There will be people that like STO, there are people into everything but statistically speaking, the chances are the average person will not like this game. I base that on the low sub numbers (in the bottom 10% according to MMOdata.com) and the universally poor reviews.
Maybe it would be a better approach if you guys listed the things you like about the game and put a disclaimer in to warn people of portions you feel are not up to par? Something like, if you like PvE ship combat its very fun for me but dont expect much from the crafting or Klingon faction. I think a lot of the trolling/attacking is based on both sides only focusing on their view and not being honest about the entire content. If the fans conceeded that the game has some serious issues and the haters conceeded that some parts were ok, the world of forums would be a more useful place.
The game does have some fun content, I really enjoyed some of the episodes but it didnt have anything else to hold me.
allthough i myself have suggested this, it just doesnt work. the only thing most people agree is decent about sto is the graphics, and that space combat is not bad for a while.
but there really is not much positive to say about the game tbh. crafting/exploration/ground combat/content/klingon faction/sector space are all in need of major overhauls or work. this is essentially the entire game, without even getting into the c-store issues.
its why my sig is what it is, because people who come here and try to defend sto inevitably ending up hurling insults rather than making a reasonable argument. they just dont have anything to argue about. (if you disagree with this i suggest you read the recent posts from dstahl and jack "doesnt get it" emmeret about the quality of the game and where the company is headed with neverwinter)
about the only argument you actually can make for the game that can not be seriously refuted is "i enjoy the game". this would be a very very valid selling point if it was shared by a large amount of people, but it just is not (taking into account the size of the market it is aimed at).
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
There will be people that like STO, there are people into everything but statistically speaking, the chances are the average person will not like this game. I base that on the low sub numbers (in the bottom 10% according to MMOdata.com) and the universally poor reviews.
Maybe it would be a better approach if you guys listed the things you like about the game and put a disclaimer in to warn people of portions you feel are not up to par? Something like, if you like PvE ship combat its very fun for me but dont expect much from the crafting or Klingon faction. I think a lot of the trolling/attacking is based on both sides only focusing on their view and not being honest about the entire content. If the fans conceeded that the game has some serious issues and the haters conceeded that some parts were ok, the world of forums would be a more useful place.
The game does have some fun content, I really enjoyed some of the episodes but it didnt have anything else to hold me.
A person shouldn't care if statistically speaking the chances are the average person will not like this game. Then it comes into question am I the average person? If you need your hand held in making a decision into trying a game because reviews are bad, forums are bad, or low population then you are missing quite a lot in my opinion. This does not only apply to STO, but to any game.
I disagree that it would be a better approach to list what I like about the game or to warn about certain things. Am I discouraging anyone from posting their opinion? Absolutely not. My argument is you shouldn't view that opinion as something that keeps you from trying the game or any game. No matter if it is positive or negative. Anything I list as a postive in STO or any game can easily be countered by someone else. What I find fun about the game someone out there will not. The only way to find out if the game is fun is to try it. Yes the trial is limited I know this. Use your own judgement if you try the trial and like it and decide to purchase.
Every game on these forums has issues some more than others. That shouldn't keep you from trying the game if you are interested, or any game.
If you like space combat, STO is a very "fun" game. If you also like ground based combat, that might be another story. If STO worth trying? Yes. Based upon recent updates and content added, there is far more to do in game then there was 3 to 6 months ago. Let's put it this way, if you haven't tried it yet do so. If you only played at launch, try it again.
There will be people that like STO, there are people into everything but statistically speaking, the chances are the average person will not like this game. I base that on the low sub numbers (in the bottom 10% according to MMOdata.com) and the universally poor reviews.
Maybe it would be a better approach if you guys listed the things you like about the game and put a disclaimer in to warn people of portions you feel are not up to par? Something like, if you like PvE ship combat its very fun for me but dont expect much from the crafting or Klingon faction. I think a lot of the trolling/attacking is based on both sides only focusing on their view and not being honest about the entire content. If the fans conceeded that the game has some serious issues and the haters conceeded that some parts were ok, the world of forums would be a more useful place.
The game does have some fun content, I really enjoyed some of the episodes but it didnt have anything else to hold me.
allthough i myself have suggested this, it just doesnt work. the only thing most people agree is decent about sto is the graphics, and that space combat is not bad for a while.
but there really is not much positive to say about the game tbh. crafting/exploration/ground combat/content/klingon faction/sector space are all in need of major overhauls or work. this is essentially the entire game, without even getting into the c-store issues.
its why my sig is what it is, because people who come here and try to defend sto inevitably ending up hurling insults rather than making a reasonable argument. they just dont have anything to argue about. (if you disagree with this i suggest you read the recent posts from dstahl and jack "doesnt get it" emmeret about the quality of the game and where the company is headed with neverwinter)
about the only argument you actually can make for the game that can not be seriously refuted is "i enjoy the game". this would be a very very valid selling point if it was shared by a large amount of people, but it just is not (taking into account the size of the market it is aimed at).
Actually, I can see both sides doing their own share of insults. The argument of "I enjoying the game" is the only argument needed. As far as I know most people play games to have fun. If there are people playing STO who like it, then there could be other people with similar likes/dislikes that "surprisingly" like the game. As far as the "statistical" number, again Wow is about 20-40 times populated than the other p2p mmos. I could argue that Eve is just boring stars and trying to back it up by saying than wow is about 30 time more populated so statistically most people consider wow a superior game over Eve, which is not even worth to try.
You might be surprised by the OP claim but it is not done to convice you or the other people who made their decision based on their experiece, is to encourage people who has not try it to get their own conclusions, could you argue against somebody taking advantage of a free weekend or trial, or if the person has some bucks to throw then just buy the game? I don't find any harm on that.
You might be surprised by the OP claim but it is not done to convice you or the other people who made their decision based on their experiece, is to encourage people who has not try it to get their own conclusions, could you argue against somebody taking advantage of a free weekend or trial, or if the person has some bucks to throw then just buy the game? I don't find any harm on that.
i understand this, and i agree with you. people should come to their own conclusions, part of doing that is using these forums to find out what to expect, or just decide wether it is even worth the time to install a game and play it for a couple of days.
ill give you an example from my own experience:
i have been following MO off and on for a few months due to hearing it had some creative new ideas for gameplay and crafting. (both of which are true from what i have read). after doing a bit of reading about the game on these forums, i had second thoughts due to an overwhelmingly bad amount of posts about the game. yesterday after doing some more reading, i found a link to a post by a dev from the game where the dev openly admits the game is not polished is not going to be so for a very long time (its essentially a piad alpha/early beta)
am i interested in playing this game still.... no, not for at least a couple of years now. this is because i know what to expect. a half finished game is not worth the time to download and then play for a few days to figure out what i could discover by doing a few minutes of reading. is there people who say "i enjoy this game" when it comes to mo... yes. this doesnt change the fact that the game is bug ridden and incomplete... and me personally, im totally not interested in paying 15$ a month for a beta.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
You should always try any game and make your own mind up despite reviews and especially what people say on forums, a very good personal example is EVE as many good friends from other games told me how bad it was and how it was "point and click excel in space" and other stuff and this was from people I knew and whose opinions I trusted and respected not just random people on forums.
I avoided the game for around two years until I finally decided I had to see for myself and I instantly fell in love with it, and while many of you will no doubt repost your opinions about STOs shortcomings I cannot see them as problems specific to STO as they are problems in MMOs in general.
Every MMO is repetitive and can be boring with an endless progression of quest after quest, can you honestly say that any are not? how is the game play in say WoW any different at a high level as when you first start out? you may have some extra abilities or better equipment and more HP or need a gang of people to deal enough damage or to heal each other but that's it, one scripted NPC AI is the same as another and while the immediate location might look different they share the same basic functioning of game mechanics as every other location.
Worse is the fact that not only MMOs repetitive internally they are repetitive across games as almost every release shares the same basic design concept, WoW is like Everquest, Age of Conan is like Warhammer online and so on.
I recently started playing STO casually as just an extra game to play, I like Star Trek and sometimes I do not have time for a four hour long EVE op or don't feel like going on a long roam and STO is perfect as a SF game I can pick and play for an hour and I am enjoying it in contrary to all of the negativity people direct towards it and I think many people expected to much from it like a huge free roaming world where you can beam down to every planet and then explore a huge free roaming landscape on that planet as well as wanting loads of diplomacy and themes from the show.
How they ever expected things like that I have no idea, no game ever has ever really manged to present non combat objectives in a game in any other way than talking to NPCs and selecting the appropriate dialogue responses or solving a puzzle.
So yes STO has its faults but many people expect far to much for any game to be able to achieve and be an interesting and exciting game.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
1. Worse is the fact that not only MMOs repetitive internally they are repetitive across games as almost every release shares the same basic design concept, WoW is like Everquest, Age of Conan is like Warhammer online and so on.
2. How they ever expected things like that I have no idea, no game ever has ever really manged to present non combat objectives in a game in any other way than talking to NPCs and selecting the appropriate dialogue responses or solving a puzzle.
3. So yes STO has its faults but many people expect far to much for any game to be able to achieve and be an interesting and exciting game.
I numbered your points for easier reference to my responses:
1. For the first issue: Yes, all MMOs have a repetitiveness to them. However most aren't as blatantly obvious about it, or as noticeable as early on, as Cryptic games.
2. For the second issue: It's not so much that they were expecting vastly different and innovative mechanics for diplomacy, though there are better ways of approaching it (i.e. multiple dialog choices that allow for different outcomes, such as SW:TOR is said to be doing), but rather people were wanting a greater number of missions for the Federation to be based on diplomacy (or exploration) instead of combat. I don't think that's asking for too much.
3. The problem is that Cryptic set many of those expectations themselves; the game at launch was definately not how they were advertising it to be, even up to launch and slightly afterwards. A good example fo this is that they game was billed as a AAA MMO, but is obviously only really suited towards casual play. That is why most of those who enjoy it seem to be casual players, with many falling into the ultra-casual category.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Actually, I can see both sides doing their own share of insults. The argument of "I enjoying the game" is the only argument needed. As far as I know most people play games to have fun. If there are people playing STO who like it, then there could be other people with similar likes/dislikes that "surprisingly" like the game. As far as the "statistical" number, again Wow is about 20-40 times populated than the other p2p mmos. I could argue that Eve is just boring stars and trying to back it up by saying than wow is about 30 time more populated so statistically most people consider wow a superior game over Eve, which is not even worth to try.
You might be surprised by the OP claim but it is not done to convice you or the other people who made their decision based on their experiece, is to encourage people who has not try it to get their own conclusions, could you argue against somebody taking advantage of a free weekend or trial, or if the person has some bucks to throw then just buy the game? I don't find any harm on that.
I agree with this 100%. You can go round and round on what parts you find fun in a game and someone else will find an argument why that is not fun. Stating I enjoy the game because I find it fun is in my opinion enough.
Everyone is going to have a different idea of what's good for the game. I have to tell you that some of the things that people are saying break immersion kinda stun me.
There's a topic on the forums right now that is many pages long about how the devs to chose to say "left" and "right" ratrher than "port" and "starboard". There's another that talks about how one of your officers says "the ship is under attack" when in fact you attacked first.
Then, of course, you have those who complain that it feels like an SP game, then in the next breath they complain about what other players want!
Actually, that debate about port and starboard has been going on since beta (and probably before that). There are some people who wanted (and still want) STO to be a Star Trek Sims game. As for the "the ship is under attack" comment, when you start the fight (as always)? While it is a bit of a "Wait, what?" moment, anyone who finds that to be immersion breaking with all the other things that are more so are being a bit silly in my opinion.
As for the last point, I guess it depends on the conversation in question: There are many instances where the two statements are not mutually exclusive.
You know what I thought about as far as the breaking of immersion especially as it applies to the text, I don't make it a point to complain about folks breaking the ip but what did bother me about STO as far as this subject was the fact that it was just so often. Yes the port/starboard thing bothered me too even more so when you consider whether you know it or not this consequensless game is the perfect place to learn it but take that in conjuction with the rest of the lifeless quest text and eronious reporting and it all adds up.
Again I'm not defending the practice of immersion whining but in STO's case I can see alot more cause for it than in other games I've heard these kind of complaints in.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
This is pretty much how I feel about it. This says a lot since I've watched every episode of every ST show there ever was including the old cartoon show. I also have read several books and own 2 out of 3 star trek pinball machines.
I can't think of a better insult to cryptic then to deny them a true fans money.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
You know what I thought about as far as the breaking of immersion especially as it applies to the text, I don't make it a point to complain about folks breaking the ip but what did bother me about STO as far as this subject was the fact that it was just so often. Yes the port/starboard thing bothered me too even more so when you consider whether you know it or not this consequensless game is the perfect place to learn it but take that in conjuction with the rest of the lifeless quest text and eronious reporting and it all adds up.
Again I'm not defending the practice of immersion whining but in STO's case I can see alot more cause for it than in other games I've heard these kind of complaints in.
Oh there definately is cuase to complain about it; STO has many elements that feel like they just slapped a Star Trek skin on it and called it a day. Sure there a Star Trek references scattered around, but they seemed to be tossed in there randomly. With so many features that were half-assed in the game at launch, and many that still are today, I just find it a bit strange that the "we're under attack" NPC bit is the thing that breaks some people's immersion; in my mind, there are far too many more glaring immersion breakers in STO.
As to the port/starboard thing? If I remember correctly, the excuse the STO devs gave for not using that was the same as the reason they gave for not having full 3D movement; the alpha testers had difficulties with it.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I came to believe that when Cryptic says that the Alpha testors had trouble or that something just can't be done is usually just an excuse for not wanting to do it. I have yet to see someone who Alpha tested the game say they did not want 360 turns/loops or that they got motion sickness without all those rocks in every system or the game does not need ingame voice chat..
You should always try any game and make your own mind up despite reviews and especially what people say on forums, a very good personal example is EVE as many good friends from other games told me how bad it was and how it was "point and click excel in space" and other stuff and this was from people I knew and whose opinions I trusted and respected not just random people on forums.
A very good rule of thumb to follow.: do your own research and make up your own mind. Many movies that critics call masterpieces are in IMO piles of shit. And vice versa.Same goes with games.
I avoided the game for around two years until I finally decided I had to see for myself and I instantly fell in love with it, and while many of you will no doubt repost your opinions about STOs shortcomings I cannot see them as problems specific to STO as they are problems in MMOs in general.
Every MMO is repetitive and can be boring with an endless progression of quest after quest, can you honestly say that any are not? how is the game play in say WoW any different at a high level as when you first start out? you may have some extra abilities or better equipment and more HP or need a gang of people to deal enough damage or to heal each other but that's it, one scripted NPC AI is the same as another and while the immediate location might look different they share the same basic functioning of game mechanics as every other location.
While most MMOs are repetitive at some point, you at least hope that it doesn't get boring. World of Warcraft and others find a way to make it just different or interesting enough to continue. STO gets boring before the 10th level.
I recently started playing STO casually as just an extra game to play, I like Star Trek and sometimes I do not have time for a four hour long EVE op or don't feel like going on a long roam and STO is perfect as a SF game I can pick and play for an hour and I am enjoying it in contrary to all of the negativity people direct towards it and I think many people expected to much from it like a huge free roaming world where you can beam down to every planet and then explore a huge free roaming landscape on that planet as well as wanting loads of diplomacy and themes from the show.
And what's wrong with that? If you're going to base a game off a popular IP like Star Trek then you should give it what fans expect. Fighting is fun, but there should be more to a MMO than that. If this was a FPS then okay (Elite Force did it better). But an MMO has higher expectations than that.
How they ever expected things like that I have no idea, no game ever has ever really manged to present non combat objectives in a game in any other way than talking to NPCs and selecting the appropriate dialogue responses or solving a puzzle.
Wrong. SWG had it, and I can go outside the MMO genre for other examples. KOTOR had figting but also puzzles you had to solve with lots of interacting and choices. The same model is being expanded upon for their upcoming MMO.And that was Star Wars for goodness sakes.
So yes STO has its faults but many people expect far to much for any game to be able to achieve and be an interesting and exciting game.
More power to you. This is a rare instance where I agree with the critics. Maybe if this game had been released ten years ago it would have been more popular, but players have been there and done that already.The fact that it is selling for 10 dollars after less than a year is sad. I myself stayed as long as I could, but the boring missions along with the worse customer service I have ever seen by a company made me drop this in less than two months.Cryptic has now joined SOE as companies that I will never do business with again.
Well I have to say this. I had canceled my pre-order of STO becasuethe beta was so bad. I said that I would come back in six months and give it a try.
I had a blast doing some of the missions. Like the tribble mission, the guardian of forever. There was some Star Trek lore and I enjoyed it for what it was.
So I been playing the past month on and off. This is what I saw.
(1) Took 3 weeks to get to the top rank of VA Vice Admiral
(2) After you reach vice admiral whats left to do
(A) Roll an alt another type of toon or Klingon
(B) Run dailies to get emblems to buy different things
(3) Social interaction. This is the part of the game that needs tons of help. I found the tools to be hard to use. Such as bringing up the fleet window, looking through a log of events, and the bank log going back only 2 days.
(4) Ground missions, they are still bad. It is like your in a holodeck with walls. Ground mission are the true downfall of this game. You get NPC's stuck your crew stuck and I have had to file several tickets because things get stuck and your quest does not update.
(5) The cryptic store. Ahem. Yes well even I spent a couple of dollars there. I wanted the dreadnought. Oh by the way it is not worth the cash for it, just wait till VA and get a star cruiser you will be much more happier.
I have to rank the game 6/10. The reason is it is fun to play until you run out of things to do. The problem is that happens very quickly and less than a month. I am gong to keep my sub running another month just to see what if anything they do. You have to wonder what they are going to do next. The main problem is the level cap at this point. There is not much you can do, now that you have Vice Admiral, that after Rear Admiral. I guess you could go Ambassador but they already have that rank for diplomatic missions. So your really out of luck with the ranks, and level cap.
The weekly missions were ok and fun but took less than 4 hours each to run.
Well I have to say this. I had canceled my pre-order of STO becasuethe beta was so bad. I said that I would come back in six months and give it a try.
I had a blast doing some of the missions. Like the tribble mission, the guardian of forever. There was some Star Trek lore and I enjoyed it for what it was.
So I been playing the past month on and off. This is what I saw.
(1) Took 3 weeks to get to the top rank of VA Vice Admiral
(2) After you reach vice admiral whats left to do
(A) Roll an alt another type of toon or Klingon
(B) Run dailies to get emblems to buy different things
(3) Social interaction. This is the part of the game that needs tons of help. I found the tools to be hard to use. Such as bringing up the fleet window, looking through a log of events, and the bank log going back only 2 days.
(4) Ground missions, they are still bad. It is like your in a holodeck with walls. Ground mission are the true downfall of this game. You get NPC's stuck your crew stuck and I have had to file several tickets because things get stuck and your quest does not update.
(5) The cryptic store. Ahem. Yes well even I spent a couple of dollars there. I wanted the dreadnought. Oh by the way it is not worth the cash for it, just wait till VA and get a star cruiser you will be much more happier.
I have to rank the game 6/10. The reason is it is fun to play until you run out of things to do. The problem is that happens very quickly and less than a month. I am gong to keep my sub running another month just to see what if anything they do. You have to wonder what they are going to do next. The main problem is the level cap at this point. There is not much you can do, now that you have Vice Admiral, that after Rear Admiral. I guess you could go Ambassador but they already have that rank for diplomatic missions. So your really out of luck with the ranks, and level cap.
The weekly missions were ok and fun but took less than 4 hours each to run.
Ooooooohhhhh , now you did it, prepare to incur the wrath of the CDF. They claim that there is more then a months worth of content and only hardcore players run out of content. It's interesting that 6 months after release it still only takes less then a month to complete the game.
Well I have to say this. I had canceled my pre-order of STO becasuethe beta was so bad. I said that I would come back in six months and give it a try.
I had a blast doing some of the missions. Like the tribble mission, the guardian of forever. There was some Star Trek lore and I enjoyed it for what it was.
So I been playing the past month on and off. This is what I saw.
(1) Took 3 weeks to get to the top rank of VA Vice Admiral
(2) After you reach vice admiral whats left to do
(A) Roll an alt another type of toon or Klingon
(B) Run dailies to get emblems to buy different things
(3) Social interaction. This is the part of the game that needs tons of help. I found the tools to be hard to use. Such as bringing up the fleet window, looking through a log of events, and the bank log going back only 2 days.
(4) Ground missions, they are still bad. It is like your in a holodeck with walls. Ground mission are the true downfall of this game. You get NPC's stuck your crew stuck and I have had to file several tickets because things get stuck and your quest does not update.
(5) The cryptic store. Ahem. Yes well even I spent a couple of dollars there. I wanted the dreadnought. Oh by the way it is not worth the cash for it, just wait till VA and get a star cruiser you will be much more happier.
I have to rank the game 6/10. The reason is it is fun to play until you run out of things to do. The problem is that happens very quickly and less than a month. I am gong to keep my sub running another month just to see what if anything they do. You have to wonder what they are going to do next. The main problem is the level cap at this point. There is not much you can do, now that you have Vice Admiral, that after Rear Admiral. I guess you could go Ambassador but they already have that rank for diplomatic missions. So your really out of luck with the ranks, and level cap.
The weekly missions were ok and fun but took less than 4 hours each to run.
Ooooooohhhhh , now you did it, prepare to incur the wrath of the CDF. They claim that there is more then a months worth of content and only hardcore players run out of content. It's interesting that 6 months after release it still only takes less then a month to complete the game.
Rofl I say. I had not even been playing it full time.I put in 3 or 4 hours a day, then trotted back off to eq2. Some days I did nto play at all. Anybody who takes more than a month to complete the content has to only be playing very limited number of hours per week.
Now there is content left, if you like pvp and or daily mission. And well the breen series was great. You waited each week to do it, then in a matter of hours you were done with that weeks mission.
who knows what they are going to come up with, the main thing is now there kind of very level capped.
This thread came up in the recently posted section. As such I feel compelled to say I will never play this abomination of a Star Trek game. Offer rejected.
Its good that you have fun in sto. Sto is the bigest cash grab I have ever seen in my 10 years of playing online,
I had fun until it became booring repetition, and your right cash grab dont even cover the words I would like to use about it.
Agreed guys. Both of these are my top 2 issues as well.
The boring and repetitious missions. UGH! If I ever do one more "daily" I'll stab myself with a shovel. I'm certain the game has improved since Season 2's release, and truthfully, my sub is still active (year)...but I can't even justify updating the game to myself.
I convinced myself for weeks that the "daily" missions were "fun" and that Cryptic was listening...but they missed deadline after deadline with their "repeatable missions" due to insisting it be tied in to the "sidekicking" feature. Meanwhile, people like me sat there with ONE f'ing mission to do. ONE!!!
The C-Store being their top priority for a full month while I ran the same daily mission will never be forgotten. They had time to create plenty of items for them to sell in the c-store, but they didn't have the time to activate even ONE additional mission for me.
As much as I wanted this to be the game I loved, it became a game that disgusts me. Sloppy, shallow cash grab.
Rofl I say. I had not even been playing it full time.I put in 3 or 4 hours a day, then trotted back off to eq2. Some days I did nto play at all. Anybody who takes more than a month to complete the content has to only be playing very limited number of hours per week.
According the STO faithful, playing 3-4 hours a day makes you one of the 'hardcore' players. To be considered an 'average' player by them (despite the fact that you fall in the lower range of the real MMO average player), you need to only play two hours or less per session.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
So, as an alternative viewpoint to the "Don't play" thread I'm going to take the other viewpoint (and hope some others will join me) to put across why you might want to play STO. I know I do - I'm a Lifetime Subscriber and still enjoying the game!
Please, if you want to say why people shouldn't play the game, go do it over in the other thread.
So, on we go...
It's Star Trek - If you're a Trek fan, you'll find familiar races, familiar ships and audio from your fave Star Trek show here in Star Trek Online. Walk around DS9, hear the whoosh of the turbolift doors on your starship, the blast of phasers and the pulse of photon torpedoes being fired!
It's Two Games in One - A game of two halves. Not only do you have the space combat flying around in your ship but you also get to go on away missions and run around battling foes, or resolving conflict without bloodshed.
Design a Starship - You get to design your own starship/warbird. Choose from a selection of parts, colours and designs. Go with an iconic starship class, or make something new.
Cryptic Customisation - Cryptic games are almost unsuppassed for character customisation (see City of Heroes, Champions Online). Be a previously unknown Alien race and let your creativity flow!
Expanding World - Level cap has already been raised, new missions have been and are being added (as well as entirely new mission types) and we're only six months in
At the end of the day, on this forum there are some of us posting trial keys. Try the game out and see if you like it - if you do buy a boxed copy/digital key and stick around for a bit and see if you like it longterm!
Anyoe else care to add their good points?
I am playing and really enjoying STO , Kudos to you for making this thread , I think it needs something to counter some of negativity about this game.
My Pro's :
The Space combat is a lot of fun and can become extremely addictive.
The Customization for Ships and characters is superb.
The game has really nice community.
There are always alot of people playing and finding groups is very easy.
The Graphics look great especially in space combat ( tho I do concede the ground combat need some TLC )
The game has new Dev's that are actually improving the game.
Great Star Treksound effects .
Some good opportunity for Role Players is being added to the game.
My Con's:
The game admittedly is not for everyone and is quite casual in its approach.
Ground combat still need work although it has improved massivley since launch.
Cryptic really do have appalling customer service, ( tho I do believe they are starting to improve )
Some missions can seem a little repetive , but to fair nearly every Mmo on the market can have repetitive elements.
Game needs more content , especially Klingon stuff and higher level.
No First person Bridge View sucks.
Space Travel should have been implemented better.
Planet Exploration is sadly missing.
C Store is just wrong Imo.
So as you can see I like the game quite alot , tho I'll admit I am a huge Star Trek Fan, but I can also see that it has quite a few bad points too .
..... right I'm off to Upgrade my Phaser banks so I can stand a chance against that Pesky Gorn Battle Cruiser in the Risa Sector !!
Hmm.. how about just NO... personally. this game just isnt star trek, graphically, it may look like startrek, but, for anyone who has even watched a single episode of the program, you'd have a hard time identifying this game from it, and anyone who grew up with star trek and has watched just about every episode of ST:NG, Enterprise, Voyager.. well.. youd just end up crying in your beer..
or to put it another way;
it may look like a Duck, but it doesnt walk like a Duck and it can't Quack..
any aspersions that might indicate it is in fact a LAME DUCK.. are entirely intentional.
The boring and repetitious missions. UGH! If I ever do one more "daily" I'll stab myself with a shovel. I'm certain the game has improved since Season 2's release, and truthfully, my sub is still active (year)...but I can't even justify updating the game to myself.
Agreed, daily quests/missions/whatever are the most boring thing anyone ever invented for a MMO. I would like to meet the guy who got the idea originally and punch him in the face, you really have to look after a worse kind of grind.
As for STO Cryptic needs to patch in a lot more content, they made the game in a short time and like many other MMOs do you run out of things too fast because of that. AoC have the same problem, too little content forcing you to grind when you played through it. And WAR..
MMO devs need to know that a game needs a certain amount of content to keep the players subbing, if you can't make enough you should make a B2P CORPG instead with no monthly fees.
Comments
allthough i myself have suggested this, it just doesnt work. the only thing most people agree is decent about sto is the graphics, and that space combat is not bad for a while.
but there really is not much positive to say about the game tbh. crafting/exploration/ground combat/content/klingon faction/sector space are all in need of major overhauls or work. this is essentially the entire game, without even getting into the c-store issues.
its why my sig is what it is, because people who come here and try to defend sto inevitably ending up hurling insults rather than making a reasonable argument. they just dont have anything to argue about. (if you disagree with this i suggest you read the recent posts from dstahl and jack "doesnt get it" emmeret about the quality of the game and where the company is headed with neverwinter)
about the only argument you actually can make for the game that can not be seriously refuted is "i enjoy the game". this would be a very very valid selling point if it was shared by a large amount of people, but it just is not (taking into account the size of the market it is aimed at).
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
A person shouldn't care if statistically speaking the chances are the average person will not like this game. Then it comes into question am I the average person? If you need your hand held in making a decision into trying a game because reviews are bad, forums are bad, or low population then you are missing quite a lot in my opinion. This does not only apply to STO, but to any game.
I disagree that it would be a better approach to list what I like about the game or to warn about certain things. Am I discouraging anyone from posting their opinion? Absolutely not. My argument is you shouldn't view that opinion as something that keeps you from trying the game or any game. No matter if it is positive or negative. Anything I list as a postive in STO or any game can easily be countered by someone else. What I find fun about the game someone out there will not. The only way to find out if the game is fun is to try it. Yes the trial is limited I know this. Use your own judgement if you try the trial and like it and decide to purchase.
Every game on these forums has issues some more than others. That shouldn't keep you from trying the game if you are interested, or any game.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
If you like space combat, STO is a very "fun" game. If you also like ground based combat, that might be another story. If STO worth trying? Yes. Based upon recent updates and content added, there is far more to do in game then there was 3 to 6 months ago. Let's put it this way, if you haven't tried it yet do so. If you only played at launch, try it again.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Actually, I can see both sides doing their own share of insults. The argument of "I enjoying the game" is the only argument needed. As far as I know most people play games to have fun. If there are people playing STO who like it, then there could be other people with similar likes/dislikes that "surprisingly" like the game. As far as the "statistical" number, again Wow is about 20-40 times populated than the other p2p mmos. I could argue that Eve is just boring stars and trying to back it up by saying than wow is about 30 time more populated so statistically most people consider wow a superior game over Eve, which is not even worth to try.
You might be surprised by the OP claim but it is not done to convice you or the other people who made their decision based on their experiece, is to encourage people who has not try it to get their own conclusions, could you argue against somebody taking advantage of a free weekend or trial, or if the person has some bucks to throw then just buy the game? I don't find any harm on that.
i understand this, and i agree with you. people should come to their own conclusions, part of doing that is using these forums to find out what to expect, or just decide wether it is even worth the time to install a game and play it for a couple of days.
ill give you an example from my own experience:
i have been following MO off and on for a few months due to hearing it had some creative new ideas for gameplay and crafting. (both of which are true from what i have read). after doing a bit of reading about the game on these forums, i had second thoughts due to an overwhelmingly bad amount of posts about the game. yesterday after doing some more reading, i found a link to a post by a dev from the game where the dev openly admits the game is not polished is not going to be so for a very long time (its essentially a piad alpha/early beta)
am i interested in playing this game still.... no, not for at least a couple of years now. this is because i know what to expect. a half finished game is not worth the time to download and then play for a few days to figure out what i could discover by doing a few minutes of reading. is there people who say "i enjoy this game" when it comes to mo... yes. this doesnt change the fact that the game is bug ridden and incomplete... and me personally, im totally not interested in paying 15$ a month for a beta.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
You should always try any game and make your own mind up despite reviews and especially what people say on forums, a very good personal example is EVE as many good friends from other games told me how bad it was and how it was "point and click excel in space" and other stuff and this was from people I knew and whose opinions I trusted and respected not just random people on forums.
I avoided the game for around two years until I finally decided I had to see for myself and I instantly fell in love with it, and while many of you will no doubt repost your opinions about STOs shortcomings I cannot see them as problems specific to STO as they are problems in MMOs in general.
Every MMO is repetitive and can be boring with an endless progression of quest after quest, can you honestly say that any are not? how is the game play in say WoW any different at a high level as when you first start out? you may have some extra abilities or better equipment and more HP or need a gang of people to deal enough damage or to heal each other but that's it, one scripted NPC AI is the same as another and while the immediate location might look different they share the same basic functioning of game mechanics as every other location.
Worse is the fact that not only MMOs repetitive internally they are repetitive across games as almost every release shares the same basic design concept, WoW is like Everquest, Age of Conan is like Warhammer online and so on.
I recently started playing STO casually as just an extra game to play, I like Star Trek and sometimes I do not have time for a four hour long EVE op or don't feel like going on a long roam and STO is perfect as a SF game I can pick and play for an hour and I am enjoying it in contrary to all of the negativity people direct towards it and I think many people expected to much from it like a huge free roaming world where you can beam down to every planet and then explore a huge free roaming landscape on that planet as well as wanting loads of diplomacy and themes from the show.
How they ever expected things like that I have no idea, no game ever has ever really manged to present non combat objectives in a game in any other way than talking to NPCs and selecting the appropriate dialogue responses or solving a puzzle.
So yes STO has its faults but many people expect far to much for any game to be able to achieve and be an interesting and exciting game.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
I numbered your points for easier reference to my responses:
1. For the first issue: Yes, all MMOs have a repetitiveness to them. However most aren't as blatantly obvious about it, or as noticeable as early on, as Cryptic games.
2. For the second issue: It's not so much that they were expecting vastly different and innovative mechanics for diplomacy, though there are better ways of approaching it (i.e. multiple dialog choices that allow for different outcomes, such as SW:TOR is said to be doing), but rather people were wanting a greater number of missions for the Federation to be based on diplomacy (or exploration) instead of combat. I don't think that's asking for too much.
3. The problem is that Cryptic set many of those expectations themselves; the game at launch was definately not how they were advertising it to be, even up to launch and slightly afterwards. A good example fo this is that they game was billed as a AAA MMO, but is obviously only really suited towards casual play. That is why most of those who enjoy it seem to be casual players, with many falling into the ultra-casual category.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I agree with this 100%. You can go round and round on what parts you find fun in a game and someone else will find an argument why that is not fun. Stating I enjoy the game because I find it fun is in my opinion enough.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
You know what I thought about as far as the breaking of immersion especially as it applies to the text, I don't make it a point to complain about folks breaking the ip but what did bother me about STO as far as this subject was the fact that it was just so often. Yes the port/starboard thing bothered me too even more so when you consider whether you know it or not this consequensless game is the perfect place to learn it but take that in conjuction with the rest of the lifeless quest text and eronious reporting and it all adds up.
Again I'm not defending the practice of immersion whining but in STO's case I can see alot more cause for it than in other games I've heard these kind of complaints in.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
This is pretty much how I feel about it. This says a lot since I've watched every episode of every ST show there ever was including the old cartoon show. I also have read several books and own 2 out of 3 star trek pinball machines.
I can't think of a better insult to cryptic then to deny them a true fans money.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Oh there definately is cuase to complain about it; STO has many elements that feel like they just slapped a Star Trek skin on it and called it a day. Sure there a Star Trek references scattered around, but they seemed to be tossed in there randomly. With so many features that were half-assed in the game at launch, and many that still are today, I just find it a bit strange that the "we're under attack" NPC bit is the thing that breaks some people's immersion; in my mind, there are far too many more glaring immersion breakers in STO.
As to the port/starboard thing? If I remember correctly, the excuse the STO devs gave for not using that was the same as the reason they gave for not having full 3D movement; the alpha testers had difficulties with it.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I came to believe that when Cryptic says that the Alpha testors had trouble or that something just can't be done is usually just an excuse for not wanting to do it. I have yet to see someone who Alpha tested the game say they did not want 360 turns/loops or that they got motion sickness without all those rocks in every system or the game does not need ingame voice chat..
More power to you. This is a rare instance where I agree with the critics. Maybe if this game had been released ten years ago it would have been more popular, but players have been there and done that already.The fact that it is selling for 10 dollars after less than a year is sad. I myself stayed as long as I could, but the boring missions along with the worse customer service I have ever seen by a company made me drop this in less than two months.Cryptic has now joined SOE as companies that I will never do business with again.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Well I have to say this. I had canceled my pre-order of STO becasuethe beta was so bad. I said that I would come back in six months and give it a try.
I had a blast doing some of the missions. Like the tribble mission, the guardian of forever. There was some Star Trek lore and I enjoyed it for what it was.
So I been playing the past month on and off. This is what I saw.
(1) Took 3 weeks to get to the top rank of VA Vice Admiral
(2) After you reach vice admiral whats left to do
(A) Roll an alt another type of toon or Klingon
(B) Run dailies to get emblems to buy different things
(3) Social interaction. This is the part of the game that needs tons of help. I found the tools to be hard to use. Such as bringing up the fleet window, looking through a log of events, and the bank log going back only 2 days.
(4) Ground missions, they are still bad. It is like your in a holodeck with walls. Ground mission are the true downfall of this game. You get NPC's stuck your crew stuck and I have had to file several tickets because things get stuck and your quest does not update.
(5) The cryptic store. Ahem. Yes well even I spent a couple of dollars there. I wanted the dreadnought. Oh by the way it is not worth the cash for it, just wait till VA and get a star cruiser you will be much more happier.
I have to rank the game 6/10. The reason is it is fun to play until you run out of things to do. The problem is that happens very quickly and less than a month. I am gong to keep my sub running another month just to see what if anything they do. You have to wonder what they are going to do next. The main problem is the level cap at this point. There is not much you can do, now that you have Vice Admiral, that after Rear Admiral. I guess you could go Ambassador but they already have that rank for diplomatic missions. So your really out of luck with the ranks, and level cap.
The weekly missions were ok and fun but took less than 4 hours each to run.
Ooooooohhhhh , now you did it, prepare to incur the wrath of the CDF. They claim that there is more then a months worth of content and only hardcore players run out of content. It's interesting that 6 months after release it still only takes less then a month to complete the game.
Rofl I say. I had not even been playing it full time.I put in 3 or 4 hours a day, then trotted back off to eq2. Some days I did nto play at all. Anybody who takes more than a month to complete the content has to only be playing very limited number of hours per week.
Now there is content left, if you like pvp and or daily mission. And well the breen series was great. You waited each week to do it, then in a matter of hours you were done with that weeks mission.
who knows what they are going to come up with, the main thing is now there kind of very level capped.
Its good that you have fun in sto. Sto is the bigest cash grab I have ever seen in my 10 years of playing online,
http://ksbscrapbook.com/
I had fun until it became booring repetition, and your right cash grab dont even cover the words I would like to use about it.
This thread came up in the recently posted section. As such I feel compelled to say I will never play this abomination of a Star Trek game. Offer rejected.
And let me guess, it took about a month?
Agreed guys. Both of these are my top 2 issues as well.
The boring and repetitious missions. UGH! If I ever do one more "daily" I'll stab myself with a shovel. I'm certain the game has improved since Season 2's release, and truthfully, my sub is still active (year)...but I can't even justify updating the game to myself.
I convinced myself for weeks that the "daily" missions were "fun" and that Cryptic was listening...but they missed deadline after deadline with their "repeatable missions" due to insisting it be tied in to the "sidekicking" feature. Meanwhile, people like me sat there with ONE f'ing mission to do. ONE!!!
The C-Store being their top priority for a full month while I ran the same daily mission will never be forgotten. They had time to create plenty of items for them to sell in the c-store, but they didn't have the time to activate even ONE additional mission for me.
As much as I wanted this to be the game I loved, it became a game that disgusts me. Sloppy, shallow cash grab.
According the STO faithful, playing 3-4 hours a day makes you one of the 'hardcore' players. To be considered an 'average' player by them (despite the fact that you fall in the lower range of the real MMO average player), you need to only play two hours or less per session.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I am playing and really enjoying STO , Kudos to you for making this thread , I think it needs something to counter some of negativity about this game.
My Pro's :
The Space combat is a lot of fun and can become extremely addictive.
The Customization for Ships and characters is superb.
The game has really nice community.
There are always alot of people playing and finding groups is very easy.
The Graphics look great especially in space combat ( tho I do concede the ground combat need some TLC )
The game has new Dev's that are actually improving the game.
Great Star Treksound effects .
Some good opportunity for Role Players is being added to the game.
My Con's:
The game admittedly is not for everyone and is quite casual in its approach.
Ground combat still need work although it has improved massivley since launch.
Cryptic really do have appalling customer service, ( tho I do believe they are starting to improve )
Some missions can seem a little repetive , but to fair nearly every Mmo on the market can have repetitive elements.
Game needs more content , especially Klingon stuff and higher level.
No First person Bridge View sucks.
Space Travel should have been implemented better.
Planet Exploration is sadly missing.
C Store is just wrong Imo.
So as you can see I like the game quite alot , tho I'll admit I am a huge Star Trek Fan, but I can also see that it has quite a few bad points too .
..... right I'm off to Upgrade my Phaser banks so I can stand a chance against that Pesky Gorn Battle Cruiser in the Risa Sector !!
Hmm.. how about just NO... personally. this game just isnt star trek, graphically, it may look like startrek, but, for anyone who has even watched a single episode of the program, you'd have a hard time identifying this game from it, and anyone who grew up with star trek and has watched just about every episode of ST:NG, Enterprise, Voyager.. well.. youd just end up crying in your beer..
or to put it another way;
it may look like a Duck, but it doesnt walk like a Duck and it can't Quack..
any aspersions that might indicate it is in fact a LAME DUCK.. are entirely intentional.
Agreed, daily quests/missions/whatever are the most boring thing anyone ever invented for a MMO. I would like to meet the guy who got the idea originally and punch him in the face, you really have to look after a worse kind of grind.
As for STO Cryptic needs to patch in a lot more content, they made the game in a short time and like many other MMOs do you run out of things too fast because of that. AoC have the same problem, too little content forcing you to grind when you played through it. And WAR..
MMO devs need to know that a game needs a certain amount of content to keep the players subbing, if you can't make enough you should make a B2P CORPG instead with no monthly fees.