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Anyone asking for a refund for FFXIV?

2

Comments

  • nickster29nickster29 Member Posts: 486

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

    Originally posted by nickster29

    Nope.  Gonna just play out the free month relatively casually, and not going to renew.

     

    I will however keep track of patches & changes going on with the game.  I am relatively sure the game will be improved by the time PS3 version rolls around.  I played FFXI for over 5 years and watched how SE continually added to and improved FFXI.  I only hope they can do the same with FFXIV.

    But yeah, I have a feeling that SE is using us PC users as guinea pigs in order to see what direction the users want the game to be taken in.  That way when the PS3 release comes out, their primary audience (the console players), will have a great game to play

    While I do find this a little crude for SE to do to us PC users, I can see why.  With almost no console MMO competition, if they can release a good MMO on the consoles, they can grab the greater part of the console MMO market.  *sigh* 

     

    After all, whats the best type of Beta testers?

    Answer:  The kind that pays!

    I think you are right. It's unfortunate, but honest. On the other hand, given the plethora of negative publicity are people going to buy the console version?

    It is possible.  I don't know many console exclusive gamers that pay attention to the current events of the PC gaming market.  Also, this initial negative publicity could end up reaching many more ears than it normally would, bad news tends to spread faster and wider than good news.  The reason for this is, if by chance SE turns this game around, the wider exposure may end up reaching more ears yet again.... something around the reaction of "Oh, Final Fantasy XIV?  Yeah, I heard that game was absolutely terrible.  Oh, what?  They fixed many of the problems?  Hmm....."

     

    If SE can fix FFXIV by the time the PS3 rolls around, it gives FFXIV another chance at good reviews from the same publications that gave FFXIV a less than favorable review previously.

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

    Square-Enix flat out said no, lol. At least I tried.

    Are you going to ask for a refund anyways, even if you know they are going to tell you no?

    As I bought it from gamestop I wont ask for my money back... they'd just tell me to shove it anyways. However, I wont buy any more SE products. I tried the beta, and liked what I saw, most of the drastic flaws I didnt like (the strict quest system, lack of content, lack of group content, lack of any real quests, lack of an economy...etc etc) werent apparent till post beta.

    Most of the issues I had, fanboys said would be fixed at launch...well here we are a week post launch and its still broke, so go figure.

  • Itchy01Itchy01 Member Posts: 103

    Square Enix simply made the game the only real possibility of getting a return would come from the outlet that sold you the game and they typically have a "no returns on open software" policy. The exception being if the product is in itself faulty.

    Square Enix not giving refunds makes sense when you consider they don't know where you bought the game from in the first place and your original vendor would be keeping any profit they made on the original sale while SE would be out not just the price of the physical product but also the profit that your vendor made by selling it to you.

    EX.

    If a person buys a book and takes it home to discover they have the same copy they take it back to the bookstore they bought it from for customer service, they don't contact the distributor or publisher to get the issue resolved.

  • moeloehoemoeloehoe Member Posts: 6

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

    Originally posted by moeloehoe


    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks


    Originally posted by moeloehoe

    it is SE you played their game (some minutes at least) and bought it. why should they give you refunds if you used the Registration-key? and again it's SE

    I can understand your opinion with SE, so are you telling me this is a company with a history that typically has a no refund/no return policy? Are they consumer friendly? Do consumers have any power to influence an industry?

    What formed your customer service opinion with SE? Is it your experience with FFXI?

    yep that is is. SE does never give Refunds. where did you buy it? but i can tell you they will not give refunds wherever you bought it. The reason is the yes numerical code you used to registrate your product. sorry to say but you invested your 50$ wrong then.

     

    i recently gave back Siren Blood curse. only thing the seller did want to clear: did you have to register online? no? okay you can get your money back if you want. bought dragon age instead (for Ps3)

    I personally don't think games are investments, but rather expenses. My apple holdings are investments; my car is a waste asset. I don't mean to differentiate in a negative way, but rather to clarify my own belief. I will not get a return on capital for buying a videogame. I might get psychic income, because I'm a gamer, not a gold farmer. Those guys in Entropia are changing that model though. 

    Where did you buy the game that gave you a refund? Sounds like a good retailer.

    german big Multimedia reseller. so they don't bother that much about it.

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by NyQuil81

    Informed consumers research their purchases before making them.  Not just games, but cars, houses, stocks, whatever.  When you blindly make a purchase, you're pretty much accepting to take whatever they give you.  It's just an unfortunate condition of the times that people too often can get reimbursed for making stupid decisions.  There is no more personal responsibility or accountability.  You weren't smart with your money?  It wasn't your fault, oh no, it was the company for screwing you.

    It's just a tired mentality to me.  There is almost TOO much information online about FFXIV that any consumer could have accessed before making the purchase.  All i'm saying, is be a bit more proactive in your financial decisions.  If I recall correctly, you made a post about your fighting for refunds on APB, as well.  Seems like blind purchases might be the norm for you, and you're causing yourself alot of undue stress.

    I'm very smart with my money. I'm about as capitalist as a human can possibly get. I can afford to buy any game I want. On the other hand, don't you think there is an issue with the industry? If not, I'm cool with that, but I disagree. I'm no Jack Thompson, I'm not trying to demonize game companies. I buy their products for entertainment, but if there is a faulty product, or a company does not live up to it's promises, why shouldn't you hold them accountable? Why be afraid to question conventional wisdom. The crowd is NOT always right. Believe me. 

  • NyQuil81NyQuil81 Member Posts: 101

     

    I personally don't think games are investments, but rather expenses. My apple holdings are investments; my car is a waste asset. I don't mean to differentiate in a negative way, but rather to clarify my own belief. I will not get a return on capital for buying a videogame. I might get psychic income, because I'm a gamer, not a gold farmer. Those guys in Entropia are changing that model though.

     The bevy of characters and accounts for every MMO available for sale on E-bay would beg to differ.  Like it or not, time invested in an MMO does generate actual value, because there is an after-market for in-game items and characters.  This is not new, either, it has been going on since MUD days.  Gemstone is a good example of this, as I had friends who made good amounts of profit off their monthly transactions. 

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by nickster29

    Originally posted by Melieza

    Trying to return a game is like trying to return a donut after you ate it saying it wasnt good.

    You still ate it.

     

    That is my sentiment also, though it varies just a bit.  The reason you should not be able to return it is because the "No Returns on Opened Software" is a standard in the entire gaming industry.  The ONLY time you are able to return an opened video game or computer software is if there was a manufacturer defect that would prevent you from using the product.

    So, if you are complaining about not being able to return FFXIV for a full refund, SE is just doing the same as every other software / gaming company out there.

    I believe it's a poor standard. MMO's are different from console games. 

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by Robokapp

    Why are returns so taboo in videogames?

     

    because you buy the game to play it not to enjoy it. different concepts. If the cd is broken and they replace it with an identical product, that's fine. If they replace it with another game, you just played 2 games for the price of 1 and costed a company $60 for no technical reasons. a broken cd is worth zero. the product you return is still worth $60. Why did you return a product that's working?

    I believe this standard can lead to poor development decisions. The marginal cost of producing 1 more videogame is probably $1, and not $60. I'm not speaking of development costs, just the marginal cost of producing 1 additional unit.

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Member UncommonPosts: 1,671

    Originally posted by Emhster

    Originally posted by abyss610

     pretty much THIS for everything you're gunna argue about. there is a reason games and cds have a no returns policies, they're too easy to copy for one. and for games there have more than a few i just flat out beat in a single day, i got everything out of it they put in but i could still return in the same day and say "i just didn't like it". even if i like them most platform games i rarely sit and play through a second time.

    I think it has to do with purchasing something considered as Intellectual Property such as music, videogames, softwares, books and art. You can get a refund on a DVD as long as its seal is not broken. Once you break it, the DVD is yours (except if the DVD itself is physically altered).

    If you don't like a book, a music or even a painting, you cannot get a refund... You can just resell it as long as you bought it on a physical support... with the exception of DRM protected videogames.

    In some parts of the software industry, publishers or developers are liable of their product; Should the product be defective and cause any harm, users can and will bring the author to court.

     At least where I live you can return and get a refund on books and paintings at the original store they were purchased at.  Just not dvd's, music, and games.

    Steam: Neph

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by dinams

    You will never get  a refund just because you dont liked it...

     

    So you buy a game, you dont like and you ask your money back? Its not how things works nowadays...

    If you had a company would you stand behind your products? 

    I've seen plenty of people return items to say, Nordstroms or Walmart, because they didn't like it. MMOS cannot be easily copied and distributed, this is not a piracy issue, so I don't believe the console/piracy argument holds any weight. 

  • MeliezaMelieza Member Posts: 269

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

    If you had a company would you stand behind your products? 

    I've seen plenty of people return items to say, Nordstroms or Walmart, because they didn't like it. MMOS cannot be easily copied and distributed, this is not a piracy issue, so I don't believe the console/piracy argument holds any weight. 

     MMOs cannot be easily copied and distributed? LOL Then why I can I download just about any MMO I want?  That is why you pay 50$ for a cd key, because there is no way for company to force you to pay for software.  The Internet won.

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by Melieza

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

     Bad customer service seems ubiquitous. My point is the "All sales are final" attitude can lead to crappy software. MMO's, on the other hand, require you to log into an account on their server. I'm not sure how you would copy the game and be able to play. It's a different industry, so why does it retain the same draconian model?

     Because you can reactivate your account at any time!  You get your 50$ back but you can still (if you reactivate your account) play the game.  That is unfair, everyone would do it and end up just paying for the subscription fee of every MMO.  If, after cancelling your subscription, they destroyed that key and your account then MAYBE they would accept refunds.

    But thats not how it works.

    Does this, in your opinion, improve overall gaming quality? Does it improve the relationship between developers and their consumers? Is there something about the system that you would improve?

  • EmhsterEmhster Member UncommonPosts: 916

    Originally posted by Nephaerius

     At least where I live you can return and get a refund on books and paintings at the original store they were purchased at.  Just not dvd's, music, and games.

    After a checking few store policies, I stand corrected regarding books and paintings. So I guess it goes for any purchased 'physical medias', and it really depends on the store.

    Amazon for example, gives you a 50% refund on a video game that has been unwrapped.

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by Emhster

    Originally posted by Nephaerius



     At least where I live you can return and get a refund on books and paintings at the original store they were purchased at.  Just not dvd's, music, and games.

    After a checking few store policies, I stand corrected regarding books and paintings. So I guess it goes for any purchased 'physical medias', and it really depends on the store.

    Amazon for example, gives you a 50% refund on a video game that has been unwrapped.

    Amazon's a great company. Love to use them.

  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,335

    I try to look at the positive side. Basically I look at my initial purchase money going toward the artists and Nobuo who at least were NOT to blame on this game. Sadly the other "developers" get paid too, but they will suffer from me not resubbing :D

  • Itchy01Itchy01 Member Posts: 103

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

    Originally posted by dinams

    You will never get  a refund just because you dont liked it...

     

    So you buy a game, you dont like and you ask your money back? Its not how things works nowadays...

    If you had a company would you stand behind your products? 

    I've seen plenty of people return items to say, Nordstroms or Walmart, because they didn't like it. MMOS cannot be easily copied and distributed, this is not a piracy issue, so I don't believe the console/piracy argument holds any weight. 

    People are returning to their retailers not the producers based on the return policies of whatever item they purchased. One of the most common questions retailers get is "whats your return policy?".  If you didn't know the return policies when you purchased the game this might be a good question to ask. If on the other hand you knew the return policies when you purchased the game and are now here this thread could be easily put in General chat discussing the return policies of open software.

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by elocke

    I try to look at the positive side. Basically I look at my initial purchase money going toward the artists and Nobuo who at least were NOT to blame on this game. Sadly the other "developers" get paid too, but they will suffer from me not resubbing :D

    Actually, that's a good point. I stay subbed to some games to support them, even though I'm not currently playing them. I can afford to do this. I'm not starving by any means. I love MMOS.

    The art quality of FFXIV and the graphics are actually quite good. I'm not complaining about that. I've stated in other threads that it is a strong point. In my opinion, the finished product is not suitable for sale. In my opinion, the game is broken and I'd like to get a refund. 

    You are a reasonable optimist. Nice post.

  • ianicusianicus Member UncommonPosts: 665

    I think the whole "you used the registration key so tuff shit" argument is bull. If Square were decent enought o offer a refund to a player who say played the game for 48 hours and was SO repulsed he demanded a refund, they could easily issue said refund and wipe said account and tregistration number from thier system which would prevent and resubbing, simply solution. Games should be like any other consumer product, give me something that works or expect to be reimbursing me for it.

    "Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said…’I’m too drunk to taste this chicken." - Ricky Bobby
  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by Itchy01

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks


    Originally posted by dinams

    You will never get  a refund just because you dont liked it...

     

    So you buy a game, you dont like and you ask your money back? Its not how things works nowadays...

    If you had a company would you stand behind your products? 

    I've seen plenty of people return items to say, Nordstroms or Walmart, because they didn't like it. MMOS cannot be easily copied and distributed, this is not a piracy issue, so I don't believe the console/piracy argument holds any weight. 

    People are returning to their retailers not the producers based on the return policies of whatever item they purchased. One of the most common questions retailers get is "whats your return policy?".  If you didn't know the return policies when you purchased the game this might be a good question to ask. If on the other hand you knew the return policies when you purchased the game and are now here this thread could be easily put in General chat discussing the return policies of open software.

    The people who are asking for a refund from SE, while knowing they are NOT going to get a refund looks split down the middle. Let's see if SE is paying attention.

  • IkedaIkeda Member RarePosts: 2,749

    Ok, Hi all.  I lurk the forum reading all the time.  There have been a FEW discussions I wanted to take part in but this game made me MAD enough that I will reply to this one.  I have been playing MMO's since '93.  MUDs and pay per minute/hour for the net.  But this game was the first where I was absolutely disgusted because I feel the SE should KNOW better.

    Having said that, to stay on topic, PC Gamer (years ago) did a test on video games to return opened video games.  FOR EXAMPLE, if you read an EULA and disagree you should have the right to return the opened game to the store.  But during their findings they only had 1 or 2 stores allow it to be returned.  REGARDLESS of the fact that the ONLY way to read the EULA (9 times out of 10) is to BUY the package and read the instructions (who reads those anymore anyways).

    Ultimately, the POINT is, I understand WHY the game genre went with their "return opened and for the same ONLY".  If that policy wasn't there I could count the SHEER number of people ripping them off entirely.  But had I a physical copy of this disk I would fight tooth and nail to return it.  As far as I'm concerned, the UI issues ALONE make it unplayable.  What would be the difference if you brought home a BluRay player and it watched your movie in 5 minute chunks before loading a little more.  While it DOES work, kinda, it doesn't fulfill REASONABLE expectations.  (mind you I have other problems but the UI is the worst, I think it'll be great with the PS3 release but for keyboard/mouse people, notsomuch.)

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by ianicus

    I think the whole "you used the registration key so tuff shit" argument is bull. If Square were decent enought o offer a refund to a player who say played the game for 48 hours and was SO repulsed he demanded a refund, they could easily issue said refund and wipe said account and tregistration number from thier system which would prevent and resubbing, simply solution. Games should be like any other consumer product, give me something that works or expect to be reimbursing me for it.

    You are speaking to the choir, my friend. I'm so happy there is someone else out there who feels this way.

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by Ikeda

    Ok, Hi all.  I lurk the forum reading all the time.  There have been a FEW discussions I wanted to take part in but this game made me MAD enough that I will reply to this one.  I have been playing MMO's since '93.  MUDs and pay per minute/hour for the net.  But this game was the first where I was absolutely disgusted because I feel the SE should KNOW better.

    Having said that, to stay on topic, PC Gamer (years ago) did a test on video games to return opened video games.  FOR EXAMPLE, if you read an EULA and disagree you should have the right to return the opened game to the store.  But during their findings they only had 1 or 2 stores allow it to be returned.  REGARDLESS of the fact that the ONLY way to read the EULA (9 times out of 10) is to BUY the package and read the instructions (who reads those anymore anyways).

    Ultimately, the POINT is, I understand WHY the game genre went with their "return opened and for the same ONLY".  If that policy wasn't there I could count the SHEER number of people ripping them off entirely.  But had I a physical copy of this disk I would fight tooth and nail to return it.  As far as I'm concerned, the UI issues ALONE make it unplayable.  What would be the difference if you brought home a BluRay player and it watched your movie in 5 minute chunks before loading a little more.  While it DOES work, kinda, it doesn't fulfill REASONABLE expectations.  (mind you I have other problems but the UI is the worst, I think it'll be great with the PS3 release but for keyboard/mouse people, notsomuch.)

    Agreed. I DO find this game unplayable. It's not PC quality in my opinion. It's being marketed as a AAA MMO, and it's not.

  • DrGreenbacksDrGreenbacks Member Posts: 214

    Originally posted by NyQuil81

    Informed consumers research their purchases before making them.  Not just games, but cars, houses, stocks, whatever.  When you blindly make a purchase, you're pretty much accepting to take whatever they give you.  It's just an unfortunate condition of the times that people too often can get reimbursed for making stupid decisions.  There is no more personal responsibility or accountability.  You weren't smart with your money?  It wasn't your fault, oh no, it was the company for screwing you.

    It's just a tired mentality to me.  There is almost TOO much information online about FFXIV that any consumer could have accessed before making the purchase.  All i'm saying, is be a bit more proactive in your financial decisions.  If I recall correctly, you made a post about your fighting for refunds on APB, as well.  Seems like blind purchases might be the norm for you, and you're causing yourself alot of undue stress.

    Did you ever read my post about the Gamer's Bill of Rights? Just curious.

  • elockeelocke Member UncommonPosts: 4,335

    I forgot to mention, keeping the game and not getting a refund allows me to log in within a year or after at any time to see if it has improved. Some games have blown me away by how they changed since launch. Games like LOTRO and AoC.

    Although I do see FFXIV's launch not offering even a modicum of what those 2 games offered at release and can understand the vitriol toward Square. It's a tough situation to be sure and one where our wallets and internet opinions need to speak volumes to Square.

    Don't resub and be fair and honest with your reviews. If it makes a dent in their budget numbers in a month or so, they would be stupid to not change their ways. HOPEFULLY someone at Square will make some drastic moves to get the company back to the way it was PRE - FF12.

  • danJ188danJ188 Member Posts: 56

    Originally posted by DrGreenbacks

    Originally posted by Ikeda

    Ok, Hi all.  I lurk the forum reading all the time.  There have been a FEW discussions I wanted to take part in but this game made me MAD enough that I will reply to this one.  I have been playing MMO's since '93.  MUDs and pay per minute/hour for the net.  But this game was the first where I was absolutely disgusted because I feel the SE should KNOW better.

    Having said that, to stay on topic, PC Gamer (years ago) did a test on video games to return opened video games.  FOR EXAMPLE, if you read an EULA and disagree you should have the right to return the opened game to the store.  But during their findings they only had 1 or 2 stores allow it to be returned.  REGARDLESS of the fact that the ONLY way to read the EULA (9 times out of 10) is to BUY the package and read the instructions (who reads those anymore anyways).

    Ultimately, the POINT is, I understand WHY the game genre went with their "return opened and for the same ONLY".  If that policy wasn't there I could count the SHEER number of people ripping them off entirely.  But had I a physical copy of this disk I would fight tooth and nail to return it.  As far as I'm concerned, the UI issues ALONE make it unplayable.  What would be the difference if you brought home a BluRay player and it watched your movie in 5 minute chunks before loading a little more.  While it DOES work, kinda, it doesn't fulfill REASONABLE expectations.  (mind you I have other problems but the UI is the worst, I think it'll be great with the PS3 release but for keyboard/mouse people, notsomuch.)

    Agreed. I DO find this game unplayable. It's not PC quality in my opinion. It's being marketed as a AAA MMO, and it's not.

    If you're to listen to SE, you have to basically stop playing for the next 3-4 months while they Patch the game over and over to make it appealing. I do not think a MMO should be released with little NO content, and then expect people to pay the initial price, and then a monthly fee afterwards for content that is NOT there. That first 50 dollers(for most mmo's) plus the standard og 15 bucks(FF14 is lower, but they make you buy character slots and such, regardless.) plus the other months of pay should have a unwritten courtesy of there being atleast 6-12 months worth of content UNLESS you're specifically aiming for content patches after a 3-4 month period(ala WoW with content patches, then expansions roughly every year, and alot of other games.)

     

    SE simply does not care about your input. They did not care during the beta, they still do not care. They are the ones with the vision. And you are going to buy that vision. There is to be no deviation from the alloted plan. That is their mentality now, and sadly it is so narrow and limited, it really makes sense with FF13(Incredibly linear gameplay, very dull and boring-but pretty!)

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