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Max stats and pvp gear/No crit strikes?
tazarconan
Member Posts: 1,013
I usually played a game through it's course with an outer goal to improve my character and gather gear to get better in pvp. Max gear and max stats on all players when u play pvp isn't it bit odd? I mean whats the reason to play raids since the gear u r going to get isnt going to be usefull on pvp since u already will have best items.
Also raising stats and following a strategy on your building character procedure isn't there too since your toon will have also max stats when pvp.
MAX stats and gear somehow kills your character evolvment since all are going to be the same. That kills the rpg spirit concerning building your toon proceedure.Sont like that at all,and im sure many ppl around dont like it either.
Point is the obvious benefits are that,everyone willing to play pvp will play it without any stats and gear penalties compared to some ppl that would have been in better guilds and gathered better gear ,they obviously wont have to burn in the game to play pvp with equal chances.
At the end though stats and gear are in fact dissapearing which kills an rpg's spirit concerning character's evolvment in supposely medieval fantasy world. That's bad dudes.Kills a big part of a game.Some will say ofc that your gear and stats will be available in pve part. Sure but if ppl wanted pve they would play oblivion,or mount and blade,Baldur' s gateor nwn 2 coop campaign with their friends online,since all these have better pve .Or ddo and lotro maybe. Ppl that will join GW2 like pvp mostly and pve as well. But seperating stats and gear of your toon? I dont know that's bad.
Also from what i remember in GW1 there were no critical strikes.Prefixed dmg like 23,23,24,23,24,23 on every hit with your weapon.That was kinda ridiculous. Anyone knows if in GW 2 still there wont be crits,and also is the dmg range still that small?
Your thoughts about those 2 things,pls and thanks in advance for eluminating us.
Comments
From my personal point of view, this will make things much more balanced; more like a multiplayer shooter than MMORPG PvP. And for that I am very thankful. I play shooters for PvP because MMORPG PvP is so unbalanced. But, there will be other forms of PvP in GW2 from what I read. The only max stats/gear is going to be for the 5v5 arena, I believe. I imagine there will be more uniqueness in The Mists (W v W) where players wear whatever gear they have acquired from playing the game. Hopefully gear and stats will not be such a deciding factor in those areas. I like to have an even playing field when I compete. I believe there is another form of PvP that has not been officially mentioned yet also. I would guess it will be similar to WoW battlegrounds.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Maxed out characters is ONLY for the 5 v 5 pvp, which will be for rankings and competitions and such. This is to ensure that everyone is playing with just their skill.
Your super cool armor and weapons that you gain via pve will and can be used in W v W v W pvp though, where you can also get rewards and experience to level.
Also there were critical strikes, but they were not some outrageous number.
GW2 attacked numbers are rather inflated if you ask me, but that doesn't really matter as everyone at the level should be at the same playing field, even with better armor (even though armor/weapons stats will have a greater impact in GW2 then it did in GW)
As far as Ive been able to tell, people will get "normalized" gear/stats in the guild versus guild competative pvp. However, in the mists (where theres going to be massive 3-sided pvp) people will keep their personal stats and gear.
Please dont quote me on this though, not sure if i remember it right.
Hopefully someone can confirm this, or correct me.
* Edit: Damn, shouldnt cook while chatting, gets too slow. So, what he said then.
You are correct. This has been confirmed in many articles and interviews.
Competitive PvP (GvG and the like) have rightfully normalized gear and maxed level since it is hardly interesting or fair to play or watch a soccer match where the other team plays without shoes. If you want to own with gear, you can do so in the casual PvP (WvWvW).
Guild Wars 1 has critical hits and they are random. The chance of critical hit increases if you are of higher level than your target. The damage of critical hit is calculated by multiplying the weapons maximum damage by its square root. Additionally, hitting a moving target in the back causes an automatic critical hit. You will take a lot of damage while trying to run away from a warrior who is faster than you. Further reading in the Guild Wars Wiki.
Damage ranges in GW were wider than that aswell. For example Axes had a damage range of 6-28. Swords have a higher minimum damage but lower max damage (15-22). Ofcoure you add to that any weapon- and skill bonuses and you must take your targets armor into account.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Just to reiterate above me GW1 did indeed have critical hits and damage ranges at max level was quite significant, you could go from 20ish damage to 100+ dmg easily. While this might not seem like much if you're used to WoW where you might go from 2,000 to 10,000. However, the % increase in damage is exactly the same the numbers just look higher and are tuned to be appropriate to the health pools of the characters. I suppose if you don't understand it and just see a bigger number and that impresses you then you'll be happy to know that even at level 45 characters were capable of hitting for well over 1,000 dmg in the demo for GW2.
Making things in an rpg work like its a shooter is that good?
Perhaps too much balance kills kills gameplay after all?
Yah all say from what i read the max stats+gear will be only in 5v5 but thats where the real pvp are right?
All in wow care about arena /5v5 . Bg's /Mists are just for fun . So if in 5v5 arenas gear/stats u r making will be useless game is loosing points.
Perhaps the team has to go to drassings rooms and wear them? heh
Dude what u r doing in a medieval fantasy world should affect u in all your activities in that world. Im making a smart stat build strategy on my toon combining specific items that are raising spesific stats and skills i value,to suit my playstyle better. Now if the gear wouldnt affect the stats much,i wouldnt care so much,if for example upon lvling player could manually add15 points in stats and skills of his choise. But since the major number of stats are gained through gear ,and since the more intresting and balanced pvp is the 5v5 competition it just ruins your character' work throught game. No point to gather gear and do raids .Just feel like that. The mists im guessing will be just for fun like wow's bg's.All the essence of pvp will be in 5v5 like wow's arenas.
Assassins have critical strikes in GW.
Gear is not progression. And making gear closer to other gear makes PvP more about skills.
So I see no problem, but I like GW. I do however have the feeling that many current raiders will be turn off by this. But GW2 is not a game trying to please every single player, it has it's own race.
I am surprise that there are fewer threads about this than you would expect, ANET have stated it many times and it is one of the more controversial things about the first game.
I am more worried that it will be too fast to get to max level myself.
making gear dependant progressive competitive pvp is counter-productive. Even without doing it gw1's pvp alienated newcomers with the number of skills they had to grasp, now you want them to add gear and grind to that equation. Mind that its gear and grind because if you remove the grind, everyone will have the gear, and everyone having gear is where we've started. You can argue getting better armor through pvp which is even worse because that way a newcomer after 2 years game launch will have no chance against someone well-equipped. (Which we dont want because every pvp players wants/enjoys fair fights, right? )
They dont want people to show their e-peens for the time spend in game as pvp progress (you can do that in pve where it belongs). You will get owned by someone more skilled than you no matter how many more years you've played, whatever epic loot you've ground.
I need more vespene gas.
i'd say that PvP would be more about you build of skills compared to your stats really, atleast thats how it is in GW1, though I did read somewhere in an interview (can't remember where exactly though) that stats will have a higher influence on the performance on your character, but if in 5v5 that you got fixed stats, then its more about smart thinking, about the skills you got available and to form a team build in skills which links everything together with a strategy - this sort of nullifies the need for the stats I believe.
I'm not entirely sure why you would rather want a lot better stats compared to a better build of skills with your team, as they will probaly be adding more skills with each expansion pack (atleast I certainly hope so
)
Normalization of gear is actually much, much better than requiring pvp progression to dominate everyone who has less gear than you be competitive in pvp (Highlight the black for what it actually does.) They will stay have areas in which gear will be > skill, but that is only natural in an open-world game. In GW1, there was no gear progression whatsoever, and even the option to make a pvp-only character with the same gear stats as everyone else. The only point of PvE was to "look cool" and see the lore. The main point of PvP ,on the other hand, was bragging rights and sometimes cool looking gear with the same stats as everything else.
In GW2, they will be combining those ideas with a progression-based philosophy, which is why the "ranked", or whatever they will call it, PvP will be normalized completely. TBH, its the only way to prevent exploitation of said system for gear.
The gear will be somewhat maxed so I trust your build will work there aswell. You kinda miss the point of raiding - which is fun cooperative PvE. Competitive PvP is about player skill. The best player wins. You can enjoy your gear in WvWvW and PvE. They have no intetion to make GvG about "grind 2 win". No shortcuts for the giftless.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
One of the things i got so bored in wow was grind.grind mobs,grind dungeons,grind daily quests,grind badges,grind raids etc etc etc etc
But what is grind. Grind is a boring repeatidly same proceedure ,necessary to achieve some goals. Now wow's combat may be working,succesfull but tis very simplistic and using it over and over upon grinding makes u feel sick,stomache ache,headaches,puking etc etc
GW 2 has a more fluid,more tactical and well thinking,more impressive combat system,due to great grafix and animations that using it on outdoors dungeons,raids (supposely if combat system works nice) wouldnt make a game like gw 2 be boring aka wow.
Now most ppl here say that in order to avoid playing raids/dungeons/adventuring in the wilds for treasures often, max gear and max stats is a good idea so ppl can go str8 to 5v5 (where real competitive pvp lies) with equal terms a day 1 character same exactly with a player that is in gw 2 for 5 months. Thats Tekken then or Cs,or call of duty where only skill determines who wins/looses and not a mmoRPG where the course of a character upon game's world follow's him whenever he is in a dungeon,adventuring ,or pvp tournaments.
For ranked PvP, balance is good. You may not agree, and that's fine. There will be plenty of imbalance in the other types of PvP besides the arenas. It sounds like you are upset that you will not have a statistical advantage in ranked competition. There is still plenty to work for and progress toward, like getting better at the game and working well with others. Practice makes perfect.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
You are aware that most of GvG in GW1 including tournaments were done with PvP-only characters that could've been made just then and there (3 seconds old). PvP-only characters had all skills and maxed gear available to them (if player had unlocked them). Only reason to play in PvP with your PvE character was that some builds used a minimum level pet to their advantage or they just liked to show off their gear. It was l33t.
Players love it because it is balanced and fair. If you buy GW2 you can stick to WvWvW only. Nobody is going to force you to play with the big boys in GvG.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
If i'm a better player, i should kill you, no matter how much of your life you've wasted grinding ze' purples.
That is all as far as i'm concerned with the pvp aspect of the discussion.
Because RPG makes pvp a bit like Zhaitan fighting 1v1 Logan Thackeray (I choose Zhaitan) To sum:
1. min/max build victory (no foils to counter-check a winning build formula) eg lack of strategy
2. OP skills victory (no balance between modes therefore no balance within modes) eg "Fear" necro skill
3. Economic victory (time/gear > skill/strategy): eg lvl80 vs lvl 1
4. Zerg Victory (most players button mashing > fewer players button mashing) eg 5v5
Removing these problems is why Structured PvP =/= PvE conditions
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem