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Will sci-fi MMOs ever shed their fantasy derived shackles?
Cavadus
Member UncommonPosts: 707
DISCLAIMER: I'm talking about ground based games.
I hate fantasy. I like the concept of MMOs. I universally dislike every MMO released to date for one reason or another. Some games get a few things right. I really like the Tabula Rasa/Global Agenda combat engines. I enjoyed TR's unique skill advancement. I really dug (pre-NGE) SWG's forced character interdependence and it's still unmatched crafting system.
But why-oh-why are almost all sci-fi MMOs just fantasy games with some shitty LED lights poured over the top?
Why do they force denizens of the distant future to wander around everywhere on foot, fighting at ranges which are absolutely silly, and not letting players do something as simple as send text messages/call people from anywhere? I just finished some quest and I can't get on the walkie to let him know? I have to walk back?
Why does my super futuristic laser gun thingie have a range of 50 meters? For some perspective, 50 meters is the closest target to a soldier during a U.S. Army rifle qualification.
Why, instead of just using technology, do sci-fi games still force magic into the systems? In Tabula Rasa we had "The Logos", in Fallen Earth there are the mutations, in SWG there was the force (but at least that made contextual sense, I guess).
Why do these games toss in some "badass dude with a sword" class thing that always wtfbbqpwns all ranged players? Saw this in SWG, Tabula Rasa, Global Agenda (they finally nerfed DDs a few weeks ago), and Fallen Earth.
Why aren't there vehicles in the future?
Why can't I get my on my PDA-phone-thing and check out the game's equivalent to eBay from anywhere I have (virtual) reception?
Why am I still fighting elves and orcs and dragons and shit?
Why is every (ground based) sci-fi MMO just a shitty fantasy MMO with some futuristic meshes and textures sprinkled in?
I can look at all of the sci-fi MMOs I've ever played and say, with a straight face, that today's technology generally puts that fictional world to shame. None of these sci-fi MMOs even bothered to give players a device capable of what a modern smart phone can achieve.
So I have to ask, why the hell aren't science fiction MMOs actually... y'know, science ****ing fiction?
Comments
Because science fiction is boring when you get right down to it.........think about it.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Well there is Eve Online. That has to be the closest non fantasy MMO game i've seen out there. Only problem with it maybe that you might have is your stuck in a ship.
Archlinux ftw
Clearly.
Thanks for reading the disclaimer (the very first sentence which is bolded and underlined).
Maybe I should have colored it red or something...
Maybe you should make one.
lower expectations, try looking again
In a way, they already have. AO is quite old, now, but it was successful with its Sci-Fi setting. Same could be said for Ryzom just no one really plays it. If they fixed the UI I would be back in a giffy; just not a fan of the UI. And let us not forget about the pure win of Hello Kitty Online's amazing Sci-Fi setting
Considering that sci-fi itself is based off an extrapolation of fantasy elements, it is difficult for them not to be included, no?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Umm ... What? How is SciFi derivative of Fantasy elements?
science fiction = fantasy no? simply a sun-genre of the genre. scifi would involve technological advancements and predictions of technologies that may not exist yet and because of this are purely the fantasy of the writer.
Science vs. Magic is generally the main distinguishing underlying difference between the two. A technological explanation vs. a mystical explanation.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Ahhh, I see. You're using "fantasy" in the sense of fiction not based on realism. However, the OP seems to be specifically referring to the High(/Low) Fantasy genre(s).
As for Avatar... it's Disney's Pocahontas with blue cat people. Not profoundly pure Sci-Fi.
As for the original topic, I can see what you mean, though I'm big on the sci-fi/fantasy crossovers personally (a steampunk fantasy MMO would make me cry like a little girl). Unfortunately, the hard sci-fi you're looking for tends to be considered somewhat "sterile" to a lot of people, which is to say lacking the glitz and epic sentiment that a lot of people want from their immersion of choice. Blade Runner, for example, will always be a bit more niche than Lord of the Rings, as done to death as LotR may be.
That said, I've known quite a few people with your outlook, so who knows? Maybe the hard sci-fi MMO is due.
Fantasy is an extrapolation using Myth and Religion as a backdrop to create a completely different universe / world (look at Lord of the Rings, which is the perennial fantasy work, although 'fantasy' did exist before this).
Science Fiction is as much fantasy as any fiction is (because it's not real, right?). Science Fiction has it's roots in Gothic Literature (key example, and widely regarded as the first "Science Fiction novel" would be Frankenstein). Hard Science Fiction is an attempt to predict what sort of technologies we will have in the future and how they will affect our lives (see authors like Clarke or Asimov, or even Bradbury). Soft Science Fiction is often just a good pulp story, or a focus on the human aspect in a futuristic setting (like Avatar).
I agree with the above poster. Too many people view pure scientific exploration as sterile and boring. After all, Rendezvous with Rama might make a great setting, but in an MMO world would be very boring (after a bit everyone would discover everything).
I would like to see ideas like "tanking" and "mage classes" avoided in good SciFi. But, games like Anarchy Online did a pretty good job of integrating the "mage" class (the nanomage) and still explaining it with Technology.
Take Star Trek as an example, if you will. Sci-Fi, yes?
Instead of it being the starship Enterprise, make it the galleon Enterprise. Instead of it being crewed by officers of Starfleet, it is crewed by members of the Armada. Instead of the United Federation of Planets, you have the United Federation of Nations. Instead of it being comprised of various alien races, it is comprised of various fantasy races. The mission is to explore the vast seas and to go where no man has gone before... they come across other fantasy races and other alliances of nations in their exploration. Instead of using a transporter, you have wizards that teleport the landing parties to the shore. Instead of photon torpedoes and phasers, you have fireballs and lighting bolts. Instead of facing strange ship sized monsters roaming the stars, you face strange ship sized monsters roaming the seas.
You have changed the setting - location and time. You have changed the technology behind it - science vs. magic. Etc, etc, etc...
...but in the end, Star Trek is Fantasy.
As somebody else pointed out, Sci-Fi is just a subgenre of Fantasy.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
And you could do the exact same thing to make it modern, or anything else, thats because its fiction, there all just fiction and there all gonna be interchangeable, you couldnt give one ip that you couldnt just change everything and make it a different setting.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
I'm with the OP on this one. I am sick to the back teeth of Dwarves, Elves, Orcs and bloody Dragons!!!
I have never been able to play a Fantasy MMO for more than a few months except from Age of Conan (which I played for 18 months), but I consider that to be a more Low Fantasy style of game. High Fantasy MMO's, the longest I have ever lasted is 4 months in WoW Pre-TBC.
We really need some more options in this genre. There are a few games in development that I have my eye on though, so the situation is getting slightly better. I only hope that Funcom and Masthead release The Secret World and Earthrise when they are ready and not before. As for SW:ToR, I trust in BioWare to release a fun, polished product. They have never let me down before, and I don't expect them to start now.
MMORPG History:
Playing - EVE Online.
Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
The stories of Conan and Hyboria are often considered the #1 example, if not one of the founding fathers, of the Low Fantasy genre. So dead right, on that score!
Sad fact is, MMOs (especially "AAA" games) are obscenely expensive to make and maintain. Thanks to that, the more niche genres that a lot of us may know and love tend to get pushed aside for tried-and-true formulae and existing IPs. Part of why I played City of Heroes for so long, even years after I got sick to death of the game itself: Thanks to the fluidity of the "supers" comic book genre, I could turn my slice of the game into whatever I wanted it to be at the time, and just ignore XxSuper-manxX dancing next to me on the tram.
As much as I liked and played AO for many years, it's not really that much of a sci-fi game, it's a fantasy game set in a sci-fi universe. Their nano system is just another name for casting spells. Lots of people are out swinging swords around, whacking monsters. Far too many pseudo-sci-fi games do the exact same things. Instead of calling them elves and hobbits, they call them aliens. Same stuff, different veneer.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Not sure how you could make Star Trek Modern. In a Modern setting, where are you going to explore? How would you come across new people? There are too many elements in Star Trek that could not exist in a Modern setting. It works fine in a Fantasy setting, because Sci-Fi is extrapolated from Fantasy with a different explanation...
...we have two main places to explore - the seas and space. To do either, you have crossed over into more speculative fiction...usually near future Sci-Fi as opposed to Modern.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Actually sci/fi and fantasy are 2 diffrent things usually lumped together in the same genre. Fantasy is usually based in a world with little to no technology. Sci fi is more about future and space and things like that. Science fiction is based on science but has alot of stuff that may or may not be possible in a real world now or in the future. Fantasy is just that a fantasy world set in medieval times usually.
That said star wars and star trek are 2 sci fi mmos out already in galaxies and sto. that arent fantasy based. Tor wont be a fantasy based mmo either. Eve online has nothing to do with fantasy as far as i know its a pvp game set in space. U fight other players. I dont think they haave dwarves or dragons.
Most rpgs are set in fantasy worlds because they all involve magic classes. Granted jedi/sith can be seen as magical but arent really. And even star wars is more of a fantasy. Just without the dwarves and elves and dragons.
That said im sure someone most like jumpgate evolution will come out with a game soon that has no fantasy world npc's to fight. That doesnt mean u wont have reptillian or other kinds of races. In sci fi usually the bad guys arent other humans or if they are theres always some sort of alien involved.
So in closing yes a sci fi mmo could exist without thouse fantasy elements and i dont think all sci fi mmos have fantasy in them
the biggest issue is most of the mmorpgs are fantasy games so uc ant get away from fantasy in fantasy worlds.
That's what happens when you name your genre and sub-genre the same thing. There's a difference between "fantasy", the set of all things not based on demonstrable reality, and "fantasy", a sub-genre of swords and sorcery. You can't just switch between the two at a whim, saying that everything is fantasy when it's clear the OP was talking about the sub-genre.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I did not get that from what the OP stated in the least. The OP was very clear on the issues - no common fantasy races, no mystical magic, actual use of technology, and vehicles.
That is not a discussion of the arguable differences between High/Low Fantasy.
Besides, Speculative Fiction -> Fantasy -> Sci-Fi... I have not heard somebody use the term "Fantasy" to cover all speculative fiction.
Futuristic technology could easily be seen as magic, depending on who is looking at it. That argument would probably be considered nitpicking though.
When the OP was specific on what they wanted, it was fine. When they generalized is when the tangent debating genres took form...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Sorry to say but Before mmo there were already science fiction and some of them had their settings that included 'magic' as exemple warhammer 40k ... orks elfs etc. Alot of science fiction mmos are IPs, dev are getting lazy, they dont want to create their own settings.
As for the range of the weapons... its easy to unerstand, who would like to play a game that you can get killed by someone you dont even see because hes camped 4kms aways and just waiting for some one move into his trap ? That would be boring as hell. Why still the melee people ? i dont know about bad ass guys but, Im pretty sure there will always be some assasins with backstabbing skills in the future. as for the vehicules, well i guess if you want to play a land base mmo you have to exclude them because if you have land vehicules you will alsome have air and space vehicules wich is the opposite of land base mmo.
Now if you check for a mmo that has no magic, check perpetuum you control a mech and that is no magic and its 100% land base (still in beta i think ). The setting is original and has some real chances to survive. It has a Eve basis for fitting your mech and market. STO has no magic but has some space and land action.
Btw about the 'magic thing' in mmo i like it, it gives us a chance to make something different compared to a guy with guns... If you realy want a game land base with only guns.. go play unreal or quake.
Uh, fiction IS fantasy.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
I've said it before and I'm going to say it again: Neocron
It hasn't got the healthiest population I guess, though I haven't played for a while.
Anyway I can remember as if it were yesterday the last time I killed a Warbot with my Sniper Rifle from the other end of the zone (well more or less) and cruising through the wastelands with my hover bike.
The fact that this game is rather old makes it even sadder that there isn't another (scifi) game out there with similar features (above all: free moving vehicles).