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Please STOP!!! saying MO has territory control!!!!
maharet
Member Posts: 115
The territory control in MO is....
Whomever has a keep in a specific area of land gets taxes from the houses that are in said land. How is that territory control?? You can do nothing with the territory. And most of the time the tax collecting does not work. Houses are still taking damage because house upkeep does not work all the time.
If it is territory control then you would be able to do something with the land you own. For instance hiring guards, declaring laws, Certian people or guilds tag grey to you. I mean some perks to it. Every guild that has territort complains it really isn't territory control.
I was a member of the Patriarch forum before territory control came out. Basically all the big guilds wanted something to do and told SV please implement territory control. Our guilds are restless and they are going to leave unless we have something like this to do. And then SV gave us the crap we have now.
There is no point in holding and there really is not point in taking a keep down for it.
Comments
MO's territory control is neaither functional or complete in mechanics.
However it does mean something ingame to hold territory, it's a symbol of power and gives the clan/clans in control the political power to KoS people on those lands and decide what's what as long as they have the strength to regulate it.
Recently a keep was destroyed over territory control of the central steppe, the newly emerged VO alliance has put their name on the map instead of the previous owners and regulates what happens there. TOP/TnA have placed several regulations when entering there lands / who / how many. 'KoS' are neutral and other factions are forced to follow an entire page of laws and rules.
So yes territory control does exist in MO however the mechanics inplace are not nessecarily in control of who owns what, rather who owns the keep/can hold it with pure numbers.
After seeing you guys eagerness in creating negative threads about MO, I thought you are trolls, after reading your posts, I've found that you guys are also writing about things that I find missing and not working about the game. I don't know about the teriority control in MO as I did not play long after they've put that system in
I still share the vision with the devs, but I refuse to pay subscription for an incomplete game. Anyone willing to pay for the game should know about the missing parts. MO is a very different game and you can have fun (even great fun) for a limited time, but there are so many things missing that you'll get bored in short time of you'll not be PvPing all the time
Thorpey is correct, but here's how it looks in practice and in-game:
You own a keep. A keep has no function that benefits your guild besides being this big pile of stone you call a Keep. There are no in-game mechanics to KOS someone in a territory, the only mechanic player-defined and it's "kill everything that isn't on voice comm".
Recently 20 guys got together and built a keep, the other 50-80 guys with a keep over the hill were bored so they built a catapult to destroy it since the first 20 guys were stupid enough to build in a keep spot that's very close to an utility vendor who sells boulders for catapults. Some guys wrote a long-winded post on the forum about how you should behave in their lands, but in reality you just ride through when you want, where you want, and kill who you want. Some guilds put a bit of a roleplaying spiel on it and call their territory a Kingdom.
In short, its like when you're a kid and you have an invisible friend only you can see called Territory.
as a minimum the members of the guild that owns a territory should be non-guardable( can't call guards on them) inside cities that reside with in that territory. also the guild in charge should be able to tax all the npcs within their territory directly effecting the price of goods and therfore trade. they should also be able to tax all the houses or buildings inside their territory.
as it stands right now territory control it's a complete joke. there is absolutely no reason to own a keep, or territory besides braging rights.
Aye, Syndic and the others are correct. The system is incomplete. Pompeii actually put forwards a great system but alas it has not been implemented and Pompeii left the team. I reproduce below the system Pompeii proposed...in his own words. It is a great read but we all know that it could never be implemented. I would add that this proposal is why most of us subbed for so long and supported SV.
Pompeii's proposed system. WARNING LONG READ...but worth it.
1. General outline
Points of Interest:
1. Nobody wants to see their house destroyed just because it’s a requirement to capture territory.
2. Siege-Engines ( Catapults, player skill to use slow to maneuver, costly to build in Siege Workshops – low end tier Ballistas/Catapults can be produced T1 Siege Workshop modules in Keeps, medium-end tier Heavy Catapults/Onagers can be T2 Siege Workshop modules produced in Keeps, high-end Trebuchets can be produced in Castles).
3. Siege-Engines specialty - Can place houses in 'knock out' status which means they cannot be used / taxed during a war.
4. Rebel “Siege” engine is the Torch - to set houses on fire and thus 'knock' them out.
5. A House is placed in the region : Nation X , Country Y , Keep Taxation Q, Guild Affiliation Z (House owner)
6. A Keep is placed in the region : Nation X , Country Y , Castle Taxation Q , Guild Affiliation Z - Keep Stone
7. A Castle is placed in the region : Nation , Country , Guild Affiliation - City Stone
8. A Capital is placed in the region : Guild Affiliation - Nation Stone (All 'small' countries into 1 huge nation).
9. Titles comes with territory, Lord/Lady for keep , King/Queen for Castle , Emperor/Empress for Nation.
2. Taxation
Taxing System
1. Region Tax (Houses taxed by Keeps):
1. The Tax is set % on Vendor sales/day.
2. The normal housing tax is set individually / house in %.
3. The keeps collects the Tax from the house's (Thus having a chanse to lose money if robbed).
4. Rebels can rob house's tax if the house has burnt 30% of total HP.
2. Country Tax(Keeps taxed by Castles):
1. The Tax is set % of the wealth thats placed into the coffers of the keep.
2. The Castle collects the tax from the coffers of the keep (Thus having a chanse to lose money if robbed).
3. Rebels can rob keep tax if the Keep has burnt down 40 % of total HP.
3. Nation Tax (Castles taxed by Capital City):
1. The Tax is set % of the wealth thats placed into the coffers of the castle.
2. The Capital (if such one exist) can collect the tax from each castle, (Thus having a chanse to lose money if robbed)
3. Rebels can sack castles IF 70% has burnt down of total HP
Region/Country/Nation Mechanic:
1. A keep has X amount's of houses within a set radius.
2. A castle has 3 keeps in its radius.
3. A capital has X amounts of castles (depending on Nation size).
Warfare:
1. A guild claims dominion by getting a keep.
2. A guild claims dominion by either ally with the 2 other keeps or preforms a Conquest.
3. A guild performs a rebellion against the territorial masters.
1. When War Declaration is announced between:
- Guild VS Guild - (within a area that has yet to have a keep) the first to bring down the other to 70% of HP left with Hammers and torches (for knockout status) win's and can collect X tax from the opponent.
- Keep VS Keep - is for Conquest and the winner forces out the other guild from the Keep , 50% of all house and 90% of the keep needs to be knocked out for a win.
- Rebel VS Land Owner (Special)
= All CURRENT houses are flagged, for war.
First with 3 keeps within a Country = Opens the option to begin building a Castle.
Special:
1. 3 keeps in a domain may ally and then vote upon 1 guild to be the ruler.
2. All Cities can ally and form a Nation the ruler must be voted in.
3. Allies, flags rebels houses within borders and are counted in to the total house hp/ wardec.
4. Pact's can be made with Rebels IF it’s done before a RebelDec (in a allied nation), thus enable piracy on allied country's houses without blowing Allied whistle.
Rebel's:
1. Rebels or Outlaws, Sets a Special WarDec to their 'sovereigns' all guild members houses are set for “Knock Out” status to 50% for first rebellion, 20% for second rebellion, and crushed on third.
2. A Rebel guild may have houses in other countries (without turning flagged), this to sneak in rebels under nations noses to weaken out the defense.
3. Rebels use Fire (Torches, Burning Oil/Rock Oil to boost damage) as siege weapon.
4. Keeps (owners) can rebel against Country Rulers (Castle).
5. Castle owners can rebel against Nation Rulers (Capital City).
6. Rebels can only use Torches on houses when a Rebel declaration is underway.
Siege Engines:
1. Can be built in Siege Workshops tied to Keeps.
2. Can be upgraded by upgrading keep T1 to T2.
3. Requires a Carpenter skill + Engineering siege engines A (small catapult), B (t2 keep heavy catapult) , C (Castle, Trebuchet)
4. Requires 3 people to operate; 1 person to aim, 1 person to place the stone, 1 person to draw back the rope.
5. Assemble and dissasemble, repairing , ties into Siege Workshop and Skill.
6. Wood, Metal and Rope type's play into the Damage/HP/Fire Resistance of the Siege Engine
Other types of Catapults : [COLOR=#0000ff]http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/war/Catapults.htm[/COLOR] , Some that could be ment as a good fixed defence on keeps and castles , not only for sieges but perhaps against flying dragons (if those will come).
Damage = Based on Engine type boulder and if there was a way to see what a house has been built of (not just HP) then that could come a play into the factor how much absorbation
from different kinds of boulders. Light Spongewood Boulders vs Keep made of Oghmium as to set extremes, should just give [0] Damage to keep body.
Damage = DoT, Clays with Palm Oil hurled at the keep or house and then set alight with torch , can also be used against a splash damage on humans in the area of impact + fire arrow.
Elaboration:
World is divided into Regions (territories taxed by Keeps), 3 Regions make a Country (Keeps taxed by a Castle), and uniting the Countries forges a Nation (Castle upgraded to Capital City).
What this means, is if Pompeii owns a house in Region X, Country Y, Nation Z, Pompeii could still be a member of a guild from Nation C, and rebel in the area his house is in. If Guild A thinks that Guild B is going to play the rebel card, they can declare war on Guild B and just knock down the houses currently placed by Guild B. This will open room for more political and spy work, etc; something a sandbox should deal with.
If a guild rebels against the keep owner, they’re aiming to overtake the keep owner position, if a keep owner rebels it’s a rebellion for the crown of the country. If the country wishes to outlaw the rebels for attacking their allies, they may do so, or a pact can be made in the case of a smaller guild wanting to make a move into someone’s domain. Small guild A sees the opportunity to move into another country and does so because their country (the region of their keep owner, and the country their region is part of) are their allies; and by playing the political card they can make a pact with their liege lord not to be made rebels/outlaws in both countries.
It turns the “Territory Control” mechanic from a simple “get 2,000 points” or “destroy Keep at 5 AM” into a strategic game where territory siege is a long-term process where you need to knock houses down to 50% to get them into “Knocked Out” stage, and knock the Keep (if present) itself down to 10% to get the Keep into “Knocked Out” stage. At which point you can capture the territory if you so choose, or demolish everything if you want to do so – but then you lose the tax base from the territory since nobody lives in those lands anymore.
Also, Rebels can tax people in the territory they are rebelling in if they manage to burn down houses (get them into “Knocked Out” state), to a certain point before the land owner wakes up. With the rebel mechanic like this, it can be made that with Rebellion 1 your houses have to be knocked down to 50%, Rebellion 2 they have to be knocked down to 20%, and Rebellion 3 they have to be completely destroyed.
That way, people won’t be able to just spam the Rebel card until they get what they want. Balance wise it’s there to remove usurpers that have been a threat in the region and aren’t tolerated there anymore, then the rebels will have to try a different route to gain support for their cause in other lands, build up a new base and go for the legit war declaration way.
Also that way, you already have to grind to keep your army/siege engines supplied and geared, so no need to pay for war declaration upkeep anymore.
The way this could be set up, is that 3 Keeps each tax their own region, but controlling all three – either through alliance agreements, voting, or conquest – gives the option to build a Castle. So, a Castle taxes the 3 Keeps which tax 3 Regions, and people can rebel in any of those three region if they want to gain power, overthrow the owners, or just get rid of tyrants.
Suggestions for the Future
What this system offers is a very solid foundation to build upon in the future. The fundamental idea is to introduce ONE SIMPLE MECHANIC – which affects everything that comes out of it.
Religion
A future Religion system could be added where a certain amount of Religion followers entitle the Church to gain control of the NPC cities in the Country of their Castles. Players could go on and create/name their own deities, but I feel God powers need to be left out, otherwise it will favor zerg-guilds who will have more people; thus more worshippers, thus more God-power spam.
I am more in favor of Religion being an additional layer towards unifying Keeps/Castles to declare a Crusade on the “infidels”, as well as being a way to tax NPC cities to the new religion or something similar. I don’t mean just Gold/Silver coins, why should Guild A have to tax their towns in silver when they only deal in Fur? Just tax the trade in general; deal in spice, drugs, skins, coffee, whatever rocks your boat.
It is very easy to set up a new “coin” trade system where it’s actually balanced with paper – XX NPC town has this in storage for you, you go to the City Storage and withdraw the items by handing in the paper, but you have to set up transport from the NPC town to your Castle/Keep yourself; not something that magically appears in your own bank.
That way, people have a reason to organize Caravans, invest in Mercenary Guilds if they don’t have their own guards, people in Brigand Guilds have a reason to raid Caravans, possibilities are endless.
House Improvements
With the Rebel mechanic, people have a reason to invest money into houses. A house built out of the best materials will burn a lot slower then a house with the cheapest materials available. Houses will need to be upgraded not just for access to more Modules, but also to provide security.
Land owners will have a reason to attract people to build houses on their land, it will be a very fine balance between spam-allowing everyone ( thus, allowing potential rebels to flock inside) or going into an isolation policy and not allowing anyone to build (thus, diminishing their potential Tax base).
Houses themselves could be improved by introducing customization and promoting individuality by tying it into the Skill System – interior decoration similar to SWG’s, add Masonry skills so people can plaster and then paint their houses (“Hey, I live in the yellow cottage close to the green one that’s a T2 down in the jungle!”), will be easy not to go overboard with colors as well, just have a nature-working color pallet for it, clay’s colors (brown, white, black, bright red, etc).
Skill Improvements
The very simple system I detailed above, opens up a wealth of options for adding new Skills and thus diversifying the game further, for example:
- Siege Engine require a Skill to construct a certain part of the Siege Engine,
- Siege Engine operation should require a Skill so people can specialize in their usage,
- Jewlery Skill can be added (What is a King without a Crown?),
- Tailoring Skill can be added (3-4 “sets” of clothes and you already have tons of possible combinations),
- Masonry Skill as detailed before to add customization to houses/construct Stone Walls, Towers, Moats, etc; can be tied into Engineering.
Tax Improvements
Tax is just a virtual measure so your house doesn’t fall down. If you stop paying it, the house will decay and the lord of the land will be angry, perhaps also land owners could set a “Rebel tag” on a house/house owner who builds in their lands without permission.
If you remove the normal tax system with Silver coins, and allow taxation of players on a different level like letting them pay in Bearskins for example. Then you take care of the resources on his house and keep it floating. I think a market system could be introduced within the realm of a territory, say it’s a miner’s town – your subjects have to work hard to pay in Silver, but they have tons of Gaborre, you place a virtual “coin” on that type of resource and let them pay off their debt/tax with it. Thus, your region might not be wealthy in Silver, but it might be wealthy in Stone. Stone that you can pay your liege lord with or sell in the city, if the liege lord wishes to be paid in Silver instead of Stone, much like the NPC towns currently.
The focus I believe should be on player-player interaction, you can even go full-out crazy here and allow the option to set certain animals within your region as protected; and if you kill those you’re outlawed. Springbox, or wolves, or razorbacks if you happen to like those. That way a black market on wolf pelts is generated, thieves could be drawn to fence in the city, etc.
The weather and the climate system will make it even more fun, as you can in one region have a problem setting houses on fire because its snowing or raining constantly.
Conclusion:
The system I propose is simple, sometimes simple is “win”. It adds a simple streamlined mechanic, on the other hand it adds many different layers to the game – and I’ve just scratched the surface with a few ideas on how it can be improved upon in the future.
Focus here is on player/player interaction, as I feel it should be in the sandbox. One simple system, ties in to everything and allows for expansion on all fronts in the future.
Quote:
The reason is based on a taxing of houses and if the players feel they are overtaxed not only will their house begin to drop HP cause of not beeing able to have upkeep but also there will be civic unrest and a rebellion can break out. A Zerg empire will only be able to stretch as far cause there is bound to be people to band together and try to break free. The system gives a higher purpose of playing the game with lawenforcement, taxing , sieges and also conquest in other regions of higher yields of reagents (less housing) something that will build the empire/kingdom/ or democratic nation. Be it a tyrrany or a democracy within a simple either vote between the leaders of the guild or total domination easy mechanics, Keep Stones can play a part of that. Setting of flags within a region of a domain of guilds, sertain individuals on a Outlaw status, some rebelling (rebel flag) , some living in guilds but non hostile and are abiding to the territory / citizen flag.
The Taxing of a Vendor income across the territory will be a nice addition of diffrent styles when keyed with individual taxing of houses. A t1 should not cost more to have than a t3.
The Siege System talks for itself where the T1 house has less HP than a T3 house and thus its in the Territory Holder to not only try to keep a fair tax but also have the houses built with good stones, metals, wood so that they can withstand more blows from SiegeEngines , think a T1 Oghmium / IronWood / Gabore house vs a T1 PigIron / SpongeWood / Saburra house. The outcome could be very funny to see if a small house region has better quality than a large house region. SiegeEngineDamage vs HouseMaterial = HP knockout / hit , 50 % and then the house is in MercyMode(Knocked Out).
The system i have, might at first look crazy but its simplistic and can be expanded from a simple keep vs keep war to a nation vs nation war without difficulty.
Sorry for the wall of text,
Pompeii.
I am just getting sick and tired when people mention it as a selling point.
Agreed. It is nothing more than an idea right now. A good idea...but only that.