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Who else thinks no AH is a very stupid idea/Crafting system sucks.

Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk.

In Dungeon fighter online, they never had a Ah until recently and it got really annoying looking thru stalls trying to find a certan item, now that they have an auction house, prices are cheaper, stuff is more available, prices have stablized.

Anyway I just cannot see any resonable reason to not have a auction house in a mmorpg now a days. if their is a way to search well, sorry for this post, my PC could barely hit 10 fps in the game even with everything set to min, would have been nice if I could have adjusted view range and suchthough I may have missed this setting somehow.

Now lets move on the crafting, am I the only one who finds it stupid that to make some of the sub componnets for say a weapon, takes mutiple diff craft jobs, and sometimes 2-3x the amount of skill needed than to put the stupid item together? Would suck if after all that time you failed the final product and lost most of the stuff and had to restart from scratch.

Not trying to troll I just have some concerns thats all, also if you can't be constructive please don't bother posting.

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Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,554

    Disagree.

     

    I'm all for no auction house. From what I understand Final Fantasy's system could use some tweaking but If auction houses were abolished I would consider it a good thing.

    I prefer trade between players, moving stores to better areas, etc.




  • Shoko_LiedShoko_Lied Member UncommonPosts: 2,188

    I don't like this idea either. It makes it impossible to have a set economy. Certain items should sell for roughly certain prices. When some joe bloke can sell his items for 50 times more than another guy that you will NEVER see. How does anyone know whether they are being ripped off or not? Nobody knows because theirs no "Economy"!!!

  • EdeusEdeus Member CommonPosts: 506

    Didn't they say they were adding it later, and the space for it is already in game?  And even if they did add one, itll be seperate for each city, and until the main hub city is determined, you'll have to travel around looking for stuff anyway?

     

    But it does annoy me because I can't compare prices as easily, and hunting down some random mule gets tedius.

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,554

    Originally posted by denshing

    I don't like this idea either. It makes it impossible to have a set economy. Certain items should sell for roughly certain prices. When some joe bloke can sell his items for 50 times more than another guy that you will NEVER see. How does anyone know whether they are being ripped off or not? Nobody knows because theirs no "Economy"!!!

    Well, in a different system you would check the other stores. At some point you would have to make a decision "buy or not to buy".

    However, I understand there are some issues with their system that makes shopping somewhat challenging.




  • NekrataalNekrataal Member Posts: 557

    Originally posted by scythe99

    Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk.

    In Dungeon fighter online, they never had a Ah until recently and it got really annoying looking thru stalls trying to find a certan item, now that they have an auction house, prices are cheaper, stuff is more available, prices have stablized.

    Anyway I just cannot see any resonable reason to not have a auction house in a mmorpg now a days. if their is a way to search well, sorry for this post, my PC could barely hit 10 fps in the game even with everything set to min, would have been nice if I could have adjusted view range and suchthough I may have missed this setting somehow.

    Now lets move on the crafting, am I the only one who finds it stupid that to make some of the sub componnets for say a weapon, takes mutiple diff craft jobs, and sometimes 2-3x the amount of skill needed than to put the stupid item together? Would suck if after all that time you failed the final product and lost most of the stuff and had to restart from scratch.

    Not trying to troll I just have some concerns thats all, also if you can't be constructive please don't bother posting.

     Oh really, tell me what part of your post is contructive in any shape or form?

    The game is already out( well almost )... Why are you still whining?!

    Not trolling... yeah right.

  • MuruganMurugan Member Posts: 1,494

    Originally posted by scythe99

    Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk.

    In Dungeon fighter online, they never had a Ah until recently and it got really annoying looking thru stalls trying to find a certan item, now that they have an auction house, prices are cheaper, stuff is more available, prices have stablized.

    Anyway I just cannot see any resonable reason to not have a auction house in a mmorpg now a days. if their is a way to search well, sorry for this post, my PC could barely hit 10 fps in the game even with everything set to min, would have been nice if I could have adjusted view range and suchthough I may have missed this setting somehow.

    Now lets move on the crafting, am I the only one who finds it stupid that to make some of the sub componnets for say a weapon, takes mutiple diff craft jobs, and sometimes 2-3x the amount of skill needed than to put the stupid item together? Would suck if after all that time you failed the final product and lost most of the stuff and had to restart from scratch.

    Not trying to troll I just have some concerns thats all, also if you can't be constructive please don't bother posting.

    75% of Auction house type systems are actually harmful to the economy, encouraging under cutting and monopolization of items by the first to reach max level in that craft.

     

    86.3% of people will remember names of crafters (and their retainers) and attempt to return to them to find similiar items.  72% of people think that it is easy to find crafters if you look around the city (at the guilds, or the repair npc being popular places where they congregate to craft).

     

    100% of FFXIV actually has an Auction House in the game which the developers have said they plan to implement at some point once they see how the players are using the economy, and how they can implement it in a way that allows more accessability while at the same time not hurting those who like to craft.

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,282

    Originally posted by denshing

    I don't like this idea either. It makes it impossible to have a set economy. Certain items should sell for roughly certain prices. When some joe bloke can sell his items for 50 times more than another guy that you will NEVER see. How does anyone know whether they are being ripped off or not? Nobody knows because theirs no "Economy"!!!

    Tell that to East Commonlands / North Freeport.     /ooc WTS bag of goods in KOS tunnel!

  • maskedtearsmaskedtears Member UncommonPosts: 345

    Originally posted by denshing

    I don't like this idea either. It makes it impossible to have a set economy. Certain items should sell for roughly certain prices. When some joe bloke can sell his items for 50 times more than another guy that you will NEVER see. How does anyone know whether they are being ripped off or not? Nobody knows because theirs no "Economy"!!!

    By comparing the prices to that of the NPCs. When you go and check the price for an item with an npc the item is then listed with that price in your inventory. 

     

    That's what I based how much I'm willing to buy things for. I always buy lower than the NPCs and I always sell for more than it cost me... so if I say caught a fix which cost me 3 gil for the bait. I just need to sell it for over 3 gil to make a proft. I think check an NPC and find that this here fish is worth 537gil to them to them That's a LOT of money. So then I check to see how much I could buy it from an npc for... say it's 600... so I sell it for 550 and call it a day. 

     

    That's what people do in the real world. If you are too lazy then honestly just npc all your crap until they add an auction house or some service you want. 

     

    Also you don't have to waste your time buying things. Just set your retainer out to buy it. You say how much you are willing to pay and people who think it's fair will sell for that price. 

    You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.

  • geldonyetichgeldonyetich Member Posts: 1,340

    Regarding the auction house, I'm relatively on the fence.


    • On one hand, I tihnk we need a better way to find where in the player economy the items are that we need.

    • On the other hand, an auction house is a bit less immersive and more non-personable than an alternative system.

    This is more or more or less what the developers are saying, too, and they're looking into an alternate solution.


     


    Originally posted by scythe99

    Now lets move on the crafting, am I the only one who finds it stupid that to make some of the sub componnets for say a weapon, takes mutiple diff craft jobs, and sometimes 2-3x the amount of skill needed than to put the stupid item together? Would suck if after all that time you failed the final product and lost most of the stuff and had to restart from scratch.



     


    No, you won't be the only one who finds this dificult, however, I won't see that difficulty diminished.  I imagine that, once there's an easier way to find the component, you feel a significantly lesser complaint.  Right now, outside of the rather dificult distributon method, you're stuck either doing it all yourself or joining a linkshell of may specialists.

  • Yavin_PrimeYavin_Prime Member Posts: 233

    For some reason people in asia (I say this because that is where games like FF14 are coming from) have a problem with AH and love to look through stalls. Personally I agree, I hate the idea 100%. I loved UOs personal house/store idea and EQ2's broker idea where you could find a shop that had what you needed... if you decided to go out to the stor you could skip over the broker fees.

    I believe either a broker or AH system should be in any MMO that wants a strong crafting community. Not having on is going to force people to isolate and sell only in their own communities. I suppose what they're trying to do is make it so as a vendor/crafter you advertise your wears and people will build up loyalty to you. In the AH system often you could care less who is selling the iteam as long as its a fair price... its pure raw capitalism without loyalty to a "brand". In the eastern system they encourage you to build up loyalty to your favorite brand aka player. That way when you need your next sword or wand you just send them a mail and put in an order.

    Funny thing is a broker system is the same thing but with less work. You go to the broker, the tell you who is selling what and then you build up loyalty to the player who has the lowest price. So in my mind having a broker would make both schools of thought relatively happy.

  • maskedtearsmaskedtears Member UncommonPosts: 345

    Originally posted by Yavin_Prime

    For some reason people in asia (I say this because that is where games like FF14 are coming from) have a problem with AH and love to look through stalls. Personally I agree, I hate the idea 100%. I loved UOs personal house/store idea and EQ2's broker idea where you could find a shop that had what you needed... if you decided to go out to the stor you could skip over the broker fees.

    I believe either a broker or AH system should be in any MMO that wants a strong crafting community. Not having on is going to force people to isolate and sell only in their own communities. I suppose what they're trying to do is make it so as a vendor/crafter you advertise your wears and people will build up loyalty to you. In the AH system often you could care less who is selling the iteam as long as its a fair price... its pure raw capitalism without loyalty to a "brand". In the eastern system they encourage you to build up loyalty to your favorite brand aka player. That way when you need your next sword or wand you just send them a mail and put in an order.

    Funny thing is a broker system is the same thing but with less work. You go to the broker, the tell you who is selling what and then you build up loyalty to the player who has the lowest price. So in my mind having a broker would make both schools of thought relatively happy.

    Especially in this game where the items quality varies based on how well the crafting was done... Consumer loyalty is extremely important. I'd rather pay out the butt for something with near perfect quality than some cheap shoddy junk that has barely any quality. 

    You wanted my time, so I played you. You wanted my money, I forked it over. You wanted my soul, I gave it willingly. Not to complain... but when do I get my end of the deal? And no, I don't want your flippin' carrot. If you can't do that give me back my youth and keep the change. Why don't you try chasing your own damn carrot for a change? I'll gladly hold the stick.

  • Miles-ProwerMiles-Prower Member Posts: 1,106

    I don't think it's a stupid idea if they can make it work; however, FFXIV has intense graphics and navigating through bartering areas can be stressful on a Computer that barely meets minimal requirements. I think having Auction Houses spread throughout a city would encourage people to migrate and therefore contribute to less congestion.

    I still think they should just make a billboard or job posting and allow people to request items and have them fulfilled by other players. Sort of like a.. "Backwards" Auction House.

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

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  • DisastormDisastorm Member Posts: 318

    The crafting system and non-auction house is very old school so I'm a big fan.  IMO I think the crafting system in FF14 is actually incredibly good, and the market system probably makes all the old school mmo players incredibly happy.  I honestly prefer these to an AH, no lie.

  • Kaynos1972Kaynos1972 Member Posts: 2,316

    Well it goes with all the rest.  That game is a huge timesink to start with, why not make trading the same ?  I mean come on, look at the game mechanic, everything takes forever to do, killing a mob takes minutes, gathering  takes forever, same for crafting, having an AH will make trading easy, this cant be.   I really dont get what peoples see in this game, it's one of the worst asian grinder ever, it makes games like AION looks great.

  • WolfenprideWolfenpride Member Posts: 3,988

    Originally posted by scythe99

    Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk.

     

     Maybe my experience with mmo's was limited before WoW, but every game I know of, including EQ, L2, GW, and DAOC did not have an auction house, and those games amongst many others worked perfectly well as you can well see.

    As for crafting requiring more sub components, it's all about adding difficulty/depth to the process. Some like it harder, some don't obviously. Considering they're suppose to be a class in their own right, i'm happy to see crafting as it is. The class would be terrifingly boring if crafts were auto-completed and required very basic materials to create.

  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,282

    Originally posted by Wolfenpride

    Originally posted by scythe99

    Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk.

     

     Maybe my experience with mmo's was limited before WoW, but every game I know of, including EQ, L2, GW, and DAOC did not have an auction house, and those games amongst many others worked perfectly well as you can well see.

    True. FFXI was the first mmo that I played which had an auction house. You can probably bet you'll see one in FFXIV eventually too, SE just wanted to see how this goes. (They did the same thing with XI).

  • Miles-ProwerMiles-Prower Member Posts: 1,106

    Originally posted by Wolfenpride

    Originally posted by scythe99

    Auction houses have been around long before WoW and such, I am trying to figure out why the hell SE is not including one, I can't see a reason other than throwing in another bliant timesink. Looking thru possibly hundreds of player shops with no way to search for 1 item is just total and utter fail. Its bascally making something inconvient by not having one. Not before you go on about social this and that, 95% of these shop runners are going to be afk, or have a retainer set to sell their junk.

     

     Maybe my experience with mmo's was limited before WoW, but every game I know of, including EQ, L2, GW, and DAOC did not have an auction house, and those games amongst many others worked perfectly well as you can well see.

    I suppose it could also be said that they didn't have cars a long time ago, but people got around perfectly fine before then, too =P.

    Edit: Also, 600th post!

     

    ~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

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  • Laughing-manLaughing-man Member UncommonPosts: 3,645

    Originally posted by Aguitha

    Well it goes with all the rest.  That game is a huge timesink to start with, why not make trading the same ?  I mean come on, look at the game mechanic, everything takes forever to do, killing a mob takes minutes, gathering  takes forever, same for crafting, having an AH will make trading easy, this cant be.   I really dont get what peoples see in this game, it's one of the worst asian grinder ever, it makes games like AION looks great.

    Over a minute to kill a mob?

    Everything takes forever to do?

    Are you accidently posting in the wrong forums?  This isn't FFXI or EQ1, this is FFXIV.

  • epoqepoq Member UncommonPosts: 393

    Hey you might as well just craft everything you want yourself.  It'll probably take equally as long gathering the materials and failing the crafting multiple times until you get it right as it does sorting through a million vendor stalls in the bazaar quarter.  It's a primitive system that needs to be dealt with immediately.  They say they put the fatigue system in as to approach the normal level curve "time sink" a new way, well going through a thousand vendors when it takes 5 seconds to navigate through the stupid menu UI and browse each persons wares is a time sink IMHO.  A big one. 

  • WoW_RefugeeWoW_Refugee Member Posts: 80

    Originally posted by Jimmydean

    Tell that to East Commonlands / North Freeport.     /ooc WTS bag of goods in KOS tunnel!

     God that was such a cool feeling. I used to spend most of my Sunday afternoons heading to the tunnel to shop. It actually felt like shopping, too. talking to other players, haggling with them, arranging trades of items plus coin for something you really *really* wanted...

    But yeah, the original poster is probably right. The current system means actually having to y'know, remember stuff...spend time looking for what you want. Taking your time. Who the hell wants that?

    As for "How do you know you're being ripped off"? Simple. If something costs more than you think it's worth to you, personally, it's a rip off. otherwise, if you find what you want and it's at a price you find you can afford, it isn't. Hell that's how I buy stuff in real life.

    Simple.

  • gostlygostly Member UncommonPosts: 134

    I like the auction house in FFXI, it feels more like an AH than most games. I just hope they do it the same way in FFXIV if/when they implement the auction house.

  • RaxeonRaxeon Member UncommonPosts: 2,248

    There will be a ah within a few months

  • NekrataalNekrataal Member Posts: 557

    Originally posted by Aguitha

    Well it goes with all the rest.  That game is a huge timesink to start with, why not make trading the same ?  I mean come on, look at the game mechanic, everything takes forever to do, killing a mob takes minutes, gathering  takes forever, same for crafting, having an AH will make trading easy, this cant be.   I really dont get what peoples see in this game, it's one of the worst asian grinder ever, it makes games like AION looks great.

    Very simple... A hobby. You know the thing you do in your free time, the thing you like.

    Yup, thats right, I see an awesome virtual world where I can spend some free time doing stuff & meet new people from around the world. This is called being part of a community... You know the thing MMO's were originaly all about.

     

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    Being used to an AH and the idea I'm getting a good price for whatever I'm buying or selling, I have to admit it bothered me.

    However then I realized that this is the kind of game dynamic that encourages positive player interaction. In the long term, despite it being frustrating for those who want a thoughless economy, it adds tremendous depth to the game. And that is good.

  • EricDanieEricDanie Member Posts: 2,238

    No AH isn't a stupid idea, you're merely conditioned to think AH are necessary for games when they are actually design choices. A "realistic" AH system would charge a very high tax rate making it appealing to also find items through trade channels or whatever other alternate methods there are in the game.

    The games I had the most fun crafting and trading were the ones with no AH - UO, Ragnarok Online.

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