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The Foundry, the MMO feature every MMORPG should have

MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

Ok, I'm not playing STO but encountering quite some articles lately about it, and it seems they have come quite a long way the past year as I see what has been implemented in STO in that time, quite a lot of interesting things apparently, and I like that 'episode' update stuff, I wish more MMO's had that (so far I only know of it in CoX, CO and STO... and the books in LotrO).

 

But what got me really excited and amazed is what I read about the Foundry and saw of it as footage.

A very flexible tool to create content and quests for other players: what I saw so far looks amazing, and it sounds a great thing to be able to use, for those with the time, dedication and creativity to use it optimally.

 

I can already see the best and most popular Foundry content and questlines made by players to be adopted by the STO designers as canon, with maybe some adaptations or changes where needed.

All in all, great job to introducing it to STO!

I hope it'll be successful so other MMO companies might consider adopting sortlike features image

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

Comments

  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,335

    I know of 3 other games that have something similar.  SWG, CoH, and Ryzom.  From what I have read, reviews on such mechanics are mixed.  Not sure it would be a "primary" feature to have in all MMORPGs.  Heck, we can't even get Housing to be a primary feature and it makes more sense than most.

  • Mr_CyberpunkMr_Cyberpunk Member Posts: 71

    The tools themselves need a lot of work. As for the content being produced, its alright you can see a lot of effort has been put into the missions and they're at least much more unique than cryptics "kill x klingons" crap. The missions I have done however have seemed a little buggy, and the descriptions aren't entirely clear on what they want you to do. (sometimes at certain points in the mission the description says very similar things to what you'd done previously in that mission.. it can get confusing when its refering to something different- so content creators need to be mindful of that).

    It's definately a step in the right direction.

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,604

    Originally posted by elocke

    I know of 3 other games that have something similar.  SWG, CoH, and Ryzom.  From what I have read, reviews on such mechanics are mixed.  Not sure it would be a "primary" feature to have in all MMORPGs.  Heck, we can't even get Housing to be a primary feature and it makes more sense than most.

    In CoH I can tell you that the prime problem is player motive.  Almost all the highest rated missions are XP farming missions.  They are compelled by the urge to advance more than they are the urge to create.  And players are rating based on their desire to advance more than their desire to experience good content.

    STO needs to mitigate that... anybody know what the Foundry has set up to avoid this?

  • Mr_CyberpunkMr_Cyberpunk Member Posts: 71

    There was talks about that back during the beta of foundry that it could be used for farming. They eventually went with the idea of having judges checking that content was benefiting the game and not using copyrighted material. I'm affraid the only protection we have is the generosity of the community. Anyone can become a judge- so if they step out of line, we could have chaos.

  • DisdenaDisdena Member UncommonPosts: 1,093

    I'm not all that impressed by it. It wouldn't make the world feel more real to me; actually I guess it would feel less real. The world comes together and feels real if I can see things that other characters have built, but when you see things that other players have built, it's the opposite effect. The facade is stripped away and it becomes easier to see that all the rest of the game is just a bunch of stock dolls going through scripted actions. User-generated content has its place, but I don't feel that it contributes to most MMOs... especially if it is the sort of content that is created by the player rather than the character.

    image
  • Mr_CyberpunkMr_Cyberpunk Member Posts: 71

    Good points there. I feel that we'd probably be better with a series of different alternatives.

    1. Cyptic PvE (have this now)

    2. UGC PvE (have this now)

    3. Instanced PvP (have this now)

    4. Open RvR PvP (really want this, cryptic is working on  it)

    If they did this, I think everyone would be happy. In the end, give the players as many options as they can provide, and we'll have no reason to bitch. I would be happier with a purely player driven game, so I can just piss off from Earth Spacedock and go play with the klingons for a bit in RvR, completely ignoring everyone else doing PvE. They can go off and be happy in their own little world of "kill x many klingons"- every kill I make should have another player on the receiving end. I truly miss SFC3 Dynaverse, I should load that up again lol

  • A_hiA_hi Member Posts: 87

    Actually, other companies that run subscription based MMOs usually have enough money to pay developers to create content for players.

    Only Cryptic is special, you pay them so you can create the content yourself

  • YamotaYamota Member UncommonPosts: 6,593

    It wont work as a primary feature. Reason is simple, your average Joe is simply not good enough to create content on the same level as developers.

    There would be gems, for sure, but you have to plow through alot of junk to find those. Dragon Age Origins is an example of player made content where 99% is junk.

  • PapadamPapadam Member Posts: 2,102

    Originally posted by Yamota

    It wont work as a primary feature. Reason is simple, your average Joe is simply not good enough to create content on the same level as developers.

    There would be gems, for sure, but you have to plow through alot of junk to find those. Dragon Age Origins is an example of player made content where 99% is junk.

    Atleast average Joe makes better content than Cryptic :p

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by Yamota

    It wont work as a primary feature. Reason is simple, your average Joe is simply not good enough to create content on the same level as developers.

    There would be gems, for sure, but you have to plow through alot of junk to find those. Dragon Age Origins is an example of player made content where 99% is junk.

    Sure, but look at what great mods tools like the SC2 or the Warcraft 3 editor could deliver, or the magnificent player worlds that sprang forth from the Neverwinter Nights editor.

    Of course, these were more elaborate toolsets, but it shows what regular players can accomplish when given the tools and options. Just as with these mods, the most popular and entertaining ones have a way of emerging on top, under the right conditions.

     

    I never got to play with those content generation tools like in CoX, and never played Ryzom. Can somebody elaborate what you could do with them, is it more or less than the Foundry?

    The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

    The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
    Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  • nolfnolf Member UncommonPosts: 859

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

    Ok, I'm not playing STO but encountering quite some articles lately about it, and it seems they have come quite a long way the past year as I see what has been implemented in STO in that time, quite a lot of interesting things apparently, and I like that 'episode' update stuff, I wish more MMO's had that (so far I only know of it in CoX, CO and STO... and the books in LotrO).

     

    But what got me really excited and amazed is what I read about the Foundry and saw of it as footage.

    A very flexible tool to create content and quests for other players: what I saw so far looks amazing, and it sounds a great thing to be able to use, for those with the time, dedication and creativity to use it optimally.

     

    I can already see the best and most popular Foundry content and questlines made by players to be adopted by the STO designers as canon, with maybe some adaptations or changes where needed.

    All in all, great job to introducing it to STO!

    I hope it'll be successful so other MMO companies might consider adopting sortlike features image

    In theory, player created missions are the bee's knees.  In practice however, they can be a disaster. 

    When CoH launched the MA (mission architect) system, normal player behavior on the server disappeared for farms created by players.  A rating system had been implimented, but the ratings truly only reflected the farmability of each mission.  In the end it ruined a really fun game for me.

    That being said, I danced a happy happy jig at the arrival of this system.  I thought it was going to revolutionize our genre.  What I underestimated was the average MMO players corner-cutting, path of least resistance-taking, instant gratification-seeking nature. 

    I will remain a skeptic about player created content systems until I see a developer impliment one while avoiding a massive disruption to normal in-game activity.  If a balance can be found that utilizes creative players' energies and somehow circumvents lazy players' natures, then I may very well dance the happy happy jig again.

    Until then, consider me underwhelmed.

    I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.

  • FeydawayFeydaway Member Posts: 122

    One can only hope (and pray) that the ratings system will work here and the truly 'best' missions will be the ones to rise to the top.

    I'm not sure a system like this would/could work in ANY MMORPG, and I certainly don't think it's something you want to launch with.  However, judging from the community in STO and the time this game has had to marinate and improve, I think we can expect a ton of fun player created missions.  There are a LOT of hardcore Trekkies playing this game.  People who take the stories and source material seriously.  I think that is going to pay off in the foundry.  I'm excited to see what people bring!

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