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Another MMO Bites The Dust - Cash Shop Stealthed In

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  • Hellfyre420Hellfyre420 Member Posts: 861

    Originally posted by gatheris

    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by gatheris

    Sub cancelled and no you can't have my stuff :)

    and just to avoid the noise

    I'm paying a subscription fee which IMHO gets me 100% percent of the content of the game - i don't care if the item in the shop is a pink tutu with purple spots it better be earnable/available in game

    if/when the game goes ftp - THEN i won't care

    But... you can get a pet dog in the game. You also outgrow the benefits of the goggles by level 5 or so.

     

    Did you bother to look into this at all or did you just see exrtas available for a fee and freak out?

     apparently reading is not second nature to you

    please try again starting with "i'm paying a subscription..............."

    there is no "freak out" - i just don't pay a sub for games with cash shops - again, i don't care what is in it

    i don't expect anyone to follow me like little lemmings - though if it would put a stop to this that would be cool as i really liked this game - sigh

     

    running out of choices though - back to EVE maybe until LOTRO is availabe FTP

     

     "lornphoenix" - thanks for that response - - - happy to see someone on these forums has at least 2 brains cells to rub together :) 

     

    and another one "Khalathwyr"

    Back to EvE??? LMAO..

     

    You do know EvE sales PLEX.. Which is more of a cash shop then FE has..

     

    Hypocrits make me sick.. You think a $10 dog and a crappy pair of $5 glasses is gonna do anything for anyone?? But you'll play a game that sales a item worth 300-500mil in game currency (which is a lot) for $35.00 to anyone that'll fork over the cash?? Learn you're facts then you won't look like such a moron.


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    Currently Playing:
    Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    Originally posted by Loktofeit


    Originally posted by gatheris

    Sub cancelled and no you can't have my stuff :)

    and just to avoid the noise

    I'm paying a subscription fee which IMHO gets me 100% percent of the content of the game - i don't care if the item in the shop is a pink tutu with purple spots it better be earnable/available in game

    if/when the game goes ftp - THEN i won't care

    But... you can get a pet dog in the game. You also outgrow the benefits of the goggles by level 5 or so.

     

    Did you bother to look into this at all or did you just see exrtas available for a fee and freak out?

    I think it's more of an issue of principles. Not everyone is ok with or likes cash shops. It has also been proven time and again that games start out with "something small and meaningless" to gauge the shop and if it does well they move on to selling things that do give advantages. *shrug*

    Resurrecting this just let you know you were a prophet.  One could easily argue these 4 new cash shop items do provide advantages in game.

    http://www.fallenearth.com/node/725


     

    FE ATV

    The Fallen Earth all-terrain vehicle (ATV) provides additional protection for clones through elevated armor and defense skills, making this ride one badass way to get across the Grand Canyon. The ATV has 300 more hit points; 50 percent higher fuel efficiency; 25 percent larger gas tank; 4 more storage slots than basic ATVs; custom Fallen Earth paint and rims.



    Price: $15 USD

     

    Badland Rider

    This Badland Rider is a badass way to travel in style. Not just an ordinary motorcycle, it offers 600 Health, 200 Armor Use, 256 Dodge, 256 Melee Defense, 112,000 Stamina, 1,000 Fuel Efficiency and 20 slots!



    Price: $15 USD

     

    Scavenger's Shirt

    When worn, this t-shirt offers +5 bonus to Scavenge, Nature, and Geology, allowing for easier harvesting of critical components and a higher chance to get rare components from the same harvesting nodes. It also grants a +10 bonus to Social, enabling the character to get minor discounts from merchants. Who wouldn’t want to have this in their wardrobe?!



    Price: $15 USD

     

    Clone Psychoactive Shot

    This special injector shot grants +15 percent experience earned for one hour, and is persistent through death! The injector has five charges.



    Limited Time Offer!



    Price: $5 USD

    Also, coming up next week they'll be letting you redeem reward points (given for each month you sub) or pay cash for extrastorage space (which in this game is an advantage, believe me) as evidenced by this annoucement.

    "You got a preview of ‘em on the PTS, and soon you can redeem Reward Points or visit the Fallen Earth online store to pick up some new items!

    Round up your Reward Points! The Weak Nitrous Booster, LifeNet Collar Hacks, additional Barter and Sector storage space (8 and 16 slots) and improved Geology, Nature and Scavenging Tool buffs will all be available from Rewards Merchants throughout the world on Monday, October 25!

    Haven’t collected enough Reward Points yet, but need more room for your findings? Fear not! Exclusive Sector and Barter Safety Deposit Boxes (8 and 16 slots) will be available for purchase at theFallen Earth online store."

    Now in my case this doesn't really bother me, I tend to have more cash than free time so I might actually buy some of this stuff (though 15 bucks a throw for vehicles seems a bit high, 5 bucks might have been more reasonable) but it certainly does seem that the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Member RarePosts: 14,247

    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Khalathwyr

    I think it's more of an issue of principles. Not everyone is ok with or likes cash shops. It has also been proven time and again that games start out with "something small and meaningless" to gauge the shop and if it does well they move on to selling things that do give advantages. *shrug*

    Resurrecting this just let you know you were a prophet.  One could easily argue these 4 new cash shop items do provide advantages in game.

    http://www.fallenearth.com/node/725


     

    FE ATV

    The Fallen Earth all-terrain vehicle (ATV) provides additional protection for clones through elevated armor and defense skills, making this ride one badass way to get across the Grand Canyon. The ATV has 300 more hit points; 50 percent higher fuel efficiency; 25 percent larger gas tank; 4 more storage slots than basic ATVs; custom Fallen Earth paint and rims.



    Price: $15 USD

     

    Badland Rider

    This Badland Rider is a badass way to travel in style. Not just an ordinary motorcycle, it offers 600 Health, 200 Armor Use, 256 Dodge, 256 Melee Defense, 112,000 Stamina, 1,000 Fuel Efficiency and 20 slots!



    Price: $15 USD

     

    Scavenger's Shirt

    When worn, this t-shirt offers +5 bonus to Scavenge, Nature, and Geology, allowing for easier harvesting of critical components and a higher chance to get rare components from the same harvesting nodes. It also grants a +10 bonus to Social, enabling the character to get minor discounts from merchants. Who wouldn’t want to have this in their wardrobe?!



    Price: $15 USD

     

    Clone Psychoactive Shot

    This special injector shot grants +15 percent experience earned for one hour, and is persistent through death! The injector has five charges.



    Limited Time Offer!



    Price: $5 USD

    Also, coming up next week they'll be letting you redeem reward points (given for each month you sub) or pay cash for extrastorage space (which in this game is an advantage, believe me) as evidenced by this annoucement.

    "You got a preview of ‘em on the PTS, and soon you can redeem Reward Points or visit the Fallen Earth online store to pick up some new items!

    Round up your Reward Points! The Weak Nitrous Booster, LifeNet Collar Hacks, additional Barter and Sector storage space (8 and 16 slots) and improved Geology, Nature and Scavenging Tool buffs will all be available from Rewards Merchants throughout the world on Monday, October 25!

    Haven’t collected enough Reward Points yet, but need more room for your findings? Fear not! Exclusive Sector and Barter Safety Deposit Boxes (8 and 16 slots) will be available for purchase at theFallen Earth online store."

    Now in my case this doesn't really bother me, I tend to have more cash than free time so I might actually buy some of this stuff (though 15 bucks a throw for vehicles seems a bit high, 5 bucks might have been more reasonable) but it certainly does seem that the lure of easy money has a very strong appeal.

    Much of the above is the equivalent of spending $5 for a limited editition Big Bronze Knife that has a Blizzard logo on it and does double damage.

     

    The Fallen Earth ATV is better than the first free ATV that you can build in a low level quest but is surpassed in stats by every other ATV in the game. You're pretty much paying for 4 extra inventory slots and the look of the thing... which looks like the ATVs that came with pre-order and early purchases.

    The Badland Rider stats look crazy, so that might be one item where the motorcycle is above what can be obtained in game. It was probably done to get people to start using them since motorcycles realy aren't good for much more than driving in a straight line and showing off in town.

    Plenty of items give Social and Scavenging bonuses. "allowing for easier harvesting of critical components and a higher chance to get rare components from the same harvesting nodes." <-- that isn't a unique property of the shirt, rather just a description of what raising scavenging does.

    The boosters I won't even touch, since nringing up xp boosters makes some people's heads explode around here.

     

    So if people are finding these items to be overpowered or must-haves then marketing did an excellent job because even basic research shows most of them to be nothing really spectacular except the bike and, well, have fun trying to ride that thing anywhere other than out in the open.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • fallenlordsfallenlords Member UncommonPosts: 683

    It depends to me on the game.  AOC had packs available which gave you a whole host of stuff for around £50 ($80) - now to me that didn't seem like value especially considering the state of the game. Ignore fixing bugs and release packs of fluff to just make money.  Focus to my mind was all wrong. The game needed fixing - people were screaming about stuff like storage space. The time spent on the various packs should of been spent on the game.

     

    In contrast, I think Fallen Earth (FE) is value for money and I like the way the game is going. The shop prices to me are reasonable and offer stuff that only gives you a marginal helping hand.  I mean I bought a Badland Rider because I didn't want to be bother building bikes and wanted to focus on other stuff. So I thought pick one up and it will see me through for some time.  In essence I bought it for convenience more so than anything.  Partly because I don't have as much time these days to play as I want. I can in the future see myself buying the odd thing that saves me time.   But if the focus started turning to shop items at the expense of fixing bugs and continued development in other areas I would soon stop my support.  At the moment I think FE can have the luxury of the shop to bring in that extra bit of income, without sacrificing the game.  

  • PalebanePalebane Member RarePosts: 4,011

    Can't help but feel like I'm getting hustled every time I see a cash shop whether its Team Fortress 2 or all the current MMORPGs on the market. I know none of those items are necessary to enjoy the game, but damn it if I wouldn't like to have them, and can't help but think every other punk on ther server has them so why shouldn't I? Still, it is against my principals to participate in such things as I firmly believe this new trend is of great detriment to the video games industry in general.

    Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  • MukeMuke Member RarePosts: 2,614

    Originally posted by lornphoenix

    Originally posted by kaiser3282

    Yeah, driving may not be the same situation as a game, but youre still sharing the road with those people, just like sharing the gamespace, yet you dont see people throwing a bitch fit because people bought extras for their own car with their own money, why does it bother people so much that someone else in a game has something they dont?

    You are looking at this the wrong way.

    It not about who has what but more on how they got it.

     so in a way you ARE looking at others and how they play the game?

    If they want to buy content, let them...do what you want with your characters and let them waste money on ingame itemshops.

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by Palebane

    Can't help but feel like I'm getting hustled every time I see a cash shop whether its Team Fortress 2 or all the current MMORPGs on the market. I know none of those items are necessary to enjoy the game, but damn it if I wouldn't like to have them, and can't help but think every other punk on ther server has them so why shouldn't I? Still, it is against my principals to participate in such things as I firmly believe this new trend is of great detriment to the video games industry in general.

    totally agree... i dont like cash shops at all, even the one in WoW is ... getting a bit borderline..  i pay to play, have no real interest in F2P games, because of the cash shop mentality.. which inevitably ends up being.. buy to win.. i dont think game balance should be related to the amount of disposable income you can afford...  it really does ruin games, irreparably.

  • ShadewalkerShadewalker Member Posts: 299

    Originally posted by Palebane

    I firmly believe this new trend is of great detriment to the video games industry in general.

     That's a tricky one in my view. While on the one hand I can see what you mean and agree with you, on the other hand there's no denying that the one key thing this new trend is doing is bringing in new money to MMO's and that has to be a good thing. Subscriptions haven't really risen in the past 10 or 12 years whilst costs have clearly escalated, and at least with the extra money coming from cash shops rather than from increased subscriptions all players have a choice as to whether they spend more money or not.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435

    Well, I agree that FE is a great game, and personally I don't mind paying for extra items like these to support the game and keep it improving, but I do understand why other folks might not.

    I think in the future all MMORPG's will follow the trend of finding ways to maximize their revenues and it will include hybrid payment models which include a mixture of subs and cash shop items.  Hopefully most games won't go pay to win (and nothing provided in FE give such an advantage, such as extra AP points or anything) but I think we'll see things like FE is offereing in almost every game.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by Shadewalker

    Originally posted by Palebane

    I firmly believe this new trend is of great detriment to the video games industry in general.

     That's a tricky one in my view. While on the one hand I can see what you mean and agree with you, on the other hand there's no denying that the one key thing this new trend is doing is bringing in new money to MMO's and that has to be a good thing. Subscriptions haven't really risen in the past 10 or 12 years whilst costs have clearly escalated, and at least with the extra money coming from cash shops rather than from increased subscriptions all players have a choice as to whether they spend more money or not.

    Personally speaking, if one of the games i was playing had to increase subs - with a valid reason that is, rather than just to improve their profit margin.. i'd be fine with that. All too often it seems these cash shops are blatant cash grabs, whose only aim is to maximise profits, rather than 'subsidise' existing game play, that, in itself speaks more about the quality of the company involved, than anything.. so yes.. i'd rather see subs rise as necessary to cover operating costs etc.. than see cash shops appear for a game.

  • MMOrUSMMOrUS Member Posts: 414

    Get rid of all subscriptions and replace them with "Pay Per Update/Content" and I'll be as happy as a pig in muck =).

    Reward the devs with my hard earned cash for real content updates rather than handing it over each month for providing access to the same old crap day in day out.

     

     

     

  • RiotgirlRiotgirl Member UncommonPosts: 520

    Originally posted by fallenlords

    But if the focus started turning to shop items at the expense of fixing bugs and continued development in other areas I would soon stop my support.

    Interesting thread, with lots of debate covering the spectrum of opinions. Me? I'm somewhere in the middle (he/she who sits on fence, gets splinter in ass!), somewhere between Fallenlords (although I've only paid for server transfer in EQ2 and LOTRO - note to self: why, why, WHY do I always choose the RPG server, then feel pangs of guilt and server transfer to a non-RPG server? Choose the NON-RPG server, idiot!) and Palebane.

    I also think that microtransactions are here to stay - for good and ill - although I generally prefer a P2P model (subs only), although a B2P or F2P model - with clear and coherent T&Cs indiciating (i) what is included, (ii) what isn't, and (iii) full costs for (ii) - could work.

    The real concern is the point that Fallenlords made (see above) i.e. short-term profit maximisation over medium-long term profit / revenue stream. Absolutely nothing wrong with profit. It's whether such profit comes with any added value, or it's just an attempt to hoover nickle and dimes from trouser pockets, until the developers hit lint.

    At the moment, this is all moot (for me, at least!) because due to time constraints, I only play single-player and make a 3 or 6 month occasional check at MMORPG.com. That said, I'll keep an eye on developments - not least because FE is on my radar, but also on the direction of microtransactions and their ingame effects.

    Regards

    "If you think I'm plucky and scrappy and all I need is love, you're in way over your head. I don't have a heart of gold or get nice. There are a lot nicer people coming up. We call them losers."

  • maxebornmaxeborn Member Posts: 148

    by staying you're just legitimising cash shops in P2Play games.

  • BarCrowBarCrow Member UncommonPosts: 2,195

    I refuse to go to Disney World. Last time I went I paid an outrageous entry fee and when I tried to walk out of the park with a Goofy plush-toy...well...the bastard from Security World stopped me and expected me to pay for it. Now that I know Disney has cash shops...I refuse to go back until they get rid of the admission fee. It's bullshit. I like Disney...but it's just the principle. So..booo Disney and shame on you Fallen Earth.

  • ShadewalkerShadewalker Member Posts: 299

    Originally posted by maxeborn

    by staying you're just legitimising cash shops in P2Play games.

     Only if you buy from the cash shop.

    If you quit a game you like over a feature you can choose not to use then you're simply cutting off your nose to spite your face. There are far more important things in life  to take a principled stand over, but each to his own.

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194

    Originally posted by gatheris

    Sub cancelled and no you can't have my stuff :)

    and just to avoid the noise

    I'm paying a subscription fee which IMHO gets me 100% percent of the content of the game - i don't care if the item in the shop is a pink tutu with purple spots it better be earnable/available in game

    if/when the game goes ftp - THEN i won't care

    This

    I actually do not play FE but I believe all players who subscribe to a game should be entitled to 100% of the content, even if that's a pink tutu or a mini pony

    All developers should start to think about offering Servers with monthly subscription and F2P servers with cash shop.

    People who pay montly fee don't like having to pay for extra conten even if it is fluff

  • helthroshelthros Member UncommonPosts: 1,449

    If the items are just superficial items with no impact on the game, then what's the big deal?

    If you really like the game so much you would be supportive of your company getting more revenue so your game can be that much more bad ass.

     

    They know you aren't going to buy their t-shirts or coffee mugs, so they have you buy an in-game bunny suit or mount. Sounds about right to me.

  • Cochran1Cochran1 Member Posts: 456

    When all is said and done wether you paid for it or not, you have to cut the game off at some point and return to real life where those items/achievements mean absolutley nothing.

  • EladiEladi Member UncommonPosts: 1,145

    Goodluck on finding a other MMO that will not have a Itemshop at some point of its livecycle. Most new mmo's come out whit one and older games are patched to get one.

    in a few years there wont be any mmo left that wont have a Itemshop.

    I supose you could go play Earthrise when it comes out but thats a typical game that lend itself perfectly for a flavor recolor your armor shop stuff.

  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 2,100

    Thank you for letting me know about the in game item mall. I was in the middle of downloading the files from the client after registering for my 30 day trial when I decided to look up more info.

    To me an item mall that uses real cash is totally ridiculous in an MMO game. I refuse to play any MMO that has one. I disagree with the previous poster about all future games using item malls. It makes no sense to me to use real cash in an MMORPG to achieve goals instead of having your character achieve those goals. I like having to earn what you get in game. 

    For those that agree with me, at least we can laugh at the ones who deck our their characters with ridiculous items using real cash. I've always been of the mindset that we should all be on the same playing field in game. Sure some play more and achieve more faster as a result, but the point is we all have that option and its controlled.

    Good riddance Fallen Earth. I played you once before and was hoping for a come back, but now there is no chance.

  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    Originally posted by helthros

    If the items are just superficial items with no impact on the game, then what's the big deal?

    If you really like the game so much you would be supportive of your company getting more revenue so your game can be that much more bad ass.

     

    They know you aren't going to buy their t-shirts or coffee mugs, so they have you buy an in-game bunny suit or mount. Sounds about right to me.

    They're selling bank slots, vehicles with bonuses above what can be easily crafted, and some gear that has questionable benefit -- but still has benefit for lower level players.

    They're not just 'fluff' things, they're things that are game impacting.

  • RageaholRageahol Member UncommonPosts: 1,127

    Originally posted by BarCrow

    I refuse to go to Disney World. Last time I went I paid an outrageous entry fee and when I tried to walk out of the park with a Goofy plush-toy...well...the bastard from Security World stopped me and expected me to pay for it. Now that I know Disney has cash shops...I refuse to go back until they get rid of the admission fee. It's bullshit. I like Disney...but it's just the principle. So..booo Disney and shame on you Fallen Earth.

    clever   

    image

  • madazzmadazz Member RarePosts: 2,100

    Umm.... not really clever actually. In fact, it doesn't even apply to this thread...

    In an MMO you are typically role playing a character who has to earn a living. Fight or craft or whatever for what they want. However, in games with cash shops its like some sort of 'God' just gifted you some items without having to work. Therefore, the character that has the 'god' that spends the most is typically better off. Its not about skill or time invested anymore. Its just buying accessories.

    If your kind of game is the one where you just create an avatar, purchase a bunch of stuff like a teenage girl in a mall then parade around in it all, thats great. But I want to play an MMORPG!

    Going to Disney Land in real life and buying things is just your life.

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495

    It's really a shame that those who are against cashshops can never play a MMO or MMORPG ever again.

    Cause either a game has some form of cashshop, and if the game doesn't provide it we know that there are thousands and thousands of 3rd party websites that will offer about anything for about any game.

    Doesn't mean I am all for it, but over the years I started to see the harm those 3rd party website gave these games and it's company's, so I rather have the gamecompany provide a cashshop so in hopes the revenue they get from it will be put into the game.

    But these day's and seeing this topic or similar topics shows that people totally ignore goldscammers from 3rd party websites.

  • VyethVyeth Member UncommonPosts: 1,461

    lol @ "principles" in mmo's..

    If you like the game enough, it wouldn't matter how they make their money.. Point blank period..

    I cannot stress the word "enough".. enough..

    Enough..

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