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For people who love but are bored with MMO's

ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Member UncommonPosts: 2,255

I think the cure is MMO's with a stinging death penalty.  A little risk and fear gets the ol' adrenalin pumping.

Comments

  • FreeBooteRFreeBooteR Member Posts: 333

    I got a little nostalgic in another thread about the original EQ1 and it's tough unforgiving dungeons with no corpse summoning and then it all started coming back to me again later. The nasty raids where death occured multiple times and the experience penalty causing me to delevel a whole level. The grind in EQ was quite nasty at the time and i distinctly remember practically foaming at the mouth shouting obscenities and punching my CRT monitor. (can't get away with that nowadays, dang flatscreens).

    I don't think i could last in another game like that these days, not as young as i used to be and don't want to get an aneurysm, lol! Yeah the threat gave you a sense of dread when going through a raid, but i don't think the pain is worth it. I'm pretty sure i prefer engaging innovative and clever gameplay over ball-peen hammer to the back of the skull gameplay of yester-yore.

    Archlinux ftw

  • VyntVynt Member UncommonPosts: 756

    I remember playing EQ in the early days and never found it that bad. Sure there were hell levels, and a couple times I deleveled, but usually got it back with a rez which wasn't too difficult to get. I even died out in the middle of nowhere and really wanted to get the exp back, did a search, gave a few tells and paid a cleric to come rez me, heh.

     

    Corpse run was kind of intense sometimes, hoping you would get to your corpse and back before invis ran out, lol. Sometimes I would just log on a rogue or ask one to help me get my corpse if I needed it. I remember on my ranger in lguk trying to get to my corpse before my super camo ran out. Made sure had sow on beforehand too, hehe. If camo dropped, usually made it to safety.

     

    The death penalty did make me and a lot of people a little more careful because the exp loss was a minor annoyance, but if you were reckless and died multiple times, it could be devastating, but then again, not too bad with rezzes.

    People always mention the waste of time people get when they die these days, but you always had that and people just don't seem to care if they waste time if they can get the kill rushing passed 20 mobs to kill a target. If they fail, no big deal, try again, might get it. The risk wasn't significant compared to the reward. Factor in losing exp over and over though, person might think twice and take it slow or get some help. I think a lot of MMOs are missing that and it just seems to lesson the gameplay, make it a little bit more shallow.

     

    Of course EQ these days is a lot more forgiving, but I find it still fun, so perhaps it is not just the death penalty that games are lacking these days to make it so immersive.

  • jpnolejpnole Member UncommonPosts: 1,696

    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    I think the cure is MMO's with a stinging death penalty.  A little risk and fear gets the ol' adrenalin pumping.

    This actually just ends up pissing me off and then I ragequit. Honestly let's just keep the death penalties where they are... a short term debuff.

  • BayonetReconBayonetRecon Member UncommonPosts: 128

    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    I think the cure is MMO's with a stinging death penalty.  A little risk and fear gets the ol' adrenalin pumping.

    Asheron's Call was memorable in that when you died, you lost your gear and had to get back to your corpse before it disappeared.  You always had spare sets of gear (or should).  So the risk was, how far do you go and if you died, would you be able to make it back to your corpse with the backup gear?  You learned to treat fellow players with respect cause you just might need their help in retrieving your stuff.  Not to say there weren't assholes and such who wouldn't help, but often there were people willing to help cause they knew they could end up needing yours.

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member Posts: 4,990

    I think it is silly when a game reaches  a point where dying becomes so frivolous that people will suicide themselves as a form of fast travel because it is quicker and more efficient to do this than simply running or riding a mount to points throught the world.  On the other hand, I don't really want the penalty of the likes of EQ where days of experience gain could be wiped out and god help you if you were not able to find your corpse. I prefer a happy medium where death still has a sting to it and makes one contemplate and strategize their actions but doesn't make one ask themselves, "Wtf, I may as well not even played the last couple days since my character just lost everything he gained or great I deleveled."

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • VirusDancerVirusDancer Member UncommonPosts: 3,649

    Just because nothing that you do matters in a game, does not mean that in trying to add some form of meaning that one should start with character death...

    ...that would just leave you with having a costly death in a meaningless game.

    I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

    Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,145

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Just because nothing that you do matters in a game, does not mean that in trying to add some form of meaning that one should start with character death...

    ...that would just leave you with having a costly death in a meaningless game.

    Heh. Good point.

  • thecrapthecrap Member Posts: 433

    Diablo 2 ?

  • FearGXFearGX Member Posts: 317

    There was a WoW player who followed this code of Perm death. He spent 2 years + on the challenge of leveling to max level without dieing once. He got close in TBC where he leveled to 67 and died from an overpull. Anyways when he died he would delete his character and start again. He went threw about 13 characters until finally in WOTLK he leveled to 80 without a single death (Was in his armory until he done an instance and died).

     

    I'd find the article, but I forget his name. Someone here is bound to known who I mean.

  • KenFisherKenFisher Member UncommonPosts: 5,035

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Just because nothing that you do matters in a game, does not mean that in trying to add some form of meaning that one should start with character death...

    ...that would just leave you with having a costly death in a meaningless game.

     

    LOL, nicely said.  That would make a cool poster.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  When I don't understand, I ask.  Such is not intended as criticism.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member EpicPosts: 7,145

    Originally posted by Fearlessbro

    There was a WoW player who followed this code of Perm death. He spent 2 years + on the challenge of leveling to max level without dieing once. He got close in TBC where he leveled to 67 and died from an overpull. Anyways when he died he would delete his character and start again. He went threw about 13 characters until finally in WOTLK he leveled to 80 without a single death (Was in his armory until he done an instance and died).

     

    I'd find the article, but I forget his name. Someone here is bound to known who I mean.

    http://wow.joystiq.com/tag/permadeath/

  • ShiymmasShiymmas Member UncommonPosts: 587

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Just because nothing that you do matters in a game, does not mean that in trying to add some form of meaning that one should start with character death...

    ...that would just leave you with having a costly death in a meaningless game.

    Heh. Good point.

    Actually, it really is a good point, but only to a degree...

     

    I think that by adding a costly death penalty, however, you add value to everything else in the game almost automatically.  It all boils down to how easily what's lost is recouperated.  Risk vs. reward becomes a much greater consideration with everything y ou do, from farming to running an instance to how many attempts you're willing to take on that good ol' boss that used to hand out loot like candy.

     

    The only game I've ever played that had a considerable death penalty was FFXI.  Sure it was annoying and frustrating at times, but it definitely made you fear death and made accomplishments carry more meaning.  It kept folks on their toes and made everyone want to perform well in a group.  Games are just more fun when there's something at risk, and it's something that should be part of the genre if you ask me.

    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
    George Bernard Shaw


    “What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.”
    Oscar Wilde

  • SpasticolonSpasticolon Member Posts: 178

    Yes, DIablo 2. Play Normal mode, then play hardcore, and enjoy the difference. You have to pay attention, watch everything, move sensibly, no leeroys, excessive hoarding of pots. It is the ultimate Ironman Challenge.

     

    Cautious, who played WoW to 80 without a death is a prime example of Ironman gaming. Something people tend to do to make a game more challenging. Not usually part of an MMO though. It makes me proud that someone would challenge themselves so, and to dedicate enough time and heartache to follow through. /respect

     

    Id like to see more excessive death penalties in MMO's. While I bitched and raged about staying level 36 in Aion for over a week, I loved it. Having to make sure I stayed alive, and not make stupid decisions or do suicidal things. Penalising stupid and poor play should be part of every game, promoting and encouraging better play, smarter play should be a part of every game. Allowing players to be complacent, and having the bar set to mediocre performance by allowing a negligible death penalty will just continue to breed a generation of gamer that isnt challenged and the path of least resistance becomes the norm.

  • grimmbotgrimmbot Member Posts: 302

    Originally posted by Shiymmas

    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Just because nothing that you do matters in a game, does not mean that in trying to add some form of meaning that one should start with character death...

    ...that would just leave you with having a costly death in a meaningless game.

    Heh. Good point.

    Actually, it really is a good point, but only to a degree...

     

    I think that by adding a costly death penalty, however, you add value to everything else in the game almost automatically.

    The only game I've ever played that had a considerable death penalty was FFXI.  Sure it was annoying and frustrating at times, but it definitely made you fear death and made accomplishments carry more meaning. 

    As a fellow MMO lover bored with MMOs, there's a point missing here, and it's why I don't support harsh penalties:

    In the MMORPG genre, people are results-oriented. Numbers-oriented, not story-oriented.

    So in FFXI, what the harsh penalty did was take FFXI's seemingly great job/subjob mechanic and destroyed it -- people found out the 'best' combinations to avoid the death penalty, then only invited people into groups who fit that predefined mold. People did this in WoW when it started too... if you didn't have a particular path on the Priest spec tree trained, you weren't invited to a group. All of the innovation possible gets thrown out the window.

    When harsh death penalties are into play, the story-oriented parts of us just want to do well.  In the results-oriented MMO world though, we see a harsh penalty as "losing time" towards our main goal of the max level.

    In fact, it's that results-oriented "max level" endgame that makes me and many others not want to bother playing. We can't enjoy the ride to the end like we do in a single player RPG... Level 23 is merely a side street on the path between Level 1 and Level 80. Something not to be enjoyed, but to be endured, and I don't pay per month to "endure" a game for 1-2 months until I get to the "end".

    Thanks to games promoting this results-oriented mindset through design, I find levelling in MMOs to be a horrible chore.

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