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Console MMO's, Why The Hate?

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  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    Because when an MMO is designed to run on a console, it gets simplified, dumbed down or gimped.  Really if it wasn't for that one issue, I wouldn't really care. I think its reasonable for PC players to be resentful towards consoles when they're favorite games have their quality reduced to meet a need that they're not interested in.

    Examples:

    UI for FFXIV

    Combat, instancing, zoning for AoC.

     

     

     

  • WarmakerWarmaker Member UncommonPosts: 2,243

    Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe

    Originally posted by Warmaker


    Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe


    *snip to save thread space*

    1) I didn't lose the point.  You threw out the thing about Strategy earlier in the thread.  Someone commented on it, I followed up on it. That's where I jumped in.

    2) There are some genres that fly on one platform and some that don't.  That I will agree.  Fighting games for instance don't fly on the PC and I was quite pleasantly surprised Capcom going through the lengths with the PC version of SF4 (to Capcom's credit, they even did a good RE5 port worthy of the PC's capabilities.  And I still remember their Street Fighter Alpha 2 attempt in the 90s).  But if you want a Strat. game like Total War on the console, no I don't see that happening.  And I will go on to say that they technically can't do it either, not like the current PC versions and will have to reign back on a bunch of features and capabilities.

    3) As for Madden Football games not flying on the PC?  So?  EA did try for quite a while trying to push the series on the PC but it just didn't happen with the crowd.  PC players don't go for the Annual Milking for a single title EA does with their Madden playerbase.

    4) As for the controls, sure you threw out they can have peripherals.  I also brought up earlier in the thread that they can do way more than they did compared to even the PS2/XBOX days.  But tell me this:

    Why, oh why, when we get Crossplatform releases (console + PC) do we still get badly compromised PC versions that are held back due to the Consoles?

    This comes up quite a bit when you read about a bunch of reviews and comments about Crossplatform stuff.  Features implemented in a PC game that would be good with the Consoles but are nonsensical for the PC.  The PC versions being held back due to the Consoles.  That is a sore point with alot of PC players when you are talking about Crossplatform games.  There are very, very few dev teams that will actually make the PC version a worthwhile port instead of a lazy port.  Some go through great lengths like Capcom, but oftenly they don't.  And that's been going on for years and years now.

    1) Actually, you stepped in the middle of conversation without reading everything that came before the point that you jumped in. That's kind of understandable since Axehilt didn't quote the post he was responding to. Axe has since aknowledged his error, punctuating that you were lost before you ever jumped into the mosh.

    2) Believe it or don't, most fighting games end up on PCs in Asian countries. Guilty Gear and Blazblue both got PC ports in Japan. If you keep up on the dojin game scene, you'll notice that most of them have gamepad support right out of the box. Apparently, the Asian market doesn't distinguish between the PC and console market the same way that we do. Seriously, who want's to play a fighting game with a keyboard. If you want an example of why fighting games are not made with the keyboard and mouse in mind, check out the absolutely gawd awful sequel to One Must Fall.

    3) Actually, I think that EA is missing a huge opportunity here. Madden on the PC could actually be sold as a subscription serverice. The mouse opens up doors for easily building a custom playbook, and EA could charge anextra service fee for Madden as a fantasy football league. We can piss and moan about EA being greedy with Madden, but they are saints compared to what they could be on the PC. Just check out FIFA Online 2 if you don't believe me.

    4) But the question is really where do you draw the line. The optimum set up would be to allow players to choose their preferred control scheme on whatever platform they use. People who like gamepads could use them on the PC and people who like the keyboard and mouse (or SplitFish) could use them on consoles. This isn't a major programming task either. But I understand the logic behind not doing this. It boils down to supporting non-standard hardware. With Games like DJ Hero, you get a packed in peripherial. But if a keyboard and mouse isn't packed in with the game, why waste the money on adding support for it. I still argue in favor of including Gamepad support in single player action games for the PC though.

    Graphics are a personal thing though. I personally don't care as much as I used to. If a game has PS3 level graphics then it just means that it'll run smooth on my system. The number of technophiles that can drop $3000 on a monster game rig every year is so small as to not matter to anyone. Ask the developers of Crysis how much money is to be made from shooting for the highest end hardware on the market.

    1) Cool enough.

    2) The funny thing is that even before Microsoft's push on the first XBOX, hand controllers have been available for the PC.  But yes, Fighting games are a rare premium on the PC with Capcom being the only developer of note even trying to do something on it.  I would like to see more of them on the PC, most especially because I'd like to see what those devs can do with what the platform can offer.

    3) It's just whatever idea EA is doing for Madden on the PC has never flown.  Even with buddies in the console crowd, some of them question why they have for fork out good cash every year for minor updates.  IMO, that problem is exemplified more with the mentality of PC gamers.  You have to acknowledge that the PC gaming culture can use games for alot longer (sometimes due to mods).  But to annually fork out a full game price for a roster update and minor gimmicks?  Nah, that doesn't sit well, at least for me.

    4) Just to add on to my problem with the crossplatform releases are these... Coming across the ones that the PC game cannot go to a higher resolution.  Taking no advantage of the controls of a PC.  Irritating to find out instructions are printed out with 360/PS3 controls in mind, down to telling a PC user to hit the damn Triangle button, and also finding out controls are actually very limited for PC customization.  What I've gotten at times is a flow of controls that makes sense for a hand controller but makes life totally miserable with a mouse and keyboard, because the devs were too lazy to actually use the freedom granted by a mouse and keyboard.  Also, you will see many review comments on PC versions complaining about some ports using a console style of save points, something the PC crowd generally doesn't like.

    As for the graphics, it doesn't need to be Crysis level, and yeah, most PC gamers don't have those ultrapowerhouse rigs that you see ads and reviews for and sell for like $4k or more.  But my rig can still do alot more than the 360 and PS3.

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • Jimmy_ScytheJimmy_Scythe Member CommonPosts: 3,586

    Originally posted by Warmaker

    Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe


    Originally posted by Warmaker


    Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe


    *snip to save thread space*
    4) Just to add on to my problem with the crossplatform releases are these... Coming across the ones that the PC game cannot go to a higher resolution.  Taking no advantage of the controls of a PC.  Irritating to find out instructions are printed out with 360/PS3 controls in mind, down to telling a PC user to hit the damn Triangle button, and also finding out controls are actually very limited for PC customization.  What I've gotten at times is a flow of controls that makes sense for a hand controller but makes life totally miserable with a mouse and keyboard, because the devs were too lazy to actually use the freedom granted by a mouse and keyboard.  Also, you will see many review comments on PC versions complaining about some ports using a console style of save points, something the PC crowd generally doesn't like.

    As for the graphics, it doesn't need to be Crysis level, and yeah, most PC gamers don't have those ultrapowerhouse rigs that you see ads and reviews for and sell for like $4k or more.  But my rig can still do alot more than the 360 and PS3.

    A sloppy port is sloppy port, regardless of which direction it goes. Red Alert 3 is head and shoulders above the Genesis port of the original Command & Conquer, or even the Nintendo 64 port of Starcraft, but that's only becasue they took the control issues into consideration from the outset. That doesn't mean that the game was "dumbed down," PC gamers can still use hotkeys, waypoints, groups, etc., just as effectively as any other RTS. Let me also remind you that the number of units available and number of maps were also comparible to previous, PC exclusive, games in the series.

    Likewise, console to PC ports can be absolutely atrocious when you don't consider the PC platform. I don't think I've ever enjoyed a third person action game on the PC with a keyboard and mouse. I'm fine with KB+mouse in FPS games. But put in third person and I take a drive to motion sick city. Turning feels more natural with a controller in third person. Of course, that's just my opinion.

    Finally, there are games that I think both console and PC gamers can co-exist in harmony. Torchlight would be perfect for this. The PC gamers could click on the mouse and use hotkeys all day long while console players could take direct control of their character and mash buttons. The three button interface of the combat, main attack, special ability, and weapon switch, makes it really easy to translate to gamepade. See also Champions of Norath, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, and Hunter: The Reckoning.

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