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looking for a "true" mmorpg
I have played many mmos and have spent my fair share of time on WoW. I feel it is getting to the point where it is time for something new. I started to think the other day what rpg should mean. To me it means I should be immersed in the character I create and I dont get that from any game I have played. I am not saying that they are not out there just I have not played one.I have been thinking of the traditional classes from fantasy mmos and I am going to use a thief type as a example. When i think of playing a thief I actually want to be that. To go out into a world and steal from what people have gained. Whether that be from the home they have built in a game or from a store they created. I also want to feel consequences for my actions. Like guards looking for me, paying fines, or even going to jail. Guards do look for you but its just for a brief time. Not till you pay your fines or do your jail time. They do this in single player games, why cant someone bring it to a mmo? Why cant we get the feeling of sneaking past someone as a challenge? Instead of you cant see me in a 15 yard radius because i clicked invisible! I want to have the feeling of having to steal to survive not I play this class to get certain abilities. Maybe even a chance to become something else. Like joining a mighty clan of knights after years of playing and giving up the thief life. Not just making a new character because i got bored with a class. Maybe there is a game out there that does this on a mmo scale and if there is post a link.
Comments
The reason why I'm replying is because of your example (it got stuck in my mind). I don't think that people would enjoy a game where their things can get stolen in, unless they use the system for their advantage of course, but do you want to play a game where everyone likes to steal?
Another thing. Why do you want to steal from other players? I find that disgusting atm. so I would like an explanation. From my experience, getting stolen from feels just as bad in games as it does in real life, so if there is any empathy in you, you wouldn't like making people feel that way. If your response to this was going to be "It's just a game" have you ever played with toys and then had someone come and try to steal the toys from you? It's not fun.
"they do this in single player games" That's because it's a moral decision to steal from other players, but not when you steal from NPCs.
Sorry for not answering your question..
The closest thing you have to this was the original UO. Had everything your looking for.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
The only MMO I know where you can actually "steal" from other players is MO, but I'd advice against MO since that game sucks balls on all other parts...
Right now I'm playing a troubadour in EQ2, and there I do have a pickpocket skill as well. This can be used on humanoid enemies as the skill tells me, so I'm using it on monsters in PvE a lot. I'm not sure if you can use this still in PvP (I'm on a PvE server because I dislike -hate- Faction based PvP ganking systems).
I guess in my mind if I was playing a game where that could happen i would take more pride in my things. Like if crafting was a mini game and you had to be good at it to make your own weapons more powerful. I would take the time to lock my things away or find a way to protect them. I also said I want to feel like there is a re-precaution for my actions. There would be more to the game then just thieves though. Like if you played a knight part of your goals would be to protect the people from thieves and assassins. I didn't mean to come off like i just wanted to take stuff from people.
Yup. Ahh, those were the good ol' days. I was a thief in a Thieves Guild back in Ultima Online. We stole everything from house deeds to gold to reagents. If you were foolish enough to carry valuables on your person...it was ours for the taking! Hehe.
It was a blast, until they nerfed it all to hell. I (along with my fellow thief guildies) were some of the richest people on the server. We made a name for ourselves in those days. Oh the memories...
In my opinion, having a "role-playing" interactive game to go by would be great, you can have the feeling of being that character in which you created to make your "own" granit it's just considered a game. Although; having characters that can steal, or whichever would be in that specific piece, having consequences would be a basic response to actions.
Fantastic! maybe not so much stealing, but to back up and look at any game, play for a while and get bored with it just as quick as when you first bought it. I'm not saying read the back look at the price and believe it's a great game to have, but there is no feel behind it, ok you make a character...you steal (thief based, keep in mind) chased for so many seconds after which took place..fine and dandy..no aggro range and leash permitted...blah blah blah.
Furthermost; having an interactive game that keeps you interested in it, such as Diablo or any other MMO, you've had things taken from you when you die..that pissed me off...but still kept me playing because it had that in which I was interested in, and made it so there was more to hold on to that I worked so hard to get (responsibility) to hold onto my things and NOT die, but if you did..fair game.. there should be some kind of fascination to keep you playing! more umph if you will.
agreeable or not, it's what I like about games!
From what I've read Darkfall would fit your bill. As for more info about the game, my PC is craptastic so I haven't gotten a chance to play it but I've heard it's about as RPG as you can get MMOwise.
I actually like the concept of stealing. hehehe. (always been facinated with the thief class) Especially if you can go stealing undetected, of course there should be consequences if your caught. Haven't tried any mmos with this feature. UO sounds great. too bad never had tried it. aside from that game, are there any other current mmos similar to what the OP is looking for?
Err can you actually steal in Darkfall? It's one thing to go sneaky/invisible on some player and steal some of their loot unnoticed, and totally another thing to charge him with a 2handed axe, beat the hell out of him and loot the corpse.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
lol'd a reply. Never tried Darkfall but if that is the case, then that is not really stealing.
LoL
The only mmo i know for sure allowed you to literally steal valuable items from players backpacks was UO.. Darkfall and MO are also skill based games and I think it's possible to steal items from PC's just like in UO, but don't quote me on this..
Now, many mmo's have rogue classes that can technically steal from monsters, but you never get anything good.. It's just there for class flavoring, that's all.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I think that the reason we see role play elements like thievery and punishment in single player RPGs is because the results, while somewhat novel versus other genres, plays out in a way that the gamer expects. TES has added the 'crime and punishment' aspect, and I think it added another dimension to the game, and that was a very positive thing.
The question remains, as the OP and subsequent posters have alluded to:
Would such role play elements ever see the light of day in an MMO, and why haven't they so far?
I think that the problem with things like PvP stealing, pickpocketing and such is that the experience is too unexpected. In TES, you go to jail, work it off, or pay bail. It's pretty straight forward. And you get all your stuff back when you get out, minus some stat penalties. But in an open world like Darkfall, players could lose money and stuff and never notice until they went to use it. Single player RPGs are intended for a person to play versus the developers AI and storyline, based on the player's choices and actions. MMOs are a different story because that player interaction changes the entire layout of the game. WoW would suck if there were no other players in the world but you. It would be like 'I Am Legend' in a fantasy setting. It would get old.
Things like stealing, ganking, and open-world PvP are tough to implement properly. Few games achieve a level of respect for a positive PvP experience. Even solo players like the PvP in DAoC, which is a really big deal.
I think those single player RPG elements would not carry well in to the MMO world simply because the system's reaction to PvP stealing for example, would have to be very predictable, basically defeating the whole purpose of PvP to begin with.
insanex
Other than UO, Mortal Online is the closest thing I'm aware of that really fits what the OP is looking for. It has thievery in the game (Darkfall doesn't) that allows you to steal from the backpacks of other players.
Keep in mind, MO is still a new game, and has its problems - it's got bugs, and it's still pretty much at a core level as far as content is concerned. It is, however, also getting better over time, and is nowhere near as bad as some of the more rabid critics try to paint it (it's amusing how obsessive some people can get about MMOs, especially about MMOs they don't even play).
Mortal Online should be releasing a new build within the next week or two that should make some meaningful improvements to the game. If the OP is interested, I would suggest reading up on the game while waiting for the new build to be deployed, and evaluate it then.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Leveraging stealing as an example, I think the reason that some of the more immersive elements of MMOs don't exist anymore is due to the impact of others. Many players are not particularly interested in having their stuff stolen (being on the receiving end)...and, overall, I think the majority of players don't really want it to be so immersive that if they get distracted (RL person, TV, phone call, etc) that something really bad happens in what would otherwise be a safe zone (e.g. city). As for putting things away in your house or a bank, people tend to be unhappy that they have to run back to sell or deposit goods already (bag space limitations)...they would be even more unhappy to run back even more often because you don't want to be caught having items on you.
True that.
That's exactly the same reason that if you make a CC heavy class and your game is PvE it will all be fine. But if it's PvP or it has some PvP part anyway, everybody will bitch about it. The very basic idea of all these games, not only RPGs but Action/FPS games as well, is that you control a character. The very first thing you learn when you are a newbie is how can you move your character with WASD keys and the second is how to jump usually. Figuratively, one could say that for a gamer controlling his character is the same thing as freedom of speech is for a liberal. (Just search the forums here to see the bitching developers got for even trying to make movement some way other than what players wanted, ie click-to-move, or for other cases about games without jumping...). When we are talking PvP, crowd control goes completely against this basic principle - the other player denies you the "right" of controlling your character.
And it's the same case with thieving. Some other player decided to remove money from you and you have absolutely no control over it...
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
http://www.hazeron.com/
Steal another players cargo... starship...empire
"I am not in a server with Gankers...THEY ARE IN A SERVER WITH ME!!!"
I think this goes back to old-as-the-hills (in MMO years) debate of PvE vs. PvP. PvP-ers will argue to till the cows come home how PvE is for players who are too weak to play PvP. Abilities like PvP pickpocketing would integrate well into PvP-centric MMOs like WAR.
Many PvE-ers are either more casual or simply lean toward the fun of discovering new places, gaining more powerful abilities, etc., to use against mobs. PvP thievery would severely disrupt the fun for PvE-style players.
It would be interesting to see someone try to implement these elements in an MMO. I'd like to see my theory disproved.
insanex
You sounds like you could be a roleplayer? Check this out: http://www.mmorp.org to find some roleplays who like to feel immersed in games . .. some keep blogs like this: http://www.signusmelko.blogspot.com/
Closest thing that you are looking for would be UO or MO since they have pickpocketing but I actually think that you would probably have a lot more fun in Darkfall since it is the best of that type of game out there right now and has enough stuff to do that would keep a person busy for years (as long as you can handle the possible grief and gameplay). Huge expansion coming next Tuesday for PVE revamp, new dungeons, graphics, environmental sounds, etc. . .. they were going to originally have pick pocketing and thieves guilds but have not added anything like that yet or mentioned adding it so who knows if they ever will but it is the funnest game out there where you can kill people and take their stuff. Some have found other more evil ways to scam people . .. http://www.scarybadguys.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61 (what a douch! lol) but most are pretty decent for the most part. I like that the average person who plays the game is around my age (30).
The Darkfall DEVs have talked about working on implementing tools for players to post bounties for other players to pick up so that sounds pretty epic . ... I've always wanted to be an assassin!
Anyways, its the best PVP out there right now with naval combat, mounted combat, and siege warfare between player holdings. FFA PVP and if you die than you drop everything that you are carrying so there is a lot of sneaking around and stealth works just like it does in real life (one of my favorite things to do is to sneak into a player city and find some victims or steal resources like from their mine, etc.). The PVE is my favorite as well because the monsters feel a lot more realistic to fight than in other MMOs.
Check it out! http://www.playdarkfall.com
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