Meh, community is great and the reason it is a great community is the same reason people on the outside think were friggin loons. It's because most here are passionate about their hobby. With passion heated arguments tend to spring up. It's a love hate thing. Some days people are calling me an ass hole, others they are agreeing with me expressing their fondness of a particular post and I do the same to others. Some days I'm praising a post by someone then others we're at each others throats lol. We've all been on various sides of the fence at different points in time for different games voicing our opinions for, against or undecided or simply voicing our neutrality.
Me, I'm just a crotchity old fart that loves MMO's. I like to think everyone else here is the same, well a lover of MMO's at least. I don't think you're all old men like me :P
So, while I appreciate the kind words and understand what you're saying I just don't see the heated debates stopping lol.
It's like a forum for Republicans and Democrats and every day there's a new bill or something for us to discuss as it's being worked on and finalized lol. As much as we want to work together and discuss this calmly and politely things are just bound to get heated and it generally just needs a single spark. At the end of the day though I don't think most take it personally.
Maybe it's just something that needs to be added to the list oO.
Rofl, yes we all dont have to agree. I don't mind snarky , funny and sometimes down right crazy. But when we get into personal thts when the ban hammer has to show up.
I wonder the stats on people reading any article and having a life altering event afterwards. Personally, although I may not be correct, it's probably pretty low; therefore the article is targeted at people who would agree with your point of view. Concordantly this would make it an exercise in futility and quite ironic.
I think given how often the state of the community gets discussed and debated, there probably is a problem.
I participate in a ton of different enthusiast forums of all kinds (not just technology) and all show passion and frequently host heated debates. Many of those debates often need to get locked before they go off the rails.
I do think, though that there is a difference between nearly any other enthusiast forum, and this one. Very often, on MMORPG, the "debate" ends up boiling down to a conflict between the entrenched set who truly, honestly, feel that there is an active conspiracy by "them" to overhype, underdeliver, and "screw" the public, and those who are more interesting in arguing the relative merits of the actual games.
There's a gigantic disconnect there, IMO. The former really want to debate the state of the industry (or the genre) in general. The latter are vested in individual games. I think this disparity leads to a bad signal to noise ratio here.
Ill use an analogy even though I generally steer clear of them... If you think about a political forum... The equivalent would be the folks who really just feel *all* government is bad and want massive (and often undefined and unrealistic) change vs those who actually want to get down to discussing specific policy.
On a LOT of threads here, the former group is a lot louder. There is a lot of bullying into the broad conclusion that "XYZ SUCKS!" because... well because the whole genre sucks until "someone stops SCREWING the PEOPLE and DELIVERS!" I mean how often can that point be made before it runs out of gas? I've even seen threads here just coming out up front and stating it directly "MMOs SUCK!!!!" At least those are honest, I guess.
I often wonder why folks who are so dissatisfied dont just move on. The answer is always because they are "so passionate" and 'care so much" and want to "fight for change". Personally, I think it is more that they like to argue and are so embittered that they just want to agitate.
Pretending that isnt a bigger issue on these forums than on a typical gaming forum is a stretch IMO.
thanks for the wall of worthless text maybe next week you can actually write about something worth the .0000003 seconds it takes to load MMORPG's home page.
yeah that was a tad harsh more sarcastic really than mean but comeon boring READ.
It's unfortunate that things are so tight around here these days.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
thanks for the wall of worthless text maybe next week you can actually write about something worth the .0000003 seconds it takes to load MMORPG's home page.
yeah that was a tad harsh more sarcastic really than mean but comeon boring READ.
I have no idea what this is all about. I'm just chiming in here with my "two cents" anyway, because well...that's what we're supposed to do here, right? Comment without reading anything and whatnot? So....whatever anyone said....I don't agree with it.
No....I really don't. I think you're all out of your minds.
Blah blah...blah blah blah. Yeah, I said it....so sue me. And FURTHERMORE.....
Wait. What was I saying? Oh screw it....nevermind. Just know that....I don't agree.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't agree that we don't have to agree. We all have to agree. But wait, I just didn't agree! OH NOOO!!!!
I'm using this as my new go-to logic error loop for when the robots take over.
As to the article... yes most can agree that we don't have to agree, but most of the issues in these forums occur from blatant trolls or from people who are simply mis-informed and refuse to become more educated on the topic they are trying to argue.
The article was a good one and made me think I could be less grumpy in my posts.
I just wanted to say too though that we ought to be careful not to go too far the other way. That is, all opinions are not equal. An opinion can be "wrong" in the sense that it is based on outdated information, or false information, or even false logic. It is also true that some opinions are of more value than others in the sense that we naturally seek out opinion from certain people because we value the way their mind works, or their experience.
When true debate goes on then opinions form and reform and people think through the arguments. It happens every now and again here.
Great article, thanks. Gets me to thinking about my replies to posts sometimes, and how they might sometimes come across as me being on the old high horse. Agree totally that it is fine to disagree, but to try not to berate, ridicule and/or personally attack the poster we disagree with is a good idea.
@ mumbojumbo, I love that cartoon, lol, makes me smile every time ^^
I love a good debate as long as the debate sticks to the issues and facts.
Unfortunatly most debates turn i nto arguments.
Definition of an argument:
Waiting in half dead exasperation for the other idiot to shut up so you can jump in with the wisdom of the ages.
Good debates are fun and everyone involved can learn something from them. Arguments are a waste of time .......tho I'm sure some would argue that point.
Comments
Yes
QFT
or at least it's that way in my house
I don't agree that we don't have to agree. We all have to agree. But wait, I just didn't agree! OH NOOO!!!!
Meh, community is great and the reason it is a great community is the same reason people on the outside think were friggin loons. It's because most here are passionate about their hobby. With passion heated arguments tend to spring up. It's a love hate thing. Some days people are calling me an ass hole, others they are agreeing with me expressing their fondness of a particular post and I do the same to others. Some days I'm praising a post by someone then others we're at each others throats lol. We've all been on various sides of the fence at different points in time for different games voicing our opinions for, against or undecided or simply voicing our neutrality.
Me, I'm just a crotchity old fart that loves MMO's. I like to think everyone else here is the same, well a lover of MMO's at least. I don't think you're all old men like me :P
So, while I appreciate the kind words and understand what you're saying I just don't see the heated debates stopping lol.
It's like a forum for Republicans and Democrats and every day there's a new bill or something for us to discuss as it's being worked on and finalized lol. As much as we want to work together and discuss this calmly and politely things are just bound to get heated and it generally just needs a single spark. At the end of the day though I don't think most take it personally.
Maybe it's just something that needs to be added to the list oO.
Things to Avoid discussing at work
1) Politics
2) Religion
3) MMO's
lol!
Rofl, yes we all dont have to agree. I don't mind snarky , funny and sometimes down right crazy. But when we get into personal thts when the ban hammer has to show up.
I agree, no I disagree ...... ad infinitum
It is the curse of Anon...people will argue over the silliest things if you dont know who they are.
Nothing you can do about it.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
I wonder the stats on people reading any article and having a life altering event afterwards. Personally, although I may not be correct, it's probably pretty low; therefore the article is targeted at people who would agree with your point of view. Concordantly this would make it an exercise in futility and quite ironic.
I think given how often the state of the community gets discussed and debated, there probably is a problem.
I participate in a ton of different enthusiast forums of all kinds (not just technology) and all show passion and frequently host heated debates. Many of those debates often need to get locked before they go off the rails.
I do think, though that there is a difference between nearly any other enthusiast forum, and this one. Very often, on MMORPG, the "debate" ends up boiling down to a conflict between the entrenched set who truly, honestly, feel that there is an active conspiracy by "them" to overhype, underdeliver, and "screw" the public, and those who are more interesting in arguing the relative merits of the actual games.
There's a gigantic disconnect there, IMO. The former really want to debate the state of the industry (or the genre) in general. The latter are vested in individual games. I think this disparity leads to a bad signal to noise ratio here.
Ill use an analogy even though I generally steer clear of them... If you think about a political forum... The equivalent would be the folks who really just feel *all* government is bad and want massive (and often undefined and unrealistic) change vs those who actually want to get down to discussing specific policy.
On a LOT of threads here, the former group is a lot louder. There is a lot of bullying into the broad conclusion that "XYZ SUCKS!" because... well because the whole genre sucks until "someone stops SCREWING the PEOPLE and DELIVERS!" I mean how often can that point be made before it runs out of gas? I've even seen threads here just coming out up front and stating it directly "MMOs SUCK!!!!" At least those are honest, I guess.
I often wonder why folks who are so dissatisfied dont just move on. The answer is always because they are "so passionate" and 'care so much" and want to "fight for change". Personally, I think it is more that they like to argue and are so embittered that they just want to agitate.
Pretending that isnt a bigger issue on these forums than on a typical gaming forum is a stretch IMO.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
thanks for the wall of worthless text maybe next week you can actually write about something worth the .0000003 seconds it takes to load MMORPG's home page.
yeah that was a tad harsh more sarcastic really than mean but comeon boring READ.
Totem
this is , priceless haha.
and yes everyone is "still" "allowed" "free" speach ... geesh lots of " " ... We should all make use of it before its too late.
Kudos For the Article , loved it.
It's unfortunate that things are so tight around here these days.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
Here. I'll make it up to you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNxygsLGHSQ
I have no idea what this is all about. I'm just chiming in here with my "two cents" anyway, because well...that's what we're supposed to do here, right? Comment without reading anything and whatnot? So....whatever anyone said....I don't agree with it.
No....I really don't. I think you're all out of your minds.
Blah blah...blah blah blah. Yeah, I said it....so sue me. And FURTHERMORE.....
Wait. What was I saying? Oh screw it....nevermind. Just know that....I don't agree.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
We don't have to debate.
Have you stopped beating her yet?
Forums are for PVP.
Whether you agree or not.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm using this as my new go-to logic error loop for when the robots take over.
As to the article... yes most can agree that we don't have to agree, but most of the issues in these forums occur from blatant trolls or from people who are simply mis-informed and refuse to become more educated on the topic they are trying to argue.
The article was a good one and made me think I could be less grumpy in my posts.
I just wanted to say too though that we ought to be careful not to go too far the other way. That is, all opinions are not equal. An opinion can be "wrong" in the sense that it is based on outdated information, or false information, or even false logic. It is also true that some opinions are of more value than others in the sense that we naturally seek out opinion from certain people because we value the way their mind works, or their experience.
When true debate goes on then opinions form and reform and people think through the arguments. It happens every now and again here.
This is exactly why I love the religion and politics threads in this forum.
Timely post, Bill. Well said, Well spoken.
you sir, are my hero.
I agree!
Wait, no I don't.
Argh! Curse you and your brain-twisting ways!
Great article, thanks. Gets me to thinking about my replies to posts sometimes, and how they might sometimes come across as me being on the old high horse. Agree totally that it is fine to disagree, but to try not to berate, ridicule and/or personally attack the poster we disagree with is a good idea.
@ mumbojumbo, I love that cartoon, lol, makes me smile every time ^^
Great read !!
I love a good debate as long as the debate sticks to the issues and facts.
Unfortunatly most debates turn i nto arguments.
Definition of an argument:
Waiting in half dead exasperation for the other idiot to shut up so you can jump in with the wisdom of the ages.
Good debates are fun and everyone involved can learn something from them. Arguments are a waste of time .......tho I'm sure some would argue that point.