep up with these kids in the current end game. Most progressive guilds consist of high school and college kids. I got sick of the elitist attitudes that comes along with the younger crowd. Guilds with older players seem to be a bit too laid back at times. I wasn't a terrible end game player but it was hard finding the perfect guild match so I gave up. The RL friends who got me into Wow have quit playing long ago.

    I'm having fun with single players games like GTA,Red Dead, and others. I'm still subbed to WOW but have been playing infrequently. I'll just chalk this up to a changing of the guard like the OP has stated. I've tried other fantasy MMO's but they all felt too much like WOW. I might give EVE a try when I get bored of single player games.

     

        

  • xxHanoverxxxxHanoverxx Member Posts: 28

    I came back to WOW about two months ago.  The last time I played, there were zero expansions.  I'm almost 40 years old.

     

    ...and now I'm totally addicted again.  Im really into exploration so its great to have this world thats so much bigger than when I first played.  Yes, levelling is a lot faster.  You get mounts a lot faster (which makes sense considering the size of the world now)...and it's a little more "Fisher Price Friendly" for people who are new to the MMORPG.  But something has really caught my attention this time around.  My brother also plays, so we get some catch-up time whenever I'm on.

     

    But I understand about the rudeness.  I hit a random dungeon and fell smack-dab in the middle of a bunch of punks.  My main toon is a level 45 Orc Mage and I have my arcane missles maxed out in my talent tree.  So I always have a quick-short spell ready to activate my zero-mana-cost arcane missles. 

     

    As soon as I warped into the dungeon, I realized I was replacing someone else who got kicked out by this group.  After the first kill, I seleted need for a Attack-level ring.  The reason is that my second profession is enchanting and I've kept a lot of higher-level magic items ready in my bank for when I am high enough to dis-enchant them.  Well, the first thing the leader of the party says to everyone is, "What does a mage need with an attack ring?"  We were in combat so I didnt have any time to reply.  Then he starts accusing me of just ranomly selecting spells, "This must be his first toon...such a noob" when I'm clearly using my strategy to activate my Arcand Missles as much as possible.  Well, we are still in combat, so I still have no time to reply, then he says, "So Rawlee, just what are you doing?" and then, "I hate when they don't read this..."

     

    I replied, "I am reading it you elistest jackass" and left the party.  Yeah, I was a little angry.   Fortunately I found another random party who were very courteous to the point where we spent time trading items while waiting for replacements to the players who had to drop out.  

     

    I bet that the next MMORPG that Blizzard is working on is designed to "catch" those who are leaving for something new...

  • wysongwysong Member Posts: 13

    Originally posted by SwitchxA

    I've discovered a love of sandbox and grinding MMO's and have been digging into them heavily.

    You and me both, as a habitual non-PVPer and self-proclaimed carebear, I've been having an unsuspected absolute blast in Darkfall (PVE'ing, exploring, and running from PKers).

    I think a lot of folks read the topic, and replied without reading the posts...  I'm not surmising that WoW has 'run it's course' in general (maybe it has, maybe it hasen't) but that it has run it's course for me, and so I'll step aside and let the uninitiated have their fun without tearing it down.

    To re-emphasize, move on gracefully.  

  • fluzzyheadfluzzyhead Member Posts: 17

    Originally posted by wysong

    A lot of changes have contributed to this perspective, and a lot of folks have a firm grasp on what those changes are and why they've had such an effect that I won't go into them here.  The long and short of it is that I believe WoW is losing it's older players, yet gaining newer ones at a similar if not faster rate.  Think of it as a generational swap I guess.

     

    Blizzard treated their long term customers which such disdain and contempt that they drove many of us away.

    Of course, as you said, Blizzard was getting new players and targetting a different audience. I saw posts from Ghostcrawler and some of the CM's on their forums that more or less told old timers to get stuffed and they werent wanted anymore.

    But Blizzard is learning a difficult lesson. Just like the guy who dumps his average looking girlfriend for some hot girl only to find out he has nothing in common with the hot girl and that his true love was the average looking girl.

    Blizzard are realising that they have pursued the ADHD Ritalin XBOX generation who, while were quick to pickup WoW, are quick to dump it. Their attention spans are short and loyalty non-existent.

    A lot of the people I played with in Classic have quit in disgust within the last year. Some of these people had played for 5+ years. Blizzard makes more money in the long term from 1 loyal 5 year player than 3 casuals who play for 1 year and then quit.

    But its one of the oldest stories known to mankind. People get greedy and dont value what they have and only after its too late realise that what they had all along was better than whatever they were pursuing.

  • beheaderbeheader Member Posts: 25

    Originally posted by solocrono

    Originally posted by misles

    My personal experience with World of Warcraft:

    I remember when World of Warcraft came hot on the heels of Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne.  Back in 2004 (yes I was in the beta for it back then), it was so cool to consider playing one of the Night Elves, one of the Orcs, or Trolls.  And really, the game was a new style.  It rang with the Blizzard motto of: "No game comes out until we say its finished."  And it had the polish you would expect from a newly released MMORPG.  And the game was great back then.  You felt like part of the Warcraft universe.  People were polite, helpful.  I was on a Roleplay server so it was like really living in a breathing world of Warcraft.  Guilds were great.  Sure, you had one or two that were elitist but on the whole you were able to ignore them with no issue.  The community was something special.

    PvP was kept completely seperate from the PvE or RP servers.  That I at least remember.  Or you just never heard much about it.  You actually had to work and prove yourself.  And the bad players were completely ferretted out.  Again, the community held it together.

    Things started to change a bit with The Burning Crusade.  It wasn't bad at first.  But as time went on, the community we knew changed.  The whiners that griped about the unfairness I guess the word would be seemed to win out.  Now we had space goats and Horde mailbox dancers (Blood Elves).  The community became more crass and while still somewhat tolerable, started to show its ugly side.  The PvP'ers began to overtake the PvE'ers.  Skills changed, classes nerfed, roles lost, and entire classes being exluded regardless if you were good or not.  Everything became much more secular.

    Wrath of the Lich King arrives.  Leveling is sped up (I suppose I could see this.  There was quite a distance between start and end).  But it was no longer a game of skill.  it became a game of: Rush to the end and get l33t (*twitches*) as fast as you can.  The helpfulness was replaced by: L2P Fk'ing NOOB!  There was no sense of community and people in total became laxed players.  The entire gearscore dilemma became the be all and end all.  Min maxing was in full swing.  The game at this point had become fully secular.  Unless you knew someone, you were destined to never find a decent guild.  Or one that wasn't full of Elitist raiders. And I have no issue with those that like to raid...normally.

    When Cataclysm hit, I took a look at the game I onced loved.  I shook my head at how, to me, the game had degraded.  How the community was no longer a community but a group of "children" bashing and hating, making racial and obscene slurs to people they didn't even know.  The old servers that once were held in high regard were now laughable at best for what they had become.  The game had become something I despised.

    Last week I cancelled my two accounts.  It was a good run.  But no longer fun for me.  As you stated Wysong, Warcraft and I are no longer compatible.

    Rest well, my old friend Vanilla Warcraft. 

     This whole post sums up what happened to WoW better than anything else I've ever read, especially the highlighted sentence hits a major problem on the head.

     

    Totally and completely agreed.

     

    But you know times have changed on the internet. Back in 1997 getting an online game of Command and Conquer usually meant getting a polite and skilled opponent. Sadly, in almost any game, you will not find this anymore.

     

    There's been a cultural shift. The people playing games these days are not just IT folks, University people, and high-IQ early adopters. Now, people who sleep with their cousins have internet access. Figure what you get from them?

     

    What you get from them is what you are getting from them. Ever watch some of the "tech geniuses" giving out advice on many of the "official" game forums. It's scary.

     

    I've been trying to stay ahead by only playing titles that need really fast and expensive hardware, or a really big brain. The fast hardware requirement keeps people off for a year or so who do not have decent equipment. The complexity issue scares off lower lifeforms.

     

    I left WoW 2 years ago. Barrens chat was too much for me.

  • doubleEXPdoubleEXP Member Posts: 3

    I was about to quit, two weeks ago.  But somehow I came across some topics about the large and vibrant level 70 exp-off community.  That intriqued me for some reason.  All of my characters were 80 or 85, well, except for one 68 priest.  Long-story-short, I decided to level that priest to 70 and then turn off exp for 10g.  So I did.

    First of all, I've always enjoyed pvp, but I found pvp in Cata at 85 to be miserable.  Too many bots, too many afk'ers, too many "just let them win" people and too many "u pplz sucks" people.  Just not fun.

    On the other hand, at 70 in the exp-off BG's, there are not bots.  Everyone plays to win.  There are no afk'ers.  And the nerd rage is, without exaggeration, about 99% less.  People are there because they want to pvp and because they might also want to focus on TBC endgame (and early LK stuff).  It's a completely different mindset than 85-endgame and it's a far larger group of players than I would have dreamed.  I get queues in 0-4 minutes.  People are friendly.  There's a real sense of fellowship with my fellow Alliance players, and a real sense of rivalry with the Horde players.  (My priest is a night elf).

    It's so much fun that I only log into my 85's for their professions (dis/enchanter mostly).  Otherwise I've been playing my 70 non-stop since discovering this hidden little facet of the game.  It's nice because you get off the gear-treadmill very quickly.  It takes, maybe, 3000 total honor to get yourself in full Brutal Glad with Guardian offsets.  And then that's it: you're done with gear-grinding, forever.  Doesn't mean there aren't things to strive for.  Doing 70 raids at 70 is fun, and provides alternative gearing options.  And for the times you want to solo, the 1-70 world (plus significant chunks of Northrend) provide many options.

    Anyway, my entire point is this:  NOT playing at 85-endgame, but instead locking in at 70, has completely revitilized the game for me.  It's not just the relatively balanced, bot-free pvp that I love (though I do love it).  It's the freedom of no longer chasing the gear-carrot that is (and always will be) the WoW endgame that has totally opened my eyes to what else WoW has to offer.  It's liberating, and it is fun.

  • BrianshoBriansho Member UncommonPosts: 3,586

    I played the Cata trial over the weekend and was reminded of the grind. It also reminded me of the obsessive compulsive quest grind behavior all over again. The way they have the quest system set up in this game is very very ADD promoting.

    Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  • nyxiumnyxium Member UncommonPosts: 1,308

    I played WoW since 2006, and I loved it. But Cata seemed like WoW 1.5 when I loved Azeroth 1.0 the way it was, it was a hell of a ride. But Cata is no way as good, I don't like new simpler Talent tree's they lack depth now and have reduced character customization and a level of sophistication which i enjoyed and now it's 'Talent Tree for Dummies' so that was the first AAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGhhhhhhhhHHHHHH!!!!!!!! The second was when I saw they were recycling their old Troll raids into dungeons for the next patch (4.1). And I was paying for the privilige of their barely veiled attempts to hide the fact they couldn't be bothered to come up with anything brand new. So I've stopped paying.

    I am now looking at other games and am currently in DDO and am considering a Perfect World title or Conan. Or I must just wait for Guild Wars 2 and World of Darkness next year, if CCP release it.

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