Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
General: We Don't HAVE to Agree
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
The full title of Bill Murphy's latest column here at MMORPG.com is actually "We Don’t Have To Agree: A Public Service Announcement". In the column, Bill talks about the great diversity of opinion found here on the MMORPG.com forums and he reminds us that it's OK to disagree. Check it out and then head to the forums to...disagree (or not!).
I love our forums. I love every single one of its dwellers and vocal participants. This forum is living proof that the human species is a varied and multidimensional collection of ideals. While many of said ideals are shared between different “sects” of members, just like any are of discussion we have a lively and cacophonous blend of voices that gives me something new to read each and every day. And while many people on the outside looking in at our constant debates here at MMORPG.com might shrug, their brow furrowed, and say, “Who the hell cares? It’s videogames”. We will proudly proclaim that we care, and we care enough to spend time debating the finer points of our hobby and passion.
Read more of Bill Murphy's column, We Don’t Have To Agree: A Public Service Announcement.
)
Comments
NO Bill, you're WRONG. We all HAVE to agree. Jeez, when will you finally get a clue?!
Good article bro.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
You almost quoted Voltaire - "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." There was a harsher death penalty in his time too.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
"Opinions are like rectums; everybody has one, and they all stink."
I am guilty of falling prey to my less-than-reasonable side when it comes to my participation in the forums. My biggest problem is that I don't have the skills to deal with people whose entire belief system is based on dogma and hyperbole, conveniently ignoring factual evidence to the contrary.
The article was a good read, though it sounded just a little too condescending. Try not to sound like you're speaking "from on high" the next time. In other words, don't preach. You'll find that you have a much more receptive audience when they can see you as a peer, and not as some schoolmaster who is rolling his eyes and clucking his tongue at his misbehaving charges.
I'm sorry I have to say this but:
Can we get some mods to lay off the lock topic button and try to learn the difference between snarkness in a post and baiting? A good many threads have been locked that had very interesting discussions going on (while admittingly heated) with no personal attacks what so ever. I think the difference between the two are this:
BAITING- knowingly using unproven hyperbolic statements to draw out negative behavior of others.
Example: "WoW is made for kids."
SNARKY- pointing out less than flattering faults in something that may very well be a fact.
Example: "A lot of kids play WoW."
One sparks outrage first and maybe followed by a rebuttal.
Example: "How can you believe something so retarded!"
The other sparks a deflection first and maybe followed up with a rubuttal.
Example: "That maybe but a lot of adults do as well."
But you may disagree with my observation all together.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I disagree. Yes we do HAVE to.
At this point I just note that in recent memory, three out of few columnist have contributed an opinion on this very community and — more or less polite — pointed out that something is wrong, with tips how to fix it.
This is interesting.
If you have an issue with thread locks/infraction/etc. please take it up with MikeB, our CM, he will gladly look over it for you. That being said, discussing moderation is against our RoC. So let's not discuss it any further, at least in this thread.
Thanks!
MikeB's email : [email protected]
Nothing is wrong with the community
There is something wrong with games ( i mean MMO games )
When a rare good MMO commes along, discussions are usually very calm.
I dont see much flames in LOTRO forum, or GW2 forum. Yet even simplest remark sparks 500 posts on SWTOR forum.
But yes. On the end we are very passionate about the games. And under all that quarel there is lot to learn about various MMOs. That is why we all frequent this forums.
Well said, Bill. TBH I've been banging this drum for a while, but... it just gets ignored.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
We all don't have to agree, but you all must agree with me.
That's one of the good things about this forum, it's when we get a good thread like this we can agree to disagree with each other.
I totally don't agree with this....
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
The issue is that the gw 2 audience that seems to hate sw tor is already calling a game a failure. Printing that they have spent 300-900 million dollars on the game when they have a 150 mil budget just like most aaa mmo's and other falsehoods.
Now the crowd that doesnt like it because its not star wars galaxies 2 or a sandbox u have to right to not like it.
If u dont like how space combat is being done fine. I have no issue with it but i was looking forward to ground combat more then space combat anyways. I didnt even expect space combat.
But those who call a game a failure 6 months before it releases and tries to say they spent 2 or 10 times what bioware itself says they have spent. And all that arent facts. Its just falsehoods to try to scare peple like me off from tryign it out.
IM sorry but any game 6 months before its release isnt a failure . We know it will be released . So unless bioware pulls the plug prior to release this game isnt a faulure yet depsite people saying otherwise.
I have no issue with those not wanting a themepark mmo thats your right but to make outright lies about his game and to support a guy like ea louse as fact when they stated they didnt know anything about tor and hadnt even worked on it but it would fail is ridiculous.
What most posters forget to acknowledge is the fact that people can have different opinions on issues, and they're perfectly entitled to have them.
Whether it be PvE vs PvP, F2P vs P2P, Cash shop vs no cash shop, etc, all positions are valid, because they are simply a matter of opinion. it becomes a problem however, when certain 'opinions' or 'choices' are attempted to be forced upon posters/players who feel otherwise.
Interesting the number of these articles lately that have been about the behavior of posters and not on the subject (mmorpgs) that this site is all about.
I can understand the frustration that people feel when others seem to take something far beyond a rational response on these or any other web boards. But unless they break the rules of the actual TOS, I don't feel that you, or I, or anyone else has the right criticize them on how they should express their feelings, wants, hopes, or ideas.
Oh well. Maybe we all just need a big ol time out. I think I'll start mine now. See you all in a couple of months. Maybe by then we will have something worth talking about, rather than just complaining about.
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, riddle 'em with bullets
Don't tell it to us tell it to developers. Developers failing to realize that not everyone is the same is the reason why MMORPGS are in the shitter.
I have no issue wiht opinions based on types of game. I personally didnt like gw 1 i find the no dedicate healer class problematic. I read the story on gw 2 dungeons and how everyoen can heal but what happens if 2 people decide to heal in the middle or no one decides to change to heal if your healer dies?
To me it makes no sense to get rid of healer class there are loads of gamers who play just so they can be a healer. And gw 2 is gettign rid of it. I dont go flaming gw 2 discussions claming gw has spent 500 mil on there game and its gonna be an epic fail though. Not like the anti tor crowd does.
I have no issue with people disagreeing with me . I know some people dont like wows graphics i personally like wows graphics. I have no issue if u dont like wow when i personally love wow. But some people flame wow for stuff thats just plain not true.
Stating that the majority of wow players never played any other mmos, That they only play cause its the it game and that only 5 pct of population hits max level are blatantly false.
So yea people have a right to disagree and to not like the same games. But what i have issues with is when people go around blatently spreading lies as facts and as the absolute truth when in facts its just a blatant lie to support there position because the truth is the facts arent on there side.
QFE
I think people forget that stating an opinion is not the same as handing down an edict from on high.
So many times, posters seem to take tremendous offense when what they say is not taken as the Gospel. You better believe it was delivered that way, lol.
At the end of the day, whatever you or I say is only what WE think--no more and no less. It carries no more weight than what the next guy says--we just add our flavor to the stew that is a'brewin'.
It does get a bit heavy handed around here.
Um, yes we do! We have to agree. If you don't agree with me it's a personal attack against my [everything] and I am therefore justified in trolling you. Duh.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
These aren't just "regular" forums.
In regular forumboards, one can be neutral and doesn't have to worry a thread being deleted or locked because a person gets in the way of profits. Not here...This forum has a giant problem with ego and has lead to professionals leaving and a lot of scrutiny. The only reason I remain here is under hope that maybe people would show an ounce of intelligence where it counts and fix themselves.
I am not saying that I am without fault, but when the egotists here argue with "professionals" who are deep in their industry and "opinion" sides against fact, these professional all say "let them believe in whatever they want to" and they leave to continue their work. I can give you a list of people who have come and gone in the last six months and you wouldn't believe the people you have driven away.
All I like here is the games database and some blogs. I will be happy once people here learn the definition of respect and show some civility. This site to me is like the 4Chan of MMOs.
In principle I agree with this article but for the discussion to be constructive some kind of concensus need to be reached by atleast a large portion of debaters. Otherwise it will be quite worthless for any existing or future devs that may be reading your forums and then what would the point of it all?
Beside venting that is...
My gaming blog
Heartily agree Lobo.
And good article Bill.
If I say something out loud when my wife isn't home, am I still wrong?
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.