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My biggest disappointment isn’t the game, it’s the players

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  • ChinaCatChinaCat Member UncommonPosts: 670

    Originally posted by itchmon

    an interesting thread and a good read.

     

    as others pointed out, it's (in my opinion) more the ruleset than the fact that it's ffa pvp that really can bring out the , er, special folks in a game.

     

    in other words, av needs to implement a much better punishment (note, i didnt say prevention- i said punishment)  system so that there are real consequences for being a douche who ganks random people for jollies.  I know i'm an eve broken record but eve really handled this great, it is full pvp but in certain areas there are severe consequences so that in effect makes them "safe areas" or at least "safer areas".

     

    also inside stations (which would be the equivalent of "inside outposts and cities" in darkfall there is no chance at all of being ganked because you are taken out of the game to do these things.  in DF that would equate to pvp being switched off  inside towns.

    Few comments to your points.

    Please be aware that "in my opinion" having played DFO since beta, on EU and on NA servers that the actual community in the game, not on the forums, is awesome.

    Please be aware there is only one single character slot per account, meaning how your character behaves have consequences but those consequences are left up to the players on the server.   So for example; let's say you have a wonderful guild in DFO and have a list of those "special" asshats on the server.   There is absolutely nothing in the game stopping your guild from making life virtually intolerable for that player.

    AV has created accountability already but it's up to the players to bring it, as it should be.

    -CC

    "Lately it occurs to me,
    what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter

  • patshirpatshir Member Posts: 114

    Originally posted by oTinyo

    Originally posted by chryses

    ...If I think about it.  If you put this model on EvE, it would be like dropping a new / trial player into a 0.0 zone and telling them to get on with it. 

    FFA type games only work when the developers create a learning curve that allows a gamer to gradually get involved in PvP and facilitate a transfer from a safe hub to the real world.  Even a small one would suffice.  I am personally amazed that AV just went with the, 'I dont give a f..k' attitude and pretty much ignored all common sense picked up from most MMO's. 

    Unfortunately I can see more experienced players hanging around new zones because they probably cant find enough to kill out in the wider world. 

    This is exactly it.

    Do corps in EVE suffer because there are newbie carebear zones? No. In actual fact the large amount of players attracted to Empire space means that many more come through and join corps. It also gives the wolves in null sec some sheep to hunt when they come into low sec or even 0.0.

    0.0 flourishes because Empire space exists and flourishes.

    I just wish that Aventurine would understand this.

    I've played since beta. I don't mind losing fights/sieges/gear. I try to learn and work out a way of winning next time. But two things have sapped my enjoyment and left me unsubbed for a few months: (a) the pop is low and the only people left to fight are the hardcore macroers i.e. lots of wolves, almost no sheep (I have never hunted near newbie zones as I don't want to cut the branch I'm sitting on); and (b) if you die you simply lose time. That is, I have to go out and hunt the rare ore, mine, hunt the enchant mats etc etc. It's just time, time, time - which I don't have so much of anymore. I don't want it all now, but I don't want to grind out some ready bags for a few days to lose them to someone who's macroed surging spells.

    Now, I've stuck with DFO and I'll prob come back with the patch today or the expac with prestige classes BUT there are 10's of 1000's who won't. That's 1000's of sheep to keep the wolves fed and 100's of new wolves coming through to keep the game alive and vibrant.

    Anyway, this is probably a derail. The community is actually not bad - or at least on a par with most other MMOs, but you won't really talk to them via the epeen general spam channels.

    Tsk, tsk, you killed too many sheep, destroyed the food chain.

  • patshirpatshir Member Posts: 114

    Originally posted by xBludx

    The expansion coming up (Darkfall 2010) supposedly in Q4 will show how aware AV is and how much they care about retaining new subs. There needs to be way people who are not that good at pvp (for whatever reason) can survive in the game community and have a role to play. A true "sandbox" must allow that. I really want to see where the devs at AV go with this.

     

    Yeah, yeah, the famous and expected DF 2010 expansion, do you know what new content will it bring to the game? NOTHING, nothing new, just cosmetic changes, but it is still the same never ending gank game, the same old gank everyone who is not you game.

    AV is making its last desperate ditch effort to save a doomed game, Tasos was during weeks talking and talking about how nice the new expansion was to keep the interest alive, but the day came and just read the patch notes, nothing really substancial or breathtaking, the same old dog with a new collar, the same old soup in another dish.

  • chryseschryses Member UncommonPosts: 1,453

    Just on that wolf / sheep analogy, I want to touch on this.  I also feel that a good FFA/ PvP centric game needs to cater for carebears and PvE fans (even the gamers like me who tend to have one foot in each camp), otherwise you will end up with an MMO with no prey, just turns out to a few wolves fighting over the few remaining critters in the underbrush.


     


    Games like this need a platform for carebears / crafter types who can contribute to the war effort indirectly.  This however requires them to venture out and scavenge in the wilds, meaning the PVP’ers can have something to hunt.  EvE has done this exceptionally well.  I ran a mining corp for years with a base of 70 or so players at its peak. Most (around 60) hated PvP and wanted nothing to do with it.  Didn’t stop us going into low sec (unsafe zone) and try to mine rare asteroids.  Besides the adrenalin rush of getting away with it and making a fortune, on plenty of occasions we were attacked by other players who were the hard core PvP sort.  We didn’t mind, its part of the territory.


     


    I consider myself a fair player.  This weekend I am going to bash the trial and really focus on what the game has to offer.  May change to an Orc for the fun of it and see how I go. If I feel my first judgement is totally misplaced I will certainly confess up. 


     


    My gut instinct tells me this game has some big parts that I will love and probably desperately miss in other titles, but with a few design flaws that will probably push me away.  But my gut has sometimes been wrong…

  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668

    Originally posted by chryses


    Just on that wolf / sheep analogy, I want to touch on this.  I also feel that a good FFA/ PvP centric game needs to cater for carebears and PvE fans (even the gamers like me who tend to have one foot in each camp), otherwise you will end up with an MMO with no prey, just turns out to a few wolves fighting over the few remaining critters in the underbrush.


     


    Games like this need a platform for carebears / crafter types who can contribute to the war effort indirectly.  This however requires them to venture out and scavenge in the wilds, meaning the PVP’ers can have something to hunt.  EvE has done this exceptionally well.  I ran a mining corp for years with a base of 70 or so players at its peak. Most (around 60) hated PvP and wanted nothing to do with it.  Didn’t stop us going into low sec (unsafe zone) and try to mine rare asteroids.  Besides the adrenalin rush of getting away with it and making a fortune, on plenty of occasions we were attacked by other players who were the hard core PvP sort.  We didn’t mind, its part of the territory.


     


    I consider myself a fair player.  This weekend I am going to bash the trial and really focus on what the game has to offer.  May change to an Orc for the fun of it and see how I go. If I feel my first judgement is totally misplaced I will certainly confess up. 


     


    My gut instinct tells me this game has some big parts that I will love and probably desperately miss in other titles, but with a few design flaws that will probably push me away.  But my gut has sometimes been wrong…

     This game is definitely a timesink, but isn't any mmo? It's only a matter of perspective. I love the combat, PvP and PvE. I found a great guild that plays the same time I do.

    I play more than 1 mmo and this one fits nicely in between my preferences. I know I am far behind those that started since day 1, but it's part of the game and i accept the challenge.

    I run to the bank alot when mining/woodcutting/herb collecting. I keep extra sets of armor/weapons/reagents for those times I get ganked. I expect to die so I prepare. I still the title quests to do but am not bound to the starter city  anymore but to an ally clan city (if you decide on trying this venue GET launch-it's a must lol).  Running aroung takes time but I see less griefers this way and have more fun.

    In my guild, there are dedicated crafters for raids. They haven't brought up many fighting skills or magic, just a few but supply the guild with weps like bows and arrows, armor, and food. :P And we do quite a bit of PvE killing Dragons, Krakens, ginats. Makes the guild some meager moeny but cements the guild members on grouping and having fun together.

    As for the community, the race alliance can be annoying, but that's usually those that don't have a clan and are not liked so much... j/k. I stay in clan alliance and clan chat. Get a clan, it helps alot.

    Hope you enjoy it, but if you don't, that's ok too. Games can't be for everyone otherwise we'd all be playing 1 game.  image

  • chryseschryses Member UncommonPosts: 1,453

    Originally posted by whisperwynd

    Originally posted by chryses


    Just on that wolf / sheep analogy, I want to touch on this.  I also feel that a good FFA/ PvP centric game needs to cater for carebears and PvE fans (even the gamers like me who tend to have one foot in each camp), otherwise you will end up with an MMO with no prey, just turns out to a few wolves fighting over the few remaining critters in the underbrush.


     


    Games like this need a platform for carebears / crafter types who can contribute to the war effort indirectly.  This however requires them to venture out and scavenge in the wilds, meaning the PVP’ers can have something to hunt.  EvE has done this exceptionally well.  I ran a mining corp for years with a base of 70 or so players at its peak. Most (around 60) hated PvP and wanted nothing to do with it.  Didn’t stop us going into low sec (unsafe zone) and try to mine rare asteroids.  Besides the adrenalin rush of getting away with it and making a fortune, on plenty of occasions we were attacked by other players who were the hard core PvP sort.  We didn’t mind, its part of the territory.


     


    I consider myself a fair player.  This weekend I am going to bash the trial and really focus on what the game has to offer.  May change to an Orc for the fun of it and see how I go. If I feel my first judgement is totally misplaced I will certainly confess up. 


     


    My gut instinct tells me this game has some big parts that I will love and probably desperately miss in other titles, but with a few design flaws that will probably push me away.  But my gut has sometimes been wrong…

     This game is definitely a timesink, but isn't any mmo? It's only a matter of perspective. I love the combat, PvP and PvE. I found a great guild that plays the same time I do.

    I play more than 1 mmo and this one fits nicely in between my preferences. I know I am far behind those that started since day 1, but it's part of the game and i accept the challenge.

    I run to the bank alot when mining/woodcutting/herb collecting. I keep extra sets of armor/weapons/reagents for those times I get ganked. I expect to die so I prepare. I still the title quests to do but am not bound to the starter city  anymore but to an ally clan city (if you decide on trying this venue GET launch-it's a must lol).  Running aroung takes time but I see less griefers this way and have more fun.

    In my guild, there are dedicated crafters for raids. They haven't brought up many fighting skills or magic, just a few but supply the guild with weps like bows and arrows, armor, and food. :P And we do quite a bit of PvE killing Dragons, Krakens, ginats. Makes the guild some meager moeny but cements the guild members on grouping and having fun together.

    As for the community, the race alliance can be annoying, but that's usually those that don't have a clan and are not liked so much... j/k. I stay in clan alliance and clan chat. Get a clan, it helps alot.

    Hope you enjoy it, but if you don't, that's ok too. Games can't be for everyone otherwise we'd all be playing 1 game.  image

     Thanks for that, some good points.  Like all MMO's you have to feel out the rythym of it and see how it flows.  I am aware DFO was full loot so I have to lose the mentality I am going to get a piece of armour I will love and cherish forever :) I am a bit of a free roamer and enjoy wandering off in different directions and I think DFO is perfect for that, from what I have seen. 

    Is there any loyalty between races? e.g. if you play an orc, will other orc players automatically try to beast you or is there an unspoken rule by everyone that you loosely don't attack same race players?   I have always been a fan of games like this not allowing the killing of same race players,only from a RPG element but its not realistic I know.  It just seems to unify players a bit more

  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd Member UncommonPosts: 1,668

    Originally posted by chryses

     Thanks for that, some good points.  Like all MMO's you have to feel out the rythym of it and see how it flows.  I am aware DFO was full loot so I have to lose the mentality I am going to get a piece of armour I will love and cherish forever :) I am a bit of a free roamer and enjoy wandering off in different directions and I think DFO is perfect for that, from what I have seen. 

    Is there any loyalty between races? e.g. if you play an orc, will other orc players automatically try to beast you or is there an unspoken rule by everyone that you loosely don't attack same race players?   I have always been a fan of games like this not allowing the killing of same race players,only from a RPG element but its not realistic I know.  It just seems to unify players a bit more

     You can have loyalty, but it's not a rule but there are penalties to killing same race. There are those of the same race alliance (ie. Humans, Dwarves, and elves) that will go rogue (killing of same race alliance) for either the fun of it or to be 'friendly' with opposing races. You become 'red' to your 'side' and get attacked by your alliance's main cities if you gank someone of your alliance.

    Once in a clan, you become 'friendly' with all in clan and your clan's allies, even if their from opposing races. Meaning, you won't get your faction up or down by killing clan members. You have an 'alignment' bar which will go for or against your faction depending on who you decide on killing (when you're able to lol ). ie. You're a human and kill another human, you bar goes towards opposing faction and for every 1 of your friendly kills, you need 2 kills of the opposition to  'buy back' the points lost.

    Clan wars are entirely different, as you can kill same race allies in a siege and not lose alignment points, but that gets into the complexities and politics of warring in DF.

    Hope this helps.

  • chryseschryses Member UncommonPosts: 1,453

    It does thanks, good to know it is represented some way at least.  Its a particular dislike of mine when you can go about killing your own race / faction and not have some sort of repurcussion.  Must say I am looking forward to the session this weekend.

  • Sid_ViciousSid_Vicious Member UncommonPosts: 2,125

    Originally posted by ChinaCat

    Originally posted by itchmon

    an interesting thread and a good read.

     

    as others pointed out, it's (in my opinion) more the ruleset than the fact that it's ffa pvp that really can bring out the , er, special folks in a game.

     

    in other words, av needs to implement a much better punishment (note, i didnt say prevention- i said punishment)  system so that there are real consequences for being a douche who ganks random people for jollies.  I know i'm an eve broken record but eve really handled this great, it is full pvp but in certain areas there are severe consequences so that in effect makes them "safe areas" or at least "safer areas".

     

    also inside stations (which would be the equivalent of "inside outposts and cities" in darkfall there is no chance at all of being ganked because you are taken out of the game to do these things.  in DF that would equate to pvp being switched off  inside towns.

    Few comments to your points.

    Please be aware that "in my opinion" having played DFO since beta, on EU and on NA servers that the actual community in the game, not on the forums, is awesome.

    Please be aware there is only one single character slot per account, meaning how your character behaves have consequences but those consequences are left up to the players on the server.   So for example; let's say you have a wonderful guild in DFO and have a list of those "special" asshats on the server.   There is absolutely nothing in the game stopping your guild from making life virtually intolerable for that player.

    AV has created accountability already but it's up to the players to bring it, as it should be.

    -CC

    image

    This is exactly what I was going to say. Darkfall is a sandbox game and by sandbox I mean that it highly values player freedom more than any game that I have played. You have only one character slot for this reason so that others will remember you from your actions (and they will, trust me . .. there are no instances and you will get to know everyone for the most part eventually so there is a real sense of community that other games do not have). If you do not like someone than jot down their name on a piece of paper and find a way to get revenge! Unlike EVE, they cannot hide in a safe zone. If you are determined to get some payback than you eventually will . ... just be creative and out smart the next man . .. get him when he least expects it! Get some help from friends if you have to.

     

    The alignment system does has an effect though. If a blue kills you, he cannot gank you without going red (unless you made the mistake by hitting him first or he hit you once, you attacked him and kept attacking even when he turned blue again) and after he waits for you to bleed out and take your stuff he is out of alignment so cannot do it again until he kills a red 8+ times. People say that it is too easy to get your alignment back but even with a friend nearby willing to let him farm alignment back, it will take an hour at least, so that is not necessarily true.

     

    Of course there are going to be griefers who prey off of anyone who lets them. Usually they will target those calling names or complaining in public or racial chat since making people angry is their goal. If you ever come across this kind of situation where someone is trying to do the best that he can to push your buttons, you can log off for a few minutes and come back in without saying anything in /tells or in public. They will likely forget about you . ... but you won't forget them! Be strong and you can make every douchbag pay for their actions.

     

    I used to live in chaos cities where alignment doesn't matter since there are no towers to protect you. Every once in awhile a clan would move in and try to claim the place as their own and try to camp me out of the game. I gave them hell and it was loads of fun. In fact, to this day, I get very excited when people try and camp me because it means that I will have more immediate PVP than usual and eventually they will mess up and when they do, I will get gear (while they never get anything from me since I am not an idiot and know how to be careful). I log out and then log back in. The invulnerability shield lasts for 2 minutes so I would run for a minute and then if they are following log out again (against or inside a building is good because you log back in on top of the building many times). Repeat this process until you find a safe place to rest and get your health up. At this point, you can choose to go back and find one victim that wandered too far from his friends (which I always like to do) or just leave the area if you don't feel like dealing with it. After chasing a couple clans out of some chaos towns from doing this (banking their gear again and again while naked in the outcome eventually) I became known as the peacekeeper. Chaos cities have a better community than safe NPC cities with towers because everyone who lives there with you is more likely to help you fight off baddies since you live in the same place. It is not always like this and there have been cities that I was just passing through which were quite the opposite but I think that it makes a person stronger by living in a dangerous place because you learn how to survive more. Some of my best scores were actually from people trying to camp my friends. While naked, I did what I mentioned, got away . .. sneak up to someone with infernal armor on . .. and BAM BAM BAM kite his ass with a polearm while he panics and usually dies LOL when you get the jump you have a huge advantage!

    NEWS FLASH! A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore Darkfall Online player and knew just what to do.

    Watch me play Darkfall and sometimes PVP in other MMORPGs on Twitch.

    Darkfall has launched!!! MAY 5th!! Join before its too late!

    Follow my RP blog here: http://riseofagon.blogspot.com/



  • RahkimRahkim Member UncommonPosts: 13

    Darkfall is game that seems daunting at times. Just stick it out for a month or two. Things will look a lot different.

    You'll realize that the guy hunting you in newbie lands was only 1-2 months old himself. He's probably either not very good at the game, in a bad clan, or just prefers solo hunting and was going where he could find solo targets. You'll look at your skills and realize that you too, can now throw around some decent magic. Its not going to just destroy people, but you have it and it gets a little stronger every day. Your melee and archery can hurt people too... maybe not as much as a vet's hurts YOU, but even in a group fight involving vets + you, your added damage can change the outcome.

    Hopefully by this point you've made some friends or found a (good) clan. They'll either own or live out of a player city, and that's where you'll likely learn about PVE, where to farm mobs that drop good gold, reagents, and items. You'll farm a few thousand gold in a half hour. THIS is the point where the game completely changes. Most, though not all, of the pressure for basic survival is gone when you make it here. Every loss isnt a tragedy. You don't have to mine for 3 hours to have enough ore to make another bag of gear, you can just buy the ore... or the gear, from other players.

    Ideally you're making sure to get some PvP in during that time, but if that's not your cup of tea... it doesn't have to be. There's no rules in DF, you don't have to be a wolf if you don't want to. Just kill your mobs, harvest your nodes, and enjoy the game as a carebear. Learn to listen carefully at all times. Eventually you'll recognize the sound of individual buffs, people swimming, mounts, rafts, etc and pick up on anything out of place even if you can't see it yet. The way someone buffs is a good way to size up their character. Play cautious, bank every XXXX amount of gold, and over time you'll get stronger and stronger.

    Then one day, some guy will try to kill you at a mob spawn. He'll be one of those 1 month old baddies throwing a 5 skill firebolt at you (missing everytime), and you'll beat him silly. Then he'll go to the forums and complain about the overpowered macroers, how its impossible to catch up, and that the community is so mean. However nice/friendly you might be, it'll be hard not to troll him~

  • 0tter0tter Member UncommonPosts: 226

    Originally posted by Rahkim

    Darkfall is game that seems daunting at times. Just stick it out for a month or two. Things will look a lot different.

    You'll realize that the guy hunting you in newbie lands was only 1-2 months old himself. He's probably either not very good at the game, in a bad clan, or just prefers solo hunting and was going where he could find solo targets. You'll look at your skills and realize that you too, can now throw around some decent magic. Its not going to just destroy people, but you have it and it gets a little stronger every day. Your melee and archery can hurt people too... maybe not as much as a vet's hurts YOU, but even in a group fight involving vets + you, your added damage can change the outcome.

    Hopefully by this point you've made some friends or found a (good) clan. They'll either own or live out of a player city, and that's where you'll likely learn about PVE, where to farm mobs that drop good gold, reagents, and items. You'll farm a few thousand gold in a half hour. THIS is the point where the game completely changes. Most, though not all, of the pressure for basic survival is gone when you make it here. Every loss isnt a tragedy. You don't have to mine for 3 hours to have enough ore to make another bag of gear, you can just buy the ore... or the gear, from other players.

    Ideally you're making sure to get some PvP in during that time, but if that's not your cup of tea... it doesn't have to be. There's no rules in DF, you don't have to be a wolf if you don't want to. Just kill your mobs, harvest your nodes, and enjoy the game as a carebear. Learn to listen carefully at all times. Eventually you'll recognize the sound of individual buffs, people swimming, mounts, rafts, etc and pick up on anything out of place even if you can't see it yet. The way someone buffs is a good way to size up their character. Play cautious, bank every XXXX amount of gold, and over time you'll get stronger and stronger.

    Then one day, some guy will try to kill you at a mob spawn. He'll be one of those 1 month old baddies throwing a 5 skill firebolt at you (missing everytime), and you'll beat him silly. Then he'll go to the forums and complain about the overpowered macroers, how its impossible to catch up, and that the community is so mean. However nice/friendly you might be, it'll be hard not to troll him~

       I was about 3 weeks old, killing zombies, when I was attacked by an alfar in bone armor.  I was wearing leathers at that point.  Up to that time, my first reaction to being attacked was to try to get away.  I mean, this alfar was in bone armor, he must be a vet, right?  lol...I decided if I was going to die I was going to die fighting.  I was tired of being ganked by bored vets, so instead of fleeing I charged him back.  I started using the few specials I had and noticed something.  We were damaging eachother fairly evenly.  Seeing this, I redoubled my efforts and the alfar broke and ran.  I pulled out my bow and shot him as he tried to remount and get away.  I couldn't believe I had won.  He was loaded with several sets of leather and bone armor and tons of regs.  I felt like I'd won the lottery, lol.  My first real victory ingame.  I realized that just because a player is in bone with a cool mount doesn't mean he's invulnerable.  From then on I never ran, even if I'm about to get ganked 5 to 1, and my victories soon outnumbered my defeats.

  • chryseschryses Member UncommonPosts: 1,453

    @Otter - Answered my question about fighting back, its hard to know the level of a person, probably best to have a go and see I guess.  

    2nd thoughts on DFO community  - after weekend of play


     


    Ok, a longish summarised version of my trial gameplay in DF this weekend.  I created an Orc character but decided it was a little hard to play with the size of the avatar so I decided to go Alfar instead.  I am not sure if starting my trial as a human I just hit a bunch of A.holes, thus my initial thoughts that the player base stunk, but things did change quite dramatically over this weekend. 


     


    Couple of examples.


    1. As an orc I was playing in the noob area killing goblins. I got taken down twice by NPC’s but a complete stranger revived me both times.


     


    2. As an Alfar the race chat is relatively busy and asking a few noob questions they were answered really well and I even had a few people PM me and continue to give me heads up on certain areas and were quite helpful in fact.


     


    Yes I was PK’d once but I saw it coming. I was in the goblin zone again and I saw 2 humans and they bore down on me, which I expected.


     


     


    This can still be considered harsh in most games but I am starting to understand how DF works, I could be wrong but this is how I have handled it.


     


    A)Once I amass anything I consider too hard to lose I tend to head back to the city and sell, and then bank all nice items + cash


     


    B)I keep spare decent weapons and armour in the bank to equip quickly if I can’t get to my tomb, or its camped.  Only take tools out if I am harvesting


     


    C)Don’t risk anything unless you are happy to lose it.


     


    The biggest revelation I have had is that not everyone will gank you on sight, unlike the experience from my first login.  I have completed missions with other people within view and as always I keep an eye on my health to make sure I can’t get sniped easily.


     


    The game does have some charm about it. I can’t put my finger on it but some key points that contribute to the feel.


     


    - Full PvP, PvE loot.  (very much like Oblivion)


    - 1 character slot – meaning you really do put your heart and soul into one avatar


    - Use any weapon you want.  Like Oblivion you improve skills by actually using them


    - Graphics that changes with the damage you take and arrows stay stuck in you.


    - Massive amount of items, crafting mats and resources.


    - Very good FPS/latency so real time combat and aiming feels quite natural. 


    - NPC’s AI is interesting, no NPC runs in a straight line for easy pickings, they zig zag, run away and hide behind trees etc.


     


    The gameplay reminds me a lot of EvE Online in the sense that you can mine or harvest NPCs in deep unprotected space, but the whole time you are watching the radar and local chat to see if any pirates come in.  The pressure builds as your loot increases and then you can’t handle the thought of losing it so you try and get back to base.  Making it safely back is a buzz as you know the items are now safe. 


     


    The only difference is, in DFO you don’t get a breather from the outset.  It’s like living in low sec / unprotected space the whole time but the world is massive so you do feel like you have some breathing space.


     


    I may or may not sub but the decision may come down to RL and not the game itself.  If I could have it all, I would want more detailed graphics but there is no way you can have this sort of game with AoC quality. 


     


    One critical point that DFO needs to address and that is attracting people like me.  I have been put off from forum posts, reviews and even my first long session in-game.


     


    Where DFO fails miserably is encouraging new players in and developing an environment where you feel you can slowly come to grips with the game.  The immunity timer is now down to 1 hour from 24hr.  But I don’t think this is the biggest issue. They need a much more in-depth tutorial, possibly ‘small’ safe zone outside cities and a chance for their target market to cover the steep learning curve as there is a real danger of people to just quick out of frustration.  They could certainly take a massive page out of Fallen Earth’s book and have a GM in a help channel answering any noob question etc.  A game like DFO needs to demonstrate it’s a real MMO RPG contender and not just a gankfest, PKer FFA.


     


    For now I am sticking with my Alfar and probably subbing for at least 1 month to try and get out of my starting area.  Be interesting to see how the gameplay evolves from there.


     


     


     
  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden Member UncommonPosts: 4,333

    Originally posted by chryses

    @Otter - Answered my question about fighting back, its hard to know the level of a person, probably best to have a go and see I guess.  

    2nd thoughts on DFO community  - after weekend of play


     


    Ok, a longish summarised version of my trial gameplay in DF this weekend.  I created an Orc character but decided it was a little hard to play with the size of the avatar so I decided to go Alfar instead.  I am not sure if starting my trial as a human I just hit a bunch of A.holes, thus my initial thoughts that the player base stunk, but things did change quite dramatically over this weekend. 


     


    Couple of examples.


    1. As an orc I was playing in the noob area killing goblins. I got taken down twice by NPC’s but a complete stranger revived me both times.


     


    2. As an Alfar the race chat is relatively busy and asking a few noob questions they were answered really well and I even had a few people PM me and continue to give me heads up on certain areas and were quite helpful in fact.


     


    Yes I was PK’d once but I saw it coming. I was in the goblin zone again and I saw 2 humans and they bore down on me, which I expected.


     


     


    This can still be considered harsh in most games but I am starting to understand how DF works, I could be wrong but this is how I have handled it.


     


    A)Once I amass anything I consider too hard to lose I tend to head back to the city and sell, and then bank all nice items + cash


     


    B)I keep spare decent weapons and armour in the bank to equip quickly if I can’t get to my tomb, or its camped.  Only take tools out if I am harvesting


     


    C)Don’t risk anything unless you are happy to lose it.


     


    The biggest revelation I have had is that not everyone will gank you on sight, unlike the experience from my first login.  I have completed missions with other people within view and as always I keep an eye on my health to make sure I can’t get sniped easily.


     


    The game does have some charm about it. I can’t put my finger on it but some key points that contribute to the feel.


     


    - Full PvP, PvE loot.  (very much like Oblivion)


    - 1 character slot – meaning you really do put your heart and soul into one avatar


    - Use any weapon you want.  Like Oblivion you improve skills by actually using them


    - Graphics that changes with the damage you take and arrows stay stuck in you.


    - Massive amount of items, crafting mats and resources.


    - Very good FPS/latency so real time combat and aiming feels quite natural. 


    - NPC’s AI is interesting, no NPC runs in a straight line for easy pickings, they zig zag, run away and hide behind trees etc.


     


    The gameplay reminds me a lot of EvE Online in the sense that you can mine or harvest NPCs in deep unprotected space, but the whole time you are watching the radar and local chat to see if any pirates come in.  The pressure builds as your loot increases and then you can’t handle the thought of losing it so you try and get back to base.  Making it safely back is a buzz as you know the items are now safe. 


     


    The only difference is, in DFO you don’t get a breather from the outset.  It’s like living in low sec / unprotected space the whole time but the world is massive so you do feel like you have some breathing space.


     


    I may or may not sub but the decision may come down to RL and not the game itself.  If I could have it all, I would want more detailed graphics but there is no way you can have this sort of game with AoC quality. 


     


    One critical point that DFO needs to address and that is attracting people like me.  I have been put off from forum posts, reviews and even my first long session in-game.


     


    Where DFO fails miserably is encouraging new players in and developing an environment where you feel you can slowly come to grips with the game.  The immunity timer is now down to 1 hour from 24hr.  But I don’t think this is the biggest issue. They need a much more in-depth tutorial, possibly ‘small’ safe zone outside cities and a chance for their target market to cover the steep learning curve as there is a real danger of people to just quick out of frustration.  They could certainly take a massive page out of Fallen Earth’s book and have a GM in a help channel answering any noob question etc.  A game like DFO needs to demonstrate it’s a real MMO RPG contender and not just a gankfest, PKer FFA.


     


    For now I am sticking with my Alfar and probably subbing for at least 1 month to try and get out of my starting area.  Be interesting to see how the gameplay evolves from there.


     


     


     

    DF did a lot for newb experience in the last year  -to the point vets feel no love cause they seems concetrated all the developmenrt efforts on newbies- I also think the substitute for trhe reduced immunity timer are the starter dungeons in capital citys (tho i was never there to experience it myself yet).

    Also you could try yourself and ask GM for help with /gm_help command and watch response time :)

    About you experience i think you invented a pretty solid strategy to avoid the inevitable "pain" caused by dieing a lot to gankers etc in Darkfall  and you counted pretty much some of the points i very much like Darkfall about too.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
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    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

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  •  

    This has been a nice thread to follow. I've just finished my 2 week trial and decided to sub even though I am a carebear at heart.

     

    As someone else said if you are tired of the usual MMO fare, then Darkfall may be for you. That has been the case for me. It has put the ZING back into playing. The level of immersion can be seriously heart thumping even when it is just PvE.

     

    I managed to escape a ganking tonight, and as a very small victory of sorts it felt damn good. As does getting back to a town safely (as you said Chryses) with a nice pile of loot/resources.

     

    I'm a very casual player - in the two week trial I wouldn't have played 12 hours. I lost my newbie protection deliberately so I could try the dungeon below Sanguine. I fear it will be 4-6 months before defending myself leads to victory more often than not. As long as I am having fun in the meantime though, no problem. :)

  • chryseschryses Member UncommonPosts: 1,453

    Originally posted by Strap

     

    This has been a nice thread to follow. I've just finished my 2 week trial and decided to sub even though I am a carebear at heart.

     

    As someone else said if you are tired of the usual MMO fare, then Darkfall may be for you. That has been the case for me. It has put the ZING back into playing. The level of immersion can be seriously heart thumping even when it is just PvE.

     

    I managed to escape a ganking tonight, and as a very small victory of sorts it felt damn good. As does getting back to a town safely (as you said Chryses) with a nice pile of loot/resources.

     

    I'm a very casual player - in the two week trial I wouldn't have played 12 hours. I lost my newbie protection deliberately so I could try the dungeon below Sanguine. I fear it will be 4-6 months before defending myself leads to victory more often than not. As long as I am having fun in the meantime though, no problem. :)

     


    Yea I have to agree with the heart pumping stuff even in PvE.  This morning I managed 1 hour and I nearly died a couple of times, but I found obstacles actually useful in DFO, so I pop behind a rock and madly try and recover before the goblins got over. 


     


    I noticed they have made it very realistic.  An NPC even from long distance will spot you unlike most MMO’s where they walk within 10 feet blissfully unaware of you. 


     


    The last time I had a feeling like this is running a complex in EvE, deep in pirate territory, loaded up to the hilt with expensive loot and then doing the run back to safe space.  Probably the other time I can remember is mining for about 1 hour in Jumpgate in a PvP zone and moving the ore ship out of the belt and back to the jumpgate.  It was like a bad dream where you try and run but don’t move. 


     


    DFO certainly gets the pulse up.   I didn’t know about starter dungeons, I might have to check it out very soon.

  • F3rretsF3rrets Member Posts: 61

    1. your fuckign crazy

    continuing i just started playing got into a clan

    got ganked 9 times my second day playing. looted 5 of those times .got little real little frustration but i just thought to my self.

    cant wait till im a crazy moda fucka like him cause i know ill be effing him up and other people who do that

    and eff up some noobs to .

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by chryses

    Originally posted by Strap

     

    This has been a nice thread to follow. I've just finished my 2 week trial and decided to sub even though I am a carebear at heart.

     

    As someone else said if you are tired of the usual MMO fare, then Darkfall may be for you. That has been the case for me. It has put the ZING back into playing. The level of immersion can be seriously heart thumping even when it is just PvE.

     

    I managed to escape a ganking tonight, and as a very small victory of sorts it felt damn good. As does getting back to a town safely (as you said Chryses) with a nice pile of loot/resources.

     

    I'm a very casual player - in the two week trial I wouldn't have played 12 hours. I lost my newbie protection deliberately so I could try the dungeon below Sanguine. I fear it will be 4-6 months before defending myself leads to victory more often than not. As long as I am having fun in the meantime though, no problem. :)

     


    Yea I have to agree with the heart pumping stuff even in PvE.  This morning I managed 1 hour and I nearly died a couple of times, but I found obstacles actually useful in DFO, so I pop behind a rock and madly try and recover before the goblins got over. 


     


    Oh do I know that feeling lol. I actually saw something resembling teamwork between the goblins the other day.


     

    Was over by a camp of Shaman, Scouts and Fighters (the usual fare) and managed to get the attention of 4. 2 Scouts, a Fighter and a Shaman. Well... there was a game of Cat and Mouse between the fighter and I as he kept running behind the tree at me... as soon as I would swing, he'd turn and run back out into the open - where the 2 scouts and Shaman were standing there ready to attack. He did this numerous times, and it went on for about 3 minutes, and by the end, I was laughing and cursing the damn Fighter for being such a pain in my ass lol.. I'm like, "die already you little bastard!".

       I did eventually beat him, though, and then the two scouts made their way toward the tree... The scouts, I notice, are rather dumb and tend to charge full-steam-ahead more often than not. Fighters seem to be the more tactful ones in my experience. That seems a bit backwards, given that you'd expect a fighter to be the more "let's fight!" type, and the Scout to be the more evasive one... but regardless. It makes for some interesting combat.   Oh, and I did eventually finish off the Shaman who made himself a rather convenient target by continuously turning his back on me to run away.

    In between fights at other times, I found myself healing up as quickly as possible, since a few times they got me knocked down pretty fast and I wasn't in the mood to die... to them, or to some passer-by who might decide to take advantage of my weakened condition.

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • thepeasant98thepeasant98 Member Posts: 215

    Originally posted by chryses

    Edit: As some people are missing the point and continously commenting on it.  FACT: You get a 24 hr immune tag as a new player. I innocently went wandering out and lost this 24 hour protection.  It still doesn't alter my point that on as a new player I found the community quite hostile and didn't appreciate being ganked in the noob area.  Yes the game is FFA and I normally enjoy that but I feel the way DFO is set up, is detrimental to encouraging new players to sub.  I am their target audience and I was put off by my encounters with the community and their actions.  As some have stated in this thread, I could have been unlucky and most decent folks are in guilds.  Fair point.  I am going to play a good few hours this weekend and I will update my notes on my experience in DFO.


    I have been busy playing Fallen Earth for a year now and probably will continue for another year. However I needed a fantasy fix and I have always kept an eye on Darkfall.


     


    I downloaded the trial which generously gives 14 days.


     


    Ok the graphics aren't cutting edge but I understand the need to keep lag down for those crazy battles and free aiming etc.


     


    My biggest disappointment is the community and my first experiences with players.


     


    A few key points:


    1. Tutorial is inadequate so I resorted to asking questions in one of the channels.  What I mostly got was people laughing at my questions or complete silence.  Upon asking 5min, 10min, later, someone was kind enough to answer.


     


    2. I grab 2 basic introduction missions and head out of the starter town.  I probably ran for 20 seconds before a powerful player totally owns me.  Then continues to own me each time I step out.  Great intro to a new MMO I have to say. (Note. they have 24 hr non pvp for new players but I couldnt play for first 24hrs)


     


    3. When I enquired in chat if this was normal behaviour for a much stronger player to own brand new players to the game, I end up with comments like 'Yes, its to keep the carebears away' or 'its all about power in this game'.  Sorry that is Bull.S.  If I go and stomp on a mouse that doesn't make me powerful, it’s just sad and pathetic.


     


    I love PvP and I am attracted to PvP MMO's.  However, if the guys who make Darkfall want to increase their subs through trial users.  They need to improve the tutorial and at least make a small space outside for the starter missions safe.  I know this game is hardcore and I know it is supposed to be real but giving a new starter a chance to breath and work their way through the UI and gameplay without being pwned by every mother out there is not taking away from the focus of the game.


     


    Even so I am sufficiently interested to look into the game more and see how it rolls out, but right now its not the game I worry about, but the community.  Remember, loving PvP doesn't mean you have to be a gutless pwning tool.

     

    Thanks for proving a point, Darkfall is a care bear game..The high level players needs to camp around the noob area to show how powerful they are? Now thats classic..It must be the best hardcore game that anyone dont want to play..haha

    Is this all that Darkfall has to offer? Buy the game pay for the sub..And Sit and pawn noobs all day at the starting area..I will wait for the next 10 years for the best hard core game to come out...lol

  • WSIMikeWSIMike Member Posts: 5,564

    Originally posted by thepeasant98

     

     

    Thanks for proving a point, Darkfall is a care bear game..The high level players needs to camp around the noob area to show how powerful they are? Now thats classic..It must be the best hardcore game that anyone dont want to play..haha

    Is this all that Darkfall has to offer? Buy the game pay for the sub..And Sit and pawn noobs all day at the starting area..I will wait for the next 10 years for the best hard core game to come out...lol

    1. Name me any PvP MMORPG where you won't find some higher level or more powerful players camping lower level players, ganking people much weaker than themselves. They did it in Shadowbane, they did it in UO, they did/do it in Lineage 2... and so forth. It's not a sign of a "carebear game", it's a sign of there being some "carebear players" who think ganking newbies or otherwise easy targets is "hardcore PvP".

    2. Go to YouTube and do a search for Darkfall PvP... see all the large battles going on between clans of highly developed players over a town, etc... then come back and claim that "DF is all about pwning noobs all day at the starting area".

    "If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road,
    and the cash shop selling asphalt..."
    - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops

    image

  • Perdition_ukPerdition_uk Member Posts: 181

    Unfortunately "Sandbox" usually results in "Cat Litter Tray". It's a shame, but even in all those years of DF being vaporware, everyone knew it would be an epeen gankfest bwhen it arrived.

  • vladakovvladakov Member Posts: 710

    what is it with all this ganking people talk about,

     

    i played quite a while on the EU realm,  and about  i've only been ganked twice.

    there are tons of people that helped me with questions about anything,  alot of people gave me a mount or

    shitloads of armor.

     

    i'm just like    <.<   when people complain about gankers, never been a problem for me.

    image

  • BuniontToesBuniontToes Member Posts: 529

    Originally posted by chryses




    One critical point that DFO needs to address and that is attracting people like me.  I have been put off from forum posts, reviews and even my first long session in-game.


     


    Where DFO fails miserably is encouraging new players in and developing an environment where you feel you can slowly come to grips with the game.  The immunity timer is now down to 1 hour from 24hr.  But I don’t think this is the biggest issue. They need a much more in-depth tutorial, possibly ‘small’ safe zone outside cities and a chance for their target market to cover the steep learning curve as there is a real danger of people to just quick out of frustration.  They could certainly take a massive page out of Fallen Earth’s book and have a GM in a help channel answering any noob question etc.  A game like DFO needs to demonstrate it’s a real MMO RPG contender and not just a gankfest, PKer FFA.


     


    For now I am sticking with my Alfar and probably subbing for at least 1 month to try and get out of my starting area.  Be interesting to see how the gameplay evolves from there.


     


     


     

    I 100% agree with this.  This is the first game I have seen which does not moderate its own forums and it has really hurt the game.  Even here at MMORPG the trolls nearly outnumber the players giving real information.  There is so much mis-information around it is really saddening.

     

    As for in game help, the clan NEW already provides a lot of help.  Maybe new players should be joined with NEW automatically on login this wouldd help. 

     

    Unfortunately AV does not explain how the game mechancis work.  it took nearly a year for anyone to breakdown how combat damage works.  Even to this day there are still people propogating myths about stat contribution to combat damage.

  • MadimorgaMadimorga Member UncommonPosts: 1,920

    Originally posted by vladakov

    what is it with all this ganking people talk about,

     

    i played quite a while on the EU realm,  and about  i've only been ganked twice.

    there are tons of people that helped me with questions about anything,  alot of people gave me a mount or

    shitloads of armor.

     

    i'm just like    <.<   when people complain about gankers, never been a problem for me.

     

    I have to agree with you.  I've had a similar experience so far on NA.  People run up and I go, "Oh no, oh no, I'm going to die!" And then they open trade and give me stuff.  I've had random players kill mobs so I could get to my grave and get my stuff back.  I've had enemy races ride up, look me over, and ride on when they saw the state of my gear and combat abilities (or lack thereof).  I've been ganked by enemy players who still left me all my gear (including my mining pick and regs they could have taken and used).  

     

    And I've had players who are even newer or less equipped than my dwarf start to run when they see me coming.  So I've started dropping heals on random people.  But sometimes that still scares the bejeezus out of them.  Then again, the first time someone healed me, I thought I was a goner, too. 

    image

    I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

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  • mo0rbidmo0rbid Member Posts: 363

    Darkfall is a very special mmo. It can make you angry as hell and sometimes give you sick adrenaline rushes


    Also, if I kill another player really quick I ress them. And if I can tell they are noobs I usually don't take their loot either since it's virtually nothing for me but it may be everyting he owns right there in his grave.

    image


  • Originally posted by mo0rbid

    Darkfall is a very special mmo. It can make you angry as hell and sometimes give you sick adrenaline rushes



    Also, if I kill another player really quick I ress them. And if I can tell they are noobs I usually don't take their loot either since it's virtually nothing for me but it may be everyting he owns right there in his grave.

     

    Just a quick caution about accepting a rez... if someone is farming you for alignment, they'll very likely just kill you again. Then rez you again and if you are stupid enough to accept... kill you again.

     

    It happened to me twice. A pair of alfar (I think) were ganking starting players around the goblin areas. One of the guys tried to tell me it wasn't griefing 'cause his friend needed to swing his alignment back and they didn't take *all* my loot. How these people justify being complete assholes to themselves is amazing.

     

    For a moment there I thought I'd struck on one of these decent players who didn't realise they'd attacked a new player. For me, they are still a myth.

     

    And just to be clear... I understand it is FFA PvP and accept this. I'm simply saying I prefer to be ganked and looted and treated as a real enemy than repeatedly ganked while being told it is "all good". As far as I can see, these guys were essentially side stepping the whole alignment system by trying to find players who didn't mind getting killed over and over again.

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