Originally posted by dbelgard Unfortunally, in order to replace the lost player base, it will take more than a few dozen players. --> each ? .. per veteran player ?? Just how many new players do you want in the game ? You will need to help hundreds of players: learn the game, attain skills, and purchase equipment. It will be much more of a drain to create a knowledgeable, fun community than you are giving credit for. --> I am doing it all the time ... and its not draining at all ... its very rewarding. --> Have fun, Erillion
I have quit and no matter what SOE does int he future with the game,i won't come back because of how they treat the community.I even didn't want to post anymore,but one question i wish i can get answered by people who play (and like) the CU,preferable such who have played SWG fo a longer time:
What was it that kept you to the game pre-CU? What did you like in pre-CU galaxies that kept you playing?
Pre-Cu you had that horrible buff-bots,uber-armor,uber-players,everybody soloing everything,dot-weapons,that and such are your complaints(and mine,this needed a change),but nevertheless some of the pro-cu people played it.WHY??
(there are not many things in gameplay that pre-and past cu have in common than besides "beeing star wars")
ps: one post i found very funny,sorry that i dont play anymore,but to think to group my cl80 char with 7 chefs and going on a rancor hunt (the chef's in their aprons) would really be a nice group-experience!Pre-cu they had at least to get a buff and armor,now they could come right out of their kitchens and hunt with me??Is this really possible?Maybe i come back...
There are always the nonbelievers, and the SOE fanbois. Ignore them please. This is not the usual 'people crying because of change and threatening to leave'. People ARE leaving, lots of them.
I used to lead a large guild on Bloodfin galaxy. Before the CU, we had over 100 members (about 60% playing daily to weekly) and a thriving in-game town. Now, we are consolidating. A lot of people stopped logging in entirely, others have put their accounts on Ebay.
Just about all the crafters have left. Most heard comment is that they don't have the will to do anything anymore, because all they worked for in game has basically been destroyed. Resource requirements have changed, available craftable goods (schematics) have been drastically altered. Some professions, like doctor, saw their crafting skills removed and transferred to another profession (bio-engineer). What is left of the wealth of doc schematics (a pittance, really), is now mostly bugged: it does not even work
All craftable items have been capped to max achievable values, resulting in even the best being only a tiny bit better that average. No one is allowed to stand out anymore. For many people, crafting was their endgame, creating the best possible product what they enjoyed most in the game. This was taken from them, and they are cancelling in droves.
PVE combat has, as previous posts already stated, become agonisingly slow. Most of the planets have not even been 'balanced' yet for the level system, so regeneration rates and creature levels are WAY out of whack.
What SOE, and even a lot of players, failed to realise, is how many people actually LIKE being able to wander through a game world solo. There are a lot of people who, due to hours of play or personality, go things solo. Solo, however, has become impossible.
Looting, another aspect of the game many people enjoyed, has become pointless. Skill-enhancements are useless, as a diminishing return was implemented: the more you already have, the less enhancements do for you. Loot weapons and armor are all the same, no more exceptional stuff to be gotten.
PVP is just about the only thing that is still working at this point. Not having to buff before a battle has advantages. This, however, only works for those with double elite combat professions (level 80 fighters, with 3000 Health). Anyone who has less, will have less health, and will therefore be non-competitive. I also find there is an issue with the 3000 Health thing in guild wars: people can zerg straight from the cloner with full health, making battles tediously drawn out.
PVP, however, was always something that only 10% of the player base found enjoyable. That still means 90% of the players is suffering. The dust is settling, people are done with their CU evaluation, and for the most, they are bored. The expansion will be played out soon, and then I think most will leave. The base game is too broken and bugged to stand on its own now.
Will my guild survive? I don't know. I think I have 20 actives left at this point. And I am very much afraid this is the average for guilds right now. Entire guilds are moving on to WoW and GW. Most of my accounts are cancelled, all of my husband's accounts are gone. People are not saving their stuff, as in 'I may be back', they are actually giving everything away - to random strangers, even - or just deleting them.
I still have trouble believing how we went from a game that had all major and most minor bugs solved, and just needed some balancing and tweaking, to this hideous bugridden hybrid. As for the 'interviews' and 'reviews' SOE have been spouting: don't make me laugh. They must have hired Saddam Hussein's spin doctor for this. An IGN reviewer claimed 'this may have been exactly what SWG needed'. Almost a direct quote from John Smedley's letter to the community. I doubt this person ever even played the game.
One of the major issues with the game was always the economy. Prices for things are (were?) exorbitant. And with everything being player made, there was no sink in the economy to remove credits. This always made entry for new players difficult.
The CU was a combat upgrade, and didn't take steps to attend to the economic issues of the game.
Originally posted by genevisa What was it that kept you to the game pre-CU? --> COMMUNITY + So much to see and do + Star Wars feeling. What did you like in pre-CU galaxies that kept you playing? --> Community. So much to see and do. Star Wars feeling. Flying in space. Pre-Cu you had that horrible buff-bots,uber-armor,uber-players,everybody soloing everything,dot-weapons,that and such are your complaints(and mine,this needed a change),but nevertheless some of the pro-cu people played it.WHY?? --> Because besides that I had a hundred other things to do. Even PvP was fun, when done in a friendly atmosphere with rules that did not allow horrible buff-bots,uber-armor,uber,everybody soloing everything,dot-weapons players to participate. Because when I logged on every day I had contact to a lot of people whos presence and comments I enjoyed - both from my guilds and outside and often total strangers I bumped into accidently. (there are not many things in gameplay that pre-and past cu have in common --> opinions vary here than besides "beeing star wars") ps: one post i found very funny,sorry that i dont play anymore,but to think to group my cl80 char with 7 chefs and going on a rancor hunt (the chef's in their aprons) would really be a nice group-experience!Pre-cu they had at least to get a buff and armor,now they could come right out of their kitchens and hunt with me?? --> they can accompany you. Just like pre CU. If they get aggroed they will die just like before, even faster cause they dont have armor. If they attack the rancors, their damage dealing capability will be a joke and they will get aggroed and they WILL die. However, if YOU are good in aggro management they can watch the show. So its possible, especially if you are out for having fun and a good time. Dont expect them to be much help, however :-) --> have fun, Erillion
Originally posted by dbelgard One of the major issues with the game was always the economy. Prices for things are (were?) exorbitant. ---> This varies A LOT depending on which server you are. Servers having seen lots of exploits and dupings have a wrecked economy, yes. And with everything being player made, there was no sink in the economy to remove credits. --> Insurance ? Travel ? Maintenance ? Cloning ? Money for faction points ? Of course there are sinks. This always made entry for new players difficult. --> Why ? On most servers new players are bombarded with offers .. especially to join cities or guilds. And with a few hours in space with the starter ship you can earn hundredthousands of credits by selling space loot to an NPC. The CU was a combat upgrade, and didn't take steps to attend to the economic issues of the game. --> Partially true. But it was a combat revamp, not a crafter revamp. As mentioned .. economies across servers vary a lot. --> Have fun, Erillion
erillion, i just dont know what the deal is with you, just tell me who you work for and how much u get paid. pretty much every time i see a thread flamin the cu, ur there to re-butt it. tryin to make *hit taste like ice cream.
Originally posted by LordMiz erillion, i just dont know what the deal is with you, just tell me who you work for and how much u get paid. pretty much every time i see a thread flamin the cu, ur there to re-butt it. tryin to make *hit taste like ice cream.
I used to think the same thing, LordMiz. Honestly. If you've tracked any of the huge debate Erillion and I have had on this forum, you'll understand the depths of my prior skepticism. And I think you know, as you've participated in some of the threads in which he and I have argued.
Every negative thing I have said is true on Bloodfin. I don't think I can do the seriousness of the problem justice on Bloodfin and some of the other Galaxies -- but Bloodfin in particular HAS been bent over, prison raped, then left to die by SoE. I think the most bitter posters against the CU are likely to be my former neighbors on Bloodfin.
However, things on Naritus are very different. Remember, I am a bitter and really upset former Bloodfin resident. On Naritus, I have encountered not one, but two PAs that are recovering and doing what they can not just to help their members, but frustrated, lost former vets and noobs alike. One of those two PAs is YCS -- Erillion belongs to this guild. These guilds are doing okay and their members are not suffering the same horrors that most of the rest of us have had to endure because those members within them that picked up the CU and managed to adapt to it quickly shared details on how and actually scrambled to bring everyone around them up to speed. This reduced a lot of the damage that the CU has done there and quite possibly will put the Naritus galaxy ahead of the others in terms of population and activity.
But the thing of it is this: This is completely reliant on people making the effort to find and help lost, angry players, some of which, like me, aren't particularly responsive or pleasant at first due to the extreme unpleasantness of the new system we found ourselves in literally overnight. I will still maintain that for the casual player, solo is both improbable and not at all enjoyable anymore. Those who insist that it is have yet to substantiate their claims by showing someone who didn't immediately love the CU how to repeat their alleged success. But with a solid network provided by a CU-adjusted PA, it is possible to play the game without declaring the cloning facility as your primary residence.
THIS is why Erillion is so positive. And to be frank, I can't blame him for trying to salvage a game that has been so good for so long from the utter ineptitude of the company that produces and develops it. It CAN still be fun. But you MUST adjust to the new group mentality and you MUST find a PA that understands the new mechanics and is willing to work together to maintain the fun.
I still wont be playing , but agree with the last few posts. Im still greiving for a game thats so totally lost to me, sort of like losing a pet. Ive been at SWG for a long time and realy worked my 2 main chars, and made lots of friends along the way in game all the while neglecting my RL friends. Go figure.
MAybe now I can go outside and do things again....lol instead of playing this blasted game.
But I would have to agree If someone new was wishing to purchase and play SWG as it currently is, then set your toon on Naritus and track down Erillion ASAP. His passion for the CU game is unequalled so that would get any newb headed in the right direction.
Originally posted by WWIT His passion for the CU game is unequalled so that would get any newb headed in the right direction.
/deepbow
Its not a passion specifically for the Combat Upgrade. Its a passion for the game in general and especially the community playing it. One of the reasons I answer to the many flame threads is that so many people say that the game is unplayable now and thats simply not true.
With a dedicated group of people you can be as successful and as happy post-CU as pre-CU. You may have to shuffle around some assets. You certainly have to learn a new way of doing things. But it also forges friends together into an even better community. Changing game mechanics was only a 2 week speed-bump on that road.
You can contact me as Novarider or Delos of Naritus if you are in the mood to play SWG again sometimes.
I still wont be playing , but agree with the last few posts. Im still greiving for a game thats so totally lost to me, sort of like losing a pet. Ive been at SWG for a long time and realy worked my 2 main chars, and made lots of friends along the way in game all the while neglecting my RL friends. Go figure.
WWIT, I feel for your loss. I still, in many ways, share it. Kephi, the child of my imagination and my effort, is no longer viable, even were I to find a workable template for her. The spirit of the character -- her persona and personality -- the things that made her what she was are gone, an impossility within the mechanics of the new game. I still curse SoE daily for her loss and the way in which she was destroyed.
My lifestyle and relationships in part hinge on my being able to involve myself in some MMORPG or another while my husband and friends are busy either playing THEIR games or fulfilling their responsibilities IRL. Unfortunately for me, there is no other game that has been able to inspire me or even impress me enough to spend either time OR money to pursue them. So I am, despite my wishes otherwise, what I least wish to be -- a captive audience -- until such a time as some more worthwhile company produces a game I find at least marginally interesting and engaging.
But I would have to agree If someone new was wishing to purchase and play SWG as it currently is, then set your toon on Naritus and track down Erillion ASAP. His passion for the CU game is unequalled so that would get any newb headed in the right direction.
Those who have never invested time, money and emotion in the classic SWG will never know what it is they missed -- and I think, perhaps, that they are better off in that. I hope, though, that they will show more compassion and maturity than many of the people I have seen rabidly supporting the CU to those who, like you and many many others who have good reason to feel ripped off and wronged.
Really, had more CU supporters been mature about it, if they had offered help instead of insults, empathy instead of animosity and understanding instead of this utterly unearned arrogance, many of us who were blindsided and destroyed by it might have either made peace with our loss sooner and limped off to lick our wounds or perhaps even found some way with the help of others to make the adjustments neccessary to be able to continue playing.
Unfortunately, too many have unwisely followed in SoE's footsteps and compounded the blunders SoE has made with their immaturity, rudeness and outright viciousness. I only hope that more Erillions surface on the forums to overshadow the horrid impression these cretins give others about the SWG game community. Because I'm discovering that there ARE still some worthwhile people still left playing and it gives me some hope that the community will regain its former dignity, friendliness and sense of cameraderie -- all things that initially drew me to the game in March -- and things that WILL draw others in months to come.
WWIT, you'll be missed. Don't go away feeling as if you've been forcibly exiled, because that is not true. Some of us will not think the less of you because you felt it wasn't worth it anymore. Those who do don't matter, as the opinions of the worthless ARE worthless and hold no real weight. And anyone who WOULD condemn you for being sane and rational IS worthless.
Be well, enjoy life to the hilt and don't forget the good times.
What I find really amusing is, that all people I talked to ingame say the same thing: The CU really improved the gameplay, that it is now much more fun and easy to gain xp and so on. Noone of my guild quitted and some also respecced their toon from combat prof to a crafting prof
The game has changed - but despite what one could think reading through the forums not really for the worse.
However it is quite understandable that some people will have problems adjusting themselves to a more group based gameplay instead of this "gimme buffs and I'm off"-thing that swg was before. But then again - why playing and mmorpg anyway? ^^
So on topic:
I really doubt that that many people have quitted. Some probably have, some just wanted to put some pressure on the devs by saying this but on the long run the new system will survive and proof itself to be a good thing. But the question should be "why did they quit?". And I believe that most of them were thinking about quitting the game anyway. This was just a good point to leave. Because people who really liked the game gave the new system a chance and in almost all cases found the CU to be fun.
If I should quit then because of the jedi-flood. Last time I was in the village there were like 60 people doing the FS quests not to mention the jedi already runing all over the place. Really takes a lot of the Star Wars feeling out of the game for me. Especially those kiddies showing of with their saber infront of the coro sp. I am not really a hardcore RPler but this is just plain annoying.
=In my opinion, it is worse. I loved to go to places like the Canyon Corsairs. I always had the risk of not surviving - especially because Kimogila's tended to spawn there too - but it was fun, had some useful loot if you stayed long enough, and good xp. Now the fight lasts longer (and is a lot more tedious), the loot is the same, and I get no xp (me level 80, they level 42). The things I still can solo, are boring and unrewarding. And just going to a planet like Dathomir to explore has become suicide.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Comments
I have quit and no matter what SOE does int he future with the game,i won't come back because of how they treat the community.I even didn't want to post anymore,but one question i wish i can get answered by people who play (and like) the CU,preferable such who have played SWG fo a longer time:
What was it that kept you to the game pre-CU? What did you like in pre-CU galaxies that kept you playing?
Pre-Cu you had that horrible buff-bots,uber-armor,uber-players,everybody soloing everything,dot-weapons,that and such are your complaints(and mine,this needed a change),but nevertheless some of the pro-cu people played it.WHY??
(there are not many things in gameplay that pre-and past cu have in common than besides "beeing star wars")
ps: one post i found very funny,sorry that i dont play anymore,but to think to group my cl80 char with 7 chefs and going on a rancor hunt (the chef's in their aprons) would really be a nice group-experience!Pre-cu they had at least to get a buff and armor,now they could come right out of their kitchens and hunt with me??Is this really possible?Maybe i come back...
There are always the nonbelievers, and the SOE fanbois. Ignore them please. This is not the usual 'people crying because of change and threatening to leave'. People ARE leaving, lots of them.
I used to lead a large guild on Bloodfin galaxy. Before the CU, we had over 100 members (about 60% playing daily to weekly) and a thriving in-game town. Now, we are consolidating. A lot of people stopped logging in entirely, others have put their accounts on Ebay.
Just about all the crafters have left. Most heard comment is that they don't have the will to do anything anymore, because all they worked for in game has basically been destroyed. Resource requirements have changed, available craftable goods (schematics) have been drastically altered. Some professions, like doctor, saw their crafting skills removed and transferred to another profession (bio-engineer). What is left of the wealth of doc schematics (a pittance, really), is now mostly bugged: it does not even work
All craftable items have been capped to max achievable values, resulting in even the best being only a tiny bit better that average. No one is allowed to stand out anymore. For many people, crafting was their endgame, creating the best possible product what they enjoyed most in the game. This was taken from them, and they are cancelling in droves.
PVE combat has, as previous posts already stated, become agonisingly slow. Most of the planets have not even been 'balanced' yet for the level system, so regeneration rates and creature levels are WAY out of whack.
What SOE, and even a lot of players, failed to realise, is how many people actually LIKE being able to wander through a game world solo. There are a lot of people who, due to hours of play or personality, go things solo. Solo, however, has become impossible.
Looting, another aspect of the game many people enjoyed, has become pointless. Skill-enhancements are useless, as a diminishing return was implemented: the more you already have, the less enhancements do for you. Loot weapons and armor are all the same, no more exceptional stuff to be gotten.
PVP is just about the only thing that is still working at this point. Not having to buff before a battle has advantages. This, however, only works for those with double elite combat professions (level 80 fighters, with 3000 Health). Anyone who has less, will have less health, and will therefore be non-competitive. I also find there is an issue with the 3000 Health thing in guild wars: people can zerg straight from the cloner with full health, making battles tediously drawn out.
PVP, however, was always something that only 10% of the player base found enjoyable. That still means 90% of the players is suffering. The dust is settling, people are done with their CU evaluation, and for the most, they are bored. The expansion will be played out soon, and then I think most will leave. The base game is too broken and bugged to stand on its own now.
Will my guild survive? I don't know. I think I have 20 actives left at this point. And I am very much afraid this is the average for guilds right now. Entire guilds are moving on to WoW and GW. Most of my accounts are cancelled, all of my husband's accounts are gone. People are not saving their stuff, as in 'I may be back', they are actually giving everything away - to random strangers, even - or just deleting them.
I still have trouble believing how we went from a game that had all major and most minor bugs solved, and just needed some balancing and tweaking, to this hideous bugridden hybrid. As for the 'interviews' and 'reviews' SOE have been spouting: don't make me laugh. They must have hired Saddam Hussein's spin doctor for this. An IGN reviewer claimed 'this may have been exactly what SWG needed'. Almost a direct quote from John Smedley's letter to the community. I doubt this person ever even played the game.
Linna Baresi
Bloodfin Galaxy
One of the major issues with the game was always the economy. Prices for things are (were?) exorbitant. And with everything being player made, there was no sink in the economy to remove credits. This always made entry for new players difficult.
The CU was a combat upgrade, and didn't take steps to attend to the economic issues of the game.
Hi Linna,
Solo, however, has become impossible.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
I used to think the same thing, LordMiz. Honestly. If you've tracked any of the huge debate Erillion and I have had on this forum, you'll understand the depths of my prior skepticism. And I think you know, as you've participated in some of the threads in which he and I have argued.
Every negative thing I have said is true on Bloodfin. I don't think I can do the seriousness of the problem justice on Bloodfin and some of the other Galaxies -- but Bloodfin in particular HAS been bent over, prison raped, then left to die by SoE. I think the most bitter posters against the CU are likely to be my former neighbors on Bloodfin.
However, things on Naritus are very different. Remember, I am a bitter and really upset former Bloodfin resident. On Naritus, I have encountered not one, but two PAs that are recovering and doing what they can not just to help their members, but frustrated, lost former vets and noobs alike. One of those two PAs is YCS -- Erillion belongs to this guild. These guilds are doing okay and their members are not suffering the same horrors that most of the rest of us have had to endure because those members within them that picked up the CU and managed to adapt to it quickly shared details on how and actually scrambled to bring everyone around them up to speed. This reduced a lot of the damage that the CU has done there and quite possibly will put the Naritus galaxy ahead of the others in terms of population and activity.
But the thing of it is this: This is completely reliant on people making the effort to find and help lost, angry players, some of which, like me, aren't particularly responsive or pleasant at first due to the extreme unpleasantness of the new system we found ourselves in literally overnight. I will still maintain that for the casual player, solo is both improbable and not at all enjoyable anymore. Those who insist that it is have yet to substantiate their claims by showing someone who didn't immediately love the CU how to repeat their alleged success. But with a solid network provided by a CU-adjusted PA, it is possible to play the game without declaring the cloning facility as your primary residence.
THIS is why Erillion is so positive. And to be frank, I can't blame him for trying to salvage a game that has been so good for so long from the utter ineptitude of the company that produces and develops it. It CAN still be fun. But you MUST adjust to the new group mentality and you MUST find a PA that understands the new mechanics and is willing to work together to maintain the fun.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
What she said ? :-P
/wink
Have fun
Erillion
/bravo azhrarn
/salute Erillion
I still wont be playing , but agree with the last few posts. Im still greiving for a game thats so totally lost to me, sort of like losing a pet. Ive been at SWG for a long time and realy worked my 2 main chars, and made lots of friends along the way in game all the while neglecting my RL friends. Go figure.
MAybe now I can go outside and do things again....lol instead of playing this blasted game.
But I would have to agree If someone new was wishing to purchase and play SWG as it currently is, then set your toon on Naritus and track down Erillion ASAP. His passion for the CU game is unequalled so that would get any newb headed in the right direction.
/bow
/deepbow
Its not a passion specifically for the Combat Upgrade. Its a passion for the game in general and especially the community playing it. One of the reasons I answer to the many flame threads is that so many people say that the game is unplayable now and thats simply not true.
With a dedicated group of people you can be as successful and as happy post-CU as pre-CU. You may have to shuffle around some assets. You certainly have to learn a new way of doing things. But it also forges friends together into an even better community. Changing game mechanics was only a 2 week speed-bump on that road.
You can contact me as Novarider or Delos of Naritus if you are in the mood to play SWG again sometimes.
have fun
Erillion
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
What I find really amusing is, that all people I talked to ingame say the same thing: The CU really improved the gameplay, that it is now much more fun and easy to gain xp and so on. Noone of my guild quitted and some also respecced their toon from combat prof to a crafting prof
The game has changed - but despite what one could think reading through the forums not really for the worse.
However it is quite understandable that some people will have problems adjusting themselves to a more group based gameplay instead of this "gimme buffs and I'm off"-thing that swg was before. But then again - why playing and mmorpg anyway? ^^
So on topic:
I really doubt that that many people have quitted. Some probably have, some just wanted to put some pressure on the devs by saying this but on the long run the new system will survive and proof itself to be a good thing.
But the question should be "why did they quit?". And I believe that most of them were thinking about quitting the game anyway. This was just a good point to leave. Because people who really liked the game gave the new system a chance and in almost all cases found the CU to be fun.
If I should quit then because of the jedi-flood. Last time I was in the village there were like 60 people doing the FS quests not to mention the jedi already runing all over the place. Really takes a lot of the Star Wars feeling out of the game for me. Especially those kiddies showing of with their saber infront of the coro sp. I am not really a hardcore RPler but this is just plain annoying.
:sigh.
Your milage may vary.
:wonders for the millionth time if public schools are even trying to teach modern children anything anymore.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
Hi Linna,
Solo, however, has become impossible.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
=In my opinion, it is worse. I loved to go to places like the Canyon Corsairs. I always had the risk of not surviving - especially because Kimogila's tended to spawn there too - but it was fun, had some useful loot if you stayed long enough, and good xp. Now the fight lasts longer (and is a lot more tedious), the loot is the same, and I get no xp (me level 80, they level 42). The things I still can solo, are boring and unrewarding. And just going to a planet like Dathomir to explore has become suicide.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />