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How is Alganon staying afloat?

FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,303

Based on populations, I don't possibly see how Alganon can be a money making prospect at this point.  The cost of servers and employees has to be much much larger than they can be bringing in from new customers.

 

It's probably a tough situation for the investors, as they are probably propping QoL up in the eventual hope of turning the financial situation around, rather than facing millions in lost dollars.  It sounds like they are planning to open a server or two in Europe and I wish them luck.  But I think the investors need to realize that current management hasn't and most likely can't turn things around and that they need someone with current MMO experience.

 

Alganon seems like a game that deserves a niche in the market, but if it's hemorrhaging money daily isn't it time to make a change?

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Comments

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    Based on populations, I don't possibly see how Alganon can be a money making prospect at this point.  The cost of servers and employees has to be much much larger than they can be bringing in from new customers.

     

    It's probably a tough situation for the investors, as they are probably propping QoL up in the eventual hope of turning the financial situation around, rather than facing millions in lost dollars.  It sounds like they are planning to open a server or two in Europe and I wish them luck.  But I think the investors need to realize that current management hasn't and most likely can't turn things around and that they need someone with current MMO experience.

     

    Alganon seems like a game that deserves a niche in the market, but if it's hemorrhaging money daily isn't it time to make a change?

    Good question.  There are cost savings benefits, such as no centralized office (everybody's virtual, I believe), servers hosted by one of the investors, art outsourced (originally by a studio in Romania and whose only product was Alganon), etc..  If I had to guess, I'd say the actual staff is pretty small.  As such, they're can basically run the game without incurring too much overhead. 

    That being said, I can't see, with how things are today, how the investors are going to be able to recoup their millions of dollars invested, much less make a profit. There are never more than a dozen (sometimes just a couple of players) players online (in my race) whenever I login, at any time.  Right now, I'm trying to craft a couple of upgrade items for myself and I need ingredients from other professions - I've put in requisitions for those items in the auction house and they're not being fulfilled, because there's nobody to fill them for me. The servers are basically dead. 

    Alganon game play is pretty good, albeit with a ton of issues.  It has potential to be a really great F2P option, rivaling a game like Runes of Magic.  So, what's it going to take to be financially viable, much less profitable?


    • Players - It obviously needs a very large influx of players, but it all needs to be able to retain those players and convert X % into paying customers.  F2P games, in general, tend to strive for the 89/10/1 rule - 89% of players will never spend money, 10% will spend some and 1% will spend a lot.  This ties directly into the ARPU (Average Revenue per User) and ARPPU (Average Revenue per Paying User), as well as the AMPU (Average Margin per User). How will attract and retain players?

      • Fixes - the game has a ton of issues, many of which are unacceptable at this point in it's released life (major geometry and pathing problems abound). Personally, I'd love the see the game still open, but reverted to "beta" status.

      • Revenue Model - it needs changes.  Having to pay to chat is going to turn off most players right from the beginning. There are pets that can be unlocked via studies and with in-game currency, which would be great for a p2p or GW model, but not for F2P.  Pets are highly coveted cash shop items.  Convert non-combat pets to cash shop items, IMO.  Same with mounts.  They're not critical to play, but for convenience, which makes them perfect for the Tribute Market.

      • Features and content - The game has some great features, such as studies, crafting, pets, mounts, requisition system,library, MyAlganon.com, etc,,, but it also needs PvP, more group content, player housing (a great cash shop sink) etc..

      • Consolidate Servers - there are two US servers now and there's no justification for having them.  The population is dismal and needs to be combined.  Having a higher concentration of players on a single server is better for all current players.  Expand as needed in the future.

      • Marketing - after fixing issues and adding features and content, market the hell out of the game!  Relaunch it with a new name! Do things like Frogster and RoM, where every player gets a 24 mount on every new character - it's the crack dealer approach - the first hit is free and even though players don't need a mount, they definitely miss it and want it after the 24 hour one expires!

    ~Ripper

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Member Posts: 2,414

    Originally posted by rhinok

    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    Based on populations, I don't possibly see how Alganon can be a money making prospect at this point.  The cost of servers and employees has to be much much larger than they can be bringing in from new customers.

     

    It's probably a tough situation for the investors, as they are probably propping QoL up in the eventual hope of turning the financial situation around, rather than facing millions in lost dollars.  It sounds like they are planning to open a server or two in Europe and I wish them luck.  But I think the investors need to realize that current management hasn't and most likely can't turn things around and that they need someone with current MMO experience.

     

    Alganon seems like a game that deserves a niche in the market, but if it's hemorrhaging money daily isn't it time to make a change?

    Good question.  There are cost savings benefits, such as no centralized office (everybody's virtual, I believe), servers hosted by one of the investors, art outsourced (originally by a studio in Romania and whose only product was Alganon), etc..  If I had to guess, I'd say the actual staff is pretty small.  As such, they're can basically run the game without incurring too much overhead. 

    That being said, I can't see, with how things are today, how the investors are going to be able to recoup their millions of dollars invested, much less make a profit. There are never more than a dozen (sometimes just a couple of players) players online (in my race) whenever I login, at any time.  Right now, I'm trying to craft a couple of upgrade items for myself and I need ingredients from other professions - I've put in requisitions for those items in the auction house and they're not being fulfilled, because there's nobody to fill them for me. The servers are basically dead. 

    Alganon game play is pretty good, albeit with a ton of issues.  It has potential to be a really great F2P option, rivaling a game like Runes of Magic.  So, what's it going to take to be financially viable, much less profitable?


    • Players - It obviously needs a very large influx of players, but it all needs to be able to retain those players and convert X % into paying customers.  F2P games, in general, tend to strive for the 89/10/1 rule - 89% of players will never spend money, 10% will spend some and 1% will spend a lot.  This ties directly into the ARPU (Average Revenue per User) and ARPPU (Average Revenue per Paying User), as well as the AMPU (Average Margin per User). How will attract and retain players?

      • Fixes - the game has a ton of issues, many of which are unacceptable at this point in it's released life (major geometry and pathing problems abound). Personally, I'd love the see the game still open, but reverted to "beta" status.

      • Revenue Model - it needs changes.  Having to pay to chat is going to turn off most players right from the beginning. There are pets that can be unlocked via studies and with in-game currency, which would be great for a p2p or GW model, but not for F2P.  Pets are highly coveted cash shop items.  Convert non-combat pets to cash shop items, IMO.  Same with mounts.  They're not critical to play, but for convenience, which makes them perfect for the Tribute Market.

      • Features and content - The game has some great features, such as studies, crafting, pets, mounts, requisition system,library, MyAlganon.com, etc,,, but it also needs PvP, more group content, player housing (a great cash shop sink) etc..

      • Consolidate Servers - there are two US servers now and there's no justification for having them.  The population is dismal and needs to be combined.  Having a higher concentration of players on a single server is better for all current players.  Expand as needed in the future.

      • Marketing - after fixing issues and adding features and content, market the hell out of the game!  Relaunch it with a new name! Do things like Frogster and RoM, where every player gets a 24 mount on every new character - it's the crack dealer approach - the first hit is free and even though players don't need a mount, they definitely miss it and want it after the 24 hour one expires!

    ~Ripper

    You forgot one very important change they'd need to even hope to survive. Dump Derek Smart, or muzzle his ass. Make him a "silent" partner, literally.

    Allow him to continue opening his mouth, especially directly to customers on the official forums but also on the web in general in relation to Alganon matters, and noone will come back and new players will continue to be run away. Noone wants to pay money to be harassed by an egotistical prick, outside of a few masochists that also prefer chains and whips with their breakfast cereal.

    The latest issue with David Allen coming out on top after all the threats, rants, and blustering from Derek Smart has made not only Derek Smart, but QOL itself, look foolish. But even more so, Derek has managed to be the motivating factor for people to shun the game ever since he first opened his pie hole to state he was involved.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • EvilGeekEvilGeek Member UncommonPosts: 1,255



    Originally posted by rhinok

    You forgot one very important change they'd need to even hope to survive. Dump Derek Smart, or muzzle his ass. Make him a "silent" partner, literally.
    Allow him to continue opening his mouth, especially directly to customers on the official forums but also on the web in general in relation to Alganon matters, and noone will come back and new players will continue to be run away. Noone wants to pay money to be harassed by an egotistical prick, outside of a few masochists that also prefer chains and whips with their breakfast cereal.
    The latest issue with David Allen coming out on top after all the threats, rants, and blustering from Derek Smart has made not only Derek Smart, but QOL itself, look foolish. But even more so, Derek has managed to be the motivating factor for people to shun the game ever since he first opened his pie hole to state he was involved.

    This.

    Players are going to be much more forgiving of a games bugs if they have respect for the company, he really doesn't help their case on that one.

    image
  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    You forgot one very important change they'd need to even hope to survive. Dump Derek Smart, or muzzle his ass. Make him a "silent" partner, literally.

    Allow him to continue opening his mouth, especially directly to customers on the official forums but also on the web in general in relation to Alganon matters, and noone will come back and new players will continue to be run away. Noone wants to pay money to be harassed by an egotistical prick, outside of a few masochists that also prefer chains and whips with their breakfast cereal.

    The latest issue with David Allen coming out on top after all the threats, rants, and blustering from Derek Smart has made not only Derek Smart, but QOL itself, look foolish. But even more so, Derek has managed to be the motivating factor for people to shun the game ever since he first opened his pie hole to state he was involved.

    With the exception of the poll I created, in which I thought he was relevant to the question asked, I've stayed neutral on "Derek Smart".  I'd honestly never heard of him prior to a few months ago when David Allen (whom I'd never heard of either) was fired.  I've been both horrified and awed by some of his posts and I truly have no idea what's up from down, who's right/wrong, etc.. in the Smart Vs. Allen debacle.  While it's obvious there are players who don't play Alganon specifically due to Mr. Smart, I honestly think it's a vocal minority, or at least would be if the game had a healthy population with hundreds or thousands of peak concurrent players.

    I respect your opinion.  It's yours and your choice not to play.  Personally, I'm focused entirely on the game itself: what I enjoy, what I dislike and what I think will make the game better. I don't focus on Mr. Smart's personality or role, what the game was like before I ever tried it or even Quest Online. Granted, I may feel differently if I felt I was attacked by him, especially for what I thought was constructive feedback, but so far I've never personally interacted with him. I don't post on the official boards, choosing instead to post here, where I think there's a larger general audience with less vested interest.  If the game was in beta, however, I'd participate on the official boards quite a bit, as I do with all games I beta test.

    ~Ripper

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Member Posts: 2,414

    Originally posted by rhinok

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    You forgot one very important change they'd need to even hope to survive. Dump Derek Smart, or muzzle his ass. Make him a "silent" partner, literally.

    Allow him to continue opening his mouth, especially directly to customers on the official forums but also on the web in general in relation to Alganon matters, and noone will come back and new players will continue to be run away. Noone wants to pay money to be harassed by an egotistical prick, outside of a few masochists that also prefer chains and whips with their breakfast cereal.

    The latest issue with David Allen coming out on top after all the threats, rants, and blustering from Derek Smart has made not only Derek Smart, but QOL itself, look foolish. But even more so, Derek has managed to be the motivating factor for people to shun the game ever since he first opened his pie hole to state he was involved.

    With the exception of the poll I created, in which I thought he was relevant to the question asked, I've stayed neutral on "Derek Smart".  I'd honestly never heard of him prior to a few months ago when David Allen (whom I'd never heard of either) was fired.  I've been both horrified and awed by some of his posts and I truly have no idea what's up from down, who's right/wrong, etc.. in the Smart Vs. Allen debacle.  While it's obvious there are players who don't play Alganon specifically due to Mr. Smart, I honestly think it's a vocal minority, or at least would be if the game had a healthy population with hundreds or thousands of peak concurrent players.

    I respect your opinion.  It's yours and your choice not to play.  Personally, I'm focused entirely on the game itself: what I enjoy, what I dislike and what I think will make the game better. I don't focus on Mr. Smart's personality or role, what the game was like before I ever tried it or even Quest Online. Granted, I may feel differently if I felt I was attacked by him, especially for what I thought was constructive feedback, but so far I've never personally interacted with him. I don't post on the official boards, choosing instead to post here, where I think there's a larger general audience with less vested interest.  If the game was in beta, however, I'd participate on the official boards quite a bit, as I do with all games I beta test.

    ~Ripper

    Well, I don't say it just because I don't personally like the guy.

    Ask anyone how fast the community dropped when he started posting onthe official forums.

    He's also tried to do it here, but his posting habits don't last long on forums where he has no control.

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Irrespective of Derek Smart, what do you think about the OP's question and the points I presented?

    ~Ripper

  • eyeswideopeneyeswideopen Member Posts: 2,414

    Originally posted by rhinok

    Irrespective of Derek Smart, what do you think about the OP's question and the points I presented?

    ~Ripper

    Well, I'd say irrespective of DS, you pretty much covered it. Except the name change part. While changing the name of a game and re-releasing it is a staple of asian game companies, it really doesn't work for the western audience, as we generally see it as the company trying to deceive us into thinking they're something new, rather than just saying "Hey, we've improved "Game X", check us out!".

    All you'd end up with would be players saying "Hey, check out this new game!....Oh, wait, it's just Alganon. Nevermind."

    -Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
    -And on the 8th day, man created God.-

  • CheriseCherise Member Posts: 232

    Originally posted by eyeswideopen

    Well, I don't say it just because I don't personally like the guy.

    Ask anyone how fast the community dropped when he started posting onthe official forums.

    He's also tried to do it here, but his posting habits don't last long on forums where he has no control.

    This is true and it's not just a vocal minority.  I'd been with Alganon since early beta.  Those that left because of the bugs and other annoyances had already done so before the new management takeover.  Those of us (myself included) that were still there at that time had remained because of the sense of community and support for the small,  friendly team.  Most of that group did leave because of the new management.

    Without a friendly forum community and no longer a desire to support the team, you're not so inclined to put up with bugs.

  • IgorchtIgorcht Member UncommonPosts: 82

    I honestly have no idea how Alganon stays afloat, but nothing will save it, IMO. Derek Smart is, to put it mildly, not exactly a well-liked figure in gaming, and he certainly seems incapable of saving the game. As for David Allen, Derek Smart taking over was probably the best thing to ever happen, at least for him. Now everyone is raging on Derek and seems to have forgotten that David Allen was the original guy who said "Alganon is exactly what gamers have been waiting for", and apparently believed that gamers were waiting for a game that was EXACTLY like WoW, except inferior in every regard, from graphics to world design, and then thought people would be willing to pay premium prices. Really, Alganon was dead in the water before it began thanks to David Allen's delusions. Derek Smart is certainly not helping things any. Remember, Allen adamantly refused to make Alganon F2P. He honestly believed that the game was competitive with AAA MMO titles.

     

    I really just don't want to hear from either of them ever again, but I bet we haven't seen the last of Allen. When Horizons tanked, he blamed David Bowman. Now that Alganon is tanking, he's going to blame Derek Smart, and probably hoodwink more idiotic investors out of their cash.

    "I am the weapon that strikes/In the hearts of men I thrive/Feeding their fear with lies/I will devour/I will divide/I am the god of hellfire/inside every man there lives a liar/before their gods they cower/I will divide/I will devour" - "Divide Devour" by Iced Earth

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by TheMinn

    More important question: how is Evony still alive ?

    Don't care, since this is an Alganon thread..

    ~Ripper

  • ThorqemadaThorqemada Member UncommonPosts: 1,282

    The game is dead...maybe they can use it for writing off taxes.

    The game offers no better gameplay than others, has a much lower population, has not even sexy female avatars which is kind of a "hail mary" feature in some games.
    So there is nothing left then a desolate world that offers some oases of nice ideas if you dont die of thirst before you reach them.

    Craft of Gods is another game struggling for players and has opened a f2p server without any population last time i checked it.
    My guess is that we will see many alike games disappear in the future that have no asian population keeping them alive as the demands in the western mmo world are much higher.

    "Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

    MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
    Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM

  • LadyAlibiLadyAlibi Member UncommonPosts: 297

    Originally posted by Blutmaul

    The game is dead...maybe they can use it for writing off taxes.

    The game offers no better gameplay than others, has a much lower population, has not even sexy female avatars which is kind of a "hail mary" feature in some games.

    So there is nothing left then a desolate world that offers some oases of nice ideas if you dont die of thirst before you reach them.

    Craft of Gods is another game struggling for players and has opened a f2p server without any population last time i checked it.

    My guess is that we will see many alike games disappear in the future that have no asian population keeping them alive as the demands in the western mmo world are much higher.

     

    The thing is that there are f2p games already on the market that don't even need an Asian population to keep them going. I actually liked some of the ideas in Alganon, but it did feel like beta. These days, even the f2p imports are stepping up and providing a fairly polished experience.

     

    Going free only worked for DDO, and may work for LOTRO and EQ2X, because there was a game there to start with. Being free is not enough to draw a crowd, especially when you consider exactly how crowded the f2p market is, with games of better quality all the time, including the ones mentioned and some of the classier imports.

     

    I am the perfect audience for Alganon. I love underdogs, I don't mind playing games that are works-in-progress, and I am ok with spending money in an item mall. What's keeping me from being a paying customer is the low population, uncertainty about the future of the product, and having to shell out just to talk to the people who *are* online. (I don't know about other f2p players, but I don't spend a dime until I make some friends and get involved enough to know I will be playing for a few months, at least.)

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by LadyAlibi

     ...

    I am the perfect audience for Alganon. I love underdogs, I don't mind playing games that are works-in-progress, and I am ok with spending money in an item mall. What's keeping me from being a paying customer is the low population, uncertainty about the future of the product, and having to shell out just to talk to the people who *are* online. (I don't know about other f2p players, but I don't spend a dime until I make some friends and get involved enough to know I will be playing for a few months, at least.)

    Ultimately, those are the same basic reasons I have for not paying. Alganon needs drastic changes and those changes have to be significant enough to attract and retain a high volume of players.  Even a consistent 20k players month-to-month would be great.  Using the 89/10/1 rule and some guesstimation based on this massively.com article about Free Realms,  the game could generate decent revenue.  Out of 20k players, imagine the following:


    • 17.8k players, $0 spent/month

    • 2k players, each spending $5/month - $10k/month gross revenue

    • 200 players, each spending $30/month - $6k/month gross revenue

    That's $16k/month ($192k/year) gross revenue.  That'd be nice if the game was run by only 1 or two people and didn't have almost 4 million invested in it.  Keep in mind, though, that David Allen blogged he paid himself between $8 and $9k/month (between $96k and $108k/year). Alganon will need many more players and far more sustainable monthly gross revenue in order to recoup the initial investments, much less pay salaries and  operating, maintenance, and ongoing development costs and eventually attain profitability.


     



     


    50k players/month, about 10% of which pay $50/month ($230k/month gross revenue)


     


    Obviously, the population and revenue need to be sustainable on a monthly basis.  Not only am I not paying for Alganon now that I've reached level 30, but I really can't see anything upon which I would spend additional money on a monthly basis. Then again, maybe there's so much churn in Puzzle Pirates that it's not the same players paying $50 every month..


     


    Regardless, after looking at those numbers and knowing how much money has already been sunk into Alganon, something drastic has to happen in order for it to survive and thrive. 


     


    Please note, I'm not sounding Alganon's "death knell". I have no knowledge of their plans, or lack thereof, to change and improve the game or to attract and retain a sufficiently high population. I'm simply providing insight into they type of population and money required for them to be profitable.


     


    ~Ripper

  • nynnivanynniva Member UncommonPosts: 235


    • Players - It obviously needs a very large influx of players, but it all needs to be able to retain those players and convert X % into paying customers.  F2P games, in general, tend to strive for the 89/10/1 rule - 89% of players will never spend money, 10% will spend some and 1% will spend a lot.  This ties directly into the ARPU (Average Revenue per User) and ARPPU (Average Revenue per Paying User), as well as the AMPU (Average Margin per User). How will attract and retain players?
      • Fixes - the game has a ton of issues, many of which are unacceptable at this point in it's released life (major geometry and pathing problems abound). Personally, I'd love the see the game still open, but reverted to "beta" status.
      • Revenue Model - it needs changes.  Having to pay to chat is going to turn off most players right from the beginning. There are pets that can be unlocked via studies and with in-game currency, which would be great for a p2p or GW model, but not for F2P.  Pets are highly coveted cash shop items.  Convert non-combat pets to cash shop items, IMO.  Same with mounts.  They're not critical to play, but for convenience, which makes them perfect for the Tribute Market.
      • Features and content - The game has some great features, such as studies, crafting, pets, mounts, requisition system,library, MyAlganon.com, etc,,, but it also needs PvP, more group content, player housing (a great cash shop sink) etc.. Consolidate Servers - there are two US servers now and there's no justification for having them.  The population is dismal and needs to be combined.  Having a higher concentration of players on a single server is better for all current players.  Expand as needed in the future. Marketing - after fixing issues and adding features and content, market the hell out of the game!  Relaunch it with a new name! Do things like Frogster and RoM, where every player gets a 24 mount on every new character - it's the crack dealer approach - the first hit is free and even though players don't need a mount, they definitely miss it and want it after the 24 hour one expires!

    ~Ripper


    Pretty much have to agree with all of the above.

    When the F2P was first announced the numbers shot up from a handful of players online to 40-50 players online. While this is still low compared to other games out there, it was definitely a step in the right direction.

    Many of those new people bought superpacks as well. We welcomed dozens of people into our guild, set them up with gear, bags, helped with instances, quests, etc. Things were looking good.

    But then, inexplicably, people started to disappear. Many before even reaching the 'you must buy to proceed beyond this level' point. A few made it to 40+ and started running instances with us. Now in the last couple of weeks nobody's so much as logged on.

    I think of all the above issues, the biggest one (other than population) is the revenue model. Its hard to justify dropping 20-30$ on a single item for a single character that can never be traded, when you could play a subscription based game (and access ALL of the content) for less than that monthly. I think they need to put the micro back into microtransaction, more people are likely to buy a mount, if it costs them 5$ as opposed to 25$. More people are going to buy a second 'role' for their character if it cost a couple dollars rather than 10$ per character. Its hard to justify spending 5-10$ to dye a set of armor that you'll probably upgrade pretty soon, but if it was 1$ to dye the whole set you'd get a lot more people doing it. Its cosmetic only. If dyes and talismans could be traded, sold on auction house, etc. you'd have your usual people buying to sell; and those who do not have the money or means to actually buy things themselves could have hope of actually obtaining some of the things that make the game more 'fun'.

    I'm okay with slight boosts (like XP potions) for cash; but I dislike this idea of spending money to make your character better in a way that another player who does not spend money can NEVER (ever, ever) achieve.

    Things that I'm ok with costing money :
    Guild Creation - it certainly isn't necessary when there are existing guilds to join and the guild creation token isn't outrageously expensive.
    Ability Resets - the game does let you reset for in-game money once every level which is usually enough for the purposes of experimenting. Anything beyond that, sure, cash shop.
    Dyes, special mounts, fluff pets, study boons (even though the study boon is LAUGHABLY expensive for something you will get anyway by simply waiting a month. 1 month of study time (which you'll get by simply waiting a month) = 125$ or therabouts. Seriously? If it was a tenth the cost, its still a bit pricy for something you get for doing nothing.)


    Things that shouldn't cost money :
    - Chat
    - Level & ability caps
    - Talismans; fine if there's a cash shop option, but considering how dramatic they are they should have a way to be obtained in-game as well.

    Things I'm on the fence about:
    - Equipment boxes

    The 'full gear set' stuff is pretty decent, but you can mix/match crafted and dropped stuff to gear nearly the same effect. Its a lot more effort to do so, which is fine. So I'm ok with the current equipment boxes. If I see lvl 50 epic sets being sold for 100$ apiece, I'll be outraged, but as is, its within acceptable limits I think.


    In keeping to the 'extra' stuff, there's a lot of other tribute ideas that could be added to alganon to enrich the player experience without crippling gameplay for people who do not shell out cash. The 89/10/1 is quite reasonable. Currently the game is setup so that 100% HAVE to buy SOMETHING, just to play, so people are going to other games where this isn't the case.

    Gaming? That's not gaming!
    That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...

  • GandrellGandrell Member Posts: 22

    http://www.alganon.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5417-so-when/page__pid__45653__st__0&#entry45653

    This how Alganon is staying afloat! By, Smart attacking and ignoring its customers while maintaining to be a greedy ego-maniac.

    Then, making threats to ban you cause other ppl who play the game agree. It is too bad QOL doesn't have the SMART-S to pick good ppl to rep. their company. Sad

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by Gandrell

    http://www.alganon.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5417-so-when/page__pid__45653__st__0&#entry45653

    This how Alganon is staying afloat! By, Smart attacking and ignoring its customers while maintaining to be a greedy ego-maniac.

    Then, making threats to ban you cause other ppl who play the game agree. It is too bad QOL doesn't have the SMART-S to pick good ppl to rep. their company. Sad

    It's a two-way street.  In your posts, you're hostile and argumentative. Additionally, you don't really provide anything constructive to the argument. There are better, more civil ways to make your point.  Perhaps if you had politely asked about specific issues, Derek Smart, and the other staff, would be more inclined to reply. Instead, you chose to create an account here to nerdrage.. 

    ~Ripper

  • TkyleTkyle Member UncommonPosts: 33

    Originally posted by rhinok

    Originally posted by Gandrell

    http://www.alganon.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5417-so-when/page__pid__45653__st__0&#entry45653

    This how Alganon is staying afloat! By, Smart attacking and ignoring its customers while maintaining to be a greedy ego-maniac.

    Then, making threats to ban you cause other ppl who play the game agree. It is too bad QOL doesn't have the SMART-S to pick good ppl to rep. their company. Sad

    It's a two-way street.  In your posts, you're hostile and argumentative. Additionally, you don't really provide anything constructive to the argument. There are better, more civil ways to make your point.  Perhaps if you had politely asked about specific issues, Derek Smart, and the other staff, would be more inclined to reply. Instead, you chose to create an account here to nerdrage.. 

    ~Ripper

     I can't believe I'd ever find myself defending Smart, but for once he wasn't an ass. I read what ya'll said over there and I think you got offended by something that wasn't there. He does come across gruff the way he says things and needs some real training in how to deal with his customers. I'd say relax a little and reread what was said and you'll maybe find you're blowing this out of proportion.

     But in saying that, I do understand he can piss you off bad. I left after he got there and started insulting and deleting posts. Even banning people for not agreeing with him. I will not ever play this game while he's there or any game he's involved with. 

     If you enjoy the game, go play and just avoid the forums. That way you'll not have to deal with him.  =)

  • GandrellGandrell Member Posts: 22

    Your right, the point being for ppl who have been on forums and have made these statements about mobs, servers and other bugs in-game not being corrected before and has otherwise disagreed or flat out ignore the situation all together.  So yes, if you are just looking at what I put down and never been in any other the forum post I guess you wouldn't understand maybe what I am saying? So I got angry at the fact cause i know he understands these problems and has remarked about them many of times then has the nerve to as me to clarify what I am saying. It all has gotten old. So I guess I'll just have to play the game and hope for the best?

    Also, I didn't make an account here just to nerdrage. I also made one to jump in with some of you fine ppl who like me have more to say.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,771

    Originally posted by Gandrell

    http://www.alganon.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5417-so-when/page__pid__45653__st__0&#entry45653

    This how Alganon is staying afloat! By, Smart attacking and ignoring its customers while maintaining to be a greedy ego-maniac.

    Then, making threats to ban you cause other ppl who play the game agree. It is too bad QOL doesn't have the SMART-S to pick good ppl to rep. their company. Sad

     

    Lol .. Derek is so funny .. "We never expected everyone to be happy and we're not inclined to try and please everyone. Our main and primary focus is on the core audience who are playing the game"

    ... he means the 10 people who are playing the game? He is the only MMO developer who don't want to attract new players and want players to LEAVE?

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,593

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Gandrell

    http://www.alganon.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5417-so-when/page__pid__45653__st__0&#entry45653

    This how Alganon is staying afloat! By, Smart attacking and ignoring its customers while maintaining to be a greedy ego-maniac.

    Then, making threats to ban you cause other ppl who play the game agree. It is too bad QOL doesn't have the SMART-S to pick good ppl to rep. their company. Sad

     

    Lol .. Derek is so funny .. "We never expected everyone to be happy and we're not inclined to try and please everyone. Our main and primary focus is on the core audience who are playing the game"

    ... he means the 10 people who are playing the game? He is the only MMO developer who don't want to attract new players and want players to LEAVE?

    10 people???

    OH, you're counting all the folks in their office...

    It's 9, now.  The janitor stopped playing a couple weeks back.

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by Robsolf

    Originally posted by nariusseldon


    Originally posted by Gandrell

    http://www.alganon.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5417-so-when/page__pid__45653__st__0&#entry45653

    This how Alganon is staying afloat! By, Smart attacking and ignoring its customers while maintaining to be a greedy ego-maniac.

    Then, making threats to ban you cause other ppl who play the game agree. It is too bad QOL doesn't have the SMART-S to pick good ppl to rep. their company. Sad

     

    Lol .. Derek is so funny .. "We never expected everyone to be happy and we're not inclined to try and please everyone. Our main and primary focus is on the core audience who are playing the game"

    ... he means the 10 people who are playing the game? He is the only MMO developer who don't want to attract new players and want players to LEAVE?

    10 people???

    OH, you're counting all the folks in their office...

    It's 9, now.  The janitor stopped playing a couple weeks back.

    The population, at any given time, is remarkably low.  I just logged off a bit ago and these were the total non-GM users logged in.  The number in parentheses is the count minus my own character.  

    Adrios Server:


    • 2 (1) Kujix,

    • 3 (2) Asharr

    Hokk Server:

    • 3  (2) Kujix

    • 4 (3) Ashar

    That's right, minus me, the total number of non-GM players online (there were two GMs online, btw) was 8. between two different servers.  Obviously, I could only be logged in on any one server and race at at ime, so the total players online was 9.


     


    9 players online..


     


    Unfortunately, this isn't all that uncommon.  I play at all times, day or night, weekdays and weekends, and the population is rarely more significant than that.  I was excited last weekend when there were 9 other players online in a single race on a single server.


     


    Please note, I'm not bashing Alganon - I like this game, but something drastic has to happen.


     


    Regarding the quote above, I replied by posting questions in that thread, but they weren't directly answered:


     

    • Who do you consider to be your "core audience" or, more specifically, who do you consider your "target audience"? What type of player do you hope to attract and retain?

       

    • The game may not be as broken as it was before (I'll take your word for that, since I didn't play it before), and the patch notes support that you've been bug fixing since the re-launch, but even now the game still seems "broken". It's playable, but the quality feels more "beta" than "release ready". The biggest issues I personally see relate to stability (I experience CTD on a regular basis) and geometry and pathing issues (which Padreic recently said were being worked on), as well as a number of other problems. You say that you have a plan in place. Would you please share what you can about that plan as it relates to improving the overall quality and player experience?

       

    • What are your thoughts on Alganon being a "pay-to-win" game once PvP goes live, assuming the Tribute Market stays the same? I created a chart that compares my current level 30 ranger gear, obtained through solo play, questing, crafting and the auction house, to the level 30 Ranger Full set from the Market and found the Tribute set to be substantially better for the same pieces. So much so that if this were a PvP game, the Tribute set would provide a significant advantage in attack power, defense and HP. In PvE, it doesn't matter, of course.

       

    • Alganon seems to be viewed as a WoW clone. Irrespective of that, it seems to be a fairly standard fantasy MMO. What do you think Alganon provides that other fantasy MMOs (PvP or F2P) don't provide? What current features do you think it has that makes it stand out from the crowd? What future features are planned to differentiate it from other games?

     


     


    I'm genuinely curious because I do like the game.


     


    That being said, Derek Smart did drop a few tidbits in another thread (colored emphasis mine):


     


    Even if down the road Alganon doesn't make it - given all the odds that were stacked against it from the onset - it won't be from lack of trying or lack of funds



    Those of you who were here since the beginning back in Dec 2009, can attest to the fact that atremendous amount of work has gone into Alganon since I took over the reigns in Feb this year and most of that is from a focused team, a definitive plan and a streamlined design schedule. In the coming year, a lot of things are coming to Alganon and as I type this, a robust marketing plan is already in the works and which I expect to execute on later this month and for the upcoming two quarters and which will help boost our numbers.



    Oh, btw, PvP Part 1 (it will have three parts which cater to different things) is coming next month. ooops, did I let slip something? :ninja:


    I don't make policy regarding design, features or whatever. As I've said before, this is not my game. The team that designed and developed it, know exactly what they're doing - and that's why they're still working here.  

    As to the issue of a roadmap. There is one. I just choose to keep it under wraps because, unlike how things were done prior to my arrival, I don't make promises that I can't keep. In fact, I tend to under promise because then there is very little room for disappointment.

    We have other things such as localization (which will bring servers to international territories depending on what deals I can put together), new 3D character models, new instances, the game's first expansion pack etc - all planned and in the schedule for next year. And through all that, the bug fixing, tweaking etc - all continues. In fact, a lot of pathing related fixes are being rolled out in the coming weeks and possibly ahead of or with the first PvP path. 

    So, according to Mr. Smart:


    • They have enough funds to continue

    • There's a robust marketing plan in the works

    • The 1st phase of PvP is coming next month

    • He doesn't drive policy on features, mechanics, etc.. He trusts his team. He sticks to management duties.

    • There is a roadmap, but he'd prefer not to share it

    • There are other things in the pipeline for next year, such as potential future deals with international locales, new 3d character models, new instances an expansion pack, etc..

    • Pathing related fixes will be rolled out in the near future

    ~Ripper



  • majimaji Member UncommonPosts: 2,091

    I don't think Alganon is a horrible game. Sure, they copied a lot. Sure, Derek Smart is annoying as hell. Sure, they changed the finanial model of the game every 5 minutes, and in matters of graphics and selection of classes and factions and... Well, there are just masses of games out there that are better. Still I don't think it's horrible.

    Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)

    Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,593

    Originally posted by rhinok

     

    The population, at any given time, is remarkably low.  I just logged off a bit ago and these were the total non-GM users logged in.  The number in parentheses is the count minus my own character.  

    Adrios Server:


    • 2 (1) Kujix,

    • 3 (2) Asharr

    Hokk Server:

    • 3  (2) Kujix

    • 4 (3) Ashar

    That's right, minus me, the total number of non-GM players online (there were two GMs online, btw) was 8. between two different servers.  Obviously, I could only be logged in on any one server and race at at ime, so the total players online was 9.


     


    9 players online..


     


    Unfortunately, this isn't all that uncommon.  I play at all times, day or night, weekdays and weekends, and the population is rarely more significant than that.  I was excited last weekend when there were 9 other players online in a single race on a single server.


     


    Please note, I'm not bashing Alganon - I like this game, but something drastic has to happen.


     


    Regarding the quote above, I replied by posting questions in that thread, but they weren't directly answered:


     

    • Who do you consider to be your "core audience" or, more specifically, who do you consider your "target audience"? What type of player do you hope to attract and retain?

       

    • The game may not be as broken as it was before (I'll take your word for that, since I didn't play it before), and the patch notes support that you've been bug fixing since the re-launch, but even now the game still seems "broken". It's playable, but the quality feels more "beta" than "release ready". The biggest issues I personally see relate to stability (I experience CTD on a regular basis) and geometry and pathing issues (which Padreic recently said were being worked on), as well as a number of other problems. You say that you have a plan in place. Would you please share what you can about that plan as it relates to improving the overall quality and player experience?

       

    • What are your thoughts on Alganon being a "pay-to-win" game once PvP goes live, assuming the Tribute Market stays the same? I created a chart that compares my current level 30 ranger gear, obtained through solo play, questing, crafting and the auction house, to the level 30 Ranger Full set from the Market and found the Tribute set to be substantially better for the same pieces. So much so that if this were a PvP game, the Tribute set would provide a significant advantage in attack power, defense and HP. In PvE, it doesn't matter, of course.

       

    • Alganon seems to be viewed as a WoW clone. Irrespective of that, it seems to be a fairly standard fantasy MMO. What do you think Alganon provides that other fantasy MMOs (PvP or F2P) don't provide? What current features do you think it has that makes it stand out from the crowd? What future features are planned to differentiate it from other games?

     


     


    I'm genuinely curious because I do like the game.


     


    That being said, Derek Smart did drop a few tidbits in another thread (colored emphasis mine):


     


    Even if down the road Alganon doesn't make it - given all the odds that were stacked against it from the onset - it won't be from lack of trying or lack of funds



    Those of you who were here since the beginning back in Dec 2009, can attest to the fact that atremendous amount of work has gone into Alganon since I took over the reigns in Feb this year and most of that is from a focused team, a definitive plan and a streamlined design schedule. In the coming year, a lot of things are coming to Alganon and as I type this, a robust marketing plan is already in the works and which I expect to execute on later this month and for the upcoming two quarters and which will help boost our numbers.



    Oh, btw, PvP Part 1 (it will have three parts which cater to different things) is coming next month. ooops, did I let slip something? :ninja:


    I don't make policy regarding design, features or whatever. As I've said before, this is not my game. The team that designed and developed it, know exactly what they're doing - and that's why they're still working here.  

    As to the issue of a roadmap. There is one. I just choose to keep it under wraps because, unlike how things were done prior to my arrival, I don't make promises that I can't keep. In fact, I tend to under promise because then there is very little room for disappointment.

    We have other things such as localization (which will bring servers to international territories depending on what deals I can put together), new 3D character models, new instances, the game's first expansion pack etc - all planned and in the schedule for next year. And through all that, the bug fixing, tweaking etc - all continues. In fact, a lot of pathing related fixes are being rolled out in the coming weeks and possibly ahead of or with the first PvP path. 

    So, according to Mr. Smart:


    • They have enough funds to continue

    • There's a robust marketing plan in the works

    • The 1st phase of PvP is coming next month

    • He doesn't drive policy on features, mechanics, etc.. He trusts his team. He sticks to management duties.

    • There is a roadmap, but he'd prefer not to share it

    • There are other things in the pipeline for next year, such as potential future deals with international locales, new 3d character models, new instances an expansion pack, etc..

    • Pathing related fixes will be rolled out in the near future

    ~Ripper



    Wow... figures I'd be right when I'm at my smartassiest...

    Well, seeing as yours is an honest, objective post(highly unbecoming of a forum poster), I hope SOMETHING happens to keep the game you enjoy rolling. 

    Good Luck!

  • JergisJergis Member Posts: 37

    -Smart also posted a link to an article on Massively that he proclaims he "knew all this stuff years ago"...

    ...which is hilarious considering the last two paragraphs of that article talk about respecting the community, hiring a solid CM and not alienating your fan base by communicating in an unprofessional manner.

    Unless their new marketing campaign includes him leaving their employ, i just don't see it working.

    Jergis

  • WraithoneWraithone Member RarePosts: 3,800

    Originally posted by EvilGeek

     






    Originally posted by rhinok



    You forgot one very important change they'd need to even hope to survive. Dump Derek Smart, or muzzle his ass. Make him a "silent" partner, literally.

    Allow him to continue opening his mouth, especially directly to customers on the official forums but also on the web in general in relation to Alganon matters, and noone will come back and new players will continue to be run away. Noone wants to pay money to be harassed by an egotistical prick, outside of a few masochists that also prefer chains and whips with their breakfast cereal.

    The latest issue with David Allen coming out on top after all the threats, rants, and blustering from Derek Smart has made not only Derek Smart, but QOL itself, look foolish. But even more so, Derek has managed to be the motivating factor for people to shun the game ever since he first opened his pie hole to state he was involved.




    This.

    Players are going to be much more forgiving of a games bugs if they have respect for the company, he really doesn't help their case on that one.

     

    Very true. Many of the original community stuck around because of the community, and because we believed in Dave Allens vision for what the game might some day be. It was never going to be more than a niche game, but that was ok with most of us.  Given how much these games cost, I can understand the investors panic, but they made some SERIOUS mistakes in their follow up actions.

      With the advent of Mr Smart, things went down hill in a big way. He almost single handedly drove many of the original community(some of the strongest defenders of the game) away with his threats, insults and other antics.  The rest as they say is history.  The Quest techs deserved far more for their years of work than they have received. I hope they find other employment else where in the industry.

    "If you can't kill it, don't make it mad."
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