Honestly I just dont think CCP would put a cash shop into the game. Like you said players are already going nuts over remaps with plex. CCP isnt a stupid developer.
Probably not, but they might be able to get away with it if the change happens gradually enough, and if they disguise the micro-transactions.
That's what worries me... a lot of players aren't too smart, and simply think of PLEX in terms of just paying ISK for them. In their minds, trading ISK for PLEX somehow removes the $17.50 from the equation entirely, and they say things like (paraphrasing): "You can just pay ISK for it, you don't have to use real money."
It's a form of money-laundering and obfuscation. Red flags have gone up all over the place, because PLEX for remaps absolutely reeks of CCP stealthily testing the waters for viability of micro-transactions.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Honestly I just dont think CCP would put a cash shop into the game. Like you said players are already going nuts over remaps with plex. CCP isnt a stupid developer.
Probably not, but they might be able to get away with if the change happens gradually enough, and if they disguise the micro-transactions.
That's what worries me... a lot of players aren't too smart, and simply think of PLEX in terms of just paying ISK for them. In their minds, trading ISK for PLEX somehow removes the $17.50 from the equation entirely, and they say things like (paraphrasing): "You can just pay ISK for it, you don't have to use real money."
It's a form of money-laundering and obfuscation. Red flags have gone up all over the place, because PLEX for remaps absolutely reeks of CCP stealthily testing the waters for viability of micro-transactions.
Honestly as long as i could buy the revamps or fluff items with in game isk i dont see how its hurting me or the game overall. Maybe you can explain it because right now im not seeing the damage it would cause.
If it begins and ends with PLEX -> remap and fluff items (hopefully only Incarna fluff items)?
That would be perfectly fine, sure, and I wouldn't have a problem with it. If they don't continue down the slippery slope, then there's no issue.
Frankly, I personally stand to benefit from micro-transactions more than most. I've been playing pay-for-perks text MUDs for years, and you may have heard that they're stupidly expensive. They are.
I just don't want to see EVE go that route, because it would drastically change the dynamics of the game.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I care about these fluff and non-gameplay things in game, I'll regularly choose something that seems more fun or role play like over the most effective thing. These fluff things are one of the things I play eve for.
Why the hell are we being singled out as having to go through some special process to get what we want in game? I'm sure some people will say it's server requirements but compare server requirements of an extra client side skin to say a 1200 man fleet battle, should we make people pay extra to be involved in large fleet battles to help pay for servers? Or maybe we should make all new caldari players pay an extra 20% on their subscription to help run Jita.
We may still be able to get these by buying plex with isk or just using in game isk. But you've tied the fluff item market to the plex market. I thought ccp was trying to make the market depend on in game player actions, such as making POS buildable by players, but by doing this they've made any fluff item market artificial.
Is this game breaking? No.
Is this a massive kick in the balls to any fluff players? Hell yes.
PS: I hope to god they havn't moved tattoo's to this sort of system.....
To those of you who are against the PLEX for Remap.
Can any of you explain to me why this is any less balancing than a PVP char who can afford to have +5s stuck in at all times?
A full head of +5s, is around 700 to 800mil, take out Charm and you're still looking at 600-700mil. An average heavy PVP player, who plays at least 12hrs a week, is going to get podded around once a month (sometimes more, sometimes less, once a month is a safe bet). That's 700mil per month. A remap would need to be much less frequent than that, and is alot cheaper.
If anything, it will be a better balance between those who can afford +5s and those who can't. At least people like me who can't afford +5s in my PVP JCs, won't be completely lost.
Well for one thing, the guy with the head full of +5s get get podded at any time. The remapper's investment is 100% protected.
Fluff or not I oppose the introduction of it. We pay a subscription and should have access to all content. I wont use the ' slippery slope' argument as microtransactions with fluff is bad enough in itself. It belongs in "free" games, not subscription games.
Whether we like it or not; it's THEIR product, THEIR service and they can do whatever they like. They don't owe us anything thing, there's no magical rulebook in the sky saying this kind of behavior is evil and that they need to be struck down... It wouldn't make sense for CCP to kill EvE's economy with some new super laser or hyperspeed MWD anyway...
So, some guy get's some uber fluff paint job on his ship for 5 extra bucks; yay, bonus whining in local when he gets popped.
Likewise, it's MY money and I can choose not to fund THEIR products if I don't agree with their business decisions such as this.
However, I don't personally play Eve, as it's simply not my cup of tea, but I have great respect for the company and what they've did with their game, and that respect took a blow from reading this news.
We'll see what incarna brings with the fluff, but anythign that can be bought with ingame money (plex's) and can be converted into something isn't bad imho.
If its £14.99 to buy a ship, then I would leave and never be seen again - as this will screw up the economy
If it begins and ends with PLEX -> remap and fluff items (hopefully only Incarna fluff items)?
That would be perfectly fine, sure, and I wouldn't have a problem with it. If they don't continue down the slippery slope, then there's no issue.
Frankly, I personally stand to benefit from micro-transactions more than most. I've been playing pay-for-perks text MUDs for years, and you may have heard that they're stupidly expensive. They are.
I just don't want to see EVE go that route, because it would drastically change the dynamics of the game.
Mr. Overinflated here. Just wanted to pop in and comment that this post is all you should've said in the first place. Instead of appearing to attack CCP and prophecizing doom and gloom because of the slippery slope, you say "if." That's right. There's no guarantee CCP will roll down that fun slide to Hell, which was the impression of some of your earlier posts. That's the only reason I responded the way I did.
I look at one post at a time, like I'm doing with this one. You care about the game, you don't want CCP to be like other developers who, I agree, have gone down the slippery slope. And you can be loud in your dissent. Just make more posts like this, please, and not like the one earlier.
What happens when your customised ship gets ganked?
Could be like the old SWG paint kits that had "x" amount of charges. Still, I'd be a bit disappointed to see cash shop items as that, to me, would imply those items are not player crafted or would devalue the player crafted equivalent.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
What happens when your customised ship gets ganked?
Lol and there in lies the rub.
Yeah when people start directly paying CCP real money for shiny, I think we can justifiably be concerned about what will happen to the PvP rules, especially in hi-sec.
What amuses me are all the arguements here. Like CCP even reads any of these forums. Watching all the nerd rage is like seeing a Beta (The fish) attack a mirror reflection of itself at the side of the tank.
Anyways, this won't kill the game. If people want to pay for fluff, let them. The idea that the company wants to make a profit is evil is laughable at best. Of course they want to make a profit, they just don't care who is paying for the account so long as -someone- is paying for the account. Also trying to compare ISK to real money like it's some other evil plan makes me wonder about the sanity of some of you guys.
As does people who complain when they don't even play the game. Wow. That's just... wow.
PS: The whole game can be bought for real money, except for training time. Even these remaps aren't gonna change much with that. I love PLEX, they make it so I can play the game for free, on my end anyways, I love the idea that they're going to get more valuable too as it should juice up the economy some more. I also cannot wait to gank someone's Leopard Spotted paint jobbed Jaguar either
After a truly epic journey involving an absolutely excruciating flight on IcelandAir, whose seats should be outlawed under the Geneva Convention as instruments of torture, your humble correspondent, jet-lagged, sleep-deprived, over-caffeinated, and under-medicated, girded his loins, and, in the brave company of the rest of the CSM (doughty forum-warriors all), descended upon CCP HQ for the first day of our special bonus summit, armed only with his trusty Gallente Navy Tritanium Assault Spork, the Official Weapon of the CSM™.
Three times did we clash with the fearsome Jötunn of Iceland in furious meeting. When the sun set, blood red on the horizon, many were the powerpoints that lay broken and bleeding on the floor of the conference cave. One day, the bards will sing of the many brave deeds of your elected representatives, but that day will only come after expiration of the fearsome NDA's, which even the bravest heroes dare not challenge, lest they be cast into the outer darkness.
Each CSM, in turn, stood at the vanguard, hurling sharp comments at our opponents, and yeah, let it be known that no trolls were to be found on either side of the battle. The fight was fair, the combatants cheerful, and the most skillful blows were rewarded with the applause of all involved.
But what, you ask, was learned this day? What plans do the Jötunn have for the future of EVE? To find out these things, the CSM captured and interrogated King Hilmar himself. We will provide more details later, but in summary:
* Production of shiny new things will be reduced, so that more polish can be manufactured and applied to that which already exists.
* The Jötunn will apply dark knowledge they have wrested from the Camarilla to make possible even more titanic battles in New Eden, and have developed ways to administer additional cures for the mysterious malady known as "Lag" more quickly.
* Player (and CSM) complaints have moved the stony hearts of the Jötunn, and they will endeavor to be more responsive to our desires in the future.
The burning question of the day was, of course, that of microtransactions, which, despite several hours of trying, I cannot cast into faux Norse mythological allusion; therefore the last part of this report will have to be delivered straight. The CSM expressed in no uncertain terms the playerreaction to the introduction of PLEX for Remaps, and listened to CCP's rationale for introducing them.
CCP stated that PLEX for Remaps was not the first step of either changing EVE to be a microtransaction-based game, or making additional microtransactions effectively required for competitive gameplay. They viewed it as a very small experiment to expand the utility of PLEX and honestly did not think that it would be considered a significant gameplay change, or be widely used except as a repair mechanism.
The CSM explained why the players believe this was a mistake, and made several suggestions about possible solutions. CCP seemed to take these suggestions seriously, but no commitments were made. However, we will be having a second meeting tomorrow with Count Eyjo, Chancellor of the Exchequer, that will touch upon this issue, and we may be able to report further progress at that time. In addition, King Hilmar asked the CSM to prepare a detailed report upon this subject, which he promised to consider most carefully.
At this point, we released the King from the bonds we had placed upon him, in part because he was being quite reasonable (for a Jötunn, anyway), but mostly because we were getting hungry and he promised to buy us lunch.
That's a pretty good read. After reading various responses, I don't have much of an issue with PLEX for remaps. As many have pointed out, and looking at my own skill plan, people tend to train at max, or near max, SP/hour anyhow so remaps just add some flexibility and would provide another ISK sink.
It'll be interesting to see how the remaining discussion turns out.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Comments
Probably not, but they might be able to get away with it if the change happens gradually enough, and if they disguise the micro-transactions.
That's what worries me... a lot of players aren't too smart, and simply think of PLEX in terms of just paying ISK for them. In their minds, trading ISK for PLEX somehow removes the $17.50 from the equation entirely, and they say things like (paraphrasing): "You can just pay ISK for it, you don't have to use real money."
It's a form of money-laundering and obfuscation. Red flags have gone up all over the place, because PLEX for remaps absolutely reeks of CCP stealthily testing the waters for viability of micro-transactions.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Honestly as long as i could buy the revamps or fluff items with in game isk i dont see how its hurting me or the game overall. Maybe you can explain it because right now im not seeing the damage it would cause.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
If it begins and ends with PLEX -> remap and fluff items (hopefully only Incarna fluff items)?
That would be perfectly fine, sure, and I wouldn't have a problem with it. If they don't continue down the slippery slope, then there's no issue.
Frankly, I personally stand to benefit from micro-transactions more than most. I've been playing pay-for-perks text MUDs for years, and you may have heard that they're stupidly expensive. They are.
I just don't want to see EVE go that route, because it would drastically change the dynamics of the game.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
Honestly I just don't have the time in my life to worry about this bullshit.
CCP said its only attributes and Incarna fluff.
Ill take thier word for it (even though i already voiced my opinion on the official forums).
if they do decided to fuck up the game by putting in OP shit in a cash only shop (not bought with plex).
Then i will leave for Perpetuum, a game that has the potential to be the Mech version of EvE.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
OK this... pisses me off.
I care about these fluff and non-gameplay things in game, I'll regularly choose something that seems more fun or role play like over the most effective thing. These fluff things are one of the things I play eve for.
Why the hell are we being singled out as having to go through some special process to get what we want in game? I'm sure some people will say it's server requirements but compare server requirements of an extra client side skin to say a 1200 man fleet battle, should we make people pay extra to be involved in large fleet battles to help pay for servers? Or maybe we should make all new caldari players pay an extra 20% on their subscription to help run Jita.
We may still be able to get these by buying plex with isk or just using in game isk. But you've tied the fluff item market to the plex market. I thought ccp was trying to make the market depend on in game player actions, such as making POS buildable by players, but by doing this they've made any fluff item market artificial.
Is this game breaking? No.
Is this a massive kick in the balls to any fluff players? Hell yes.
PS: I hope to god they havn't moved tattoo's to this sort of system.....
Into the breach meatbags
Im kinda tired and don't feel like rereading the article but did they say we wont beable to buy fluff items in incarna with in game isk?
I could of sworn you could.
Maybe I read it wrong?
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Well for one thing, the guy with the head full of +5s get get podded at any time. The remapper's investment is 100% protected.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Likewise, it's MY money and I can choose not to fund THEIR products if I don't agree with their business decisions such as this.
However, I don't personally play Eve, as it's simply not my cup of tea, but I have great respect for the company and what they've did with their game, and that respect took a blow from reading this news.
Mr. Overinflated here. Just wanted to pop in and comment that this post is all you should've said in the first place. Instead of appearing to attack CCP and prophecizing doom and gloom because of the slippery slope, you say "if." That's right. There's no guarantee CCP will roll down that fun slide to Hell, which was the impression of some of your earlier posts. That's the only reason I responded the way I did.
I look at one post at a time, like I'm doing with this one. You care about the game, you don't want CCP to be like other developers who, I agree, have gone down the slippery slope. And you can be loud in your dissent. Just make more posts like this, please, and not like the one earlier.
I'd pay for a paint job on my ship lol
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
What happens when your customised ship gets ganked?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Could be like the old SWG paint kits that had "x" amount of charges. Still, I'd be a bit disappointed to see cash shop items as that, to me, would imply those items are not player crafted or would devalue the player crafted equivalent.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
om nom nom nom KM in $$$ me want this
BestSigEver :P
Lol and there in lies the rub.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Yeah when people start directly paying CCP real money for shiny, I think we can justifiably be concerned about what will happen to the PvP rules, especially in hi-sec.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
What amuses me are all the arguements here. Like CCP even reads any of these forums. Watching all the nerd rage is like seeing a Beta (The fish) attack a mirror reflection of itself at the side of the tank.
Anyways, this won't kill the game. If people want to pay for fluff, let them. The idea that the company wants to make a profit is evil is laughable at best. Of course they want to make a profit, they just don't care who is paying for the account so long as -someone- is paying for the account. Also trying to compare ISK to real money like it's some other evil plan makes me wonder about the sanity of some of you guys.
As does people who complain when they don't even play the game. Wow. That's just... wow.
PS: The whole game can be bought for real money, except for training time. Even these remaps aren't gonna change much with that. I love PLEX, they make it so I can play the game for free, on my end anyways, I love the idea that they're going to get more valuable too as it should juice up the economy some more. I also cannot wait to gank someone's Leopard Spotted paint jobbed Jaguar either
A highly encouraging development
http://treborofthecsm.blogspot.com/2010/10/ragnarok-in-reykjavik.html
Tuesday, October 12, 2010
Ragnarök in Reykjavik
After a truly epic journey involving an absolutely excruciating flight on IcelandAir, whose seats should be outlawed under the Geneva Convention as instruments of torture, your humble correspondent, jet-lagged, sleep-deprived, over-caffeinated, and under-medicated, girded his loins, and, in the brave company of the rest of the CSM (doughty forum-warriors all), descended upon CCP HQ for the first day of our special bonus summit, armed only with his trusty Gallente Navy Tritanium Assault Spork, the Official Weapon of the CSM™.
Three times did we clash with the fearsome Jötunn of Iceland in furious meeting. When the sun set, blood red on the horizon, many were the powerpoints that lay broken and bleeding on the floor of the conference cave. One day, the bards will sing of the many brave deeds of your elected representatives, but that day will only come after expiration of the fearsome NDA's, which even the bravest heroes dare not challenge, lest they be cast into the outer darkness.
Each CSM, in turn, stood at the vanguard, hurling sharp comments at our opponents, and yeah, let it be known that no trolls were to be found on either side of the battle. The fight was fair, the combatants cheerful, and the most skillful blows were rewarded with the applause of all involved.
But what, you ask, was learned this day? What plans do the Jötunn have for the future of EVE? To find out these things, the CSM captured and interrogated King Hilmar himself. We will provide more details later, but in summary:
* Production of shiny new things will be reduced, so that more polish can be manufactured and applied to that which already exists.
* The Jötunn will apply dark knowledge they have wrested from the Camarilla to make possible even more titanic battles in New Eden, and have developed ways to administer additional cures for the mysterious malady known as "Lag" more quickly.
* Player (and CSM) complaints have moved the stony hearts of the Jötunn, and they will endeavor to be more responsive to our desires in the future.
The burning question of the day was, of course, that of microtransactions, which, despite several hours of trying, I cannot cast into faux Norse mythological allusion; therefore the last part of this report will have to be delivered straight. The CSM expressed in no uncertain terms the player reaction to the introduction of PLEX for Remaps, and listened to CCP's rationale for introducing them.
CCP stated that PLEX for Remaps was not the first step of either changing EVE to be a microtransaction-based game, or making additional microtransactions effectively required for competitive gameplay. They viewed it as a very small experiment to expand the utility of PLEX and honestly did not think that it would be considered a significant gameplay change, or be widely used except as a repair mechanism.
The CSM explained why the players believe this was a mistake, and made several suggestions about possible solutions. CCP seemed to take these suggestions seriously, but no commitments were made. However, we will be having a second meeting tomorrow with Count Eyjo, Chancellor of the Exchequer, that will touch upon this issue, and we may be able to report further progress at that time. In addition, King Hilmar asked the CSM to prepare a detailed report upon this subject, which he promised to consider most carefully.
At this point, we released the King from the bonds we had placed upon him, in part because he was being quite reasonable (for a Jötunn, anyway), but mostly because we were getting hungry and he promised to buy us lunch.
Posted by MadOverlord at 5:06 AM
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Give me liberty or give me lasers
That's a pretty good read. After reading various responses, I don't have much of an issue with PLEX for remaps. As many have pointed out, and looking at my own skill plan, people tend to train at max, or near max, SP/hour anyhow so remaps just add some flexibility and would provide another ISK sink.
It'll be interesting to see how the remaining discussion turns out.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence