Rather than new races they need to look at content and end game balance, oh and the way ‘sieges’ work too. Has any of that been sorted out?
Instead they bring new races and it looks like financial considerations stopped them designing two new races so a chaos race is playable by the order side too, crazy.
They buggered up large areas of gameplay but the game was reasonable lore wise. Now they have thrown the lore to the wind, a real shame.
So sad, I think this is one of the reasons that already settled gaming IPs make for HORRIBLE mmos. While Tabletop gaming has one set of rules, and pnp rpgs have their own sets, when mmo devs get their hands on these ips they just bastardize the hell out of them, and all for the sake of "gameplay" or "balance". In Warhammer Online's case I would wager its more about the dev team not having the time, funding, or talent to install a second race for the order side.
It seems mythic is just a fading shadow of what it once was. And I have to say it started when they threw Imperium out the window and decided that they needed to fall on a solid IP to get good numbers. And hey, its impossible to prove a negative, but I have the feeling that if they had first gone with someone far better than Tzeench, and secondly if they actually stuck to the core of what Warhammer is about, this game would be doing far better than it currently is.
So when are they adding the space marines into the orcs side? Thay should just merge 2 factions into one so the remaining few ppl dont complain about pvp balance. Let this game die already!!! how many ppl left playing ? 20k? (i am talking about subs, not free trial ppl)
Sorry but Skaven only side with Skaven's in the end. This game is so FUBAR'd lore wise it's not even funny. Also a better choice would of been to use Orges instead for a mercenary race or dogs of war companies.
OMG! What starts out one way in a MMO NEVER EVER CHANGES OVER THER LIFE OF THE GAME! NOTHING EVER CHANGES! IT ALWAYS STAYS THE SAME!
Ah well. We'll have to wait and see. But now that they are adding Skaven, I'll finally have a reason to play. I might even buy the game.
BTW lore is exactly why Warhammer 40k will also be a disaster. 2 faction pvp games always fail because one faction always dominates. With 3 or more the lessor can always gang up on the greater.
If you have to have the lore remain as it was I suggest you go back to playing the board game it was intended for!
I really don't understand what point you are making here about Warhammer 40k. The board game and the lore DEFINITELY does not support 2 faction system. The developer has chosen to ignore the lore and group the factions into two sides that generally the lore would disallow.
Way to take somebody's words out of context and butcher his original point, bro.
Hmm while I will not go into all the whining about the IP.. I love Warhammer Fantasy in both forms.. Age of Reckoning and the original. I have to mention that Games Workshop themselves are NOTORIOUS for changing history of their worlds with each new edition of the table top that comes out. So this just goes along with it. I dont mind at all that Skaven are being used as Mercs. Would I have rather them set it up that Skaven could have been destruction? Sure.. If they did this they could have used the Ogre Kingdoms for Order. Or even better yet used the Skaven as a starter skirmish force for a 3rd faction. Consisting of Skaven, Undead, and maybe Lizardmen or Ogre Kingdoms.
Ohh well I was considering going back to Warhammer about a month ago. But I hate that they dont cater to PVE at all and actually gimp those of us that would like to explore the lore they have taken so long to create and expand upon.
Way to take somebody's words out of context and butcher his original point, bro.
<<Sad? The only thing sad here is the way Mythic was forced to implement the IP because of the lore! Games-Workshop lore is all centered around board games, about time they came into the 21st century and altered their lore a bit allow a decent MMO type setting. BTW lore is exactly why Warhammer 40k will also be a disaster. 2 faction pvp games always fail because one faction always dominates. With 3 or more the lessor can always gang up on the greater.
If you have to have the lore remain as it was I suggest you go back to playing the board game it was intended for! >>
^^ So that's his entire post. Why don't you tell us what's out of context, smart one?
More likely, it's two people popping off when they don't have anything to say. Neither Warhammer or 40k have anything like a 2 faction system in "board" game.
Sigh Skaven are Chaos their natural enemies Lizardmen are Order, and thats what fans wanted from the beginning, Skaven and Lizardmen, these guys and screw up a wet dream.
Rather than new races they need to look at content and end game balance, oh and the way ‘sieges’ work too. Has any of that been sorted out?
Instead they bring new races and it looks like financial considerations stopped them designing two new races so a chaos race is playable by the order side too, crazy.
They buggered up large areas of gameplay but the game was reasonable lore wise. Now they have thrown the lore to the wind, a real shame.
From what I understand the addition of the Skaven is at most about half of the changes additions that are coming with this patch bundle. Seiges are being completely revamped, and of course the constant balancing act continues to get refined hopefully.
Not saying this update won't be horrible, but there is more to it than just adding some rodents.
So sad, I think this is one of the reasons that already settled gaming IPs make for HORRIBLE mmos. While Tabletop gaming has one set of rules, and pnp rpgs have their own sets, when mmo devs get their hands on these ips they just bastardize the hell out of them, and all for the sake of "gameplay" or "balance". In Warhammer Online's case I would wager its more about the dev team not having the time, funding, or talent to install a second race for the order side.
It seems mythic is just a fading shadow of what it once was. And I have to say it started when they threw Imperium out the window and decided that they needed to fall on a solid IP to get good numbers. And hey, its impossible to prove a negative, but I have the feeling that if they had first gone with someone far better than Tzeench, and secondly if they actually stuck to the core of what Warhammer is about, this game would be doing far better than it currently is.
3-sided RvR would have helped quite a bit as well. Funny how they disregarded one of the main strengths of DaoC.
This would of been a primo chance to introduce a third faction and possibly revitalize this game. I really can't wrap my head around the fact that they haven't figured out that the 2 sided RVR is what killed/is killing the game.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
I've given up in hoping any thrid party can actally take an exisisting IP and stay as loyal as they can with it - thats not just with games or MMOs, I hate to say this but the only people that can get away with it is Blizzard as it's their lore to begin with (although 'borrowed' from Warhammer and other pop culture), they have to make it their version which in the case of WAR or many many film versions of games have strayed so far off the point in the first place it's nothing like what it's ment to be.
As someone said Lizardmen would have made the most logical choice, even Mythic thought so at one point, even adding the 3rd faction of counts and kings was widely disscussed between the fanbase,
Aall this Skaven update does is further prove that WAR is a 2nd thought now next to the other projects in Bioware and it's just going through the motions atm to try and make it seem that it will get updated from time to time - TBH I don't blame them, Mythic (ie Mark Jacobs) screwed the pooch the moment they started cutting content and reversing all the good PR annoucements Paul did, if half the stuff that was actally accounced made it thru (dogs of war, all the cities, etc, even the orginal sandbox version) then the game wouldn't have bombed as much as it did, it's a badly designed pvp MMO with a Warhammer theme.
I think the most upsetting thing is that Vigil are sticking to the two faction in 40K:DM even tho it's the most complained 'feature' about WAR AND Relic/THQ are involved and they proved they know the lore properly with DoW....
Vigil/THQ/Relic for heven's sake use WAR as an example of NOT to do a Warhammer MMO, the market doesn't need another EQ/WoW carbon copy, we need another EVE/DAoC.
This is only a temporary measure. When the 2nd rvr pack is released this will contain a second race, one more suited to order than skaven (likely the lizardmen).
Skaven will then be playable by destruction only and order will have the new race only.
Sure I'd have liked there to have been 1 race for each side (and indeed fully playable) but the money simply isnt there to do that in the first pack so we have to wait until the second.
This is only a temporary measure. When the 2nd rvr pack is released this will contain a second race, one more suited to order than skaven (likely the lizardmen).
Skaven will then be playable by destruction only and order will have the new race only.
Sure I'd have liked there to have been 1 race for each side (and indeed fully playable) but the money simply isnt there to do that in the first pack so we have to wait until the second.
Yeah, that's the thing. They don't have a lot of money to work with.
I for one am glad there will just be something new to add to RVR and look forward to playing a Skaven and causing problems.
To me, Warhammer is really the only MMORPG worth playing right now that's fun every time I play it, so anything new is appreciated.
I could be wrong, but I was pretty sure players wanted Skaven as a 3rd Realm so that PvP servers could be more balanced (rather than the imbalanced 2-realm system they have). So, they add Skaven, but they continue with the 2-realm system. Seems like they only went halfway, which is sad. The game sorely needed 3-realms at the start instead of 2, and now most of the servers have closed.
I personally felt the game had great potential even though they botched the concept early with the two faction deal in my opinion. I think it should have allowed you to form teams among the Order, and other than certain Chaotic factions or classes kept it from being an option other than in their own race. Kept the factions seperated...
On the aspect of EA and GW. They both are money whores. Probably worse than Blizzard. Sorry but its the truth. They don't respect their lore as long as they think it'll bring them a buck, and flip flop it any time they want it to fit. Also GW products are extremely over priced in my oppinion.
I think many of these big companies need to take a step back and simplify their build process. Instead of maximizing their first release profits like so many try to do. They need to focus maybe on two races for PvP and PvE. Then as their work will be more solid cause more time was spent working out the kinks for just two races. Then they can focus on an update that will implement another solidly built two races that had plenty of time to be fleshed out.
No. We gotta throw out unfinished untested work that doesn't appease our core fan base. Who will most likely buy it just because its based on their favorite subject matter. No we can't take the time to make solid material and actually learn the most about our products. We just know that the masses will suck it up like bees to pollen cause it tastes so good and hypnotize them to think "OMG I always wanted to play that concept in real time."
I say for 40K they should just build two solid core PvP races, give the players some huge battle grounds and build around that. Instead of trying to mimic the lore only to break it in the end. Focus on your dynamic catch first instead of always trying to appease both sides. Do something solid then add too it. Its more cost effective, and you can build a very solid core sales rep that I think will soak up the next bunch of content. Instead they often leave cause your original core material was ugly only to be followed by more rushed and slapped together stuff to try to hold onto the few remaining groupies who only stayed hoping you'd clean up your act to then be insulted by your lack of concern for cleaning up your mess.
I also know for a fact with one of those starter races being the Space Marines your first buyers will be a big enough market. This won't happen and I am obviously ignorant of the way MMORPG marketing works so I'll save people the time and insult myself for the sake of humor on my part. Ha, haha, ha... =I End of line...
What they should have done if money is tight is introduced Skaven on both sides then next expansion replace the Order Skaven with the Lizards, just swap the toons. Give them the same classes as WH uses mirror classes and of you go. If Skaven have a start area, make the order one Lizards could start in too.
IMO They took a great and awesome game and squashed it with overpowered order classes. All the gm's play order so I removed my sub and never looking at this game again until they even the playing fields. Then I might think about resubbing.
LOL I'm sorry but your an idiot and here comes the classic The devs play this class and like this class more waaahhh wahhh wahhhh. If anything destro have a slight advantage over order. Theres no way you can tell me that the Swordmaster is Op... WHich happens to be the class I played the most and the reason i stopped playing because the class is pretty gimp. Even though I don't play anymore I still think the game has the best PvP in any mmo out atm. And adding the Skaven should make it more interesting since it was getting boring. If they buffed the Swordmaster alittle I woul def start playing Warhammer again after this patch.
Everyone complaining about the lore come on seriously would you rather play a game that sucked but stayed completly true to the lore or play a game that was fun and strayed from the lore a little bit to make the game funner to play.
This coming Skaven expansion actually made me quit Warhammer, because it only proved how much Mythic dont care about players opinions.
Interesting; but what is in the patch / rvr pack (its not an expansion) is what players wanted. things like an end to higher rr's farming lowbies in scenarios, much more balanced game play, easier for players to get to rr80 and get loot, an end to having to wait for a zone lock, something for the vast number of players with a rr80 to do etc.
IMO They took a great and awesome game and squashed it with overpowered order classes. All the gm's play order so I removed my sub and never looking at this game again until they even the playing fields. Then I might think about resubbing.
The servers that have an equal population on either side which is most of them are balanced. if one side or the other actually had better classes we would see that side dominate open rvr all the time; this doesnt happen.
If you lose in an equal numbers fight now its usually because the other side are better players at pvp than you are.
i wouldnt ever resub if I was you; if your not willing to admit you got beaten because of bad play on your part and learn from it how to play better then pvp games are not for you.
I could be wrong, but I was pretty sure players wanted Skaven as a 3rd Realm so that PvP servers could be more balanced (rather than the imbalanced 2-realm system they have). So, they add Skaven, but they continue with the 2-realm system. Seems like they only went halfway, which is sad. The game sorely needed 3-realms at the start instead of 2, and now most of the servers have closed.
Oh well.
very true; unfortunately it would cost alot of money to change it to 3 faction pvp straight away and that means heavy investment from EA. With AWTOR costing a reported xxx million this isnt going to happen.
maybe if the rvr pack is a success and SWTOR isnt EA might change their minds on this, who knows.
Comments
Rather than new races they need to look at content and end game balance, oh and the way ‘sieges’ work too. Has any of that been sorted out?
Instead they bring new races and it looks like financial considerations stopped them designing two new races so a chaos race is playable by the order side too, crazy.
They buggered up large areas of gameplay but the game was reasonable lore wise. Now they have thrown the lore to the wind, a real shame.
So sad, I think this is one of the reasons that already settled gaming IPs make for HORRIBLE mmos. While Tabletop gaming has one set of rules, and pnp rpgs have their own sets, when mmo devs get their hands on these ips they just bastardize the hell out of them, and all for the sake of "gameplay" or "balance". In Warhammer Online's case I would wager its more about the dev team not having the time, funding, or talent to install a second race for the order side.
It seems mythic is just a fading shadow of what it once was. And I have to say it started when they threw Imperium out the window and decided that they needed to fall on a solid IP to get good numbers. And hey, its impossible to prove a negative, but I have the feeling that if they had first gone with someone far better than Tzeench, and secondly if they actually stuck to the core of what Warhammer is about, this game would be doing far better than it currently is.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
So when are they adding the space marines into the orcs side? Thay should just merge 2 factions into one so the remaining few ppl dont complain about pvp balance. Let this game die already!!! how many ppl left playing ? 20k? (i am talking about subs, not free trial ppl)
OMG! What starts out one way in a MMO NEVER EVER CHANGES OVER THER LIFE OF THE GAME! NOTHING EVER CHANGES! IT ALWAYS STAYS THE SAME!
Ah well. We'll have to wait and see. But now that they are adding Skaven, I'll finally have a reason to play. I might even buy the game.
Way to take somebody's words out of context and butcher his original point, bro.
Hmm while I will not go into all the whining about the IP.. I love Warhammer Fantasy in both forms.. Age of Reckoning and the original. I have to mention that Games Workshop themselves are NOTORIOUS for changing history of their worlds with each new edition of the table top that comes out. So this just goes along with it. I dont mind at all that Skaven are being used as Mercs. Would I have rather them set it up that Skaven could have been destruction? Sure.. If they did this they could have used the Ogre Kingdoms for Order. Or even better yet used the Skaven as a starter skirmish force for a 3rd faction. Consisting of Skaven, Undead, and maybe Lizardmen or Ogre Kingdoms.
Ohh well I was considering going back to Warhammer about a month ago. But I hate that they dont cater to PVE at all and actually gimp those of us that would like to explore the lore they have taken so long to create and expand upon.
another fail. thx for destroying the lore and the quality of gameplay of Warhammer. GW's games are for wargamers, not for wowers. FAIL
<<Sad? The only thing sad here is the way Mythic was forced to implement the IP because of the lore! Games-Workshop lore is all centered around board games, about time they came into the 21st century and altered their lore a bit allow a decent MMO type setting. BTW lore is exactly why Warhammer 40k will also be a disaster. 2 faction pvp games always fail because one faction always dominates. With 3 or more the lessor can always gang up on the greater.
If you have to have the lore remain as it was I suggest you go back to playing the board game it was intended for! >>
^^ So that's his entire post. Why don't you tell us what's out of context, smart one?
More likely, it's two people popping off when they don't have anything to say. Neither Warhammer or 40k have anything like a 2 faction system in "board" game.
Sigh Skaven are Chaos their natural enemies Lizardmen are Order, and thats what fans wanted from the beginning, Skaven and Lizardmen, these guys and screw up a wet dream.
People are still trying to defend this game?
Pro tip: Forget this game was ever made, go back to playing Warhammer table top ... enjoy.
You stay sassy!
From what I understand the addition of the Skaven is at most about half of the changes additions that are coming with this patch bundle. Seiges are being completely revamped, and of course the constant balancing act continues to get refined hopefully.
Not saying this update won't be horrible, but there is more to it than just adding some rodents.
3-sided RvR would have helped quite a bit as well. Funny how they disregarded one of the main strengths of DaoC.
This would of been a primo chance to introduce a third faction and possibly revitalize this game. I really can't wrap my head around the fact that they haven't figured out that the 2 sided RVR is what killed/is killing the game.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
I've given up in hoping any thrid party can actally take an exisisting IP and stay as loyal as they can with it - thats not just with games or MMOs, I hate to say this but the only people that can get away with it is Blizzard as it's their lore to begin with (although 'borrowed' from Warhammer and other pop culture), they have to make it their version which in the case of WAR or many many film versions of games have strayed so far off the point in the first place it's nothing like what it's ment to be.
As someone said Lizardmen would have made the most logical choice, even Mythic thought so at one point, even adding the 3rd faction of counts and kings was widely disscussed between the fanbase,
Aall this Skaven update does is further prove that WAR is a 2nd thought now next to the other projects in Bioware and it's just going through the motions atm to try and make it seem that it will get updated from time to time - TBH I don't blame them, Mythic (ie Mark Jacobs) screwed the pooch the moment they started cutting content and reversing all the good PR annoucements Paul did, if half the stuff that was actally accounced made it thru (dogs of war, all the cities, etc, even the orginal sandbox version) then the game wouldn't have bombed as much as it did, it's a badly designed pvp MMO with a Warhammer theme.
I think the most upsetting thing is that Vigil are sticking to the two faction in 40K:DM even tho it's the most complained 'feature' about WAR AND Relic/THQ are involved and they proved they know the lore properly with DoW....
Vigil/THQ/Relic for heven's sake use WAR as an example of NOT to do a Warhammer MMO, the market doesn't need another EQ/WoW carbon copy, we need another EVE/DAoC.
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
This is only a temporary measure. When the 2nd rvr pack is released this will contain a second race, one more suited to order than skaven (likely the lizardmen).
Skaven will then be playable by destruction only and order will have the new race only.
Sure I'd have liked there to have been 1 race for each side (and indeed fully playable) but the money simply isnt there to do that in the first pack so we have to wait until the second.
Yeah, that's the thing. They don't have a lot of money to work with.
I for one am glad there will just be something new to add to RVR and look forward to playing a Skaven and causing problems.
To me, Warhammer is really the only MMORPG worth playing right now that's fun every time I play it, so anything new is appreciated.
They can be played on both sides, because otherwise they would have to introduce a new race to Order as well.
Their reason for this is just a lame excuse to prevent this. But its not that unexpected given the shape of the game (in subs).
I could be wrong, but I was pretty sure players wanted Skaven as a 3rd Realm so that PvP servers could be more balanced (rather than the imbalanced 2-realm system they have). So, they add Skaven, but they continue with the 2-realm system. Seems like they only went halfway, which is sad. The game sorely needed 3-realms at the start instead of 2, and now most of the servers have closed.
Oh well.
I personally felt the game had great potential even though they botched the concept early with the two faction deal in my opinion. I think it should have allowed you to form teams among the Order, and other than certain Chaotic factions or classes kept it from being an option other than in their own race. Kept the factions seperated...
On the aspect of EA and GW. They both are money whores. Probably worse than Blizzard. Sorry but its the truth. They don't respect their lore as long as they think it'll bring them a buck, and flip flop it any time they want it to fit. Also GW products are extremely over priced in my oppinion.
I think many of these big companies need to take a step back and simplify their build process. Instead of maximizing their first release profits like so many try to do. They need to focus maybe on two races for PvP and PvE. Then as their work will be more solid cause more time was spent working out the kinks for just two races. Then they can focus on an update that will implement another solidly built two races that had plenty of time to be fleshed out.
No. We gotta throw out unfinished untested work that doesn't appease our core fan base. Who will most likely buy it just because its based on their favorite subject matter. No we can't take the time to make solid material and actually learn the most about our products. We just know that the masses will suck it up like bees to pollen cause it tastes so good and hypnotize them to think "OMG I always wanted to play that concept in real time."
I say for 40K they should just build two solid core PvP races, give the players some huge battle grounds and build around that. Instead of trying to mimic the lore only to break it in the end. Focus on your dynamic catch first instead of always trying to appease both sides. Do something solid then add too it. Its more cost effective, and you can build a very solid core sales rep that I think will soak up the next bunch of content. Instead they often leave cause your original core material was ugly only to be followed by more rushed and slapped together stuff to try to hold onto the few remaining groupies who only stayed hoping you'd clean up your act to then be insulted by your lack of concern for cleaning up your mess.
I also know for a fact with one of those starter races being the Space Marines your first buyers will be a big enough market. This won't happen and I am obviously ignorant of the way MMORPG marketing works so I'll save people the time and insult myself for the sake of humor on my part. Ha, haha, ha... =I End of line...
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
"Love can be innocent and can be sweet, but sometimes about as nice as rotting meat."
What they should have done if money is tight is introduced Skaven on both sides then next expansion replace the Order Skaven with the Lizards, just swap the toons. Give them the same classes as WH uses mirror classes and of you go. If Skaven have a start area, make the order one Lizards could start in too.
LOL I'm sorry but your an idiot and here comes the classic The devs play this class and like this class more waaahhh wahhh wahhhh. If anything destro have a slight advantage over order. Theres no way you can tell me that the Swordmaster is Op... WHich happens to be the class I played the most and the reason i stopped playing because the class is pretty gimp. Even though I don't play anymore I still think the game has the best PvP in any mmo out atm. And adding the Skaven should make it more interesting since it was getting boring. If they buffed the Swordmaster alittle I woul def start playing Warhammer again after this patch.
Everyone complaining about the lore come on seriously would you rather play a game that sucked but stayed completly true to the lore or play a game that was fun and strayed from the lore a little bit to make the game funner to play.
This coming Skaven expansion actually made me quit Warhammer, because it only proved how much Mythic dont care about players opinions.
Interesting; but what is in the patch / rvr pack (its not an expansion) is what players wanted. things like an end to higher rr's farming lowbies in scenarios, much more balanced game play, easier for players to get to rr80 and get loot, an end to having to wait for a zone lock, something for the vast number of players with a rr80 to do etc.
The servers that have an equal population on either side which is most of them are balanced. if one side or the other actually had better classes we would see that side dominate open rvr all the time; this doesnt happen.
If you lose in an equal numbers fight now its usually because the other side are better players at pvp than you are.
i wouldnt ever resub if I was you; if your not willing to admit you got beaten because of bad play on your part and learn from it how to play better then pvp games are not for you.
very true; unfortunately it would cost alot of money to change it to 3 faction pvp straight away and that means heavy investment from EA. With AWTOR costing a reported xxx million this isnt going to happen.
maybe if the rvr pack is a success and SWTOR isnt EA might change their minds on this, who knows.