And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares.
Seriously, is the math so hard to comprehend that people who just want to keep arguing for the sake of arguing are just willing to ignore common sense in favor of continued attacks and commentary which has no merit or basis of fact?
And no, I'm not paid to sell anything and apart from...argghh forget it, go read what I have already written. Or don't.
Wow .. that shows a remarkable LACK of understanding of how a MMO entertains, from a MMO developer.
I *do* care how many are playing my MMOs because if there are too few players, i can't find people i like to group with, or not enough to have good pvp action. Is that so hard to understand? Heck, i haven't even got to the part about forming nice friendly guilds.
Sure, i don't care about how many is playing Starcraft 2 when i am playing the single player campaign, but Alganon is not a single player game, is it?
Or are you going to call me wrong and tell me that i should expect to play my MMO alone?
You're wrong. Period. And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares. Seriously, is the math so hard to comprehend that people who just want to keep arguing for the sake of arguing are just willing to ignore common sense in favor of continued attacks and commentary which has no merit or basis of fact? And no, I'm not paid to sell anything and apart from...argghh forget it, go read what I have already written. Or don't.
Wow .. that shows a remarkable LACK of understanding of how a MMO entertains, from a MMO developer. I *do* care how many are playing my MMOs because if there are too few players, i can't find people i like to group with, or not enough to have good pvp action. Is that so hard to understand? Heck, i haven't even got to the part about forming nice friendly guilds. Sure, i don't care about how many is playing Starcraft 2 when i am playing the single player campaign, but Alganon is not a single player game, is it? Or are you going to call me wrong and tell me that i should expect to play my MMO alone?
You've focused on this one detail of how many active players there are total. That's just one factor relating to how many people are playing, and playing near you when you are playing the game. There's a few other things that could have an impact.
Not seeing anyone else while you're playing is an issue, and it's one that most mmorpg have to deal with at some point, whether they are losing players, they have become top heavy or whatever the issue is. The game could just have poor social tools. I have no idea. But trying to call the developer out on a press release is just a waste of time.
But...the only bit of data you have is the number of people logged in while you're playing. That's it*. Everything else is just stuff you made up.
Call them out on the facts you have. That's more than enough*.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares.
Seriously, is the math so hard to comprehend that people who just want to keep arguing for the sake of arguing are just willing to ignore common sense in favor of continued attacks and commentary which has no merit or basis of fact?
And no, I'm not paid to sell anything and apart from...argghh forget it, go read what I have already written. Or don't.
Wow .. that shows a remarkable LACK of understanding of how a MMO entertains, from a MMO developer.
I *do* care how many are playing my MMOs because if there are too few players, i can't find people i like to group with, or not enough to have good pvp action. Is that so hard to understand? Heck, i haven't even got to the part about forming nice friendly guilds.
Sure, i don't care about how many is playing Starcraft 2 when i am playing the single player campaign, but Alganon is not a single player game, is it?
Or are you going to call me wrong and tell me that i should expect to play my MMO alone?
You've focused on this one detail of how many active players there are total. That's just one factor relating to how many people are playing, and playing near you when you are playing the game. There's a few other things that could have an impact.
Not seeing anyone else while you're playing is an issue, and it's one that most mmorpg have to deal with at some point, whether they are losing players, they have become top heavy or whatever the issue is. The game could just have poor social tools. I have no idea. But trying to call the developer out on a press release is just a waste of time.
But...the only bit of data you have is the number of people logged in while you're playing. That's it*. Everything else is just stuff you made up.
Call them out on the facts you have. That's more than enough*.
All other issues are moot is no one is playing the game. Top heavy or what not .. you have to have ENOUGH players before the game can be top heavy.
Now I have been reading that the game has no more than 10-20 people at any point in time. Is that TRUE? If so, that is obviously too few for ANYTHING.
And this is not a press release, it is a forum discussion. May be it is a waste of time but this is the internet and most forum traffic is a waste of time anyway.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by dsmart
You're wrong. Period. And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares. Seriously, is the math so hard to comprehend that people who just want to keep arguing for the sake of arguing are just willing to ignore common sense in favor of continued attacks and commentary which has no merit or basis of fact? And no, I'm not paid to sell anything and apart from...argghh forget it, go read what I have already written. Or don't.
Wow .. that shows a remarkable LACK of understanding of how a MMO entertains, from a MMO developer. I *do* care how many are playing my MMOs because if there are too few players, i can't find people i like to group with, or not enough to have good pvp action. Is that so hard to understand? Heck, i haven't even got to the part about forming nice friendly guilds. Sure, i don't care about how many is playing Starcraft 2 when i am playing the single player campaign, but Alganon is not a single player game, is it? Or are you going to call me wrong and tell me that i should expect to play my MMO alone?
You've focused on this one detail of how many active players there are total. That's just one factor relating to how many people are playing, and playing near you when you are playing the game. There's a few other things that could have an impact.
Not seeing anyone else while you're playing is an issue, and it's one that most mmorpg have to deal with at some point, whether they are losing players, they have become top heavy or whatever the issue is. The game could just have poor social tools. I have no idea. But trying to call the developer out on a press release is just a waste of time.
But...the only bit of data you have is the number of people logged in while you're playing. That's it*. Everything else is just stuff you made up.
Call them out on the facts you have. That's more than enough*.
All other issues are moot is no one is playing the game. Top heavy or what not .. you have to have ENOUGH players before the game can be top heavy. Now I have been reading that the game has no more than 10-20 people at any point in time. Is that TRUE? If so, that is obviously too few for ANYTHING. And this is not a press release, it is a forum discussion. May be it is a waste of time but this is the internet and most forum traffic is a waste of time anyway.
I misread some of what was posted. The "nearing 100,000 accounts" was also part of an article and I had assumed at some point a press release.
My point wasn't that the whole thing is a waste of time, but arguing with Derek about how many active subscriptions there are is.
Seeing a maximum of 50 people logged into a server, but more often than not seeing 20 or less, an unpopulated auction house and not seeing other players in any major area are legitimate concerns. They are experiences that can be documented and actually proven (you could screen shot it). If you really, really wanted to prove your point beyond any shadow of a doubt, you actually could. You can't really prove anything about "active accounts". It does seem like a logical conclusion that if there were even 50,000 active accounts, you'd see more people online...but you can't actually prove how many active accounts there are. Stick to the stuff you can prove and that other people can corroberate.
It doesn't matter how many active accounts there are, or how Derek calculates them, or even if he's just making numbers up or the someone else is making the numbers up and giving them to him. What matters is that playing the game isn't fun when it feels like you're playing by yourself.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares.
Seriously, is the math so hard to comprehend that people who just want to keep arguing for the sake of arguing are just willing to ignore common sense in favor of continued attacks and commentary which has no merit or basis of fact?
And no, I'm not paid to sell anything and apart from...argghh forget it, go read what I have already written. Or don't.
Wow .. that shows a remarkable LACK of understanding of how a MMO entertains, from a MMO developer.
I *do* care how many are playing my MMOs because if there are too few players, i can't find people i like to group with, or not enough to have good pvp action. Is that so hard to understand? Heck, i haven't even got to the part about forming nice friendly guilds.
Sure, i don't care about how many is playing Starcraft 2 when i am playing the single player campaign, but Alganon is not a single player game, is it?
Or are you going to call me wrong and tell me that i should expect to play my MMO alone?
You've focused on this one detail of how many active players there are total. That's just one factor relating to how many people are playing, and playing near you when you are playing the game. There's a few other things that could have an impact.
Not seeing anyone else while you're playing is an issue, and it's one that most mmorpg have to deal with at some point, whether they are losing players, they have become top heavy or whatever the issue is. The game could just have poor social tools. I have no idea. But trying to call the developer out on a press release is just a waste of time.
But...the only bit of data you have is the number of people logged in while you're playing. That's it*. Everything else is just stuff you made up.
Call them out on the facts you have. That's more than enough*.
All other issues are moot is no one is playing the game. Top heavy or what not .. you have to have ENOUGH players before the game can be top heavy.
Now I have been reading that the game has no more than 10-20 people at any point in time. Is that TRUE? If so, that is obviously too few for ANYTHING.
And this is not a press release, it is a forum discussion. May be it is a waste of time but this is the internet and most forum traffic is a waste of time anyway.
I misread some of what was posted. The "nearing 100,000 accounts" was also part of an article and I had assumed at some point a press release.
My point wasn't that the whole thing is a waste of time, but arguing with Derek about how many active subscriptions there are is.
Seeing a maximum of 50 people logged into a server, but more often than not seeing 20 or less, an unpopulated auction house and not seeing other players in any major area are legitimate concerns. They are experiences that can be documented and actually proven (you could screen shot it). If you really, really wanted to prove your point beyond any shadow of a doubt, you actually could. You can't really prove anything about "active accounts". It does seem like a logical conclusion that if there were even 50,000 active accounts, you'd see more people online...but you can't actually prove how many active accounts there are. Stick to the stuff you can prove and that other people can corroberate.
It doesn't matter how many active accounts there are, or how Derek calculates them, or even if he's just making numbers up or the someone else is making the numbers up and giving them to him. What matters is that playing the game isn't fun when it feels like you're playing by yourself.
Oh you also misread my point. I am not trying to prove anything. I am just pointing out that Derek does not understand that players DO CARE about how many are online playing with them because of the reasons I have pointed out.
I *read* from other people in this forum that Alganon has really low playing population on servers at anytime. Someone else (not me) should show some concrete data so players can make good decisions about the game.
Perpetuum had less than 5k subscribers at launch, but it felt very populated, even crowded. WoW, prior to the Lich King launch had at least 2 million active subscribers in the U.S., but the world felt pretty unpopulated in the level 30 to 50 zones.
I'm sure Derek understands that players care about the active accounts. Everyone (even me) is at least curious about it. But he's also right in that it shouldn't be a deciding factor in whether you play a game or not. Let's assume that he's not lying about the subs. We have no actual proof that he's lying or trying to mislead anyone*. The game still feels unpopulated**.
The game could still be headed in the right direction. It's got years of development time left. It's also F2P so it can't hurt to log into the game and see if it's really unpopulated or not. Who knows, if enough people log in to see, it won't be unpopulated any longer. :-)
* I treat statements from the corporate people that can't be substantiated by me as if they didn't say them at all. It really clears a lot of clutter.
** I have no idea if this is true or not. But I could substantiate it if I wanted to.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Perpetuum had less than 5k subscribers at launch, but it felt very populated, even crowded. WoW, prior to the Lich King launch had at least 2 million active subscribers in the U.S., but the world felt pretty unpopulated in the level 30 to 50 zones.
I'm sure Derek understands that players care about the active accounts. Everyone (even me) is at least curious about it. But he's also right in that it shouldn't be a deciding factor in whether you play a game or not. Let's assume that he's not lying about the subs. We have no actual proof that he's lying or trying to mislead anyone*. The game still feels unpopulated**.
The game could still be headed in the right direction. It's got years of development time left. It's also F2P so it can't hurt to log into the game and see if it's really unpopulated or not. Who knows, if enough people log in to see, it won't be unpopulated any longer. :-)
* I treat statements from the corporate people that can't be substantiated by me as if they didn't say them at all. It really clears a lot of clutter.
** I have no idea if this is true or not. But I could substantiate it if I wanted to.
This makes no sense. Whne Perpetuum was released, of course it felt populated....everyone was in the same starting area.
WoW...when Lich King launched...well....most players were at or near top level, on about 150 servers...so yeh, starting in the newbie areas, one was still somewhat alone.
In WoW, typing the /who command, will give you a reperesentation of who is out there. And you're never alone in the world. Do that in Alganon and you'll see that there "might" be 5 other players....in one of two servers.
It's that simple.
edit: And to say that DS "understands that people care about active accounts" is the quote of the year. Have you read some of his comments?
Perpetuum had less than 5k subscribers at launch, but it felt very populated, even crowded. WoW, prior to the Lich King launch had at least 2 million active subscribers in the U.S., but the world felt pretty unpopulated in the level 30 to 50 zones.
I'm sure Derek understands that players care about the active accounts. Everyone (even me) is at least curious about it. But he's also right in that it shouldn't be a deciding factor in whether you play a game or not. Let's assume that he's not lying about the subs. We have no actual proof that he's lying or trying to mislead anyone*. The game still feels unpopulated**.
The game could still be headed in the right direction. It's got years of development time left. It's also F2P so it can't hurt to log into the game and see if it's really unpopulated or not. Who knows, if enough people log in to see, it won't be unpopulated any longer. :-)
* I treat statements from the corporate people that can't be substantiated by me as if they didn't say them at all. It really clears a lot of clutter.
** I have no idea if this is true or not. But I could substantiate it if I wanted to.
This makes no sense. Whne Perpetuum was released, of course it felt populated....everyone was in the same starting area.
WoW...when Lich King launched...well....most players were at or near top level, on about 150 servers...so yeh, starting in the newbie areas, one was still somewhat alone.
In WoW, typing the /who command, will give you a reperesentation of who is out there. And you're never alone in the world. Do that in Alganon and you'll see that there "might" be 5 other players....in one of two servers.
It's that simple.
edit: And to say that DS "understands that people care about active accounts" is the quote of the year. Have you read some of his comments?
Exactly.
Here is a DIRECT QUOTE FROM DS:
"And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares."
He said "Nobody cares" .. a direct contradiction to "understands that people care about active accounts". Plus, all the other considerations (like empty early zones) are MOOT if the whole game has only 20 people playing.
You don't even have enough for more than a few dungeon groups. And comparing Alganon pop & WOW population is just inviting ridicule. I was just in Orgrimmar. There are probably more players there, ON ONE SERVER, than you will see in the whole game of Alganon in the whole week.
This thread makes me sad.. it should be about giving a decent little game like Alganon a chance, but instead it becomes about Derek again, simply because thats what the 'cool pros' on the internet do.. bait Derek Smart.
I won't play his game, because I dont like cash shops, but I think that it deserves as much of a fair chance to live or die on it's own merits as, say, LotR.
I stopped participating in the thread simply because I was aware that i was being sucked into becoming one of 'those guys' that was talking about DS and not the game, and that isnt good. Trolling Derek is a sad little hobby tbh.
If you doubt what he says, just try the free game, it's that simple. Play it or don't play it. These ongoing threads provoking him into response are pathetic.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by japo
Originally posted by lizardbones
Perpetuum had less than 5k subscribers at launch, but it felt very populated, even crowded. WoW, prior to the Lich King launch had at least 2 million active subscribers in the U.S., but the world felt pretty unpopulated in the level 30 to 50 zones.
I'm sure Derek understands that players care about the active accounts. Everyone (even me) is at least curious about it. But he's also right in that it shouldn't be a deciding factor in whether you play a game or not. Let's assume that he's not lying about the subs. We have no actual proof that he's lying or trying to mislead anyone*. The game still feels unpopulated**.
The game could still be headed in the right direction. It's got years of development time left. It's also F2P so it can't hurt to log into the game and see if it's really unpopulated or not. Who knows, if enough people log in to see, it won't be unpopulated any longer. :-)
* I treat statements from the corporate people that can't be substantiated by me as if they didn't say them at all. It really clears a lot of clutter.
** I have no idea if this is true or not. But I could substantiate it if I wanted to.
This makes no sense. Whne Perpetuum was released, of course it felt populated....everyone was in the same starting area. WoW...when Lich King launched...well....most players were at or near top level, on about 150 servers...so yeh, starting in the newbie areas, one was still somewhat alone. In WoW, typing the /who command, will give you a reperesentation of who is out there. And you're never alone in the world. Do that in Alganon and you'll see that there "might" be 5 other players....in one of two servers. It's that simple. edit: And to say that DS "understands that people care about active accounts" is the quote of the year. Have you read some of his comments?
Exactly. Here is a DIRECT QUOTE FROM DS: "And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares." He said "Nobody cares" .. a direct contradiction to "understands that people care about active accounts". Plus, all the other considerations (like empty early zones) are MOOT if the whole game has only 20 people playing. You don't even have enough for more than a few dungeon groups. And comparing Alganon pop & WOW population is just inviting ridicule. I was just in Orgrimmar. There are probably more players there, ON ONE SERVER, than you will see in the whole game of Alganon in the whole week.
I said he understands, I have no idea if he cares. He could just be very abrasive or he might not care if people want to know what the overall game population is.
My examples of Perpetuum and WoW were just to illustrate that overall population is not necessarily indicative of your gaming experience. There are other factors, and they are generally more important.
Finally, I'm not defending him or defending/bashing the game of Alganon. I don't play it. But if you're going to have an issue with the game, stick to the point - it feels unpopulated. Don't go off on tangents where you don't have concrete information to back up what you're saying. You cannot win that argument and it just takes away from something that really needs to be addressed.
I apologize if this comes off as harsh on the game or harsh on anyone playing, or even if it sounds like I'm taking any particular person's point of view, etc. Like I said, I don't play the game and it really could be headed in the right direction. If so, maybe it's time to focus on how populated the game feels.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This thread makes me sad.. it should be about giving a decent little game like Alganon a chance, but instead it becomes about Derek again, simply because thats what the 'cool pros' on the internet do.. bait Derek Smart.
I won't play his game, because I dont like cash shops, but I think that it deserves as much of a fair chance to live or die on it's own merits as, say, LotR.
I stopped participating in the thread simply because I was aware that i was being sucked into becoming one of 'those guys' that was talking about DS and not the game, and that isnt good. Trolling Derek is a sad little hobby tbh.
If you doubt what he says, just try the free game, it's that simple. Play it or don't play it. These ongoing threads provoking him into response are pathetic.
Thats kind of one of the things holding Alganon back: the fact that Derek Smart is involved in it. Its kind of like how people hate the Alone in the Dark movie for many reasons, but above all it was because Uwe Boll was involved.
Whoa, whoa... Whoa... This game still exists, or did i really just necro a thread. Anyways...
I just don't like Derek Smart. I won't list my reasons why on the public forums, just in case i do get banned for trolling him. Which, i wish i really could do right about now. If you go to various websites, that are about free mmorpgs, or mmorpgs in general. You will hear a lot of trash talk going around about this game. I'm not here to say it is, or it isn't. I'm just posting, cause this makes me laugh. Yes, you could call me evil. To derek: If you want me to know why i dislike you, please feel free to PM me, so i can troll you. It'd be a really great pleasure if i could. Anyways... Back to the game. If you think it's moving in the right direction. Good for you, but for me... I won't even bother with this game. Not because of what I think of it, Just because Derek Smart runs the whole damn thing. Most of the comment's i've read from Derek have been nothing, but childish. Frankly.... Nevermind that part. Anyways, i do hope sucess for the employee's of Quest Online, Oh wait... There's only one...
Who said this won't be perfect after all we know what is right And the sounds of bodies clashing is enough to make them cry. You know this cannot be perfect even when it is feeling right. And the sound of bodies crashing echo through the night.
Okay first off this is my opinion and isn't against anyone in particular (though this case is what brought the idea up,however it's more so if this ever happened in any case.
First off i have no problem with the general populace posting on a forum, we do it all the time
I have no problem with devs posting offical info on a game forum, thats what they are there for.
I have only a slight problem with other people arguing with other people, thats a part of the forum
I do however have a problem when one of the game leaders comes on the forums and start acting like a normal forum poster and trying to argue points of the game. (i know already that dev are people just to be clear)
It's not so much that they aren't people as i pointed out above, it just seems to me that devs and co owners are suppose to be above the normal debates of the masses. To me all they are suppose to do is post their game, point out the features, and thats it.
If they want to talk about the game thats fine but posts from devs saying your wrong or thats what you believe or things like that just make me think they aren't big time. If they were, they wouldn't have time to posts on forums like this in general discussions, because they'd be too busy developing or refining the game, instead they would have mods or representitive doing it for them. It's just kind of off putting to me, when a dev or whatever comes in and starts arguing with the general masses.
This is the general masses hang out, devs pop in to give the food and we run around grabbing it and discussing if it's good or not. Not really suppose to be here discussing your own food justifying it, thats what your fans are for.
That is just my general opinion on the situation, i actually did buy the game when it first came out, due to it having a good/evil allignment system, so i'm not against the game, i just feel that as a dev or owner, they should be above just normal forum posting.
This is just my general feeling, if the game is a big success, you would be posting offical info and pointing to direct facts like spreadsheets and the like. I have nothing against anyone or anything just feels odd to me as it's not normally done and feels unproffesional is all.
I agree with you I think approaching 100,000 means nothing to me. I need to see actual numbers like 95,000 people logged on in the last week but i highly doubt that is the case ive tried this game multiple times but I just felt alone and thats not a good mmorpg feeling. I dont like that their employes regularly post on this forum and use hostile language to potential customers so even if i did like the game i would of quit becaue of that. Its like if FFXIV had a similar game delevoper I would defiently never think of comming back a game that has a negative rep for their employees actions will never sucueed.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I like the game quite a bit, but haven't played a lot in the last 6 months. It really melds a lot of great elements from the giants in the genre, but does indeed fall flat when it comes to interaction. The sad part is that I think it's an inherent problem with the world design/level design which means it will not be fixed completely.
The best part of this game is their innovation in making a social aspect to the game community with MyAlganon on their website. Very innovative and I do hope they are able to get enough investment for thier next game.
I like the game quite a bit, but haven't played a lot in the last 6 months. It really melds a lot of great elements from the giants in the genre, but does indeed fall flat when it comes to interaction. The sad part is that I think it's an inherent problem with the world design/level design which means it will not be fixed completely.
The best part of this game is their innovation in making a social aspect to the game community with MyAlganon on their website. Very innovative and I do hope they are able to get enough investment for thier next game.
If this game doesnt make money there wont be a next game.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I'm afraid that I have to disagree with your blanket statement about this game needing to make money in order for another to come along. It's a much more complicated matter than the performance of one game, especially their first. The management has been replaced and the project is being worked on.
You might be right, but I doubt that it's due to your understanding of the inner workings of a development studio and it's financial backing. If this company didn't have some new life by now, the plug would have already been pulled. I hope they are in the process of taking the next steps and not in the process of selling off assets.
I'm afraid that I have to disagree with your blanket statement about this game needing to make money in order for another to come along. It's a much more complicated matter than the performance of one game, especially their first. The management has been replaced and the project is being worked on.
You might be right, but I doubt that it's due to your understanding of the inner workings of a development studio and it's financial backing. If this company didn't have some new life by now, the plug would have already been pulled. I hope they are in the process of taking the next steps and not in the process of selling off assets.
Im not saying the game isnt making money im saying if this game fails the next one wouldnt be much better because getting finical backing when your only experience in the market is a failed game would be extremely difficult. Also most of the good programmers would probably jump ship.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I was online 13 hours yesterday in the elf starting zone i ran into 4 players total and saw 2 ppl post something in chat. Had to check the news to make sure that a nuclear war didn't break out. Oh and my client crashed 7 times during this time
I like the game quite a bit, but haven't played a lot in the last 6 months. It really melds a lot of great elements from the giants in the genre, but does indeed fall flat when it comes to interaction. The sad part is that I think it's an inherent problem with the world design/level design which means it will not be fixed completely.
The best part of this game is their innovation in making a social aspect to the game community with MyAlganon on their website. Very innovative and I do hope they are able to get enough investment for thier next game.
If this game doesnt make money there wont be a next game.
No big loss if there isn't another MMO from this company or DS.
There are plenty of other upcoming MMOs (Warhammer 40k, TOR, GW2, ....) ... any of those sounds 100x better than this game anyway.
I'm afraid that I have to disagree with your blanket statement about this game needing to make money in order for another to come along. It's a much more complicated matter than the performance of one game, especially their first. The management has been replaced and the project is being worked on.
You might be right, but I doubt that it's due to your understanding of the inner workings of a development studio and it's financial backing. If this company didn't have some new life by now, the plug would have already been pulled. I hope they are in the process of taking the next steps and not in the process of selling off assets.
Im not saying the game isnt making money im saying if this game fails the next one wouldnt be much better because getting finical backing when your only experience in the market is a failed game would be extremely difficult. Also most of the good programmers would probably jump ship.
Sorry, but as someone already stated, that's just not how it works. At all.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
I'm in agreement with Derek Smart.........I'm pretty sure that's the final sign of the impending apocalypse.
In all seriousness, just fired Alganon up again today and I am once again blown away by the polish. It's not a huge world, or at least it doesn't feel that way, but it has some great details. I am looking forward to what the company has to offer next time with lessons learned and a new team.
I am looking forward to what the company has to offer next time with lessons learned and a new team.
...and you won't have to wait very long.;)
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
While I'm sure you won't care to divulge that here and now, can we expect a press release in the next 30 days?
Yes. And not just a press release.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
Comments
Wow .. that shows a remarkable LACK of understanding of how a MMO entertains, from a MMO developer.
I *do* care how many are playing my MMOs because if there are too few players, i can't find people i like to group with, or not enough to have good pvp action. Is that so hard to understand? Heck, i haven't even got to the part about forming nice friendly guilds.
Sure, i don't care about how many is playing Starcraft 2 when i am playing the single player campaign, but Alganon is not a single player game, is it?
Or are you going to call me wrong and tell me that i should expect to play my MMO alone?
You've focused on this one detail of how many active players there are total. That's just one factor relating to how many people are playing, and playing near you when you are playing the game. There's a few other things that could have an impact.
Not seeing anyone else while you're playing is an issue, and it's one that most mmorpg have to deal with at some point, whether they are losing players, they have become top heavy or whatever the issue is. The game could just have poor social tools. I have no idea. But trying to call the developer out on a press release is just a waste of time.
But...the only bit of data you have is the number of people logged in while you're playing. That's it*. Everything else is just stuff you made up.
Call them out on the facts you have. That's more than enough*.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
All other issues are moot is no one is playing the game. Top heavy or what not .. you have to have ENOUGH players before the game can be top heavy.
Now I have been reading that the game has no more than 10-20 people at any point in time. Is that TRUE? If so, that is obviously too few for ANYTHING.
And this is not a press release, it is a forum discussion. May be it is a waste of time but this is the internet and most forum traffic is a waste of time anyway.
You're wrong. Period.
And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares.
Seriously, is the math so hard to comprehend that people who just want to keep arguing for the sake of arguing are just willing to ignore common sense in favor of continued attacks and commentary which has no merit or basis of fact?
And no, I'm not paid to sell anything and apart from...argghh forget it, go read what I have already written. Or don't.
Wow .. that shows a remarkable LACK of understanding of how a MMO entertains, from a MMO developer.
I *do* care how many are playing my MMOs because if there are too few players, i can't find people i like to group with, or not enough to have good pvp action. Is that so hard to understand? Heck, i haven't even got to the part about forming nice friendly guilds.
Sure, i don't care about how many is playing Starcraft 2 when i am playing the single player campaign, but Alganon is not a single player game, is it?
Or are you going to call me wrong and tell me that i should expect to play my MMO alone?
You've focused on this one detail of how many active players there are total. That's just one factor relating to how many people are playing, and playing near you when you are playing the game. There's a few other things that could have an impact.
Not seeing anyone else while you're playing is an issue, and it's one that most mmorpg have to deal with at some point, whether they are losing players, they have become top heavy or whatever the issue is. The game could just have poor social tools. I have no idea. But trying to call the developer out on a press release is just a waste of time.
But...the only bit of data you have is the number of people logged in while you're playing. That's it*. Everything else is just stuff you made up.
Call them out on the facts you have. That's more than enough*.
All other issues are moot is no one is playing the game. Top heavy or what not .. you have to have ENOUGH players before the game can be top heavy.
Now I have been reading that the game has no more than 10-20 people at any point in time. Is that TRUE? If so, that is obviously too few for ANYTHING.
And this is not a press release, it is a forum discussion. May be it is a waste of time but this is the internet and most forum traffic is a waste of time anyway.
I misread some of what was posted. The "nearing 100,000 accounts" was also part of an article and I had assumed at some point a press release.
My point wasn't that the whole thing is a waste of time, but arguing with Derek about how many active subscriptions there are is.
Seeing a maximum of 50 people logged into a server, but more often than not seeing 20 or less, an unpopulated auction house and not seeing other players in any major area are legitimate concerns. They are experiences that can be documented and actually proven (you could screen shot it). If you really, really wanted to prove your point beyond any shadow of a doubt, you actually could. You can't really prove anything about "active accounts". It does seem like a logical conclusion that if there were even 50,000 active accounts, you'd see more people online...but you can't actually prove how many active accounts there are. Stick to the stuff you can prove and that other people can corroberate.
It doesn't matter how many active accounts there are, or how Derek calculates them, or even if he's just making numbers up or the someone else is making the numbers up and giving them to him. What matters is that playing the game isn't fun when it feels like you're playing by yourself.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Oh you also misread my point. I am not trying to prove anything. I am just pointing out that Derek does not understand that players DO CARE about how many are online playing with them because of the reasons I have pointed out.
I *read* from other people in this forum that Alganon has really low playing population on servers at anytime. Someone else (not me) should show some concrete data so players can make good decisions about the game.
Perpetuum had less than 5k subscribers at launch, but it felt very populated, even crowded. WoW, prior to the Lich King launch had at least 2 million active subscribers in the U.S., but the world felt pretty unpopulated in the level 30 to 50 zones.
I'm sure Derek understands that players care about the active accounts. Everyone (even me) is at least curious about it. But he's also right in that it shouldn't be a deciding factor in whether you play a game or not. Let's assume that he's not lying about the subs. We have no actual proof that he's lying or trying to mislead anyone*. The game still feels unpopulated**.
The game could still be headed in the right direction. It's got years of development time left. It's also F2P so it can't hurt to log into the game and see if it's really unpopulated or not. Who knows, if enough people log in to see, it won't be unpopulated any longer. :-)
* I treat statements from the corporate people that can't be substantiated by me as if they didn't say them at all. It really clears a lot of clutter.
** I have no idea if this is true or not. But I could substantiate it if I wanted to.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
This makes no sense. Whne Perpetuum was released, of course it felt populated....everyone was in the same starting area.
WoW...when Lich King launched...well....most players were at or near top level, on about 150 servers...so yeh, starting in the newbie areas, one was still somewhat alone.
In WoW, typing the /who command, will give you a reperesentation of who is out there. And you're never alone in the world. Do that in Alganon and you'll see that there "might" be 5 other players....in one of two servers.
It's that simple.
edit: And to say that DS "understands that people care about active accounts" is the quote of the year. Have you read some of his comments?
Exactly.
Here is a DIRECT QUOTE FROM DS:
"And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares."
He said "Nobody cares" .. a direct contradiction to "understands that people care about active accounts". Plus, all the other considerations (like empty early zones) are MOOT if the whole game has only 20 people playing.
You don't even have enough for more than a few dungeon groups. And comparing Alganon pop & WOW population is just inviting ridicule. I was just in Orgrimmar. There are probably more players there, ON ONE SERVER, than you will see in the whole game of Alganon in the whole week.
This thread makes me sad.. it should be about giving a decent little game like Alganon a chance, but instead it becomes about Derek again, simply because thats what the 'cool pros' on the internet do.. bait Derek Smart.
I won't play his game, because I dont like cash shops, but I think that it deserves as much of a fair chance to live or die on it's own merits as, say, LotR.
I stopped participating in the thread simply because I was aware that i was being sucked into becoming one of 'those guys' that was talking about DS and not the game, and that isnt good. Trolling Derek is a sad little hobby tbh.
If you doubt what he says, just try the free game, it's that simple. Play it or don't play it. These ongoing threads provoking him into response are pathetic.
This makes no sense. Whne Perpetuum was released, of course it felt populated....everyone was in the same starting area.
WoW...when Lich King launched...well....most players were at or near top level, on about 150 servers...so yeh, starting in the newbie areas, one was still somewhat alone.
In WoW, typing the /who command, will give you a reperesentation of who is out there. And you're never alone in the world. Do that in Alganon and you'll see that there "might" be 5 other players....in one of two servers.
It's that simple.
edit: And to say that DS "understands that people care about active accounts" is the quote of the year. Have you read some of his comments?
Exactly.
Here is a DIRECT QUOTE FROM DS:
"And if you actually READ what I wrote, you will see that we have various metrics. Even if we counted lifetime accounts, what exactly is the problem if we're happy with our numbers and metrics? Whether you have 10K or 100K active accounts, the only relevancy is in if you are actually making money. So it really doesn't matter if only 1K played the game in any one month. Nobody cares."
He said "Nobody cares" .. a direct contradiction to "understands that people care about active accounts". Plus, all the other considerations (like empty early zones) are MOOT if the whole game has only 20 people playing.
You don't even have enough for more than a few dungeon groups. And comparing Alganon pop & WOW population is just inviting ridicule. I was just in Orgrimmar. There are probably more players there, ON ONE SERVER, than you will see in the whole game of Alganon in the whole week.
I said he understands, I have no idea if he cares. He could just be very abrasive or he might not care if people want to know what the overall game population is.
My examples of Perpetuum and WoW were just to illustrate that overall population is not necessarily indicative of your gaming experience. There are other factors, and they are generally more important.
Finally, I'm not defending him or defending/bashing the game of Alganon. I don't play it. But if you're going to have an issue with the game, stick to the point - it feels unpopulated. Don't go off on tangents where you don't have concrete information to back up what you're saying. You cannot win that argument and it just takes away from something that really needs to be addressed.
I apologize if this comes off as harsh on the game or harsh on anyone playing, or even if it sounds like I'm taking any particular person's point of view, etc. Like I said, I don't play the game and it really could be headed in the right direction. If so, maybe it's time to focus on how populated the game feels.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Thats kind of one of the things holding Alganon back: the fact that Derek Smart is involved in it. Its kind of like how people hate the Alone in the Dark movie for many reasons, but above all it was because Uwe Boll was involved.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Whoa, whoa... Whoa... This game still exists, or did i really just necro a thread. Anyways...
I just don't like Derek Smart. I won't list my reasons why on the public forums, just in case i do get banned for trolling him. Which, i wish i really could do right about now. If you go to various websites, that are about free mmorpgs, or mmorpgs in general. You will hear a lot of trash talk going around about this game. I'm not here to say it is, or it isn't. I'm just posting, cause this makes me laugh. Yes, you could call me evil. To derek: If you want me to know why i dislike you, please feel free to PM me, so i can troll you. It'd be a really great pleasure if i could. Anyways... Back to the game. If you think it's moving in the right direction. Good for you, but for me... I won't even bother with this game. Not because of what I think of it, Just because Derek Smart runs the whole damn thing. Most of the comment's i've read from Derek have been nothing, but childish. Frankly.... Nevermind that part. Anyways, i do hope sucess for the employee's of Quest Online, Oh wait... There's only one...
Who said this won't be perfect after all we know what is right
And the sounds of bodies clashing is enough to make them cry.
You know this cannot be perfect even when it is feeling right.
And the sound of bodies crashing echo through the night.
Derek is the man stop hating on him!!! Your all just mad you don't have his job...sniff sniff I smell envy abound.
I agree with you I think approaching 100,000 means nothing to me. I need to see actual numbers like 95,000 people logged on in the last week but i highly doubt that is the case ive tried this game multiple times but I just felt alone and thats not a good mmorpg feeling. I dont like that their employes regularly post on this forum and use hostile language to potential customers so even if i did like the game i would of quit becaue of that. Its like if FFXIV had a similar game delevoper I would defiently never think of comming back a game that has a negative rep for their employees actions will never sucueed.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I like the game quite a bit, but haven't played a lot in the last 6 months. It really melds a lot of great elements from the giants in the genre, but does indeed fall flat when it comes to interaction. The sad part is that I think it's an inherent problem with the world design/level design which means it will not be fixed completely.
The best part of this game is their innovation in making a social aspect to the game community with MyAlganon on their website. Very innovative and I do hope they are able to get enough investment for thier next game.
If this game doesnt make money there wont be a next game.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I'm afraid that I have to disagree with your blanket statement about this game needing to make money in order for another to come along. It's a much more complicated matter than the performance of one game, especially their first. The management has been replaced and the project is being worked on.
You might be right, but I doubt that it's due to your understanding of the inner workings of a development studio and it's financial backing. If this company didn't have some new life by now, the plug would have already been pulled. I hope they are in the process of taking the next steps and not in the process of selling off assets.
Im not saying the game isnt making money im saying if this game fails the next one wouldnt be much better because getting finical backing when your only experience in the market is a failed game would be extremely difficult. Also most of the good programmers would probably jump ship.
If your going to ban the trolls please for our sake ban the Fan Boys too.
I was online 13 hours yesterday in the elf starting zone i ran into 4 players total and saw 2 ppl post something in chat. Had to check the news to make sure that a nuclear war didn't break out. Oh and my client crashed 7 times during this time
No big loss if there isn't another MMO from this company or DS.
There are plenty of other upcoming MMOs (Warhammer 40k, TOR, GW2, ....) ... any of those sounds 100x better than this game anyway.
Sorry, but as someone already stated, that's just not how it works. At all.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
I'm in agreement with Derek Smart.........I'm pretty sure that's the final sign of the impending apocalypse.
In all seriousness, just fired Alganon up again today and I am once again blown away by the polish. It's not a huge world, or at least it doesn't feel that way, but it has some great details. I am looking forward to what the company has to offer next time with lessons learned and a new team.
...and you won't have to wait very long.;)
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
While I'm sure you won't care to divulge that here and now, can we expect a press release in the next 30 days?
Yes. And not just a press release.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.