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I hope to clear some things up with this.

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  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781

    Originally posted by Nadriell

    Stopped in to check my thread..... this is turning into a GUI thread when i meant it more for the people who are complaining they have no direction in the game.... and there refusal to read..... huh, funny how these things turn out.

     

    on another note, just hit conj 10  now i am going to switch to Thaum. so i can pick up poison and regen. i figure if i can poison mob, regen me, then waylay with fire blizzard and the like.

     

    anyone else enjoying the game so far?

     

     

    Nadriell~

    Yeah, when people find that one of your 3 bright red points doesn't make any sense, they tend to jump on it. 

     

    Next time, if you only want to discuss one thing (people complaining about direction), only include that as part of the post. 

     

    And about the post I quoted, I would say that I haven't seen anyone complain about having to read. I have seen people complain about having a lack of sense of direction though. And, at least in Beta, I agree with them. This game doesn't have a very solid sense of direction.

     

    I don't mind that it doesn't. But it doesn't.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135

    Originally posted by Presbytier

    Originally posted by aesperus


    Originally posted by katalysis

    If you don't understand interaction design, don't comment on the UI. It's as bad as trolls who've never played the game coming here to bash it.

    The UI is terrible for the PC, because it's not designed for the PC. The reason there is no drag and drop, for example, is because PS3 players don't drag and drop with a controller. SE designed the UI to support the interactive possibilities/standards/metaphors/expectations of the PS3 controller, not the keyboard and mouse of the PC.

    QFT

     

    The hallmarks of a good UI is a system that is:

    - Simple

    - Accessible

    - Efficient

    - Nearly invisible (meaning it demands so little focus from the player that they can ignore it most of the time to focus on the actual game)

    The FFXI UI really doesn't have any of these, unless you are looking at it from a console perspective. If that's the case, then it is a little bit better, but still is lacking.

    That is highly subjective, and one can not say it is or is not any of those things till more time is spent with the game. I can remember when people freaked out over Windows 95, mainly because it was so differrent from Win 3.0 and DoS. The fact is that over time as you adapt to the UI you may find that it is highly efficient(or not I have not made my mind up about it). Also while this game may be coming out on the PS3 the PC version is not a port in fact they are having to retool the game for the PS3.

     

    Look, you can dance around the subjective nature of creating something all you want, but UIs are designed for a SINGLE purpose. What is this purpose? to connect the user to the program being used.

    If the User is caught up in an overly complex, non-accessible, inefficient, or obtrusive UI, he is not focusing on the game, he is focusing on the UI. Saying people can get used to a UI over time does not make the UI design good, but rather comments mostly on the adaptive nature of people. People can get used to anything over time.

    An example of good UI would be the Iphone, or WoW. It's there, but it minimizes it's distraction to the user from the content. That is what makes a UI successful. As katalys stated, if you don't understand UI, please don't comment. There is a lot that goes into it, and there are very real principles that go into what is viewed as 'good UI' by the industry.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756

    Originally posted by aesperus

    Originally posted by Presbytier


    Originally posted by aesperus


    Originally posted by katalysis

    If you don't understand interaction design, don't comment on the UI. It's as bad as trolls who've never played the game coming here to bash it.

    The UI is terrible for the PC, because it's not designed for the PC. The reason there is no drag and drop, for example, is because PS3 players don't drag and drop with a controller. SE designed the UI to support the interactive possibilities/standards/metaphors/expectations of the PS3 controller, not the keyboard and mouse of the PC.

    QFT

     

    The hallmarks of a good UI is a system that is:

    - Simple

    - Accessible

    - Efficient

    - Nearly invisible (meaning it demands so little focus from the player that they can ignore it most of the time to focus on the actual game)

    The FFXI UI really doesn't have any of these, unless you are looking at it from a console perspective. If that's the case, then it is a little bit better, but still is lacking.

    That is highly subjective, and one can not say it is or is not any of those things till more time is spent with the game. I can remember when people freaked out over Windows 95, mainly because it was so differrent from Win 3.0 and DoS. The fact is that over time as you adapt to the UI you may find that it is highly efficient(or not I have not made my mind up about it). Also while this game may be coming out on the PS3 the PC version is not a port in fact they are having to retool the game for the PS3.

     

    Look, you can dance around the subjective nature of creating something all you want, but UIs are designed for a SINGLE purpose. What is this purpose? to connect the user to the program being used.

    If the User is caught up in an overly complex, non-accessible, inefficient, or obtrusive UI, he is not focusing on the game, he is focusing on the UI. Saying people can get used to a UI over time does not make the UI design good, but rather comments mostly on the adaptive nature of people. People can get used to anything over time.

    An example of good UI would be the Iphone, or WoW. It's there, but it minimizes it's distraction to the user from the content. That is what makes a UI successful. As katalys stated, if you don't understand UI, please don't comment. There is a lot that goes into it, and there are very real principles that go into what is viewed as 'good UI' by the industry.

    The UI is extremely intuitive if you're using a controller.  You can get one for 10 bucks for your computer, and it has the added effect of making gameplay more fun (keyboards and mouses weren't made to play games and UIs focusing on them are extremely unintuitive- it's just that everyone is used to them nowadays from playing WoW).

    It's different but it's not bad.  If every game was played using a controller and WoW just came out with it's UI, people like you would be complaining about how awkward it is to use two devices to play the game, how you're using 20 buttons instead of the limited number on your controller, how your fingers can't reach easily etc etc.

  • ShadowzanonShadowzanon Member UncommonPosts: 350

    Weird since there are compatable keybords and mice for the ps3.

  • aesperusaesperus Member UncommonPosts: 5,135

    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    The UI is extremely intuitive if you're using a controller.  You can get one for 10 bucks for your computer, and it has the added effect of making gameplay more fun (keyboards and mouses weren't made to play games and UIs focusing on them are extremely unintuitive- it's just that everyone is used to them nowadays from playing WoW).

    Actually, it's not. I have a controller, I used one for beta. I didn't have problems using the UI, because I've played FFXI before. If it wasn't for FFXI I would have had no clue how to navigate the menus, and when I played FFXI it was again not intuitive. (And yes, I had a controller for that game too)

    Intuitive means that you can just pick something up and it makes sense. This UI doesn't. There's no real instructions as to what does what, and you have to jump through some hoops to get that info. After some playing you can 'get used to' the control scheme, and what is good is that you can customize the buttons to make the controller more adaptable, however you still have to sift through menu upon menu to find things you commonly do / look for in the game.

    One feature FFXI's UI had which they seem to have removed, was the ability to swap out menues (press the -> arrow and it would switch to a different set of commands), this would help out a lot.

    I'm not saying the UI is unusable, but you won't see it winning any awards for UI design anytime soon. It's just not something SE is good at.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756

    Originally posted by lzanon

    Weird since there are compatable keybords and mice for the ps3.

    Obviously you need a keyboard to play an MMORPG to type, but if you think about it, it works as a really horrible excuse for a controller.  I swear sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people unable to think past the most obvious level.

    I started playing MMORPGs with FFXI, and moving to the UI of WoW was really painful, and even once I mastered it in WoW and other games, it never felt as intuitive or as fluid as ffxi and using the controller.  That's because these things are games and not documents or data entry programs, which keyboards and mice were built for.

    WASD and camera control and clicking abilities on the screen is not intuitive until you're used to it.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781

    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    Originally posted by aesperus


     

     

    Look, you can dance around the subjective nature of creating something all you want, but UIs are designed for a SINGLE purpose. What is this purpose? to connect the user to the program being used.

    If the User is caught up in an overly complex, non-accessible, inefficient, or obtrusive UI, he is not focusing on the game, he is focusing on the UI. Saying people can get used to a UI over time does not make the UI design good, but rather comments mostly on the adaptive nature of people. People can get used to anything over time.

    An example of good UI would be the Iphone, or WoW. It's there, but it minimizes it's distraction to the user from the content. That is what makes a UI successful. As katalys stated, if you don't understand UI, please don't comment. There is a lot that goes into it, and there are very real principles that go into what is viewed as 'good UI' by the industry.

    The UI is extremely intuitive if you're using a controller.  You can get one for 10 bucks for your computer, and it has the added effect of making gameplay more fun (keyboards and mouses weren't made to play games and UIs focusing on them are extremely unintuitive- it's just that everyone is used to them nowadays from playing WoW).

    It's different but it's not bad.  If every game was played using a controller and WoW just came out with it's UI, people like you would be complaining about how awkward it is to use two devices to play the game, how you're using 20 buttons instead of the limited number on your controller, how your fingers can't reach easily etc etc.

    It's bad for PC users that expect a UI to work with mouse and keyboard using standard features like drag and drop. It's also bad when you consider the lag. It's also bad when you consider the sheer amount of windows involved in doing things that could take 1 keybind or 1 mouseclick.

     

    It's nicer for controller users. It's bad for PC users. They should ahve made the UI better for PC users. You know, since they released it for PC.

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781

    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    Originally posted by lzanon

    Weird since there are compatable keybords and mice for the ps3.

    Obviously you need a keyboard to play an MMORPG to type, but if you think about it, it works as a really horrible excuse for a controller.  I swear sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people unable to think past the most obvious level.

    I started playing MMORPGs with FFXI, and moving to the UI of WoW was really painful, and even once I mastered it in WoW and other games, it never felt as intuitive or as fluid as ffxi and using the controller.  That's because these things are games and not documents or data entry programs, which keyboards and mice were built for.

    WASD and camera control and clicking abilities on the screen is not intuitive until you're used to it.

    Ohhh, you think controllers are superior to keyboard/mouse. Most players of all games, including FPS, would disagree with you.

     

    But at least I understand where this is coming from now.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,756

    Originally posted by colddog04

    Originally posted by holdenhamlet


    Originally posted by lzanon

    Weird since there are compatable keybords and mice for the ps3.

    Obviously you need a keyboard to play an MMORPG to type, but if you think about it, it works as a really horrible excuse for a controller.  I swear sometimes I feel like I'm talking to people unable to think past the most obvious level.

    I started playing MMORPGs with FFXI, and moving to the UI of WoW was really painful, and even once I mastered it in WoW and other games, it never felt as intuitive or as fluid as ffxi and using the controller.  That's because these things are games and not documents or data entry programs, which keyboards and mice were built for.

    WASD and camera control and clicking abilities on the screen is not intuitive until you're used to it.

    Ohhh, you think controllers are superior to keyboard/mouse. Most players of all games, including FPS, would disagree with you.

     

    But at least I understand where this is coming from now.

    Kind of hard to target things in an FPS with a controller.  Luckily FFXIV isn't an FPS or anything like one really.  But thanks for letting me know what most people think.

    Btw, controller adds zero lag on todays computers and platform is irrelevent since both pc and ps3 will be using the same interface devices (assuming you can pony up 10 dollars for a controller).

  • PresbytierPresbytier Member UncommonPosts: 424

    Originally posted by holdenhamlet

    Originally posted by aesperus


    Originally posted by Presbytier


    Originally posted by aesperus


    Originally posted by katalysis

    If you don't understand interaction design, don't comment on the UI. It's as bad as trolls who've never played the game coming here to bash it.

    The UI is terrible for the PC, because it's not designed for the PC. The reason there is no drag and drop, for example, is because PS3 players don't drag and drop with a controller. SE designed the UI to support the interactive possibilities/standards/metaphors/expectations of the PS3 controller, not the keyboard and mouse of the PC.

    QFT

     

    The hallmarks of a good UI is a system that is:

    - Simple

    - Accessible

    - Efficient

    - Nearly invisible (meaning it demands so little focus from the player that they can ignore it most of the time to focus on the actual game)

    The FFXI UI really doesn't have any of these, unless you are looking at it from a console perspective. If that's the case, then it is a little bit better, but still is lacking.

    That is highly subjective, and one can not say it is or is not any of those things till more time is spent with the game. I can remember when people freaked out over Windows 95, mainly because it was so differrent from Win 3.0 and DoS. The fact is that over time as you adapt to the UI you may find that it is highly efficient(or not I have not made my mind up about it). Also while this game may be coming out on the PS3 the PC version is not a port in fact they are having to retool the game for the PS3.

     

    Look, you can dance around the subjective nature of creating something all you want, but UIs are designed for a SINGLE purpose. What is this purpose? to connect the user to the program being used.

    If the User is caught up in an overly complex, non-accessible, inefficient, or obtrusive UI, he is not focusing on the game, he is focusing on the UI. Saying people can get used to a UI over time does not make the UI design good, but rather comments mostly on the adaptive nature of people. People can get used to anything over time.

    An example of good UI would be the Iphone, or WoW. It's there, but it minimizes it's distraction to the user from the content. That is what makes a UI successful. As katalys stated, if you don't understand UI, please don't comment. There is a lot that goes into it, and there are very real principles that go into what is viewed as 'good UI' by the industry.

    The UI is extremely intuitive if you're using a controller.  You can get one for 10 bucks for your computer, and it has the added effect of making gameplay more fun (keyboards and mouses weren't made to play games and UIs focusing on them are extremely unintuitive- it's just that everyone is used to them nowadays from playing WoW).

    It's different but it's not bad.  If every game was played using a controller and WoW just came out with it's UI, people like you would be complaining about how awkward it is to use two devices to play the game, how you're using 20 buttons instead of the limited number on your controller, how your fingers can't reach easily etc etc.

    This is where I have to disagree with you. I have always found the keyboard and mouse to be very intuitive for gaming especially FPS and MMORPG. I will also admit that drag and drop would be nice, but that does not mean that the UI is difficult or bad.

    "Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  • DamonDamon Member UncommonPosts: 170

    I'll be receiving my copy in the mail tomorrow and look forward to playing it.

    However, I will comment on one aspect that is important to me in any MMO.  If the UI isn't customizable (colors, fonts, multiple windows, positioning, opacity, etc), then it's crap.  There is no acceptable excuse to why any company forces players to use a single configuration, in my opinion.  If it sucks as bad as people are saying, then I hope SE will fix it.

    Auto attack boring, in my opinion.  The few games I've played that don't have it were much cooler for not having it.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    I plan on getting this game in a couple of months but still lets face facts, they ui has been simplified for controller use. To say that those who don't like it are afraid of something new is a gross distortion. If the ui was different in an attempt to improve the interaction between player and game, you'd have a point. But its clear the ui has been simplified and mouse/keyboard users who don't like it are right to say it sucks. That not to say it can't be gotten used to, but that doesn't make it some innovation that people who don't like change are afraid of.

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Member UncommonPosts: 1,592

    Honestly, my only problem with the UI is the speed of it. Many actions, especially crafting, simply take far longer than they should to execute. Taking ~12 seconds to start a crafting leve due to multiple small pauses is about 6 seconds too much.

    <3

  • TorvacTorvac Member UncommonPosts: 135

    theres no point in defending this UI, its broken.

    go read stuff about interface design, or buy a book (best one named 'dont make me think'). and yes there are standards and patterns in interface design for applications and games. theres even research and algorithms to messure interface interaction. following a few easy steps in interface design improves the user experience a lot. the UI is there to help a player to interact with the world. does the ffxiv UI give you that feeling ? i guess not. the amount of steps required to do anything lead you away from the game into submenu navigation. lets play the interface game. even with a controller its broken. im all for different ways in games, but it has to be better, not more complex and misleading. always think about interacting with the functions inside your car, its ok to have some functions in a board computer, but there are things that need to be in place for instant access. only asian companies are arrogant enough to hit customers in the face with crap UIs (their car industry learned it in the late 70s)

  • KlizziKlizzi Member Posts: 110

    Ahhhh, another thread. We get it, you're a masochist. You make shit up in your head to justify stupid decisions you've made in your life (willingly or unwillingly, I don't know anymore). A decision like buying this game half a year too early. If the damn game is SO GOOD, log your ass off this forum and go play it.

    "its a japanese style interface. I personally don't mind it, and enjoy it actually most western people like the WoW style UI, but im sorry i've seen that style a million times, and i am sick of it, this is a nice change of pace."

    - You're saying the UI doesn't suck because it's different? You do understand that right? That's like me saying that I don't enjoy the new 2011 Benz because I've seen the design style on the 2010 Benz. Instead I'm going to design a 7 wheeled car with 6 sun roofs and 2 moon roofs with giant fucking horns on the front, side, and back, and giant flames down the side.

    This new car design will be appealing and refreshing and in no way STUPID, simply because it's new. To prevent idiots from claiming that my concept design is cool, this car actually uses 800 gallons of fuel per mile, skips on the 2nd and 4th gears, and EXPLODES after 20 minutes of driving it. Did I mention the doors lock so you can't get out? Yeah, you're fucked. Much like this UI.

    If you like the game, go play it. I want my 2011 Benz.

  • sultharsulthar Member Posts: 298

    Played FF11 fwe day and got sick of the controls/UI, Beta test this one ... well good luck guys u wont see me playing this game. Just cant play even if I am a FF fanboi. Anyways Civ 5 just got out ...

  • endersshadowendersshadow Member Posts: 296

    Originally posted by Robb2k03

     

     Originally posted by Nadriell

     

    "Can i get an auto attack hello?!"

                 no. Why? 1. it adds emersion and is more realistic and 2. its better then hitting 1 and sitting there waiting.  great system and it makes the gameplay more fun.

    1. I haven't seen my character get stronger, or bulk up, or become more efficent with his stamina. If your going to base a game off realisim, where is the rest of it? That's an excuse.

    2. I can't recall a single mmo where you hit one button and then do nothing. The special attacks are what consume "stamina."

    Having no Auto-attack creates a huge amount of "Button Mashing."

     

    "The UI is terrible, i cannot believe this?!"

                Based on what? World of Warcraft? Aion? EQ2? Vanguard? EQ1? Free Realms? DAOC? Warhammer? Champions? STO? CoH/CoV? Isteria? Merdian59? Asherons Call 1/2? AoC? all the others that follow this same UI... So its safe to say its a standardized way of playing?

    No the UI does not accomidate button mashing(except in combat?) and ease of access the first part of that "Button mashing" is because of the system i just explained above.

    Combat is long and drawn out Agreed

    and each action counts. Yeah, each time you spam that attack, to make it closer to an auto attack, toss in slow moving ability or two and your all set.

    the second, well its a japanese style interface. Besides FF11 what other japanese MMo's have the same UI?

    I personally don't mind it, and enjoy it actually most western people like the WoW style UI, but im sorry i've seen that style a million times, and i am sick of it, this is a nice change of pace. I bet that if I invented a new form of tire (wheel) for your automobile, that was a square, you would enjoy it because its a nice change of pace. It has a lot in common with the game to actually. It's less effective, less effecient, confusing, it makes people wonder who the heck made such a terrible design? But there's always those fanboys out there who will love it and defend it no matter how terrible it makes your car perform.

     

    "This reeks of a bad console import"

                 Yeah ...Can I be cheap and say I agree with this part of your answer to the question above?

    we PC players may suffer a little, but i am sure the PS3 players will suffer as well somewhere down the line... You just said you may suffer a little? But previously you state "this is a nice change of pace" - "I personally don't mind it"- "(i) enjoy it actually"  - "I am not upset by this." So let me get this straight, I can give you something, that makes you suffer a little bit, but you will enjoy it because its a change of pace, adds one sided emersion, button mashing in areas that are not efficent, slow loading in other areas that would be more efficent, and in the end you wouldnt be upset by it? I'm gonna be rich.

    If you made it this far thanks for reading the above comments. I will say - I am actually enjoying Final Fantasy 14, but it has many faults. It's kind of like a retarded puppy, that poops on your lap when ever its happy - it annoys you and makes you want to strangle it because it can't be trained like so many other puppies you've owned in the past - but its still cute in some ways.

    My point is - don't make excuses for things that clearly need to be changed or adjusted. Don't say you're fine with it one sentence and then the next admit to suffering. FF is a good game - it just needs some he

    If you made it this far thanks for reading the above comments. I will say - I am actually enjoying Final Fantasy 14, but it has many faults. It's kind of like a retarded puppy, that poops on your lap when ever its happy - it annoys you and makes you want to strangle it because it can't be trained like so many other puppies you've owned in the past - but its still cute in some ways.

    My point is - don't make excuses for things that clearly need to be changed or adjusted. Don't say you're fine with it one sentence and then the next admit to suffering. FF is a good game - it just needs some help.

    1. Do I think it needs an auto attack? Nah - but coming up with a better system then what it has would be ideal.

    2. Does the UI suck? Yeah - but mostly to extensive menu's and slowness. Can it be improved? Yes.

      3. Is it a bad console port? Yeah, and it seems they didnt learn their lesson from FFXI, but they have made some improvements over the previous game. But this shouldnt stop you from trying it out.

    I have to admit, this was a little hard on the eyes but I am glad I took the time to read it, you were cracking me up!

     

     

    And to the op, I like how you call people illiterate when you don't understand the difference between illiteracy and impatience.

  • KcebEnyawKcebEnyaw Member Posts: 29

    Man this was a painful thread. I hate when peoples stupidity is so painful I can't look away.. To all those who keep commenting that others should go learn about making UIs and some such BS I have only one thing to say to you. Game Design is a Talent not a Skill. Obviously if you actually had this talent you would be making games not bitching about the way people who actually have talent make thier games. A Controller will always be more intuitive than a KeyBoard for the simple fact that less buttons = faster reaction times. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simpley a PC Gaming Fan Boy who has no legitimate experience with control schemes. If you want a WoW UI go play wow. I hear Cataclysm is making it so you can play the whole game all over again the exact same way.. I for one like my games to be New and Different.

    BTW - I make games.. It's called Talent, go get some.

  • endersshadowendersshadow Member Posts: 296

    Originally posted by KcebEnyaw

    Man this was a painful thread. I hate when peoples stupidity is so painful I can't look away.. To all those who keep commenting that others should go learn about making UIs and some such BS I have only one thing to say to you. Game Design is a Talent not a Skill. Obviously if you actually had this talent you would be making games not bitching about the way people who actually have talent make thier games.

     Your post was painful to read because one of the guys that commented about making UIs ACTUALLY DOES THAT FOR A LIVING.

    Besides thats not even the point. Just because we dont design games doesnt mean we cant have an opinion on games that are made.

    The human race has opinions and preferences on a million things they themselves do not personally design.

     

    Do you know how to build houses? How about I throw you in a box and call it a mansion and then tell you to shut up when you complain? Because hey, you dont know how to build houses?

    You want a raw hamburger? Why not, your not a chef are you? 

    Or how about a tie died dress shirt with yellow sequins? Sorry you cant have an opinion because you arent a fashion designer.

    A Controller will always be more intuitive than a KeyBoard for the simple fact that less buttons = faster reaction times. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simpley a PC Gaming Fan Boy who has no legitimate experience with control schemes.

    For starters you alienated a good portion of your readers right there. Were all on a computer. A good many of us built our own pcs.

    Nothing is as fast and precise as a mouse and keyboard. Ask Professional FPS gamers if they would rather have a controller to play with in there competitions rather than a keyboard and mouse. Show me a remote where you can use all 10 fingers.

     

     

    I agree controllers are great and intuitive and all that but this is a game MADE FOR THE PC as well as the console. The fact that it does not work as well for both is inexcusable. What if the UI was catered more to pc users? Wouldnt the console crowd complain? And wait.. cant they get a mouse and keyboard to play with there PS3?

      If you want a WoW UI go play wow. I hear Cataclysm is making it so you can play the whole game all over again the exact same way.. I for one like my games to be New and Different.

    Let the court show that the defendant mentioned the pink elephant by name.

    Its a bad UI compared to just about any decent mmo, PRE WOW OR POST WOW.

    BTW - I make games.. It's called Talent, go get some.

    You also make bad rant posts. By your logic, you shouldnt post here because you arent an author. But hey look on the bright side, maybe you can write a program that can post for you.

  • Sober55Sober55 Member Posts: 28

    Originally posted by endersshadow

    Originally posted by KcebEnyaw

    Man this was a painful thread. I hate when peoples stupidity is so painful I can't look away.. To all those who keep commenting that others should go learn about making UIs and some such BS I have only one thing to say to you. Game Design is a Talent not a Skill. Obviously if you actually had this talent you would be making games not bitching about the way people who actually have talent make thier games.

     Your post was painful to read because one of the guys that commented about making UIs ACTUALLY DOES THAT FOR A LIVING.

    Besides thats not even the point. Just because we dont design games doesnt mean we cant have an opinion on games that are made.

    The human race has opinions and preferences on a million things they themselves do not personally design.

     

    Do you know how to build houses? How about I throw you in a box and call it a mansion and then tell you to shut up when you complain? Because hey, you dont know how to build houses?

    You want a raw hamburger? Why not, your not a chef are you? 

    Or how about a tie died dress shirt with yellow sequins? Sorry you cant have an opinion because you arent a fashion designer.

    A Controller will always be more intuitive than a KeyBoard for the simple fact that less buttons = faster reaction times. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simpley a PC Gaming Fan Boy who has no legitimate experience with control schemes.

    For starters you alienated a good portion of your readers right there. Were all on a computer. A good many of us built our own pcs.

    Nothing is as fast and precise as a mouse and keyboard. Ask Professional FPS gamers if they would rather have a controller to play with in there competitions rather than a keyboard and mouse. Show me a remote where you can use all 10 fingers.

     

     

    I agree controllers are great and intuitive and all that but this is a game MADE FOR THE PC as well as the console. The fact that it does not work as well for both is inexcusable. What if the UI was catered more to pc users? Wouldnt the console crowd complain? And wait.. cant they get a mouse and keyboard to play with there PS3?

      If you want a WoW UI go play wow. I hear Cataclysm is making it so you can play the whole game all over again the exact same way.. I for one like my games to be New and Different.

    Let the court show that the defendant mentioned the pink elephant by name.

    Its a bad UI compared to just about any decent mmo, PRE WOW OR POST WOW.

    BTW - I make games.. It's called Talent, go get some.

    You also make bad rant posts. By your logic, you shouldnt post here because you arent an author. But hey look on the bright side, maybe you can write a program that can post for you.

     Why would you take a perfectly reasonable post and try to disprove it so narrow-mindedly?  Okay, you win, it's a bad interface, it sucks, mouse and keyboard rocks. Now, we quit FF14 and play go play what? WoW? Many people are sick of WoW, why can't you understand. Guess what, people will still play FF14 because they are willing to trade something off to gain something else. Even if the interface is second best, which I am not sure about.

  • Miles-ProwerMiles-Prower Member Posts: 1,106

    Originally posted by Sober55

    Originally posted by endersshadow


    Originally posted by KcebEnyaw

    Man this was a painful thread. I hate when peoples stupidity is so painful I can't look away.. To all those who keep commenting that others should go learn about making UIs and some such BS I have only one thing to say to you. Game Design is a Talent not a Skill. Obviously if you actually had this talent you would be making games not bitching about the way people who actually have talent make thier games.

     Your post was painful to read because one of the guys that commented about making UIs ACTUALLY DOES THAT FOR A LIVING.

    Besides thats not even the point. Just because we dont design games doesnt mean we cant have an opinion on games that are made.

    The human race has opinions and preferences on a million things they themselves do not personally design.

     

    Do you know how to build houses? How about I throw you in a box and call it a mansion and then tell you to shut up when you complain? Because hey, you dont know how to build houses?

    You want a raw hamburger? Why not, your not a chef are you? 

    Or how about a tie died dress shirt with yellow sequins? Sorry you cant have an opinion because you arent a fashion designer.

    A Controller will always be more intuitive than a KeyBoard for the simple fact that less buttons = faster reaction times. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simpley a PC Gaming Fan Boy who has no legitimate experience with control schemes.

    For starters you alienated a good portion of your readers right there. Were all on a computer. A good many of us built our own pcs.

    Nothing is as fast and precise as a mouse and keyboard. Ask Professional FPS gamers if they would rather have a controller to play with in there competitions rather than a keyboard and mouse. Show me a remote where you can use all 10 fingers.

     

     

    I agree controllers are great and intuitive and all that but this is a game MADE FOR THE PC as well as the console. The fact that it does not work as well for both is inexcusable. What if the UI was catered more to pc users? Wouldnt the console crowd complain? And wait.. cant they get a mouse and keyboard to play with there PS3?

      If you want a WoW UI go play wow. I hear Cataclysm is making it so you can play the whole game all over again the exact same way.. I for one like my games to be New and Different.

    Let the court show that the defendant mentioned the pink elephant by name.

    Its a bad UI compared to just about any decent mmo, PRE WOW OR POST WOW.

    BTW - I make games.. It's called Talent, go get some.

    You also make bad rant posts. By your logic, you shouldnt post here because you arent an author. But hey look on the bright side, maybe you can write a program that can post for you.

     Why would you take a perfectly reasonable post and try to disprove it so narrow-mindedly?  Okay, you win, it's a bad interface, it sucks, mouse and keyboard rocks. Now, we quit FF14 and play go play what? WoW? Many people are sick of WoW, why can't you understand. Guess what, people will still play FF14 because they are willing to trade something off to gain something else. Even if the interface is second best, which I am not sure about.

    Wow, that's... that's almost cultist behavior right there. That has me worried, friend. Have you considered a shrink? O.o

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

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    Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread Member RarePosts: 6,781

    Originally posted by Sober55

     

     Why would you take a perfectly reasonable post and try to disprove it so narrow-mindedly?  Okay, you win, it's a bad interface, it sucks, mouse and keyboard rocks. Now, we quit FF14 and play go play what? WoW? Many people are sick of WoW, why can't you understand. Guess what, people will still play FF14 because they are willing to trade something off to gain something else. Even if the interface is second best, which I am not sure about.

    The only two MMORPGs on the planet are WoW and FFXIV. And when you rank all of the UIs in both of the MMORPGs on the planet, FFXIV comes in second place for PC.

     

    Comprehensive MMORPG UI Ranking

    1. WoW

    2. FFXIV

     

    I think you forgot about some stuff.

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293

    Folks are always willing to settle.

    Some folks arent... and some folks just actually like it the way it is.

    Personally... I think FFXIV's ui would be #3 on worst MMO ui ever right under Darkfall and Mortal Online...however...unlike those two games it has potential while the other two are pretty much hopeless though Aventurine does seem to be trying.

    Most of us however....could probably get over the UI if SE can just fix the rest of the problems that are driving customers away.


    1. Extreme lack of content of any kind other than leves

    2. Extreme lag during prime time...and bad lag during the rest

    3. A market / economy system thats worse than EQ1's

    4. Massive undocumentation on critical game elements. (anima, elements, favor, Guildpoints...etc)

    5. Grouping issues etc.
  • nickster29nickster29 Member Posts: 486

    Originally posted by Pyrostasis

    Folks are always willing to settle.

    Some folks arent... and some folks just actually like it the way it is.

    Personally... I think FFXIV's ui would be #3 on worst MMO ui ever right under Darkfall and Mortal Online...however...unlike those two games it has potential while the other two are pretty much hopeless though Aventurine does seem to be trying.

    Most of us however....could probably get over the UI if SE can just fix the rest of the problems that are driving customers away.


    1. Extreme lack of content of any kind other than leves

    2. Extreme lag during prime time...and bad lag during the rest

    3. A market / economy system thats worse than EQ1's

    4. Massive undocumentation on critical game elements. (anima, elements, favor, Guildpoints...etc)

    5. Grouping issues etc.

     

    That is how SE has always done things.  I have still yet to play FFXIV, but I remember playing FFXI for 5+ years from the time of PC release in North America.

    SE prefers that the player base spends time experimenting and uncovering this information for themselves rather than disclosing the information.  I found that the players do tend to do this quite well, and leads to a closer community for the sake of information sharing and whatnot.

    While I do understand the convenience of having all the information about every little system in a game well documented, I do  think the cryptic nature of the game also adds to the experience for the people who want to delve into a world where there are still mysteries.

  • PyrostasisPyrostasis Member UncommonPosts: 2,293

    Originally posted by nickster29

    Originally posted by Pyrostasis

    Folks are always willing to settle.

    Some folks arent... and some folks just actually like it the way it is.

    Personally... I think FFXIV's ui would be #3 on worst MMO ui ever right under Darkfall and Mortal Online...however...unlike those two games it has potential while the other two are pretty much hopeless though Aventurine does seem to be trying.

    Most of us however....could probably get over the UI if SE can just fix the rest of the problems that are driving customers away.


    1. Extreme lack of content of any kind other than leves

    2. Extreme lag during prime time...and bad lag during the rest

    3. A market / economy system thats worse than EQ1's

    4. Massive undocumentation on critical game elements. (anima, elements, favor, Guildpoints...etc)

    5. Grouping issues etc.

     

    That is how SE has always done things.  I have still yet to play FFXIV, but I remember playing FFXI for 5+ years from the time of PC release in North America.

    SE prefers that the player base spends time experimenting and uncovering this information for themselves rather than disclosing the information.  I found that the players do tend to do this quite well, and leads to a closer community for the sake of information sharing and whatnot.

    While I do understand the convenience of having all the information about every little system in a game well documented, I do  think the cryptic nature of the game also adds to the experience for the people who want to delve into a world where there are still mysteries.

    Fair enough.

    Im all for mysterys that are fun, exploring and such.

    I just find some of the "secrets" to be infuriating as I have to make game choices that will penalize me with out knowing in advance.

    Its like walking up to a hot chick who asks you to pick between two doors. Door A is a million bucks and Door B is 5 angry bikers who are going to kill you. A is a lot of fun...B sucks... being able to see behind those two doors to make an informed decision is a lot better than having your player base getting killed by bikers.

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