Everyone seems to think this is the miraculous patch everone was waiting for ...I just think too late SE. If the troubles could be fixed in one patch why wouldnt it be included at launch? Stop taking us for rat labs and test your $hit prior to launch.
Like I said before previously... people look for reasons to strike a arguement... essentially like you are. Sure I think Square Enix thought maybe what they was doing was a good idea... but it failed so they changed it... and did it fairly quick.
like having a bad UI is a good idea? Lacking content is a good idea? Console designed UI not suitable for a Pc a good idea? Ho!! yeah GJ Se you fix one of the 3 main problems that each seperately would make me leave the game. When will you fix the 2 others(there are other less important that would need to be fixed too, like bot invasion)?
Whatever you think there will always be someone against you and they will have arguments whether you like it or not .
However,dunno if it's just me,but in some windows i can't move to left or right (for example,changing inventory to crystals or currency) with my gamepad,i have to use the mouse T_T
It works for me with my shoulder buttons L1 and R1 on the PS3 controller.
Over all, impressive work on the UI. it's fast and feels more natural now. A lot of small things that where a constant annoyance have been taken care of and the game now feels a lot more polished.
Not saying "we are there" yet, but all these little things just added to frustration.
If this is a sign of how SE is going to patch then we are in for a fast and amazing ride! December here i come.
And to those that still don't like the game, please be objective for one minute and acknowledge that this patch is amazing and changed the game quite a lot. Give credit to the work they done at least.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
FF14's beta and release were absolutely atrocious, but I do like how SE has been handling it. Clear acknowledgements that there are serious problems, free months, etc. Better than most.
They have no choice but to do this. Investors and others are down SE's throat to make the game a sucess, because so far it has been an HUGE utter disappointment for HR and Sales due to all that they lied and left out, and cut corners. Ill come back next year when the game will hopefully be worth the price of the game and subscriptions because still, the game is a laughable joke from a PC gamer standpoint since they felt they had to dumb down to us to make it fitting for consoles, which was the WRONG approach..
FF14's beta and release were absolutely atrocious, but I do like how SE has been handling it. Clear acknowledgements that there are serious problems, free months, etc. Better than most.
They have no choice but to do this. Investors and others are down SE's throat to make the game a sucess, because so far it has been an HUGE utter disappointment for HR and Sales due to all that they lied and left out, and cut corners. Ill come back next year when the game will hopefully be worth the price of the game and subscriptions because still, the game is a laughable joke from a PC gamer standpoint since they felt they had to dumb down to us to make it fitting for consoles, which was the WRONG approach..
If you don't like the game, fine. But don't post as if you where in the SE board meetings. You don't even know if they have investors, SE has a ton of money they don't need investors.
How do you come up with stuff like they lied? They never did, in fact they are the only MMO company that openly admitted that the game was not ready. They never lied about content pre release either. Why do you have to make up stuff like that, it does not strengthen your weak argument but rather make it look more silly.
How did they cut corners or left out things? There was an OPEN BETA and everyone could see what is going to be in the game. Seriously how do you come up with stuff like that?
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Originally posted by taus01 And to those that still don't like the game, please be objective for one minute and acknowledge that this patch is amazing and changed the game quite a lot. Give credit to the work they done at least.
I was always aware that UI will be fixed and improved but the most important thing about UI did not change - it isn't suitable for use with platform the game was released for. It is still UI made for consoles with gamepad and not a PC with mouse & keyboard.
Is that objective enough?
I wonder for how many people this is the main issues with the game.
And to those that still don't like the game, please be objective for one minute and acknowledge that this patch is amazing and changed the game quite a lot. Give credit to the work they done at least.
I was always aware that UI will be fixed and improved but the most important thing about UI did not change - it isn't suitable for use with platform the game was released for. It is still UI made for consoles with gamepad and not a PC with mouse & keyboard.
Is that objective enough?
I wonder for how many people this is the main issues with the game.
it works fine with mouse and keyboard its just menu based. this patch improved Alot of things
However, to the previous poster, the pc firendly UI is scheduled for later on which will be more comprehensive, ie drag and drop, multiple positionable windows etc etc.
Originally posted by alanthecelt However, to the previous poster, the pc firendly UI is scheduled for later on which will be more comprehensive, ie drag and drop, multiple positionable windows etc etc.
Ah, that's good. It is mind boggling that it wasn't present at release...
Everyone seems to think this is the miraculous patch everone was waiting for ...I just think too late SE. If the troubles could be fixed in one patch why wouldnt it be included at launch? Stop taking us for rat labs and test your $hit prior to launch.
Like I said before previously... people look for reasons to strike a arguement... essentially like you are. Sure I think Square Enix thought maybe what they was doing was a good idea... but it failed so they changed it... and did it fairly quick.
It is not a matter of looking for a reason to strike an arguement. Nothing short of a complete revamp of this User Interface is going to save this game. Yeah, they made a few changes that has improved the UI, but to say the game has suddently become "amazing" because of a few UI tweeks is just ridiculous.
The entire process of selecting and confirming ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING is a convoluted mess of shit. And until SE gets it through ther effing head that we shouldn't have to press or click on something multiple times just to get a single minor thing done or find basic information, this game will never succeed.
I previsously mentioned using the right directional button to see my repair status in a post above. Yeah, not really a big deal, but I got an idea for SE. The answer seems pretty obvious to me. How about not even having me select the right directional button and JUST PUT THE REPAIR INFO IN THE SAME DAMN WINDOW AS ALL THE OTHER INFORMATION? Why is this so hard to understand?
One of the first things I did after logging in was to go buy more arrows at the Centaur's Eye in Gridania. Here are the steps using my PS3 controller JUST TO GET TO THE BUY MENU:
Directional button to target NPC > X button to select NPC > X button to bypass NPC text and bring up menu > directional button to cycle through menu > X button to select "Buy" which FINALLY brings up the buy window. And after all that, I STILL HAVE TO DO MORE STEPS TO BUY THE ARROWS.
What it should be:
Directional button to target NPC > X button to bring up a single Buy / Sell Interface
I would love to continue on with how much of a joke the new keyboard customization is, but this is long enough already. This UI is a complete disaster and all this update does is put little band aids on some major gaping wounds. SE needs to take a good, hard look at what they got here. Yes, I know there is a PC friendly UI coming out in the future. Great. Time will tell whether it is any good, but unless this game contiues to be free when that UI comes out, I will never see it in operation. Because I won't be playing with this convoluted mess of crap they have now.
The moment I read "It's like" or "WoW" is the moment I stop reading your post.
I've been a fan of FFXI for a long time, therefore, I was very eager to try FFXIV... GOSH the disapointment I had!
Being a fan that I am, I gaved the game a fair chance and after 2 months and a new patch, I'm still disapointed.
The source of my disapointment is probably related to the bad PC UI, content and no real good quest system etc... The crystal system kill the world immersion. Why would I want to talk/ask a crystal for quests? WHY!? Make it NPCs and maybe my imagination would kick in... And the whole world look the same!
I guess I'm not a die hard fan for not wanting to go through the testing for something that I have paid for anymore. (2 collector's edition) Fool I was! And the weird thing, it's not the first time I get burned by buying Collector's Editions and games turn out to be pieces of cr*p!
I'm not ready to be bored to death doing only mining, crafting and grinding ESPECIALLY NOT on the same mobs over and over again. I don't mind grinding, BUT we need more mob variety, especially with a huge exp. curve. and CONTENT... I will repeat that once more. Sorry
I've gone to the conclusion that good MMORPGs like EQ1 and FFXI days are over. I've been searching for years and without luck. This is not just bad luck. I think it's what the game industry is now. They make games for $$$ and no longer are making them with passion like before. The same trend is happening nowaday in the movie industry. Movies are full of NEAT special effects without any good stories behind, therefore, boring movies that doesn't catch my imagination the way it should.
So, if this is what MMORPGs are becoming, I might just find a new hobby. But what? Hmm, bird watching? Sounds more interesting at the moment...
Now playing : FFXIV Waiting on : TBD Best MMORPGs played : EQ, FFXI
Originally posted by taus01 Originally posted by Justley3
Originally posted by SotSS
FF14's beta and release were absolutely atrocious, but I do like how SE has been handling it. Clear acknowledgements that there are serious problems, free months, etc. Better than most.
They have no choice but to do this. Investors and others are down SE's throat to make the game a sucess, because so far it has been an HUGE utter disappointment for HR and Sales due to all that they lied and left out, and cut corners. Ill come back next year when the game will hopefully be worth the price of the game and subscriptions because still, the game is a laughable joke from a PC gamer standpoint since they felt they had to dumb down to us to make it fitting for consoles, which was the WRONG approach.. If you don't like the game, fine. But don't post as if you where in the SE board meetings. You don't even know if they have investors, SE has a ton of money they don't need investors.
Are you serious? You probably are, and that's what makes it so funny. Hell I can name an investor right off the top of my head, Sony, who owns 8% stock in SE.
FF14's beta and release were absolutely atrocious, but I do like how SE has been handling it. Clear acknowledgements that there are serious problems, free months, etc. Better than most.
They have no choice but to do this. Investors and others are down SE's throat to make the game a sucess, because so far it has been an HUGE utter disappointment for HR and Sales due to all that they lied and left out, and cut corners. Ill come back next year when the game will hopefully be worth the price of the game and subscriptions because still, the game is a laughable joke from a PC gamer standpoint since they felt they had to dumb down to us to make it fitting for consoles, which was the WRONG approach..
If you don't like the game, fine. But don't post as if you where in the SE board meetings. You don't even know if they have investors, SE has a ton of money they don't need investors.
Originally posted by De4dd0g Like I said before previously... people look for reasons to strike a arguement... essentially like you are. Sure I think Square Enix thought maybe what they was doing was a good idea... but it failed so they changed it... and did it fairly quick.
Hm...agreed. I think should have formulated my post and tone a bit better too though.
Only after kind reply I got here, I can see the direction of the current improvements.
It is easy not to see the patch as a first step in UI revamp if you do not know what steps are supposed to follow.
The question is then who is the ignorant here: me for not being informed or SE of not being aware of the game issues.
FF14's beta and release were absolutely atrocious, but I do like how SE has been handling it. Clear acknowledgements that there are serious problems, free months, etc. Better than most.
They have no choice but to do this. Investors and others are down SE's throat to make the game a sucess, because so far it has been an HUGE utter disappointment for HR and Sales due to all that they lied and left out, and cut corners. Ill come back next year when the game will hopefully be worth the price of the game and subscriptions because still, the game is a laughable joke from a PC gamer standpoint since they felt they had to dumb down to us to make it fitting for consoles, which was the WRONG approach..
If you don't like the game, fine. But don't post as if you where in the SE board meetings. You don't even know if they have investors, SE has a ton of money they don't need investors.
We are talking about investors that have a leverage on one specific product, namely FF14. The link are investors in SE.
But if you must argue this, i entertain the thought that all these investors only have stock because of FF14.
You really think those below 10% shareholders call up SE and tell them to change the game or they... wait for it... here it comes.. rage sell their 10% as Justley3 suggested with his post?
No they won't since FF14 is just a turd in the overall 184 Billion Yen Market Capitalization SE has. I said it before and i dare to repeat it, if you have no idea about the stock market why bother posting about it?
~/~
Less than 50% are owned by shareholders in the 2-8% range. The main shareholder and honorary chairmen, founder of Enix, holds 20%. The rest is traded on the market daily.
This is not a C-Grade game studio like FunCom, that has to finance projects with Bank loans and get money from the Distributor for a huge amount of the earnings. If that where the case i could see where Justley3 suggestion would be valid to a certain point.
Unfortunately reality is as far from that as all your suggestions of any investor calling up SE and telling them to shove it.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Like I said before previously... people look for reasons to strike a arguement... essentially like you are. Sure I think Square Enix thought maybe what they was doing was a good idea... but it failed so they changed it... and did it fairly quick.
Hm...agreed. I think should have formulated my post and tone a bit better too though.
Only after kind reply I got here, I can see the direction of the current improvements.
It is easy not to see the patch as a first step in UI revamp if you do not know what steps are supposed to follow.
The question is then who is the ignorant here: me for not being informed or SE of not being aware of the game issues.
Well if the UI is better than all for the good, Blizzard - and others too, have made their UI as unobtrusive as possible, the last thing players want to be doing is fiddling with menu's etc when their trying to play a game, its a needless complication that just irritates people, so anything that gets rid of that kind of thing, has to be a good thing.... why SE hadnt realised this in the first place is kind of mysterious.. but.. if they are fixing the UI to get rid of all those menu's then .. its about time. maybe when they have finished doing that.. i'll give the game a try myself!
Everyone seems to think this is the miraculous patch everone was waiting for ...I just think too late SE. If the troubles could be fixed in one patch why wouldnt it be included at launch? Stop taking us for rat labs and test your $hit prior to launch.
Releasing the game 6 months early is MMO tradition.
But you are right, in this case have it cost SE a lot of players.
They should be big enough to know better than this, after all did this thing turn games like VG, AoC and WAR into the small games they are today. They can get some players now but many are lost forever.
And to those that still don't like the game, please be objective for one minute and acknowledge that this patch is amazing and changed the game quite a lot. Give credit to the work they done at least.
I was always aware that UI will be fixed and improved but the most important thing about UI did not change - it isn't suitable for use with platform the game was released for. It is still UI made for consoles with gamepad and not a PC with mouse & keyboard.
Is that objective enough?
I wonder for how many people this is the main issues with the game.
You know.. I could understand the complaints before when, during beta, the mouse control was still FFXI style which is rather wonky. I could understand when there was no hardware mouse and it was dependent on your overall FPS. I could understand when the interface was very slow and sluggish and everything took several seconds to do.. sometimes upwards of 30 seconds. The complaints were 100% absolutely valid, and there were few who disagreed.
However, at this point, I think people are simply complaining for the sake of complaining.
- You can control the game with WASD and Mouse.
- You can enable/use hardware mouse.
- UI lag has been greatly reduced/eliminated, making pretty much all tasks extremely fast/easy to do now; even those with a few steps.
At this point, the game is perfectly playable with mouse/keyboard, regardless of how menu driven it is. But people are still complaining that it's not "designed specifically for PC". How is it not? I can do 100% of the things in the game with the mouse. Hell, I can do *multiple* things at once with the mouse and keyboard now. I can run along, open my inventory and check on something, or open up my point alottment screen and divvy out my points, or any number of other things... and *still* control my character with the mouse while I'm doing it by simply right clicking somewhere on the screen and turning them. Or, if I'm in auto-run, A and D will turn my character.
The game is perfectly playable as it is right now. The interface, the UI and the mouse/keyboard navigation is perfectly workable, functional, and even quite flexible as it is.
If I and many others can make it work just fine, then absolutely anyone can.
Some people, it seems, prefer to keep their head stuck up their own arse, waiting for some version of "perfection" that will likely *never* be met... so they can keep complaining about it.
I suppose to some people, they think they're "making a strong argument". But, seriously... after a point, it just comes across as relentless whining from spoiled brats who demand everything exactly the way *they* want it. And I mean this in general... across all forums. Not just here.
Coming from someone who was there since Alpha and has seen the improvements to the controls and UI since then, it has improved 1000%. It is perfectly and quite easily playable, especially now with the UI lag pretty much gone.
Other upgrades/fixes are coming in Dec's patch and will address the rest, making it even *better*.
But... I guess if someone is getting all bent out of shape over having to spend 2 or 3 seconds pressing a few extra buttons, are *that* impatient, or have *that* short an attention span... Well... the game may not be the problem for those individuals. Just sayin'.
I mean, FFS... People sink hundreds, even thousands of hours into MMOs engaging in activities that have absolutely no value outside the game. No one at a job interview (unless it's with some gaming league perhaps) is going to care if you took down Bathrahl The Destroyer of Galaxies on "Uber Godlike Heroic" difficulty, solo with a butterknife, one hand tied behind your back, blindfolded, while listening to Menudo. No matter how impressive it might be to the individual and their in-game friends, it has no value outside the context of the game. Still, people sink hour after hour after hour pursuing this stuff as though it does... and think nothing of it.
People will stand around for a half hour or longer waiting for everyone to get organized and buffed up for a raid or some other event... and think nothing of it.
Yet, ask them to spend an extra few seconds - seconds! - pressing an extra few buttons in some cases, and.... watch out! You'd think you were asking them to publically eat their own parents with a rusty spoon while wearing a diaper and punching themselves in the face repeatedly.... while listening to Menudo.
In other words, while of course it can be (and, ideally will be) improved... the outrage some are expressing over having to press a few extra buttons, or navigate a couple extra menu options is WAY disproportionate to what they're complaining about.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Everyone seems to think this is the miraculous patch everone was waiting for ...I just think too late SE. If the troubles could be fixed in one patch why wouldnt it be included at launch? Stop taking us for rat labs and test your $hit prior to launch.
Releasing the game 6 months early is MMO tradition.
But you are right, in this case have it cost SE a lot of players.
They should be big enough to know better than this, after all did this thing turn games like VG, AoC and WAR into the small games they are today. They can get some players now but many are lost forever.
Seen it happen too many times. games released too soon, Fans expectations being crushed by seemingly game breaking problems, its no surprise if they walk away vowing never to return.. but.. i suspect that if the game is eventually fixed to a degree it should have been at launch, then after a month or two they might not give it another try... some of them at least, but, any game will be viewed with a certain amount of 'distrust' if it has a bad launch.. really don't know how SE managed to make such a big mess of it, considering they already have an MMO out that gives them the experience - you'd think - of MMO design etc, particularly UI's, surely all the feedback from XI should have given them a clear insight into what players really want?
Since it seems most MMORPG Dev's can't resist releasing their games as buggy messes, I've instituted a policy of not playing games at launch, I wait at least 3 months if not more until I"m sure they've stabilized things and released the game that it should have been from the start.
I waited a year for Fallen Earth and its worked out well, the game's fun and stable and I'm enjoying myself without the usual lauch time shenanigans.
I'll do the same with FFXIV, wait till they get it where it should be and then see how it goes.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Since it seems most MMORPG Dev's can't resist releasing their games as buggy messes, I've instituted a policy of not playing games at launch, I wait at least 3 months if not more until I"m sure they've stabilized things and released the game that it should have been from the start.
I waited a year for Fallen Earth and its worked out well, the game's fun and stable and I'm enjoying myself without the usual lauch time shenanigans.
I'll do the same with FFXIV, wait till they get it where it should be and then see how it goes.
while i might not share your sentiments over fallen earth, just lately i can't help feeling that its a good idea to give some games a bit of a 'breathing space' to get themselves sorted out... i hate paying to beta personally
There was so much wrong or i mean LAZY in the design ,it was like every 30seconds i saw something that bothered me.
A simple example and i bet it is still in there........
Because of the lack of maps,i was clicking on every single darn NPC with no purpose than to find out what the heck they were there for.Now what bothered me is wasting all this time ,i wanted to leave as soon as i found out the NPC was meaningless,to do this i had to use the menu,i couldn't just walk away.That is cheap aged old console design 101,very unrealisitic that i can't just walk away from an NPC without having to close a menu.
There was cheap lazy design like this all over the game,i would have had to have a pen and paper to write everything down.Fishing not improved just full of MORE menus,harvesting,MORE menus,the game is a poor design,and i doubt this CLAIM to being better is valid.
In defense of the poor quality map making ,a flaw they SHOULD have learned form FFXI,other games are just as bad.This is why tons of people are using custom UI's ,because even the giant like WOW has horrible maps,no detail on them what so ever.People need to quit supporting these LAZY developers,they will continue to cut corners as long as people pay them to do it.At the VERY least a GOOD community should stick together and DEMAND the dev get their act together,if you want to be a fanbois,ok give them a few months,but if they do the bare minimum say screw them and take your money elsewhere.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
FF14's beta and release were absolutely atrocious, but I do like how SE has been handling it. Clear acknowledgements that there are serious problems, free months, etc. Better than most.
They have no choice but to do this. Investors and others are down SE's throat to make the game a sucess, because so far it has been an HUGE utter disappointment for HR and Sales due to all that they lied and left out, and cut corners. Ill come back next year when the game will hopefully be worth the price of the game and subscriptions because still, the game is a laughable joke from a PC gamer standpoint since they felt they had to dumb down to us to make it fitting for consoles, which was the WRONG approach..
If you don't like the game, fine. But don't post as if you where in the SE board meetings. You don't even know if they have investors, SE has a ton of money they don't need investors.
How do you come up with stuff like they lied? They never did, in fact they are the only MMO company that openly admitted that the game was not ready. They never lied about content pre release either. Why do you have to make up stuff like that, it does not strengthen your weak argument but rather make it look more silly.
How did they cut corners or left out things? There was an OPEN BETA and everyone could see what is going to be in the game. Seriously how do you come up with stuff like that?
You contradict yourself so much. You might want to look into the mirror before lashing out to the one you are quoting.
If SE has so much cash, that they do not need investors? Then why the heck did they even launch the game in such an unfinished, joke of a state?
If they have plenty of cash (wich I know they do) they could have easily delayed the game and FINISH it into a more releasable state, before launching it.
But the truth is. That they thought that they had a "JESUS" status among their fans and that their fans would buy and support anything in any state they could throw at them.
They thought that they could release the game unfinished and start cashing in on their loyal fans, while in meanwhile finishing the game (using the loyal fans a "paying" lab rats) for the Console release.
Thank god it totally back fired and SE got burned to the stake by pretty much every critic in the world and most their loyal fans. And even their main investor dropped all his stock out of rage and dissapointment and left. haha.
I guess even SE isn't "JESUS" afterall. Even if they thought for a moment they were.
If you don't like the game, fine. But don't post as if you where in the SE board meetings. You don't even know if they have investors, SE has a ton of money they don't need investors.
Thank you, but i know that since i am invested in SE. We are talking about investors that have a leverage on one specific product, namely FF14. The link are investors in SE.
But if you must argue this, i entertain the thought that all these investors only have stock because of FF14.
You really think those below 10% shareholders call up SE and tell them to change the game or they... wait for it... here it comes.. rage sell their 10% as Justley3 suggested with his post?
No they won't since FF14 is just a turd in the overall 184 Billion Yen Market Capitalization SE has. I said it before and i dare to repeat it, if you have no idea about the stock market why bother posting about it?
~/~
Less than 50% are owned by shareholders in the 2-8% range. The main shareholder and honorary chairmen, founder of Enix, holds 20%. The rest is traded on the market daily.
This is not a C-Grade game studio like FunCom, that has to finance projects with Bank loans and get money from the Distributor for a huge amount of the earnings. If that where the case i could see where Justley3 suggestion would be valid to a certain point.
Unfortunately reality is as far from that as all your suggestions of any investor calling up SE and telling them to shove it.
Pardon? I'm not entirely sure why you are attacking me here as I have made no arguments for or against SE at any point in this thread. I merely posted links which point to major investors in SE and a stock chart showing it's value. This was done so people could see the info for themselves, and given I have no idea as to what level of understanding most have of financial data I kept it as simplistic as possible.
I have made no suggestions about anyone 'calling SE' to complain or events that may/may not occur in shareholder meetings. I will assume that you are mistaking me with another poster, but for future reference it is not wise to suggest what people do/do not know based on them posting a few links for others to look at. After having worked in finance over the past ten years or so I have a relatively clear understanding of how the markets work thank you very much so please do not attempt to lecture me on it, especially as I have not made any comments on a given stock in the first place.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Comments
like having a bad UI is a good idea? Lacking content is a good idea? Console designed UI not suitable for a Pc a good idea? Ho!! yeah GJ Se you fix one of the 3 main problems that each seperately would make me leave the game. When will you fix the 2 others(there are other less important that would need to be fixed too, like bot invasion)?
Whatever you think there will always be someone against you and they will have arguments whether you like it or not .
[Mod Edit]
It works for me with my shoulder buttons L1 and R1 on the PS3 controller.
Over all, impressive work on the UI. it's fast and feels more natural now. A lot of small things that where a constant annoyance have been taken care of and the game now feels a lot more polished.
Not saying "we are there" yet, but all these little things just added to frustration.
If this is a sign of how SE is going to patch then we are in for a fast and amazing ride! December here i come.
And to those that still don't like the game, please be objective for one minute and acknowledge that this patch is amazing and changed the game quite a lot. Give credit to the work they done at least.
They have no choice but to do this. Investors and others are down SE's throat to make the game a sucess, because so far it has been an HUGE utter disappointment for HR and Sales due to all that they lied and left out, and cut corners. Ill come back next year when the game will hopefully be worth the price of the game and subscriptions because still, the game is a laughable joke from a PC gamer standpoint since they felt they had to dumb down to us to make it fitting for consoles, which was the WRONG approach..
Gamer-4-Life
If you don't like the game, fine. But don't post as if you where in the SE board meetings. You don't even know if they have investors, SE has a ton of money they don't need investors.
How do you come up with stuff like they lied? They never did, in fact they are the only MMO company that openly admitted that the game was not ready. They never lied about content pre release either. Why do you have to make up stuff like that, it does not strengthen your weak argument but rather make it look more silly.
How did they cut corners or left out things? There was an OPEN BETA and everyone could see what is going to be in the game. Seriously how do you come up with stuff like that?
I was always aware that UI will be fixed and improved but the most important thing about UI did not change - it isn't suitable for use with platform the game was released for. It is still UI made for consoles with gamepad and not a PC with mouse & keyboard.
Is that objective enough?
I wonder for how many people this is the main issues with the game.
it works fine with mouse and keyboard its just menu based. this patch improved Alot of things
havent tried it out yet since patch cant wait
However, to the previous poster, the pc firendly UI is scheduled for later on which will be more comprehensive, ie drag and drop, multiple positionable windows etc etc.
Ah, that's good. It is mind boggling that it wasn't present at release...
It is not a matter of looking for a reason to strike an arguement. Nothing short of a complete revamp of this User Interface is going to save this game. Yeah, they made a few changes that has improved the UI, but to say the game has suddently become "amazing" because of a few UI tweeks is just ridiculous.
The entire process of selecting and confirming ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING is a convoluted mess of shit. And until SE gets it through ther effing head that we shouldn't have to press or click on something multiple times just to get a single minor thing done or find basic information, this game will never succeed.
I previsously mentioned using the right directional button to see my repair status in a post above. Yeah, not really a big deal, but I got an idea for SE. The answer seems pretty obvious to me. How about not even having me select the right directional button and JUST PUT THE REPAIR INFO IN THE SAME DAMN WINDOW AS ALL THE OTHER INFORMATION? Why is this so hard to understand?
One of the first things I did after logging in was to go buy more arrows at the Centaur's Eye in Gridania. Here are the steps using my PS3 controller JUST TO GET TO THE BUY MENU:
Directional button to target NPC > X button to select NPC > X button to bypass NPC text and bring up menu > directional button to cycle through menu > X button to select "Buy" which FINALLY brings up the buy window. And after all that, I STILL HAVE TO DO MORE STEPS TO BUY THE ARROWS.
What it should be:
Directional button to target NPC > X button to bring up a single Buy / Sell Interface
I would love to continue on with how much of a joke the new keyboard customization is, but this is long enough already. This UI is a complete disaster and all this update does is put little band aids on some major gaping wounds. SE needs to take a good, hard look at what they got here. Yes, I know there is a PC friendly UI coming out in the future. Great. Time will tell whether it is any good, but unless this game contiues to be free when that UI comes out, I will never see it in operation. Because I won't be playing with this convoluted mess of crap they have now.
The moment I read "It's like" or "WoW" is the moment I stop reading your post.
For me its not just the UI that feels faster. It could just be me the whole game just feels mote fluid..
Im starting to really enjoy the game
I've been a fan of FFXI for a long time, therefore, I was very eager to try FFXIV... GOSH the disapointment I had!
Being a fan that I am, I gaved the game a fair chance and after 2 months and a new patch, I'm still disapointed.
The source of my disapointment is probably related to the bad PC UI, content and no real good quest system etc... The crystal system kill the world immersion. Why would I want to talk/ask a crystal for quests? WHY!? Make it NPCs and maybe my imagination would kick in... And the whole world look the same!
I guess I'm not a die hard fan for not wanting to go through the testing for something that I have paid for anymore. (2 collector's edition) Fool I was! And the weird thing, it's not the first time I get burned by buying Collector's Editions and games turn out to be pieces of cr*p!
I'm not ready to be bored to death doing only mining, crafting and grinding ESPECIALLY NOT on the same mobs over and over again. I don't mind grinding, BUT we need more mob variety, especially with a huge exp. curve. and CONTENT... I will repeat that once more. Sorry
I've gone to the conclusion that good MMORPGs like EQ1 and FFXI days are over. I've been searching for years and without luck. This is not just bad luck. I think it's what the game industry is now. They make games for $$$ and no longer are making them with passion like before. The same trend is happening nowaday in the movie industry. Movies are full of NEAT special effects without any good stories behind, therefore, boring movies that doesn't catch my imagination the way it should.
So, if this is what MMORPGs are becoming, I might just find a new hobby. But what? Hmm, bird watching? Sounds more interesting at the moment...
Now playing : FFXIV
Waiting on : TBD
Best MMORPGs played : EQ, FFXI
If you don't like the game, fine. But don't post as if you where in the SE board meetings. You don't even know if they have investors, SE has a ton of money they don't need investors.
Are you serious? You probably are, and that's what makes it so funny. Hell I can name an investor right off the top of my head, Sony, who owns 8% stock in SE.
Alltern8 Blog | Star Wars Space Combat and The Old Republic | Cryptic Studios - A Pre Post-Mortem | Klingon Preview, STO's Monster Play
http://www.square-enix.com/eng/ir/stock/shareholder.html
http://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1290775006122&chddm=303173&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=TYO:9684&ntsp=0
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Hm...agreed. I think should have formulated my post and tone a bit better too though.
Only after kind reply I got here, I can see the direction of the current improvements.
It is easy not to see the patch as a first step in UI revamp if you do not know what steps are supposed to follow.
The question is then who is the ignorant here: me for not being informed or SE of not being aware of the game issues.
Thank you for the links Bunnyhopper!
@Justley3
We are talking about investors that have a leverage on one specific product, namely FF14. The link are investors in SE.
But if you must argue this, i entertain the thought that all these investors only have stock because of FF14.
You really think those below 10% shareholders call up SE and tell them to change the game or they... wait for it... here it comes.. rage sell their 10% as Justley3 suggested with his post?
No they won't since FF14 is just a turd in the overall 184 Billion Yen Market Capitalization SE has. I said it before and i dare to repeat it, if you have no idea about the stock market why bother posting about it?
~/~
Less than 50% are owned by shareholders in the 2-8% range. The main shareholder and honorary chairmen, founder of Enix, holds 20%. The rest is traded on the market daily.
This is not a C-Grade game studio like FunCom, that has to finance projects with Bank loans and get money from the Distributor for a huge amount of the earnings. If that where the case i could see where Justley3 suggestion would be valid to a certain point.
Unfortunately reality is as far from that as all your suggestions of any investor calling up SE and telling them to shove it.
Well if the UI is better than all for the good, Blizzard - and others too, have made their UI as unobtrusive as possible, the last thing players want to be doing is fiddling with menu's etc when their trying to play a game, its a needless complication that just irritates people, so anything that gets rid of that kind of thing, has to be a good thing.... why SE hadnt realised this in the first place is kind of mysterious.. but.. if they are fixing the UI to get rid of all those menu's then .. its about time. maybe when they have finished doing that.. i'll give the game a try myself!
Releasing the game 6 months early is MMO tradition.
But you are right, in this case have it cost SE a lot of players.
They should be big enough to know better than this, after all did this thing turn games like VG, AoC and WAR into the small games they are today. They can get some players now but many are lost forever.
You know.. I could understand the complaints before when, during beta, the mouse control was still FFXI style which is rather wonky. I could understand when there was no hardware mouse and it was dependent on your overall FPS. I could understand when the interface was very slow and sluggish and everything took several seconds to do.. sometimes upwards of 30 seconds. The complaints were 100% absolutely valid, and there were few who disagreed.
However, at this point, I think people are simply complaining for the sake of complaining.
- You can control the game with WASD and Mouse.
- You can enable/use hardware mouse.
- UI lag has been greatly reduced/eliminated, making pretty much all tasks extremely fast/easy to do now; even those with a few steps.
At this point, the game is perfectly playable with mouse/keyboard, regardless of how menu driven it is. But people are still complaining that it's not "designed specifically for PC". How is it not? I can do 100% of the things in the game with the mouse. Hell, I can do *multiple* things at once with the mouse and keyboard now. I can run along, open my inventory and check on something, or open up my point alottment screen and divvy out my points, or any number of other things... and *still* control my character with the mouse while I'm doing it by simply right clicking somewhere on the screen and turning them. Or, if I'm in auto-run, A and D will turn my character.
The game is perfectly playable as it is right now. The interface, the UI and the mouse/keyboard navigation is perfectly workable, functional, and even quite flexible as it is.
If I and many others can make it work just fine, then absolutely anyone can.
Some people, it seems, prefer to keep their head stuck up their own arse, waiting for some version of "perfection" that will likely *never* be met... so they can keep complaining about it.
I suppose to some people, they think they're "making a strong argument". But, seriously... after a point, it just comes across as relentless whining from spoiled brats who demand everything exactly the way *they* want it. And I mean this in general... across all forums. Not just here.
Coming from someone who was there since Alpha and has seen the improvements to the controls and UI since then, it has improved 1000%. It is perfectly and quite easily playable, especially now with the UI lag pretty much gone.
Other upgrades/fixes are coming in Dec's patch and will address the rest, making it even *better*.
But... I guess if someone is getting all bent out of shape over having to spend 2 or 3 seconds pressing a few extra buttons, are *that* impatient, or have *that* short an attention span... Well... the game may not be the problem for those individuals. Just sayin'.
I mean, FFS... People sink hundreds, even thousands of hours into MMOs engaging in activities that have absolutely no value outside the game. No one at a job interview (unless it's with some gaming league perhaps) is going to care if you took down Bathrahl The Destroyer of Galaxies on "Uber Godlike Heroic" difficulty, solo with a butterknife, one hand tied behind your back, blindfolded, while listening to Menudo. No matter how impressive it might be to the individual and their in-game friends, it has no value outside the context of the game. Still, people sink hour after hour after hour pursuing this stuff as though it does... and think nothing of it.
People will stand around for a half hour or longer waiting for everyone to get organized and buffed up for a raid or some other event... and think nothing of it.
Yet, ask them to spend an extra few seconds - seconds! - pressing an extra few buttons in some cases, and.... watch out! You'd think you were asking them to publically eat their own parents with a rusty spoon while wearing a diaper and punching themselves in the face repeatedly.... while listening to Menudo.
In other words, while of course it can be (and, ideally will be) improved... the outrage some are expressing over having to press a few extra buttons, or navigate a couple extra menu options is WAY disproportionate to what they're complaining about.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Seen it happen too many times. games released too soon, Fans expectations being crushed by seemingly game breaking problems, its no surprise if they walk away vowing never to return.. but.. i suspect that if the game is eventually fixed to a degree it should have been at launch, then after a month or two they might not give it another try... some of them at least, but, any game will be viewed with a certain amount of 'distrust' if it has a bad launch.. really don't know how SE managed to make such a big mess of it, considering they already have an MMO out that gives them the experience - you'd think - of MMO design etc, particularly UI's, surely all the feedback from XI should have given them a clear insight into what players really want?
Since it seems most MMORPG Dev's can't resist releasing their games as buggy messes, I've instituted a policy of not playing games at launch, I wait at least 3 months if not more until I"m sure they've stabilized things and released the game that it should have been from the start.
I waited a year for Fallen Earth and its worked out well, the game's fun and stable and I'm enjoying myself without the usual lauch time shenanigans.
I'll do the same with FFXIV, wait till they get it where it should be and then see how it goes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
while i might not share your sentiments over fallen earth, just lately i can't help feeling that its a good idea to give some games a bit of a 'breathing space' to get themselves sorted out... i hate paying to beta personally
If you even get a chance to play it. APB scenerio?
There was so much wrong or i mean LAZY in the design ,it was like every 30seconds i saw something that bothered me.
A simple example and i bet it is still in there........
Because of the lack of maps,i was clicking on every single darn NPC with no purpose than to find out what the heck they were there for.Now what bothered me is wasting all this time ,i wanted to leave as soon as i found out the NPC was meaningless,to do this i had to use the menu,i couldn't just walk away.That is cheap aged old console design 101,very unrealisitic that i can't just walk away from an NPC without having to close a menu.
There was cheap lazy design like this all over the game,i would have had to have a pen and paper to write everything down.Fishing not improved just full of MORE menus,harvesting,MORE menus,the game is a poor design,and i doubt this CLAIM to being better is valid.
In defense of the poor quality map making ,a flaw they SHOULD have learned form FFXI,other games are just as bad.This is why tons of people are using custom UI's ,because even the giant like WOW has horrible maps,no detail on them what so ever.People need to quit supporting these LAZY developers,they will continue to cut corners as long as people pay them to do it.At the VERY least a GOOD community should stick together and DEMAND the dev get their act together,if you want to be a fanbois,ok give them a few months,but if they do the bare minimum say screw them and take your money elsewhere.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You contradict yourself so much. You might want to look into the mirror before lashing out to the one you are quoting.
If SE has so much cash, that they do not need investors? Then why the heck did they even launch the game in such an unfinished, joke of a state?
If they have plenty of cash (wich I know they do) they could have easily delayed the game and FINISH it into a more releasable state, before launching it.
But the truth is. That they thought that they had a "JESUS" status among their fans and that their fans would buy and support anything in any state they could throw at them.
They thought that they could release the game unfinished and start cashing in on their loyal fans, while in meanwhile finishing the game (using the loyal fans a "paying" lab rats) for the Console release.
Thank god it totally back fired and SE got burned to the stake by pretty much every critic in the world and most their loyal fans. And even their main investor dropped all his stock out of rage and dissapointment and left. haha.
I guess even SE isn't "JESUS" afterall. Even if they thought for a moment they were.
Pardon? I'm not entirely sure why you are attacking me here as I have made no arguments for or against SE at any point in this thread. I merely posted links which point to major investors in SE and a stock chart showing it's value. This was done so people could see the info for themselves, and given I have no idea as to what level of understanding most have of financial data I kept it as simplistic as possible.
I have made no suggestions about anyone 'calling SE' to complain or events that may/may not occur in shareholder meetings. I will assume that you are mistaking me with another poster, but for future reference it is not wise to suggest what people do/do not know based on them posting a few links for others to look at. After having worked in finance over the past ten years or so I have a relatively clear understanding of how the markets work thank you very much so please do not attempt to lecture me on it, especially as I have not made any comments on a given stock in the first place.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."