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to many souls...
TribeofOne
Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
in Rift
There are to many sould. Im lvl 11 have 3 sould and all my skills,spells, abilites are 99% identical. All these redundant skills that do the same dmg, all share the same global cooldown and i have 3 sets of them..the souls do not feel unique and it feels like such a waste and a fake out having souls points to spend for "new abilites" that are not new.
they should reduce the number of souls or reduce the number of sous a person can use and make it each unique
I like the game... Ive pre Ordered the game... but my hype is starting to wither.
Comments
in a very short amout of time playing, i noticed how versitle the soul mixing can be. i don't think you're grasping how to build the tree (i didnt mean to sound snide there, just in case it came off that way), or what souls work well together. i saw others complaining about this, and looked into it more for myself, and sorry, i can't agree with this. don't go with 3 offensive, or 3 defensive souls. mix them up, and toy around with it. i thought making a warlock, with necromancer, and a cholomancer (spelling?) was very nice, but i admit that afterwards i wished i would of picked the CC soul (forget name) instead of chloro.
were you on a warrior? if so, i think i know what you mean, moreso than on the mage i rolled, which i think has a very fun blend to look forward to.
granted, i'm no expert on this yet. i just started the beta this weekend, and have had limited time to play. maybe your right, but i didn't see this issue on my mage yet.
At level 11 you have barely touched the soul system. Wait until you've put more points in them before judging, and you'll see that they become very versatile. The reason why the first few abilities are almost identical in functionality is because you should be able to use any soul from the very beginning to kill stuff. Also, remember to put the right souls together as another one already wrote.
buffs on similiar skills aren't the same, for example i have same attack as class a / class b but class a buffs attack with +10% crit as the whole tree plays on criticals while class b supplies the attack +10hit as the tree is build more arround consistent damage
the following i cant backup but makes sense for the example: class a= pvp as spike damage is better for pvp to break trough healing while consistend damage in class b could be overall higher meaning better for pve
Pi*1337/100 = 42
See.. I read posts like this and think to myself.. Gee... level 11... complaining about too many options... not really at the point of ANYTHING important... whining.
So you've experienced 1/5 of the levels, hardly any zones, really not gotten enough skill points to have TRULY developed your character and think you've had enough of an experience to tell anyone your opinion.
This is ALMOST as bad as those, I played 5 minutes this game suxxors.
Get to about 20-25.. the world opens up. Have fun.. enjoy your game.. it's a GAME after all..
Many souls have basic abilities that are identical but on my beta playthrough i have not touched the basic spells of my Inquisitor after lvl 20 and rely on unique class abilities since those actually work best. They are further up the trees though.
After lvl 30 you will actually realise the fact base abilities are nearly identical is quite good since it means you can mix 3 totally different classes and not feel like you have totally screwed yourself against certain types of enemies.
That said.. Rift could make the effort to mix the versatile abilities found in all trees with the situational more limited class-specific abilities early on, since for example my Inquisitor is an AoE DPS class which doesn't get AoEs till lvl 20....
well its al fine and good that at lvl 20 and 30 that the soul system and abilities start feeling unique and usefull. However its in the first 10 to 15 levels that most people form their opinions of a class and a game. Im sure Im not the only one whi finds the lack of diversity at early levels a put off. I am not trolling or whining as some earlier said but dont you think beta is the best time to bring these sort of things up. I even posted a similar thread on the Rift forums but it mysteriously vanished when people started coming out of the wood works attacking me instead of my views.
yeah, rift forums are pretty bad, i only posted there first 3 betas...
Your point is totally valid though, there is no reason why the begining abilities could not be more diverse, especially that the beginer areas are a walk in the park.
No no, it's an important note. A LOT of people are coming off in either the whiner-troll mode or the yay-yay-super-fanboi mode.
I think I agree with the above poster. Could you imagine having chosen whatever souls before level 20 and then realizing you may have gimped your toon (and then have to pay cash). I think they kept people with ROUGHLY the same lower level skills for a reason but I have no idea why that might be.
But to say that there are too many souls rather than just saying you could do with better skill diversity may help solidify the argument.
You see though that is the entire problem right there, too many people EXPECTING to form thie ropinion in the first 10 levels of an MMORPG. That is where the fault lies entirely. I know, many like to say thats enough but lets break it down some with my lil friend MATH.
Lets say for example, that the content of an MMO is expected to be 50 levels, and take a player a minor 6 weeks to see EVERYTHING (which we can agree is cutting the actual down a lot - but for this argument klets go with it ok). And in those 6 weeks, they expect the average player to put in 20 hours of game time (again very light compared to most games time spent in a week - 2 hrs a day X 5 during the week and 5 on the weekend days). So content wise, to see everything in the game we are looking at a total of 120 hours of play time. So if you play it for the first 10 levels, which takes maybe 5 hours to play (if your REALLY slow and take your time), then you have effectively played for a whole 4% of the average expected time - or basically seen 4% of the content.
Now lets do that on a movie shall we, another form of entertainment in which people love to give reviews on. Lets say we give a movie the same amount of time and review the same amount of content. 4%. An average movie lasts for 90 minutes (just an average, some are more, some are less - but again for argument sake), so if we reviewe 4% of the content of the movie, we are basically watching 4 minutes of it and wlaking out the door.
Now how well do you think the review is going to be? Can you really determine yuo hate a movie in the first 4 minutes of it? Sure you can I suppose, can you give a valid review of it off the first 4 minutes, not imo. How about watching a Super Bowl, its a 1 hr game (game time) can you get a full view of how the teams played by watching the first 4 minutes of the game??
So it begs the question, why do so many people honestly think that they can and SHOULD be able to judge an MMO based on that same 4% review of content? I say they shouldn't expect that at all, I think thats where the problem is, not with the game but with the people who think thats all they should need. And honestly, I'm willing to bet you met with some resistance on the Beta forums because of that right there, and nothing more.
EDIT: Oh and before you go saying 10 levels is 1/5th the content, its not. You get out of the TUTORIAL at level 7, you get out of hte FIRST hub at level 10. Not the first zone, not half the first zone, just the tutorial and the very first quest hub and thats it. And really, if it honestly takes you 5 hours to do the tutorial and the first quest hub then you are taking it VERY slowly.
Because a movie lasts for 2 hours max.
People watch movies and play games to have fun NOW, not to have fun in a few days.
Rawr.
Ahh your right, I will adjust my time then, form 4 minutes of review on a 90 minute movie to 4.8 minutes on a 120 minutes movie. Much better, and far more accurate than my estimations. Thanks for the correction there.
But yeah I agree, your absolutely right, people NOW want INSTANT gratification. So why exactly do they make movies that are 2 hours long again? Why not just make them 4.8 minutes long? It would seem more logical since we, as a society want our fun NOW, not in 2 hours.
No really, I do see what yoru saying, that people want thier entertainment in small packages. But if a gaming company came out and made an MMO that only had enough content for 10 hours, and then it was over - would you buy it?
the implication he made is quite simple, movies entertain the whole time, mmos don't. They lure you with a reward at the end. And that is a flaw. When it comes to gaming one should measure it's worth like all fun activities:
When the path is not fun, it is not worth to be taken regardless of the reward.
Pi*1337/100 = 42
If you have a duplicate skill then just use one of them instead of both. What's so hard/confusing about that?.
^^This. If somebody plays a game and the beginning is boring and dull then they aren't obligated to keep playing because it becomes better and funner at some later point. If the devs can't make the game as fun in the beginning as it is at whatever point it's supposed to be, then there is no reason for anybody to keep playing through something boring to reach something fun. The fun should be throughout, not at some specific threshold.
I wanted to say L2P noob, but im not going too, because its beta and tech we are all noobs, so instead I will try and explain as best I can.
You dont need to use every dot, dd and aoe in a caster build, you pick the one you want, and then use points to improve on them with a goal in mind. 1st Ask yourself what you want your char to do. As an example:
My Main Leveling Spec I wanted a build that could handle multiple mobs and have high survivability, so:
Powerfull skeleton tank pet
Some dot's
Lots of Life Drain
And that is exactly what I can do.
Role 2: Instance Spec I wanted to heal, plain and simple. So:
Deep Spec into Chloromancer
Use Spell Crit Mana Regen Etc from Other Souls.
Done. Also wait till you get more souls, the options get even more exciting, and TERIFYING
If you think there are too many now, then you might as well give up. Trion plans to add more souls after the game launches. Not just cosmetic Souls either.
Which is great in my view as it fights against those who want to try to "figure it out" and label certain builds as the be all, end all build for X or Y type of gaming.
Thanks Trion for getting what it means to have true choice.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
noway, for me they are missing some and only have enough when they add a Monk Soul to the rogue line!!
My only concern is if many combos aren't viable for reasons stated above, dont we just end up back with cookie cutting?
I've tested 6 Cleric souls (cap points at level 28) and 5 Rogue souls (cap points at level 21). All play completely different. I think the OP lacks exposure.
Thats because for you its a game and for some of us its more of a sport.
Does a MMA fighter enjoy the months of training, dieting and pain.... doubt it. Do they enjoy knocking there oponents flat to the mat.... HELL YE !
I hate leveling in WoW.. I HATE IT, but I know that when I hit 70, 80, 85 or whatever the level cap is at the time that I will get to go and kill a 9 headed sexist lesbian demon hydra from jupiter with my guildies, and that makes it worth it.
TBH I think the reason we don't get pulled into the story arcs anymore is for that exact reason, most players want to cap so they can do endgame with there friends. If I act read all the quest text, books, lore etc of rift, then im pretty sure I would enjoy leveling because I would get sucked into the story, like a good book.... but who has time for that, I wanna raid bitches !!!
Actually some fighters do enjoy the workout. I wrestled in high school (wrestling was the closest I could get to fighting) and going to practice was just as fun if not more than actual matches. It's all subjective.
The movie comparison just dosn't work, getting to lvl 20 where it supposedly gets fun (and bare in mind this is a total estimate) would take at least a total ingame time of around 30 hours, could be more if you're running around helping out friends, getting to know a new guild, doing all the quests etc. and that is just totally ridiculous. You want me to sit through 30+ hours of mind numbing kill this mob, run here, do this, do that, oh and here's your reward, a nice bunch of shiny skills and some armour? Then what's going through my mind is that all I have to do is rinse and repeat to get to lvl 30 where i get another bunch of the same thing. That, to me, is just crap.
Most people grind out a day at work for 8 hours, the last thing they want is to get home and think, "oh damn, now I've got to grind to level 20 before I can have any fun OR for my opinion of the game to matter".
Very well said bro. If we could all use common sense, life would certainly be easier.
I played up to 34 and your pretty much right. Each tree (mage, war, etc) have two souls that are pretty much identical; pyro/storm, ele/nec, nightblade/b.dancer/, etc. Many of the late tree abilities aren't fun combat abilities but are enhancements to low level abilities, or have such a long cast time or downtime that they are useless in pvp. I leveled up fast on two different characters using abilities in the first two tree levels, as it was the most effective. Essentially you button mash the same few abilities for the whole game. Only way you can keep interested is if you have 2 builds that you switch to.
If your skills are 99% identical... you're doing it wrong... furthermore, level 11? duh. You've not even gotten the ability to pick up the other half dozen souls.
Try a saboteur, bard, rift blade. Let me know how similar those abilities are.
Shadus