I resubbed and played up thru level 30 on Starsider. Good population and fun helpful community. Attended several RP/story events. I'm not going to continue playing because I can't take the buggy animations and lag (or whatever it is). Upsetting since I can run Age of Conan on higher settings with less lag, even in raids. But I had some SWG nostaligia and definitely enjoyed a month of play.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
I tried it out during the steam deals for about 6 bucks.It is the most clunkiest MMO i have ever played,Sure its ten years old so i can forgive the graphics although i cant forgive sony for never updating them.
For instance in all those 10 years ppl seem to have been eable to jump.But there is not even a jump animation for it ,your char simply pops off the ground running in the air and whats worse,in reality your char does not even leave the ground since he will still colide with objects below him )
^not even that has been updated to remotly look ok after 10 years.The market place is hell if you are acustomed to Eve or aion or most other MMO's.
Originally posted by Tetters Originally posted by PyrateLV
(lots of jerks on Bria though)
Thanks for all the feedback guys, one day I might just try the free trial and see whats going on for myself. The quoted comment did sadden me though. As an ex denizen of Lowca, the one thing you could bet your corvette on was that SWG players were helpful and nice. The game may have been broken and buggy from the start, but it really didnt matter in the scheme of things, because the people around you were great and made the game great Lowca was great, apart from FEDS and GOON. Problem now is now that most of Lowca transferred to Flurry and Flurry can be quite hostile. The amount of helpful players is an endangered species on Flurry, let alone a lively community. Ever read the Flurry forums, it's loaded with flame wars, for some reason people don't get along with each other even in the same faction (we've had problems with other Imps when trying to do some pvp).
Thanks for all the feedback guys, one day I might just try the free trial and see whats going on for myself. The quoted comment did sadden me though. As an ex denizen of Lowca, the one thing you could bet your corvette on was that SWG players were helpful and nice. The game may have been broken and buggy from the start, but it really didnt matter in the scheme of things, because the people around you were great and made the game great
Lowca was great, apart from FEDS and GOON. Problem now is now that most of Lowca transferred to Flurry and Flurry can be quite hostile. The amount of helpful players is an endangered species on Flurry, let alone a lively community. Ever read the Flurry forums, it's loaded with flame wars, for some reason people don't get along with each other even in the same faction (we've had problems with other Imps when trying to do some pvp).
Flurry flame wars??? Who woulda thunk it?
Flurry has always had it's problem children no question...I was never into PvP so I can't really comment on that part...But I do know at one time it was an awesome Server with plenty of helpful Folks on the PvE side...I met some incredible people in my years on Flurry...Many of whom I still Game with today...I'm sure it's nothing like that anymore...and that's a shame...But things change...
To sum it up, Star Wars Galaxies has many dead servers. You have about 3 Heavy servers (Starsider, Flurry and a Euro server) , If you want real facts on how SWG is doing, contact SOE ask for a 3 day trial so you can use your character and see how the game is. Go to create a new toon in your prime time (let's say 7pm on a friday) and look at all the servers that say "Very Light" to give you a indication how the game is.
Badger can claim SOE and SWG are riding high and doing extremely well (you know he wears rose colored glasses) but the fact remains SWG is not doing well. The only uplift in players is when a event comes up and players remain for a month, complete the event quests to gain tokens, buy what they need and update their housing maintenance and cancel. Look at all of SOE's updates and events and you see players return for a month and then servers go back into low numbers. Now while I do agree only 3 servers are highly populated it will never be what Pre-cu levels were and never will. Best thing SOE can do is merge all the very light servers into one server and only have 4 servers for SWG reducing maintenance and time to update those dead servers. If a server gets too populated then open a new one.
Best advice, get a trial or ask SOE to grant your account a 3 day trial and look around, check the servers and see which ones are only active and then make a toon on those servers which are really active to see the whole picture. I said this before and I will say it again, for SOE to save Star Wars Galaxies ( Financially) is to break down and open 1 classic server. Make a big announcement about a SWG Anniversary classic server and bring it up to the Trials of Obi-Wan (Mustafar) patch and leave it be. In 2 months you will see that server pass the other servers in population. SOE can make money and continue to fund the NGE servers.
One other thing, when is SOE going to get things right? When are we going to see a Bespin Cloud city add-on? or Dagobah? Hell even another planet to use as a place to make more cities. Instead the crew at SOE are doing Kashyykian Tree Houses...TREEHOUSES?!?!?! Where is your direction SOE? Hey badger tell your buddies in SOE to remember that SWG's timeline is in the events from A New Hope and The Empire Strikes back, you can't tell me they can't add Lando since he was a new custome.
To help people understand how SWG is doing fiscally, you should run some numbers.
Last reports I read said that SOE was grossing about 10mil a year from SWG. Even if only half of that is gross proffit, they they are making bank for something they did 7 years ago.
At the current sub rate, this is about 56k active / paying accounts every month. For SWG, that does not sound like a stretch at all.
Throw on top of that the cash they get from the TCG, and the fact the game has problably been in he black since 2006, SWG has made plenty of money.
I have played non-stop since 09/2004. Played through the CU and the NGE changes with out quitting. Was on Corbantis and moved to Flurry.
SWG, as a mature MMO, has plenty to offer for PVE, PVP, Crafting and RP. I would challenge anyone to provide a feature to feature comparison to anyother MMO to find at least one that offers as much. This would include the crafting.
SWG is what you make of it and I have loadsof fun still to this day.
That said, I agree that there are issues and that SWG is way far from close to perfect. However I have to ask, what MMO out there is perfect that offers at least a similar set of game features for combat, housing and crafting?
Also agree that LA /SOE are not being truly honest about why they have such major lag issues that results in clunky graphics. While some from SOE fan faire have reported that SOE has kept servers up to date, no details about chip sets and configurations was provided. Just some explanation that added more servers won't fix lag cause more servers add boundries that cause lag. Then one has to ask, don't you SOE have the latest chip sets with multiple cores and cores don't add boundries?
I'm not buying the story that SOE has the latest and greatest server hardware for a minute and their botched spagetti code is likely a bigger problem.
Also lame as fark that a jerk off like smed is allowed to continue to run SOE into the ground. Agree that if SOE cannot retain good talent, they are doomed and will fail in the next 5 years under smed's continued fail leadership.
SOE needs to clean house and find some management who actually have a clue about gaming. The current glorified beancounters have demolished SOE's reputation and all of their flagship games.
John Smedley is to MMOs what Tony Hayward is to Gulf wildlife protection.
SOE needs to clean house and find some management who actually have a clue about gaming. The current glorified beancounters have demolished SOE's reputation and all of their flagship games.
John Smedley is to MMOs what Tony Hayward is to Gulf wildlife protection.
I could not agree more.
Sadly, I don't think this is limited to strictly SOE any longer...
It seems the entire industry is moving towards this type of "service" where MMOs are little more than fast cash grabs, therefore the bigger title games (Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, DC Comics) become the best vehicle to sell to an already established market.
This (gaming) is a 20 BILLION dollar a year industry, nearly double that of motion pictures (10.65 billion), and it's being treated as little more than the latest craze in the toy industry.
Time for these executives to wake up and realize this isn't a game...err...
I stopped playing after CU,But I did go back a few years after the NGE only to get bummed. I remember promising I would never go back. It was a strange thing to see SWG after they implemented the NGE.All the old houses were still there from my guild's. smoking harvesters all over place. it was creepy. some poor guy asking for help and he was a CL 80 I was a 30 something.You could see then that it had nothing to offer anymore.
I remember the server being so packed someone was always on. truly the game had so much potential. So many went to wow,And entire guilds showed up to wow,and it offered linear game play,limited crafting profession's. but it had people, and thats what made people show up. I'm in cata beta right now have been for a good while. it is getting so kiddy like in play. can't imagine why a game company would like to cater to children but money talk's. I for one would love to see a game made in the style of SWG pre-Cu! but more balanced and not in sony's hands.
I am the current SWG Jedi Profession Senator. (on my 2nd term now)
I have 3 active accounts and 6x CL90 toons. (Jedi, BH, Commando, Smuggler, Entertainer, Officer)
I've played every profession at least once.
I am part of a mid-sized and healthy guild (DotA) with mature and well behaved players. Most are my good friends.
My guild and most of my previous server (Scylla) move to Starsider during the free character transfer offering.. best move we ever made.
Starsider has a healthy population of players of all kinds.. crafter, entertainers, PvP, PvE, pilots.. but not always busy but rarely dead (unless you are talking 3am EST.
The game is alive.. the community is alive.. and there are still small but important game updates happening from time to time that patch up long-outstanding issues or add a bit of new 'stuff' to do.
There is lots of stuff I have not done yet.. SWG has a lot of legacy content and repeatable content (like raids) for high-end items & collections.
The development team has been the best I've seen in 4 years.. at listening and performing small changes .. but changes that really matter in terms of game-fun.
The lag that happens in invasions and PvP can be challenging.. just be aware its not always smooth sailing.
What you will find:
Housing Options.. still the only game I know that allows the level of detail in housing/city/decorating options
Active Galactic Civil War (GCW).. leaderboards.. battlefields.. invasions.. free roaming PvP.
Spaceflight.. if you like piloting... its still there and the ships are the best balanced they have been in years.
Helpful players & Jerks.. they are in every game if you look for them. I only spend time with the helpful players.
Crafting with a Purpose. Its not easy to start from scratch.. but still possible and still integrated into the very fiber of the game.
Jedi, X-Wings, TIE fighters, Hoth Speeders, AT&ATs.. all still there.. ready for you to hop in and start playing with them.
Beastmatery.. back and still fun to do.
As far as game 'health'... I cannot comment because I am not privy to SOE profits.. which I doubt anyone here is.
As far as 'worthwhile'.. I think so. SWTOR is not a SWG replacement... its a different game that will not be a Sandbox style like SWG and likely a lot less social/community orientated (no crafters, no entertainers, no housing, no player cities).
So if you are wondering if there is anyone to play Star Wars with on Galaxies and have fun.. the answer is YES... provided you pick the right server and not one of the dead ones.
Starsider, Flurry, Chilastra, Bria are safe bets for community size.
So if you are wondering if there is anyone to play Star Wars with on Galaxies and have fun.. the answer is YES... provided you pick the right server and not one of the dead ones.
Starsider, Flurry, Chilastra, Bria are safe bets for community size.
I played about 16 months ago for about 3 months then quit -- I kept the account going and about a month ago I rejoined the game.
You have some interesting points and your statements show some of what I've suspected; as in some decent folks in small pockets out there 'somewhere' in the game. I actually came to this forum to see where a decent server might be. The prices on the one I'm at... They are a bit steep compared to a couple other servers I checked out and, being a broke newbie type, I can level up easily enough but affording to gear up to play at the prices that are running on my current server... I won't do that AFK botting stuff so I short myself a bit for income.
Starting out these days:
The first , and most noticeable thing, is the silence. Deathly silence everywhere in the game as a new player.
The chat channel system is cryptic in an antiquated fashion and very difficult to use so few use the 'public' channels -- across a week I saw no more than 4 brief discussions in the pilots channel on one server, and it was stated as a very active channel for that server -- old post I guess.
The game is now for 90th level chars and their alts.
The prices in the game are built around this and the knowledge shared among the player base is from veterans to veterans who are playing a new alt class they have no clue how to play -- see AFK leveling under macro bots from hell.
Macro bots from hell.
Q&A's on how to macro AFK grind through the game -- on the official boards with discussions on the topic. Buff bots parked here or there. The existing player base would go ballistic if they tried to change this -- medic and officer buffs? What about an AFK entertainer to cure fatigue? Traders actually having to HAND sample on Mustifar vs just park a bot?!?! Yeah, bots from hell all over the place parked doing kill collections, leveling up themselves or a pet, etc...
While traveling around I came across many spots with 1-3 players just standing, AFK, at or near NPC spawn locations to 'farm' those spawns for loot or leveling purposes (self or pet). As such, they 'bank up' while AFK (at work, at school, sleeping, etc...) and complete some of the collections too -- all by using macros in loops. Not my style but prevalent among many veteran players.
The galaxy boards...
READ the top threads on pretty much any of them and 4 out of 5 posts in them are some vet types bantering back and forth and tossing insults at any/every post. The replies tend to be nothing more than about a dozen of the same folks trash-talking back and forth across the threads. They are NOT the general population of that server -- just a handful of mouthy types that found an outlet so avoid those forums.
Check the merchant server forums and the info stickies in the class or guides forums but avoid the actual server discussion forums or you'll get a really bad view of the player base -- like you will if you just hang around Mos Eisley listening or trying to chat. Few 'decent' players do more than pass through that rat-hole and the same view holds for the galaxy discusion forums.
A few other points:
A returning player is usually welcomed on any server -- just make it clear you're returning and start your talks after you're 90th level with a char.
Higher population servers = all lands covered with buildings but lower prices due to competition. (no where to build, hard to navigate).
Higher population servers tend to have more open minded types around -- they see more newer folks vs just other "old vets". (more knowledge of basics questions than lowpop vets so better answers on noob questions; plus more acceptance of newer players).
Lower populations = far more open spaces to build your own or to just roam around but higher prices due to less competition. (MUCH easier to move around these worlds and building in a good spot is still possible)
Lower population servers tend to be more cliquish. (very low knowledge of basic type questions. Very low tollerance for 'stupid' questions -- as in questions they don't know how to answer.)
A few tradeoffs on this stuff that's worth looking at. If a player is returning, they can often find room in the cliquish environments so a low pop server can work out nicely for them and they'll find a tight group of vets to work with vs a larger population server where you're more liable to not know who you're dealing with/who's coming along for PvE or PvP runs...
I'm not panning the game really. I'm just pointing out that it is old and not really all that new-player friendly. Little has been done to make it more attractive to newer players. Really -- how hard would it be to fix the system to facilitate integration of newer players and enable Q&A's via a chat channel without: "/tell pardon, do you have a minute to answer a couple questions?" repeat...
Really -- how hard would it be to fix the system to facilitate integration of newer players and enable Q&A's via a chat channel without: "/tell pardon, do you have a minute to answer a couple questions?" repeat...
SWG was at it's best before they implemented the New Game Enhancement expansion which totally changed the game around. It used to be skill based, but I guess they thought the games that were level based had a better product, so they redid so much. The software that you buy retail is totally overwritten with patches, I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as I did before they had that expansion. Back then, being a Jedi was prestiege, but people started complaining and they had a holocron questline that gave you some direction. Then after all that, it looked as if they went ahead and said "screw it, let's let everyone be jedi and make everyone happy". So now Jedi is a starting class, but they will never be as powerful as the ones who obtained it before this expansion took place. It's not nearly the game it once was.
It's not nearly the game it once was, but I hear rumors that they will bring the classic version back. I base this on pure rumor, I don't know enough details to sound like I know what I'm talking about. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I would love it if they had separate servers for the classic version of SWG. <redacted>
This is the topic Not To Be Discussed. Seriously, MMORPG really doesn't like it, and you will be Warned or worse if you persist. There is a sticky about it. <redacted>
Feel free to add your feedback/support to those threads.
1st thread started on 03/14/2008 03:14:53
2nd thread started on 09/18/2009 12:28:17
Just curious Badger...at what point do you give up on your threads?
I FULLY support both your ideas, but when do you think it's OK and called for to start making NEW threads since yours from 2-1/2 years ago hasn't done anything.
I think sometimes you need to be a bit more aggressive on issues than you obviously do. Chat is one of the biggest cluster f****s in game right now, and has been for 7 years, yet they do nothing.
Time to FLOOD their forums IMO. I'd think if the community showed they were really behind a chat update, it would maybe get Dev attention. Your approach has yielded nothing.
So again, when do you let old ignored posts (not just yours) die and try a different approach?
I will agree that Galaxies has become a lot more CL90 (max level) focused.. and that the community is largely made up of top-level characters.. by far.
Being a the only non-CL90 character at certain times does put some extra pressure on new players to try to 'get up to speed' with everyone else and feel like they can truely participate. Thats a challenge for any mature game.. and not something SWG has every really dealth with.. probably that was never really 'planned for' either at the start of the game. Part of the challenges of being one of the first MMO games is that you don't always foresee what the game will look like after 7 years.
City of Heroes did plan ahead and add a system designed to allow 'lowbies' to temporarly level up or 'vets' to temporarily level down. Galaxies does not have that.. although the subject has been put forward on the forums a few times.
I don't think anyone in SWG.. the players or developers... have any expectations for any substantial low-level polulation growth. I don't think I will every see a bunch of new or mid-level players (and not veterans rolling new toons) doing game quests. The 'new' players tend to be some of you people.. the returning Vets... so thats what the devs are catering to... a few newbies.. a few more veterans... but mostly existing players with multiple accounts.
Whats ultimately important is if you enjoy the community aspects of the game. That includes PvP and crafting and even just comparing notes on the forums with other players.
Most veterans WILL eagerly help new players.. what they typically don't enjoy is not the questions..but the lack of effort some players make simply demanding credits or 'tell me everything' and not spacing it out with gameplay and learning.
But still.. in all fairness... its been a long time since I actively seeked out new player to help them out. I used to do a lot more of that.. now I pretty much only do that on the forums.. my 'in-game' time is more limited than years ago.. so I tend to do more playing and guild stuff and not much seeking out or recruiting as before.
There is good and bad in any game. The good parts of SWG is that there is a mature playerbase.. there are a lot of players still open to helping you out if you stick around for more than 2 logins and actually want to spend time with them.
Like any mature MMO.. the 'newness' excitement has waned off.. but there is still a lot of fun to be had re-discovering the game anew.. and there are players willing to help you out if you invest some time and energy finding them.
It would be no different than starting EvE from scratch.. help is there if you look for it. SWG could do a better job at that, no doubt.. and should have from the start... but its probably not going to change mucn now that the target for new subscribers is returning vets (in my opinion, of course).
Feel free to add your feedback/support to those threads.
1st thread started on 03/14/2008 03:14:53
2nd thread started on 09/18/2009 12:28:17
Just curious Badger...at what point do you give up on your threads?
I FULLY support both your ideas, but when do you think it's OK and called for to start making NEW threads since yours from 2-1/2 years ago hasn't done anything.
I think sometimes you need to be a bit more aggressive on issues than you obviously do. Chat is one of the biggest cluster f****s in game right now, and has been for 7 years, yet they do nothing.
Time to FLOOD their forums IMO. I'd think if the community showed they were really behind a chat update, it would maybe get Dev attention. Your approach has yielded nothing.
So again, when do you let old ignored posts (not just yours) die and try a different approach?
Time to FLOOD their forums IMO. I'd think if the community showed they were really behind a chat update, it would maybe get Dev attention. Your approach has yielded nothing.
So again, when do you let old ignored posts (not just yours) die and try a different approach?
Just to point something out, but soe has stated that over 65% of the players in SWG are active on the forums already. I'm not sure how much flood of support could be mustered for any idea at this point.
Changes in SWG have a lot more to do with timing 'windows of opportunity' than forum-basing the devs. If the devs are not in 'profession update mode'... then even if you are a Senator you are NOT going to get anything done during your term if something else has priority. You can rant, scream, threaten.. but if they are commiteed to something else.. which was probably demanded a few years earlier.. then they are going to probably stay the course and all that campaigning is gone to waste.
Bashing the devs.. flooding the forums with demands.. would be a gigantic step backwards. The devs have, in the past year or so, taken care of some long-withstanding community 'demands'.. and the future is looking bright for more of that kind of work being done. But here are limits.. the devs are only so many people.. they have limited time and their priorities are to keep the game alive and fun.. and that sometimes involved putting other things on the back-burner.
I ran a 2+ year campaign to Stance (Light) Jedi skills fixed. I knew that the GU3 design changes to Stance Jedi would ultimately lead to the issues that became commonplace well before the changes ever hit live. I begged.. I pleaded.. I did everything I could think of to have the devs listen and make adjustments. Unfortunately.. those devs didn't understand.. they couldn't figure it out because they refused to see it from a players perspective.
Well.. fast forward 2 years later.. with constant and persistant campagning.. not throwing insults.. not bashing devs.. not ranting on the forums.. but simply keeping the issue alive... Stance Jedi finally got fixed because a 'window of opportunity' opened up and the devs where receptive to making changes.
The CURRENT SWG dev team is a lot more receptive than I've ever seen in the past.. unfortunatly they are also a very small team. The good news is that the dev team seems to KNOW the game a lot better from a PLAYER perspective.. wheras before the old devs seemed to be disconnected from that perspective.
So.. there will be windows of opportunity in the future for the various 'requests' players put forward... however it may take months.. or yes YEARS to get there.
Thats the bit of advice I give players asking me about "wouldn't it be great if the devs did XXXX'. My response is often 'yes'... but are you willing to put in the work to keep the subject alive for the 2 years it might take for the team to finally get it done.
Demands are easy to make.. an easy to justify. The hard part is sticking by your idea.. keeping the lines of communication open.. and being around when the window of opportunity opens up.
SWG is smaller.. but tigher.. and in a lot of ways.. that a whole lot better because the ACTIVE current players are finally seeing improvements requested years earlier come to live. For those who stuck it out... its very satisfying.
Comments
I resubbed and played up thru level 30 on Starsider. Good population and fun helpful community. Attended several RP/story events. I'm not going to continue playing because I can't take the buggy animations and lag (or whatever it is). Upsetting since I can run Age of Conan on higher settings with less lag, even in raids. But I had some SWG nostaligia and definitely enjoyed a month of play.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
I tried it out during the steam deals for about 6 bucks.It is the most clunkiest MMO i have ever played,Sure its ten years old so i can forgive the graphics although i cant forgive sony for never updating them.
For instance in all those 10 years ppl seem to have been eable to jump.But there is not even a jump animation for it ,your char simply pops off the ground running in the air and whats worse,in reality your char does not even leave the ground since he will still colide with objects below him
)
^not even that has been updated to remotly look ok after 10 years.The market place is hell if you are acustomed to Eve or aion or most other MMO's.
Only for the fans i say.
Thanks for all the feedback guys, one day I might just try the free trial and see whats going on for myself. The quoted comment did sadden me though. As an ex denizen of Lowca, the one thing you could bet your corvette on was that SWG players were helpful and nice. The game may have been broken and buggy from the start, but it really didnt matter in the scheme of things, because the people around you were great and made the game great
Lowca was great, apart from FEDS and GOON. Problem now is now that most of Lowca transferred to Flurry and Flurry can be quite hostile. The amount of helpful players is an endangered species on Flurry, let alone a lively community. Ever read the Flurry forums, it's loaded with flame wars, for some reason people don't get along with each other even in the same faction (we've had problems with other Imps when trying to do some pvp).
Flurry flame wars??? Who woulda thunk it?
Flurry has always had it's problem children no question...I was never into PvP so I can't really comment on that part...But I do know at one time it was an awesome Server with plenty of helpful Folks on the PvE side...I met some incredible people in my years on Flurry...Many of whom I still Game with today...I'm sure it's nothing like that anymore...and that's a shame...But things change...
To sum it up, Star Wars Galaxies has many dead servers. You have about 3 Heavy servers (Starsider, Flurry and a Euro server) , If you want real facts on how SWG is doing, contact SOE ask for a 3 day trial so you can use your character and see how the game is. Go to create a new toon in your prime time (let's say 7pm on a friday) and look at all the servers that say "Very Light" to give you a indication how the game is.
Badger can claim SOE and SWG are riding high and doing extremely well (you know he wears rose colored glasses) but the fact remains SWG is not doing well. The only uplift in players is when a event comes up and players remain for a month, complete the event quests to gain tokens, buy what they need and update their housing maintenance and cancel. Look at all of SOE's updates and events and you see players return for a month and then servers go back into low numbers. Now while I do agree only 3 servers are highly populated it will never be what Pre-cu levels were and never will. Best thing SOE can do is merge all the very light servers into one server and only have 4 servers for SWG reducing maintenance and time to update those dead servers. If a server gets too populated then open a new one.
Best advice, get a trial or ask SOE to grant your account a 3 day trial and look around, check the servers and see which ones are only active and then make a toon on those servers which are really active to see the whole picture. I said this before and I will say it again, for SOE to save Star Wars Galaxies ( Financially) is to break down and open 1 classic server. Make a big announcement about a SWG Anniversary classic server and bring it up to the Trials of Obi-Wan (Mustafar) patch and leave it be. In 2 months you will see that server pass the other servers in population. SOE can make money and continue to fund the NGE servers.
One other thing, when is SOE going to get things right? When are we going to see a Bespin Cloud city add-on? or Dagobah? Hell even another planet to use as a place to make more cities. Instead the crew at SOE are doing Kashyykian Tree Houses...TREEHOUSES?!?!?! Where is your direction SOE? Hey badger tell your buddies in SOE to remember that SWG's timeline is in the events from A New Hope and The Empire Strikes back, you can't tell me they can't add Lando since he was a new custome.
To help people understand how SWG is doing fiscally, you should run some numbers.
Last reports I read said that SOE was grossing about 10mil a year from SWG. Even if only half of that is gross proffit, they they are making bank for something they did 7 years ago.
At the current sub rate, this is about 56k active / paying accounts every month. For SWG, that does not sound like a stretch at all.
Throw on top of that the cash they get from the TCG, and the fact the game has problably been in he black since 2006, SWG has made plenty of money.
I have played non-stop since 09/2004. Played through the CU and the NGE changes with out quitting. Was on Corbantis and moved to Flurry.
SWG, as a mature MMO, has plenty to offer for PVE, PVP, Crafting and RP. I would challenge anyone to provide a feature to feature comparison to anyother MMO to find at least one that offers as much. This would include the crafting.
SWG is what you make of it and I have loadsof fun still to this day.
That said, I agree that there are issues and that SWG is way far from close to perfect. However I have to ask, what MMO out there is perfect that offers at least a similar set of game features for combat, housing and crafting?
Also agree that LA /SOE are not being truly honest about why they have such major lag issues that results in clunky graphics. While some from SOE fan faire have reported that SOE has kept servers up to date, no details about chip sets and configurations was provided. Just some explanation that added more servers won't fix lag cause more servers add boundries that cause lag. Then one has to ask, don't you SOE have the latest chip sets with multiple cores and cores don't add boundries?
I'm not buying the story that SOE has the latest and greatest server hardware for a minute and their botched spagetti code is likely a bigger problem.
Also lame as fark that a jerk off like smed is allowed to continue to run SOE into the ground. Agree that if SOE cannot retain good talent, they are doomed and will fail in the next 5 years under smed's continued fail leadership.
IMHO.
SOE needs to clean house and find some management who actually have a clue about gaming. The current glorified beancounters have demolished SOE's reputation and all of their flagship games.
John Smedley is to MMOs what Tony Hayward is to Gulf wildlife protection.
I could not agree more.
Sadly, I don't think this is limited to strictly SOE any longer...
It seems the entire industry is moving towards this type of "service" where MMOs are little more than fast cash grabs, therefore the bigger title games (Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, DC Comics) become the best vehicle to sell to an already established market.
This (gaming) is a 20 BILLION dollar a year industry, nearly double that of motion pictures (10.65 billion), and it's being treated as little more than the latest craze in the toy industry.
Time for these executives to wake up and realize this isn't a game...err...
Seems the leaders of the industry are doomed to repeat the failures of the past.
I stopped playing after CU,But I did go back a few years after the NGE only to get bummed. I remember promising I would never go back. It was a strange thing to see SWG after they implemented the NGE.All the old houses were still there from my guild's. smoking harvesters all over place. it was creepy. some poor guy asking for help and he was a CL 80 I was a 30 something.You could see then that it had nothing to offer anymore.
I remember the server being so packed someone was always on. truly the game had so much potential. So many went to wow,And entire guilds showed up to wow,and it offered linear game play,limited crafting profession's. but it had people, and thats what made people show up. I'm in cata beta right now have been for a good while. it is getting so kiddy like in play. can't imagine why a game company would like to cater to children but money talk's. I for one would love to see a game made in the style of SWG pre-Cu! but more balanced and not in sony's hands.
I am a current & active SWG player.
I am the current SWG Jedi Profession Senator. (on my 2nd term now)
I have 3 active accounts and 6x CL90 toons. (Jedi, BH, Commando, Smuggler, Entertainer, Officer)
I've played every profession at least once.
I am part of a mid-sized and healthy guild (DotA) with mature and well behaved players. Most are my good friends.
My guild and most of my previous server (Scylla) move to Starsider during the free character transfer offering.. best move we ever made.
Starsider has a healthy population of players of all kinds.. crafter, entertainers, PvP, PvE, pilots.. but not always busy but rarely dead (unless you are talking 3am EST.
The game is alive.. the community is alive.. and there are still small but important game updates happening from time to time that patch up long-outstanding issues or add a bit of new 'stuff' to do.
There is lots of stuff I have not done yet.. SWG has a lot of legacy content and repeatable content (like raids) for high-end items & collections.
The development team has been the best I've seen in 4 years.. at listening and performing small changes .. but changes that really matter in terms of game-fun.
The lag that happens in invasions and PvP can be challenging.. just be aware its not always smooth sailing.
What you will find:
Housing Options.. still the only game I know that allows the level of detail in housing/city/decorating options
Active Galactic Civil War (GCW).. leaderboards.. battlefields.. invasions.. free roaming PvP.
Spaceflight.. if you like piloting... its still there and the ships are the best balanced they have been in years.
Helpful players & Jerks.. they are in every game if you look for them. I only spend time with the helpful players.
Crafting with a Purpose. Its not easy to start from scratch.. but still possible and still integrated into the very fiber of the game.
Jedi, X-Wings, TIE fighters, Hoth Speeders, AT&ATs.. all still there.. ready for you to hop in and start playing with them.
Beastmatery.. back and still fun to do.
As far as game 'health'... I cannot comment because I am not privy to SOE profits.. which I doubt anyone here is.
As far as 'worthwhile'.. I think so. SWTOR is not a SWG replacement... its a different game that will not be a Sandbox style like SWG and likely a lot less social/community orientated (no crafters, no entertainers, no housing, no player cities).
So if you are wondering if there is anyone to play Star Wars with on Galaxies and have fun.. the answer is YES... provided you pick the right server and not one of the dead ones.
Starsider, Flurry, Chilastra, Bria are safe bets for community size.
SWG/STO/(SWTOR)
I played about 16 months ago for about 3 months then quit -- I kept the account going and about a month ago I rejoined the game.
You have some interesting points and your statements show some of what I've suspected; as in some decent folks in small pockets out there 'somewhere' in the game. I actually came to this forum to see where a decent server might be. The prices on the one I'm at... They are a bit steep compared to a couple other servers I checked out and, being a broke newbie type, I can level up easily enough but affording to gear up to play at the prices that are running on my current server... I won't do that AFK botting stuff so I short myself a bit for income.
Starting out these days:
The first , and most noticeable thing, is the silence. Deathly silence everywhere in the game as a new player.
The chat channel system is cryptic in an antiquated fashion and very difficult to use so few use the 'public' channels -- across a week I saw no more than 4 brief discussions in the pilots channel on one server, and it was stated as a very active channel for that server -- old post I guess.
The game is now for 90th level chars and their alts.
The prices in the game are built around this and the knowledge shared among the player base is from veterans to veterans who are playing a new alt class they have no clue how to play -- see AFK leveling under macro bots from hell.
Macro bots from hell.
Q&A's on how to macro AFK grind through the game -- on the official boards with discussions on the topic. Buff bots parked here or there. The existing player base would go ballistic if they tried to change this -- medic and officer buffs? What about an AFK entertainer to cure fatigue? Traders actually having to HAND sample on Mustifar vs just park a bot?!?! Yeah, bots from hell all over the place parked doing kill collections, leveling up themselves or a pet, etc...
While traveling around I came across many spots with 1-3 players just standing, AFK, at or near NPC spawn locations to 'farm' those spawns for loot or leveling purposes (self or pet). As such, they 'bank up' while AFK (at work, at school, sleeping, etc...) and complete some of the collections too -- all by using macros in loops. Not my style but prevalent among many veteran players.
The galaxy boards...
READ the top threads on pretty much any of them and 4 out of 5 posts in them are some vet types bantering back and forth and tossing insults at any/every post. The replies tend to be nothing more than about a dozen of the same folks trash-talking back and forth across the threads. They are NOT the general population of that server -- just a handful of mouthy types that found an outlet so avoid those forums.
Check the merchant server forums and the info stickies in the class or guides forums but avoid the actual server discussion forums or you'll get a really bad view of the player base -- like you will if you just hang around Mos Eisley listening or trying to chat. Few 'decent' players do more than pass through that rat-hole and the same view holds for the galaxy discusion forums.
A few other points:
A returning player is usually welcomed on any server -- just make it clear you're returning and start your talks after you're 90th level with a char.
Higher population servers = all lands covered with buildings but lower prices due to competition. (no where to build, hard to navigate).
Higher population servers tend to have more open minded types around -- they see more newer folks vs just other "old vets". (more knowledge of basics questions than lowpop vets so better answers on noob questions; plus more acceptance of newer players).
Lower populations = far more open spaces to build your own or to just roam around but higher prices due to less competition. (MUCH easier to move around these worlds and building in a good spot is still possible)
Lower population servers tend to be more cliquish. (very low knowledge of basic type questions. Very low tollerance for 'stupid' questions -- as in questions they don't know how to answer.)
A few tradeoffs on this stuff that's worth looking at. If a player is returning, they can often find room in the cliquish environments so a low pop server can work out nicely for them and they'll find a tight group of vets to work with vs a larger population server where you're more liable to not know who you're dealing with/who's coming along for PvE or PvP runs...
I'm not panning the game really. I'm just pointing out that it is old and not really all that new-player friendly. Little has been done to make it more attractive to newer players. Really -- how hard would it be to fix the system to facilitate integration of newer players and enable Q&A's via a chat channel without: "/tell pardon, do you have a minute to answer a couple questions?" repeat...
I agree on this, and have been after it for some time: Game Play Focus: Chat Pane and Chat Channel improvements
Also have been looking for ways to encourage attended play over botting: Game Play Focus: AFK vs FUN
Feel free to add your feedback/support to those threads.
SWG was at it's best before they implemented the New Game Enhancement expansion which totally changed the game around. It used to be skill based, but I guess they thought the games that were level based had a better product, so they redid so much. The software that you buy retail is totally overwritten with patches, I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as I did before they had that expansion. Back then, being a Jedi was prestiege, but people started complaining and they had a holocron questline that gave you some direction. Then after all that, it looked as if they went ahead and said "screw it, let's let everyone be jedi and make everyone happy". So now Jedi is a starting class, but they will never be as powerful as the ones who obtained it before this expansion took place. It's not nearly the game it once was.
This is the topic Not To Be Discussed. Seriously, MMORPG really doesn't like it, and you will be Warned or worse if you persist. There is a sticky about it. <redacted>
1st thread started on 03/14/2008 03:14:53
2nd thread started on 09/18/2009 12:28:17
Just curious Badger...at what point do you give up on your threads?
I FULLY support both your ideas, but when do you think it's OK and called for to start making NEW threads since yours from 2-1/2 years ago hasn't done anything.
I think sometimes you need to be a bit more aggressive on issues than you obviously do. Chat is one of the biggest cluster f****s in game right now, and has been for 7 years, yet they do nothing.
Time to FLOOD their forums IMO. I'd think if the community showed they were really behind a chat update, it would maybe get Dev attention. Your approach has yielded nothing.
So again, when do you let old ignored posts (not just yours) die and try a different approach?
I will agree that Galaxies has become a lot more CL90 (max level) focused.. and that the community is largely made up of top-level characters.. by far.
Being a the only non-CL90 character at certain times does put some extra pressure on new players to try to 'get up to speed' with everyone else and feel like they can truely participate. Thats a challenge for any mature game.. and not something SWG has every really dealth with.. probably that was never really 'planned for' either at the start of the game. Part of the challenges of being one of the first MMO games is that you don't always foresee what the game will look like after 7 years.
City of Heroes did plan ahead and add a system designed to allow 'lowbies' to temporarly level up or 'vets' to temporarily level down. Galaxies does not have that.. although the subject has been put forward on the forums a few times.
I don't think anyone in SWG.. the players or developers... have any expectations for any substantial low-level polulation growth. I don't think I will every see a bunch of new or mid-level players (and not veterans rolling new toons) doing game quests. The 'new' players tend to be some of you people.. the returning Vets... so thats what the devs are catering to... a few newbies.. a few more veterans... but mostly existing players with multiple accounts.
Whats ultimately important is if you enjoy the community aspects of the game. That includes PvP and crafting and even just comparing notes on the forums with other players.
Most veterans WILL eagerly help new players.. what they typically don't enjoy is not the questions..but the lack of effort some players make simply demanding credits or 'tell me everything' and not spacing it out with gameplay and learning.
But still.. in all fairness... its been a long time since I actively seeked out new player to help them out. I used to do a lot more of that.. now I pretty much only do that on the forums.. my 'in-game' time is more limited than years ago.. so I tend to do more playing and guild stuff and not much seeking out or recruiting as before.
There is good and bad in any game. The good parts of SWG is that there is a mature playerbase.. there are a lot of players still open to helping you out if you stick around for more than 2 logins and actually want to spend time with them.
Like any mature MMO.. the 'newness' excitement has waned off.. but there is still a lot of fun to be had re-discovering the game anew.. and there are players willing to help you out if you invest some time and energy finding them.
It would be no different than starting EvE from scratch.. help is there if you look for it. SWG could do a better job at that, no doubt.. and should have from the start... but its probably not going to change mucn now that the target for new subscribers is returning vets (in my opinion, of course).
SWG/STO/(SWTOR)
That would be kind of labratish wouldn't it?
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
Just to point something out, but soe has stated that over 65% of the players in SWG are active on the forums already. I'm not sure how much flood of support could be mustered for any idea at this point.
Changes in SWG have a lot more to do with timing 'windows of opportunity' than forum-basing the devs. If the devs are not in 'profession update mode'... then even if you are a Senator you are NOT going to get anything done during your term if something else has priority. You can rant, scream, threaten.. but if they are commiteed to something else.. which was probably demanded a few years earlier.. then they are going to probably stay the course and all that campaigning is gone to waste.
Bashing the devs.. flooding the forums with demands.. would be a gigantic step backwards. The devs have, in the past year or so, taken care of some long-withstanding community 'demands'.. and the future is looking bright for more of that kind of work being done. But here are limits.. the devs are only so many people.. they have limited time and their priorities are to keep the game alive and fun.. and that sometimes involved putting other things on the back-burner.
I ran a 2+ year campaign to Stance (Light) Jedi skills fixed. I knew that the GU3 design changes to Stance Jedi would ultimately lead to the issues that became commonplace well before the changes ever hit live. I begged.. I pleaded.. I did everything I could think of to have the devs listen and make adjustments. Unfortunately.. those devs didn't understand.. they couldn't figure it out because they refused to see it from a players perspective.
Well.. fast forward 2 years later.. with constant and persistant campagning.. not throwing insults.. not bashing devs.. not ranting on the forums.. but simply keeping the issue alive... Stance Jedi finally got fixed because a 'window of opportunity' opened up and the devs where receptive to making changes.
The CURRENT SWG dev team is a lot more receptive than I've ever seen in the past.. unfortunatly they are also a very small team. The good news is that the dev team seems to KNOW the game a lot better from a PLAYER perspective.. wheras before the old devs seemed to be disconnected from that perspective.
So.. there will be windows of opportunity in the future for the various 'requests' players put forward... however it may take months.. or yes YEARS to get there.
Thats the bit of advice I give players asking me about "wouldn't it be great if the devs did XXXX'. My response is often 'yes'... but are you willing to put in the work to keep the subject alive for the 2 years it might take for the team to finally get it done.
Demands are easy to make.. an easy to justify. The hard part is sticking by your idea.. keeping the lines of communication open.. and being around when the window of opportunity opens up.
SWG is smaller.. but tigher.. and in a lot of ways.. that a whole lot better because the ACTIVE current players are finally seeing improvements requested years earlier come to live. For those who stuck it out... its very satisfying.
SWG/STO/(SWTOR)