You want to CRAFT? Goodluck! The UI is so god damn laggy it LITERALLY took me 2 minutes to switch from an axe to a cooking pan/skining knife in my off hand
It's likely either your system or its configuration, as I have been playing it well on a desktop and laptop system.
Like people have said. I personally think all games are timesinks. You get what you put into it.
I personally think all games are timesinks. You get what you put into it. I personally only find the menus sluggish when I'm in congested areas, but that's my fault for being a slow butt and not leveling ahead of the mob to avoid it.
What server are you on? That's horrible that no one answered you. =(
I agree: "I personally think all games are timesinks. You get what you put into it." to a point. The case with FF here is that some people have more time to put into it yet, are limited by the system. For example, if I managed to put 5 hours a day into playing a game yet only recieved 3 hours of "put into it" then the remaining time could be considered loss. You know, I understand the threshold of gaming but feel that FF here stops me from getting to where I want to go (ie higher up in game). Why should it matter who gets to the next level first? But, you are correct "I personally think all games are timesinks. You get what you put into it."
Except we'd also have to look at what made the individual feel like those 2 hours were wasted. Was it because they were chatting on linkshell? Botching synthesis after synthesis?
For me personally, I feel like i'm waiting my time in any capacity I look at ways to fix this. So if I want to level up crafting but don't want to look for items in the Bazaar or go and harvest, I just ask my linkshell mates. I probably have items we could trade to get the job done.
This for me makes the game immensely enjoyable. Because I can skip almost anything I feel is a timesink. Which may include not playing if I can't commit enough attention to it.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Like people have said. I personally think all games are timesinks. You get what you put into it.
I personally think all games are timesinks. You get what you put into it. I personally only find the menus sluggish when I'm in congested areas, but that's my fault for being a slow butt and not leveling ahead of the mob to avoid it.
What server are you on? That's horrible that no one answered you. =(
I agree: "I personally think all games are timesinks. You get what you put into it." to a point. The case with FF here is that some people have more time to put into it yet, are limited by the system. For example, if I managed to put 5 hours a day into playing a game yet only recieved 3 hours of "put into it" then the remaining time could be considered loss. You know, I understand the threshold of gaming but feel that FF here stops me from getting to where I want to go (ie higher up in game). Why should it matter who gets to the next level first? But, you are correct "I personally think all games are timesinks. You get what you put into it."
Except we'd also have to look at what made the individual feel like those 2 hours were wasted. Was it because they were chatting on linkshell? Botching synthesis after synthesis?
For me personally, I feel like i'm waiting my time in any capacity I look at ways to fix this. So if I want to level up crafting but don't want to look for items in the Bazaar or go and harvest, I just ask my linkshell mates. I probably have items we could trade to get the job done.
This for me makes the game immensely enjoyable. Because I can skip almost anything I feel is a timesink. Which may include not playing if I can't commit enough attention to it.
Good point, "Except we'd also have to look at what made the individual feel like those 2 hours were wasted." and I agree unless, my wanting to get to the next area of challenging map/crafting/growing is unobtainable and/or enjoyable. Sure, there are things to do while waiting for others to catch-up on the timer but for me personally they are secondary. That is, yea I want to save the city from the ugly dragon or defend the town from the evil...thing. I want to earn being a hero with the time alloted to do so. Point being is that I paid for a game that told me that I could be the hero but, only at thier pace. To this end, emmensely enjoyable is in the view of the player.
I'm not one to dis a computer game. I'm actually EXTREMELY forgiving when it comes to launches(I actually really enjoyed AoC since launch). My favorite MMORPG was asherons call(badass game). But this game is plain reatarded.
Wow. It sounds like if there isn't a big sign above NPC questgiver's heads and big pointers on a map for quests or that you actually have to TALK to NPC's to find out what they can do, that a number of players don't know what to do anymore.
Player mentality sure has come a long way since EQ
Anyone who stepped into FFXIV without realising that it hasn't the same gameplay look & feel of a WoW has only himself to blame: some people can adapt to that different, slower pace of gameplay and enjoy, and others can't adapt. Well, each their own taste of games and what annoyances they can cope with or tolerate.
Besides that, I guess like in all games you have the typical launch issues, when server populations are bursting and hordes of new players are all roaming around in the same areas. Lag is certain to be more than normal.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Good point, "Except we'd also have to look at what made the individual feel like those 2 hours were wasted." and I agree unless, my wanting to get to the next area of challenging map/crafting/growing is unobtainable and/or enjoyable. Sure, there are things to do while waiting for others to catch-up on the timer but for me personally they are secondary. That is, yea I want to save the city from the ugly dragon or defend the town from the evil...thing. I want to earn being a hero with the time alloted to do so. Point being is that I paid for a game that told me that I could be the hero but, only at thier pace. To this end, emmensely enjoyable is in the view of the player.
I don't think the next area of challenge is ever unobtainable though? If you want to make the the best loot in the game you have to work your way up, and by reaching your goal it validates all the time you spent getting there.
Same thing for leveling to be a hero, you have to gain skills, etc. You can do leves, behest, grind, or storyline quests. However reacher level 10 to get to the next part of the tutorial quests isn't too bad if you work the leves and party up.
I think the game just makes you feel that it take a lot more time to get to where we want to be when in reality it's mostly just in our head. In most games you don't really exit the noob station until you are 15-20.. So I personally feel that sure, it is a timesink if you've already figured out how to make the best use of your time, but if you have figured out how to make the best use of your time, you'd already be out of that situation. I guess is what I'm saying.
A time sink is a time sink, but this game doesn't really feel like you are in tutorial mode the whole first 20 levels because it's going at a slower pace. So how we mentally perceive where we are is exponentially increased based on our time.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Wow. It sounds like if there isn't a big sign above NPC questgiver's heads and big pointers on a map for quests or that you actually have to TALK to NPC's to find out what they can do, that a number of players don't know what to do anymore.
Player mentality sure has come a long way since EQ
Or maybe obscurity and obfuscation of required or needed information is just really bad game design? If NPCs had reasonable visual indication of who they were or even IF they had anything relevant for the player then I could see your point. However, there is nothing to indicate what NPCs need to be spoken with or which ones actually do anything. That issue is compounded by half the NPCs being longwinded blowhards with a novel to spew out.
When a player is looking to complete a task, or even figure out how to use the basic functions of the game world, it seems counter-productive to suffer them through a shell game of NPCs, where the penalty for picking the empty one is mindless prattle that has no bearing or affect on what that player wants to or needs to do in game.
But, by all means, feel free to call your fellow gamers dumb or mentally challenged for not wanting to wade through archaic and confusing game design. That's certainly more helpful than trying to offer tips, tricks and advice to help them along.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
But, by all means, feel free to call your fellow gamers dumb or mentally challenged for not wanting to wade through archaic and confusing game design. That's certainly more helpful than trying to offer tips, tricks and advice to help them along.
I was reacting to the OP, he clearly wasn't looking for more information, he was venting. And if he wants some information, in this thread that was already provided in.
But if you feel addressed by my ridiculisation of easy-mode player game mentality and think I'm saying you or players who don't like to learn to work with FFXIV's game design dumb, then be my guest, I'm not taking one word back of it
Because yes, players in MMO's like EQ did manage to find their own way, they could have ragequitted when encountering the first hurdles, but we would've missed a blast of a time if we'd done that. And yes, what should be apparent, a lot of FFXIV gamers have no trouble AT ALL to find their own way as well and adapt to the different kind of gameplay, and not let the different design be in the way of their enjoyment of the game. Getting used to the different controls and non-standard gameplay aspects in FFXIV is without a doubt a hurdle to take, and requires more time to getting used to than in other MMORPG's for sure.
It's not a matter of mentally challenged or stupidity, it's about laziness, inflexibility of mind and lack of adaptability.
But hey, as I said before, not every game is for everyone's taste.
You take a step back, and evaluate for yourself whether the good stuff surpasses the bad stuff for you. If not, no shame in that, there's enough other MMORPG's around that cater to other tastes.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Wow. It sounds like if there isn't a big sign above NPC questgiver's heads and big pointers on a map for quests or that you actually have to TALK to NPC's to find out what they can do, that a number of players don't know what to do anymore.
Player mentality sure has come a long way since EQ
Or maybe obscurity and obfuscation of required or needed information is just really bad game design? If NPCs had reasonable visual indication of who they were or even IF they had anything relevant for the player then I could see your point. However, there is nothing to indicate what NPCs need to be spoken with or which ones actually do anything. That issue is compounded by half the NPCs being longwinded blowhards with a novel to spew out.
When a player is looking to complete a task, or even figure out how to use the basic functions of the game world, it seems counter-productive to suffer them through a shell game of NPCs, where the penalty for picking the empty one is mindless prattle that has no bearing or affect on what that player wants to or needs to do in game.
But, by all means, feel free to call your fellow gamers dumb or mentally challenged for not wanting to wade through archaic and confusing game design. That's certainly more helpful than trying to offer tips, tricks and advice to help them along.
The implementation of mechanics offered in FFXIV is just SE's design philosopy when it comes to creating MMOs.
It was exactly the same in FFXI - they're more concrened with immersion and discovery rather than player convenience. NPC vendors were also pretty random in FFXI - the only difference here, is that the western population is on an equal playing field as JP players, and nothing has been mapped out yet.
this game is terribad, or at least not to my tastes. Have a proffession for a class... boring! I don't know who would enjoy spending their time fishing. The only attack I had was to throw a rock which delt 1 dmg u_u. I think this game is more for the eve players
this game is terribad, or at least not to my tastes. Have a proffession for a class... boring! I don't know who would enjoy spending their time fishing. The only attack I had was to throw a rock which delt 1 dmg u_u. I think this game is more for the eve players
You aren't supposed to fight with a disciple of hand or land... Because you don't have to, you gain exp from doing your job. It is a bit of a pain when you are in a cave and get jumped by some of it's inhabitants but that's why you usually have a physical class to fight them off with. Or you can just run... which works just as well. =D
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Even if you could stand the clunky ui which I can, you really shouldn't have to tbh. It's nearly 2011 and we can't design a couple of scrolling menus better than we did under windows 98?
No the problem is you shouldn't have to deal with it. We've accepted you need to adapt but don't defend the developers for bad design.
The game in an of itself isn't hard I played in Ul'dah and the merchants on the map had a symbol and a name on the map. It even said the guild names. While yes the little merchants (the ones who sell odds and ends) have things like books and weapons. I think i can translate what a weapon symbol means. It means the NPC at that area sells weapons. When i got there and clicked on the npc guess what? it sold weapons. 2 and 2 really does make 4.
While yes some of the controls make you go why did they do it that way? You have to remember it was designed for the controller first. If your using a keyboard and mouse your basically having to go through a check which may also be slowing you down.
Most games have us in the now now now mentality, it doesn't have us slowing down at all to actually look around. Sure i got lost in Ul'dah a number of times. But after 2 days, i knew where everything was because i explored the city slowly and learned it's routes and turns.
FF14 takes a bit of getting used to. It's that style of game. It takes a bit to adapt at realistic racing games if you've played arcade style all your life. This is just a different form. While yes the lag between options is a problem (which from what i hear is being corrected) the finding the npcs/quest isn't. thats just not looking around. Your simply not going to be shown with a guiding light where the next npc is. You gotta stop and use your brain (teachers love it when you use that part and they love it even more when games enforce it)
I don't mean that to come off rude but i played EQ for 4 years straight with no ! marks and trying to find quests all on my own without a map. Yes there was no map back then you had to remember the area. This is coming off as a "we had to walk both ways to school in the snow idea" i know but seriously, we learned, and it was for the better because we relied on ourselves to learn our way around. Not a map or a guide, it also made us faster and more easily adaptable to changing situations. It really does make you a better gamer when you can adapt at situations on your own instead of saying that the developers should change it.
So in short (i know too late)
The lag between clicks is a problem, and should be shorten as much as possible.
In my opinion you shouldn't have to make macros to get to things like inventory, thats just unneeded when a macro should already be in place (like hitting I or B to get to it, but i assume again this is because it was designed for the controller first and no keyboard shortcuts were made, that should be corrected and a keyboard version should be made as only the PC version is out now).
The switching weapons i've never had to do and didn't see a reason you should need to, but to each their own.
the lack of labels for an NPC or an NPC telling you exactly where a mob is, is not a problem. Sorry thats design, adapt or don't
No NPC in that game is going to have a ! or ? above their head. Thats design, adapt or don't.
In my personal opinion if you gave up on the game after 3 days of buying it.
1. You wasted your money.
2. You didn't do any research on the game because if you had, you would know what type of game it was like.
3. This game probably isn't for you, because this game requires patience which if you gave up after 3 days, you do not have.
Thats not meant to be rude (again i wanna make that clear because people takes things really badly sometimes on this forum) but 3 days on one game isn't enough time to learn it. thats a rage quit.
To the FF14 fans: i really hope i didn't get that city name wrong. If i did i apologize
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
This game probably isn't for you, because this game requires patience which if you gave up after 3 days, you do not have.
Thats not meant to be rude (again i wanna make that clear because people takes things really badly sometimes on this forum) but 3 days on one game isn't enough time to learn it. thats a rage quit.
I see that you're trying really hard to throw that disclaimer in there, but saying you don't intend something to be rude doesn't make it not rude. I mean, you're being quite condescending.
To address what you're trying to say: patience has absolutely nothing to do with like or dislike. There's a plethora of reasons for a person to dislike any game, and FFXIV is no exception. In fact, on the whole it has more things to nitpick at that add up to an entirely unenjoyable experience for plenty of intelligent, patient folks. If a game experience isn't fun, it isn't fun. No amount of logic, reasoning or debate is going to 'fix' that or convince someone that they should have - in fact - enjoyed themselves.
Also, when it comes to games, no amount of forcing yourself to play it is going to guarantee your eventual enjoyment of it. That's akin to saying that someone will come to love shoveling snow if they do it all the time. Just ain't gonna happen. On top of that, it doesn't take long for many people - especially experienced gamers - to try a game out for a little while and know that they're not enjoying it, and won't regardless of what changes. If the game's putting you to sleep when you play, or you don't even feel like bothering to log in after 3 days, why make yourself play at all? That's just stupid.
All that said, my experience with FFXIV thus far is a short stint in beta, and following these and ffxivcore's forums a bit here and there. What I've gotten from it is that FFXIV gets in its own way of being fun for a lot of people with a lot of backgrounds from a lot of games. Responses like the one above are what get people frustrated even further and cause folks to label you 'fanboi' because you're just talking down to someone as if they're too ignorant, too impatient, or just plain too stupid to 'get it' because clearly you can. I will agree that buying a CE pre-order is a particularly silly thing to do without researching a game. In fact, pre-ordering anything is pretty damn stupid to begin with unless you're absolutely 100% sure you're making the right choice. Even then, it's a stretch.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Really though, its 2010, if you need to know where everything is just slap the games name and wiki into google.
And if it REALLY takes you two minutes to swap your weapon out, you are either trying to play games during epileptic fits or have a terrible terrible computer.
Now, currently, you can do eight guildleves per day, thats eight quests that grant large amounts of money, free equipment, and credits to be spent toward bonus abilities for your class and the undertaking of more difficult quests.
Its ok to not like the game, just stop screaming about intentional design features and your imability to map a few keyboard shortcuts to your brain.
Trying to find an npc that is not labeled and the map is less then useless because they thought it would be immersive to use some made up final fantasy language rather then english is blaspemous.
and OMG!!! 8 of the same quests everyday?! where do i sign up!!!?? The first time I did these it took me about 40 minutes to complete all 8. 40 minutes of content??? where do i sign up!?!!!
In all seriousness, this has nothing to do with my inability to map a few keyboard shortcuts to my brain. These are gamebreaking flaws, which I do not see being fixed knowing how SE operates. If they could just fix the UI lag it would be amazing. I could deal with this fucked up maze of trying to find something, because it wouldnt take 30 secounds to check out an npc for something I need.
Did you even play FFXI? Having 8 quests is a godsend. I won t go into detail of why it is, but if you did play FFXI you ll know what I mean, if you didn t then maybe you should have tried it first. UI lag i m not sure why so many people are having it so bad, the odd time it takes 2 seconds instead of 1 for me. As far as grouping, I m sure most people are discovering how to play classes or many classes, which you don t need any group members at all until I would say 10+. The only thing I can say is go explore more, because you obviously haven t really tried in 15+ hours. I m having no problems whatsoever finding mobs to kill.
I agree with what your saying if the OP was actually just dissatisfied with the game and says i didn't care for the game. But hes going all the way with saying that the game is stupid because it doesn't have labels and things take too long to do. This isn't dissatisfied with the game, this is just raging against the game because it's something he/she doesn't like. They are basically refusing to take the idea into consideration. An MMO takes at least 3 days to understand completely. While yes experienced gamers will know what they want. Those same experience gamers understand that sometimes a game is just not for them, and will dump it. Those same experienced gamers will try to get into the open beta as hard as possible if they are really interested or at least get gamer responses to it. all this was brought up numerous times on this forum so it really shouldn't have surprised him/her nor warranted this thread.
Also my disclaimer was there for this very reason, it's being blunt with the person, because they are just throwing the game out as an terrible game that should be dumped into the garbage. It's not actually. It's just a game thats for a select number of people. My statements was that if you don't want to learn the game, you shouldn't play it. But to start attacking design features such as no quest person indicator or glowing trail is wrong. I can understand completely saying i don't like the menus being too slow or the lag when i walk into town or that i can't turn my graphics all the way up even though my computer can handle it. But this person is basically saying there are no indications where to go next (if quest wise, it's in the quest text which takes about 5 seconds to get to, if it's shops they are labeled on the map)
It's one thing to be dissatisfied with a game ( I never go after someone for this) or to just give up on a game you don't like (I don't go after someone for this either) But when someone says the games stupid or terrible merely because they don't try to learn it (it really isn't that hard, click the menu click inventory, your there)
I agree some of the ideas of lag, menu delay, and having to make macros are flawed, but the exploration this person (at least from what i can see) refuses to do is not a flaw.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
In my humble opinion patience does have a lot to do with likes and dislikes. I can remember so many things in my life I have grown to love because I exercised patience and spent time learning and finding out more things about something. We cannot explain what changes our opinion about a thing. It could be just one thing that turns the tide from like to dislike or hate to love. It has happened to me too in games I have tried.
Of course I am not saying that is the case here it could be that some people just like what they like and cannot like other things and you are entitled to that as you have spent money on something and you are entitled to like or dislike something. However making a blanket claim you might have never changed your mind if you had spent more time on something is not true.I am speaking from experience where I have said to myself coming into something I will never like this and have become so addicted to it , it was shameless.
I also agree with many here that saying something is stupid because it does not hold you hand and point you in the direction of the quest is a display of the horrible state of MMORPGs these days that people expect as of a right to be told where to go and have indicators over the head of NPCs. You are all spoilt rotten. You have lost the tools to adventure from lack of use. Miserable sorry reasons to criticize FFXIV for trying to bring back the old school of playing. If any of you came from the original Everquest you would understand what I am talking about. I also played FFXI so I know exactly what to expect.
I guess you have the right to be angry that the game does not follow your precepts of how a MMORPG should be but if you spent any time researching the game you would have been forewarned. Then to come here and spout nonsense about how a game is "wrong" because it does not follow what you expect is audacious but this is a forum so by all means do so but don't expect agreement.
Yeah, we've heard it all before. It all comes down to this: the game is harder than you're used to and also it is operating under atypical conditions right now.
Discovering which NPCs sell the things you want? Part of the exploration task the game gives you.
Really though, its 2010, if you need to know where everything is just slap the games name and wiki into google.
And if it REALLY takes you two minutes to swap your weapon out, you are either trying to play games during epileptic fits or have a terrible terrible computer.
Now, currently, you can do eight guildleves per day, thats eight quests that grant large amounts of money, free equipment, and credits to be spent toward bonus abilities for your class and the undertaking of more difficult quests.
Its ok to not like the game, just stop screaming about intentional design features and your imability to map a few keyboard shortcuts to your brain.
Trying to find an npc that is not labeled and the map is less then useless because they thought it would be immersive to use some made up final fantasy language rather then english is blaspemous.
and OMG!!! 8 of the same quests everyday?! where do i sign up!!!?? The first time I did these it took me about 40 minutes to complete all 8. 40 minutes of content??? where do i sign up!?!!!
In all seriousness, this has nothing to do with my inability to map a few keyboard shortcuts to my brain. These are gamebreaking flaws, which I do not see being fixed knowing how SE operates. If they could just fix the UI lag it would be amazing. I could deal with this fucked up maze of trying to find something, because it wouldnt take 30 secounds to check out an npc for something I need.
places are named in english... like hawkes vally. thunder sticks. saphire exchange
Yeah, we've heard it all before. It all comes down to this: the game is harder than you're used to and also it is operating under atypical conditions right now.
Discovering which NPCs sell the things you want? Part of the exploration task the game gives you.
OMG.. LOL! I almost cried laughing. That's exactly what a fanboi would say.. good one, sir.
I can't see what people are complaining about myself, you have the leves and the story arc. Rest is up to you pretty much...I am guessing open world PvE is scary for some compared to the linearity and safety of WoW.
Yeah, we've heard it all before. It all comes down to this: the game is harder than you're used to and also it is operating under atypical conditions right now.
Discovering which NPCs sell the things you want? Part of the exploration task the game gives you.
OMG.. LOL! I almost cried laughing. That's exactly what a fanboi would say.. good one, sir.
I can't see what people are complaining about myself, you have the leves and the story arc. Rest is up to you pretty much...I am guessing open world PvE is scary for some compared to the linearity and safety of WoW.
Except there is nothing "OPEN" about the pve in FFXIV. Boring, tedious and lacking a much needed UI and chat overhall maybe, but open... no. This game is crap and I wish I could find someone to buy my CE. Everyone I have grouped with so far is frustrated as well.
Comments
It's likely either your system or its configuration, as I have been playing it well on a desktop and laptop system.
Except we'd also have to look at what made the individual feel like those 2 hours were wasted. Was it because they were chatting on linkshell? Botching synthesis after synthesis?
For me personally, I feel like i'm waiting my time in any capacity I look at ways to fix this. So if I want to level up crafting but don't want to look for items in the Bazaar or go and harvest, I just ask my linkshell mates. I probably have items we could trade to get the job done.
This for me makes the game immensely enjoyable. Because I can skip almost anything I feel is a timesink. Which may include not playing if I can't commit enough attention to it.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Good point, "Except we'd also have to look at what made the individual feel like those 2 hours were wasted." and I agree unless, my wanting to get to the next area of challenging map/crafting/growing is unobtainable and/or enjoyable. Sure, there are things to do while waiting for others to catch-up on the timer but for me personally they are secondary. That is, yea I want to save the city from the ugly dragon or defend the town from the evil...thing. I want to earn being a hero with the time alloted to do so. Point being is that I paid for a game that told me that I could be the hero but, only at thier pace. To this end, emmensely enjoyable is in the view of the player.
/god awful
thought that summed it up nicely op.
this is comedic gold!
Wow. It sounds like if there isn't a big sign above NPC questgiver's heads and big pointers on a map for quests or that you actually have to TALK to NPC's to find out what they can do, that a number of players don't know what to do anymore.
Player mentality sure has come a long way since EQ
Anyone who stepped into FFXIV without realising that it hasn't the same gameplay look & feel of a WoW has only himself to blame: some people can adapt to that different, slower pace of gameplay and enjoy, and others can't adapt. Well, each their own taste of games and what annoyances they can cope with or tolerate.
Besides that, I guess like in all games you have the typical launch issues, when server populations are bursting and hordes of new players are all roaming around in the same areas. Lag is certain to be more than normal.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
oh yeah forgot just like ffxi for more information use the wiki:
http://www.eorzeapedia.com/wiki/en/Main_Page
and a video of first thickshell defeat on this server. (not from me)
this is how grouping "can" look like though only healers and the tank were on top of actions.
I don't think the next area of challenge is ever unobtainable though? If you want to make the the best loot in the game you have to work your way up, and by reaching your goal it validates all the time you spent getting there.
Same thing for leveling to be a hero, you have to gain skills, etc. You can do leves, behest, grind, or storyline quests. However reacher level 10 to get to the next part of the tutorial quests isn't too bad if you work the leves and party up.
I think the game just makes you feel that it take a lot more time to get to where we want to be when in reality it's mostly just in our head. In most games you don't really exit the noob station until you are 15-20.. So I personally feel that sure, it is a timesink if you've already figured out how to make the best use of your time, but if you have figured out how to make the best use of your time, you'd already be out of that situation. I guess is what I'm saying.
A time sink is a time sink, but this game doesn't really feel like you are in tutorial mode the whole first 20 levels because it's going at a slower pace. So how we mentally perceive where we are is exponentially increased based on our time.
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
Or maybe obscurity and obfuscation of required or needed information is just really bad game design? If NPCs had reasonable visual indication of who they were or even IF they had anything relevant for the player then I could see your point. However, there is nothing to indicate what NPCs need to be spoken with or which ones actually do anything. That issue is compounded by half the NPCs being longwinded blowhards with a novel to spew out.
When a player is looking to complete a task, or even figure out how to use the basic functions of the game world, it seems counter-productive to suffer them through a shell game of NPCs, where the penalty for picking the empty one is mindless prattle that has no bearing or affect on what that player wants to or needs to do in game.
But, by all means, feel free to call your fellow gamers dumb or mentally challenged for not wanting to wade through archaic and confusing game design.
That's certainly more helpful than trying to offer tips, tricks and advice to help them along.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I was reacting to the OP, he clearly wasn't looking for more information, he was venting. And if he wants some information, in this thread that was already provided in.
But if you feel addressed by my ridiculisation of easy-mode player game mentality and think I'm saying you or players who don't like to learn to work with FFXIV's game design dumb, then be my guest, I'm not taking one word back of it
Because yes, players in MMO's like EQ did manage to find their own way, they could have ragequitted when encountering the first hurdles, but we would've missed a blast of a time if we'd done that. And yes, what should be apparent, a lot of FFXIV gamers have no trouble AT ALL to find their own way as well and adapt to the different kind of gameplay, and not let the different design be in the way of their enjoyment of the game. Getting used to the different controls and non-standard gameplay aspects in FFXIV is without a doubt a hurdle to take, and requires more time to getting used to than in other MMORPG's for sure.
It's not a matter of mentally challenged or stupidity, it's about laziness, inflexibility of mind and lack of adaptability.
But hey, as I said before, not every game is for everyone's taste.
You take a step back, and evaluate for yourself whether the good stuff surpasses the bad stuff for you. If not, no shame in that, there's enough other MMORPG's around that cater to other tastes.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The implementation of mechanics offered in FFXIV is just SE's design philosopy when it comes to creating MMOs.
It was exactly the same in FFXI - they're more concrened with immersion and discovery rather than player convenience. NPC vendors were also pretty random in FFXI - the only difference here, is that the western population is on an equal playing field as JP players, and nothing has been mapped out yet.
I will have to agree to the OP
this game is terribad, or at least not to my tastes. Have a proffession for a class... boring! I don't know who would enjoy spending their time fishing. The only attack I had was to throw a rock which delt 1 dmg u_u. I think this game is more for the eve players
You aren't supposed to fight with a disciple of hand or land... Because you don't have to, you gain exp from doing your job. It is a bit of a pain when you are in a cave and get jumped by some of it's inhabitants but that's why you usually have a physical class to fight them off with. Or you can just run... which works just as well. =D
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
No the problem is you shouldn't have to deal with it. We've accepted you need to adapt but don't defend the developers for bad design.
The game in an of itself isn't hard I played in Ul'dah and the merchants on the map had a symbol and a name on the map. It even said the guild names. While yes the little merchants (the ones who sell odds and ends) have things like books and weapons. I think i can translate what a weapon symbol means. It means the NPC at that area sells weapons. When i got there and clicked on the npc guess what? it sold weapons. 2 and 2 really does make 4.
While yes some of the controls make you go why did they do it that way? You have to remember it was designed for the controller first. If your using a keyboard and mouse your basically having to go through a check which may also be slowing you down.
Most games have us in the now now now mentality, it doesn't have us slowing down at all to actually look around. Sure i got lost in Ul'dah a number of times. But after 2 days, i knew where everything was because i explored the city slowly and learned it's routes and turns.
FF14 takes a bit of getting used to. It's that style of game. It takes a bit to adapt at realistic racing games if you've played arcade style all your life. This is just a different form. While yes the lag between options is a problem (which from what i hear is being corrected) the finding the npcs/quest isn't. thats just not looking around. Your simply not going to be shown with a guiding light where the next npc is. You gotta stop and use your brain (teachers love it when you use that part and they love it even more when games enforce it)
I don't mean that to come off rude but i played EQ for 4 years straight with no ! marks and trying to find quests all on my own without a map. Yes there was no map back then you had to remember the area. This is coming off as a "we had to walk both ways to school in the snow idea" i know but seriously, we learned, and it was for the better because we relied on ourselves to learn our way around. Not a map or a guide, it also made us faster and more easily adaptable to changing situations. It really does make you a better gamer when you can adapt at situations on your own instead of saying that the developers should change it.
So in short (i know too late)
The lag between clicks is a problem, and should be shorten as much as possible.
In my opinion you shouldn't have to make macros to get to things like inventory, thats just unneeded when a macro should already be in place (like hitting I or B to get to it, but i assume again this is because it was designed for the controller first and no keyboard shortcuts were made, that should be corrected and a keyboard version should be made as only the PC version is out now).
The switching weapons i've never had to do and didn't see a reason you should need to, but to each their own.
the lack of labels for an NPC or an NPC telling you exactly where a mob is, is not a problem. Sorry thats design, adapt or don't
No NPC in that game is going to have a ! or ? above their head. Thats design, adapt or don't.
In my personal opinion if you gave up on the game after 3 days of buying it.
1. You wasted your money.
2. You didn't do any research on the game because if you had, you would know what type of game it was like.
3. This game probably isn't for you, because this game requires patience which if you gave up after 3 days, you do not have.
Thats not meant to be rude (again i wanna make that clear because people takes things really badly sometimes on this forum) but 3 days on one game isn't enough time to learn it. thats a rage quit.
To the FF14 fans: i really hope i didn't get that city name wrong. If i did i apologize
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
You got it right, it's Ul'dah. =D
You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.
I see that you're trying really hard to throw that disclaimer in there, but saying you don't intend something to be rude doesn't make it not rude. I mean, you're being quite condescending.
To address what you're trying to say: patience has absolutely nothing to do with like or dislike. There's a plethora of reasons for a person to dislike any game, and FFXIV is no exception. In fact, on the whole it has more things to nitpick at that add up to an entirely unenjoyable experience for plenty of intelligent, patient folks. If a game experience isn't fun, it isn't fun. No amount of logic, reasoning or debate is going to 'fix' that or convince someone that they should have - in fact - enjoyed themselves.
Also, when it comes to games, no amount of forcing yourself to play it is going to guarantee your eventual enjoyment of it. That's akin to saying that someone will come to love shoveling snow if they do it all the time. Just ain't gonna happen. On top of that, it doesn't take long for many people - especially experienced gamers - to try a game out for a little while and know that they're not enjoying it, and won't regardless of what changes. If the game's putting you to sleep when you play, or you don't even feel like bothering to log in after 3 days, why make yourself play at all? That's just stupid.
All that said, my experience with FFXIV thus far is a short stint in beta, and following these and ffxivcore's forums a bit here and there. What I've gotten from it is that FFXIV gets in its own way of being fun for a lot of people with a lot of backgrounds from a lot of games. Responses like the one above are what get people frustrated even further and cause folks to label you 'fanboi' because you're just talking down to someone as if they're too ignorant, too impatient, or just plain too stupid to 'get it' because clearly you can. I will agree that buying a CE pre-order is a particularly silly thing to do without researching a game. In fact, pre-ordering anything is pretty damn stupid to begin with unless you're absolutely 100% sure you're making the right choice. Even then, it's a stretch.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Did you even play FFXI? Having 8 quests is a godsend. I won t go into detail of why it is, but if you did play FFXI you ll know what I mean, if you didn t then maybe you should have tried it first. UI lag i m not sure why so many people are having it so bad, the odd time it takes 2 seconds instead of 1 for me. As far as grouping, I m sure most people are discovering how to play classes or many classes, which you don t need any group members at all until I would say 10+. The only thing I can say is go explore more, because you obviously haven t really tried in 15+ hours. I m having no problems whatsoever finding mobs to kill.
I agree with what your saying if the OP was actually just dissatisfied with the game and says i didn't care for the game. But hes going all the way with saying that the game is stupid because it doesn't have labels and things take too long to do. This isn't dissatisfied with the game, this is just raging against the game because it's something he/she doesn't like. They are basically refusing to take the idea into consideration. An MMO takes at least 3 days to understand completely. While yes experienced gamers will know what they want. Those same experience gamers understand that sometimes a game is just not for them, and will dump it. Those same experienced gamers will try to get into the open beta as hard as possible if they are really interested or at least get gamer responses to it. all this was brought up numerous times on this forum so it really shouldn't have surprised him/her nor warranted this thread.
Also my disclaimer was there for this very reason, it's being blunt with the person, because they are just throwing the game out as an terrible game that should be dumped into the garbage. It's not actually. It's just a game thats for a select number of people. My statements was that if you don't want to learn the game, you shouldn't play it. But to start attacking design features such as no quest person indicator or glowing trail is wrong. I can understand completely saying i don't like the menus being too slow or the lag when i walk into town or that i can't turn my graphics all the way up even though my computer can handle it. But this person is basically saying there are no indications where to go next (if quest wise, it's in the quest text which takes about 5 seconds to get to, if it's shops they are labeled on the map)
It's one thing to be dissatisfied with a game ( I never go after someone for this) or to just give up on a game you don't like (I don't go after someone for this either) But when someone says the games stupid or terrible merely because they don't try to learn it (it really isn't that hard, click the menu click inventory, your there)
I agree some of the ideas of lag, menu delay, and having to make macros are flawed, but the exploration this person (at least from what i can see) refuses to do is not a flaw.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
In my humble opinion patience does have a lot to do with likes and dislikes. I can remember so many things in my life I have grown to love because I exercised patience and spent time learning and finding out more things about something. We cannot explain what changes our opinion about a thing. It could be just one thing that turns the tide from like to dislike or hate to love. It has happened to me too in games I have tried.
Of course I am not saying that is the case here it could be that some people just like what they like and cannot like other things and you are entitled to that as you have spent money on something and you are entitled to like or dislike something. However making a blanket claim you might have never changed your mind if you had spent more time on something is not true.I am speaking from experience where I have said to myself coming into something I will never like this and have become so addicted to it , it was shameless.
I also agree with many here that saying something is stupid because it does not hold you hand and point you in the direction of the quest is a display of the horrible state of MMORPGs these days that people expect as of a right to be told where to go and have indicators over the head of NPCs. You are all spoilt rotten. You have lost the tools to adventure from lack of use. Miserable sorry reasons to criticize FFXIV for trying to bring back the old school of playing. If any of you came from the original Everquest you would understand what I am talking about. I also played FFXI so I know exactly what to expect.
I guess you have the right to be angry that the game does not follow your precepts of how a MMORPG should be but if you spent any time researching the game you would have been forewarned. Then to come here and spout nonsense about how a game is "wrong" because it does not follow what you expect is audacious but this is a forum so by all means do so but don't expect agreement.
mod edit
Please refrain from insulting each other. - S
places are named in english... like hawkes vally. thunder sticks. saphire exchange
Thanks for your views OP, guess I'll stay far, far away from this one.
OMG.. LOL! I almost cried laughing. That's exactly what a fanboi would say.. good one, sir.
I can't see what people are complaining about myself, you have the leves and the story arc. Rest is up to you pretty much...I am guessing open world PvE is scary for some compared to the linearity and safety of WoW.Except there is nothing "OPEN" about the pve in FFXIV. Boring, tedious and lacking a much needed UI and chat overhall maybe, but open... no. This game is crap and I wish I could find someone to buy my CE. Everyone I have grouped with so far is frustrated as well.
Playing: Nothing
Retired:Too many to list.