Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
News Flash: Every New MMO is A Failure To Someone
WSIMike
Member Posts: 5,564
Edit: The impetus for this post is basically a number of recent conversations I've had with people who are interested in XIV, on MSN, in XI, etc. They're not regular forum dwellers like myself, and have been checking out different ones to get a "feel" for public reaction to FFXIV so far. They're concerned at all the posts talking about how it will fail. Not being on forums very much, they don't know about the signal-to-noise ratio common to such places... how much noise there is, and how little actual signal. I basically explained to them the same thing I discuss in this post... So, hopefully that will help put this post more in context as well...
.....
Been reading through the threads for FFXIV and, while entirely predictable, I still find it funny, in a sad way, that more and more "this game will fail" or "this game fails" or "this game sucks" and so on are popping up.
Every MMORPG listed on this site has "failed" or "is fail" or "will fail" to some group of people... often times with overlapping; you'll see the same people saying the same things from one MMO to the next.
It will happen with ToR. It will happen with TERA. It will happen with Secret World. It will happen with the new Warhammer MMO in development.
It will happen with new MMORPGs not even announced yet. A MMO could have a truly perfect launch... no bugs, no crashes, perfect server performance, no lag... There are people who are still going to say it fails for some reason or another.
So, to those who might be getting upset or discouraged at the rash of "fail" threads popping up about FFXIV and pehraps haven't been around here that long.... don't worry. It's just part of the routine. Nothing new. Give it enough time and most of the people will move on to the next MMO they can declare has "failed" or "will faill", etc...
There are people insisting that WoW has failed, and seriously believe it, simply because the game don't appeal to them... So there's that as well to consider.
This post isn't intended as a troll post... merely to give perspective to those who might be put off by the "uproar" they're seeing.
Everything will be fine.
The Point: Any MMO that's nearing launch - especially a high profile one - is going to see an influx of people who are going to spam every thread they can with "fail" posts...or start "fail" threads of their own. Some make a career of it; again, I've seen the same names pop up on myriad MMOs, saying the same things (unless they happen to like the MMO in question). Some of them make good points that are, unfortunately, drowned out in the noise. All I'm saying is... don't be discouraged by the "noise" you'll see people make, because it's ultimately just that.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Comments
Don't confuse extremists with normal people and don't confuse facts with fiction.
Yep.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is a fail.
Fails are either games like Tabula Rasa who gets closed after a short period or games that states that they need a certain amount of gamers to break even and doesn't (WAR is the only one I know that did this and they have half of the 250K paying subscribers they said they needed, that is a fail).
If TOR cost $150M to make and only play in $50M it is a failure. If it play in $151M it is not. And that is for the entire lifetime of the game.
Wow and Guildwars have played in many times their production costs (GWs because it was so small). They are huge successes. But even games that just got in a little more like EQ2 are successes, any game that still have players after 6 years must be doing something right.
I'm going to overgeneralize and say people tend to overgenerailze.
With each successive MMO there is more hype generate by the company and the players. Expectations get overinflated and disappointment ensues.
That is not to say that there are not egregious flaws in some of these games.
While I personally don't think FFXIV is going to fail, it has failed me. I want to love it, but I can't.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
Am I wrong, though? Are there not people in every MMO"s threads insisting the game will fail for any of a variety of reasons? Am I wrong that regardless, 99% of the time, the MMO continues on, does fine, and maintains a core playerbase, long after those insisting it would fail have moved on to repeat their routine for the next new MMO to come out?
Did I not say that threads dedicated to actual criticism of the game are fine? Did I not say all the posts of people basically saying " the game is fail" or "will fail" or are otherwise similarly unconstructive are the problem and should be isolated, to keep the forums more free of all that noise?
What facts am I confusing with fiction exactly? Especially since that exact behavior has demonstrably happened with every single new MMO to come out going back as far as I can remember? Go back and check any MMO's forums around the time of its beta into its release and tell me what "facts" I'm confusing for "fiction", please.
Edit: removed the first couple lines as I wasn't sure of the "tone" you intended your response in. Regardless... I'm not sure what facts I'm confusing with fiction, especially considering I'm not stating anything that can't be verified with a little bit of research.
Perhaps I should sum up my point in the original post... I'll do so now.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I think it's cute that, in this discussion, you're throwing the strawman claim on me.
Of course you're not wrong... when you focus on only the extremist posts. Of course you're not wrong when you don't consider that 'fail' is a relative word and does not mean 'going bankrupt and shutting down' to most people who use the word in relation to MMOs.
From what I've seen in regards to what you wrote, it looks like you're only looking at the posts who validate your opinion(and I'll agree that there are a LOT of them) but disregard all the posts that bridge the gap and act as a middle ground.(which also are a lot)
Just because someone is saying a game is awful, going to fail and is acting like a rabid hater doesn't mean that what they say bad about the game doesn't exist. Likewise, when someone is blindly defending a game through blatant fanboyism doesn't mean that what they say good about the game doesn't exist.
I could write much more but you keep editing you're posts and it's making me suspicious.
Sure there are people who say WoW is a failure.
Then there are those who say AC II was a failure.
Other than one being in the past tense, you can look at who is right in that idea.
For games that are still out today. It would be comparing a failure of an MMO in terms of its current subscribers. AoC was considered a huge success in its first 6 months, but the complaints started rolling in about so many things. They went from 700,000 current subscribers to less than 100,000.
Thats what people see with FFXIV because of some very frustrating issues at the moment. Most here dont want to see FFXIV fail..most are just frustrated to see it happen.
Whats it up to now? 170,000 preorders? Thats a good number because MMOs that are good have a habbit of spreading to initial subscriber's friends. However, if its too frustrating for both newbies and hardcore mmo players it will be a failure financially atleast.
Not much room for error with games like SWtoR, GW2, Tera, Diablo 3...etc comming soon. Not all exactly MMORPGs but all of them are generally competing for the same market.
- ya I'm here
i dont think that is the same market ffxiv is diffreant from them games and diablo 3 isnt a mmo
The more I play FFXIV, the more i'm SURE it's 90% designed for the Japanese console market and secondly, for FF fanbois around the world.
Unlike Western MMOS (AoC, Warhammer, etc) this game does not have the same demographic. AoC was designed for US and Europe, it had ZERO ZERO ZERO presence east. FFXIV is the opposite, it's designed for the east. I will be money that FFXIV will have way more subscribers a year after its PC release than did AoC. Why? Because SE knows its demographic and don't pretend otherwise.
That's why all the yelling and screaming about the horrible UI (some legitimate, some just trolls) won't change it. It's designed for the 400-600k Japanese PS3 Market. People in japan don't play on the PC, virtually none existent, You go to cafes to get your PC gaming on, hardely ever at home.
Let's say you get 100k subscribers in the US, 100k in Europer and around 400-600k in Japan, that's a 600k - 800k subscriber base. You better believe that game is considered a financial success.
People really need to stop thinking that everyone mmo is designed for every person in the world. This is a niche game through and through. I happen to fall in that niche because of FFXI. I'm a FF fanboi, but a realist as well. I don't like certain aspects of the UI (i.e. taking 10 minutes to sell 20 things), but hey, I LOVE using the controller to fish, to harvest, to fight, etc.
People made the mistake in thinking thta FFXIV was designed for everyone. SE made the mistake thinking the West would put up with its marketing/communication/business model. SE also didn't realize that people just didn't understand how it operated.
That's enough of my rambling.
How is TOR, GW2 and Tera not MMOs?
Sure, TOR will be pretty instanced but by that definition would Wow not be a MMO either. TERA just have a slightly different combat system but everything else a MMO have and GW2 is as much MMO as any other game, in many ways more because of the dynamic world.
Diablo 3 is not a MMO so you at least got one right.
Yo, don't take this as an attack or anything because I pretty much agree with everything else you said, especially the line directly following what I quoted.
However there is some validity to people thinking this game was made for everyone in the world; reason being global launch. I'm not saying people were correct for making that assumption. I'm just saying it's not that far of a stretch when a game plans a global launch to players thinking it's a game for everyone.
If I decided to open a clothing store chain worldwide, it'd be pretty darn silly for me to only sell turbans robes and sandals.
What are you suspicious of? Are you afraid he will physically harm you? Or that he might own you in an internet argument?
Despite the people that don't know the difference betwwen a beta and the final public release there were always be launch problems EVERY single MMO has had them, and not every MMO is made for the masses , people should just realize MMOs will have problems and they can stray away from "Standard" at times, TBH I would love to play this game its got a lot of the features Im looking for, but Ill have to wait till next year to play , the people that are whining about the game need to crawl back to the games they can comprehend and understand.
It's not that you are wrong. It's more like you're captain obvious. It's like you are telling us that EQ1 is an mmorpg as if we don't know it.
Sounds like you are one of the people here who dump everyone into either the "troll" or the "fanboi" slot when in fact neither of those exist for the most part. The only time that separation happens is when people turn a thread with info in it into something personal.
People just play games and when they like something about it they either post a thread about how great it is or they post a thread how crappy it is. Both are valuable and justified so I don't see why you would have to provide consolation to consumers by patting them on the head and reassuring them that the posts on negative issues will blow over. Maybe once people who have had bad experiences with a certain game realize there is already a productive thread about it, they decide not to create more. The fact that threads on negative issues slows down after release is to be expected. The original issues that are pointed out are still relevant and the people who posted the complaints just got tired of dumping more cash into the game and moved on to another that may have been worth it. That doesn't mean the issue never existed in the first place.
Telling people not to worry about the negative threads (if they are genuinely interested in the games ups and downs) is not helping them at all. All you are accomplishing by doing that is covering their eyes from reality. One day they may figure out they hate a specific game for a certain reason and would think maybe they should have read peoples opinions on the game themselves.
Anyone who will intentionally ignore an "uproar" (as you so casually put it) about an open beta is looking for disaster.
You are adding to the "noise" of threads with this one about absolutely nothing. Good story. Next time try harder to make a thread with some relevant information about FF14 in it so people can actually learn something good or bad.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Newsflash: every lame ass mmo will have fanbois deflect criticism onto people highlighting its faults.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I dont care if the game fails or succeeds. It does not have design elements that I personally care for, though, and so I will not be playing it nor encouraging my guild to check it out. As of Friday night I shut down our FFXIV related forum, explained the the guild my reasons for doing so, and closed our books on this title.
We will continue to look at other games, improvements to Darkfall are high on our hopes list. As is Earthrise, Blade & Soul, TSW, and TERA. We will also continue playing as a whole in Entropia Universe. FFXIV though is not for us.
Laudanum - Romance. Revenge. Revolution.
Crappy, petty people breed and raise crappy, petty kids.
I enjoyed this post, thank you.
People need to be better at weeding through the nonsense and realize that solid criticism, if backed up with experience, is good for a game. I've also realized that many fans of XI and XIV are masochists that are willing to play anything, no matter how annoying, as long as it's not like WoW. I used to be one of those and i'm embarrassed it took me so long to snap out of it. I will always love XI for what it was in it's time, but XIV has not improved on anything as a successor. I've stated why in many posts. If you're unwilling to see that, then i can't help you. Play it yourself and make up your own mind.
Yes, this game has failed. It will lack content, and only please the fanboys with the nice graphics. Please don't go assuming all other mmos will have this same kind of reaction. FF XIV is getting bad rep because of the beta, and closed mouth of the developers. People just don't like the performance of the game, and the general lack of things to do, except party and quest.
Hrm... My last edit was at 11:01:59. Your post is tagged at 11:24:28... You didn't post a response until 23 minutes after my reply to you, but then you say I keep editing my post. Not sure what you're getting at there.
I edited out the strawman statement well before you even posted your reply because, as I stated in the edit, I wasn't sure of the tone of your reply. It's not like I went back *after* you responded and changed it.
Your suspicion is entirey unfounded and seems only intended to draw attention away from what I actually said.
Speaking of which...
I'm only looking at the posts that validate my opinion...? Well... yes... in the context of the post and why I posted it, they absolutely do. That was kind of the point.
If what you're getting at is that I'm trying to turn people away from any post that's critical of the game, referring to it as "noise", then no.. that's not what I'm doing. If that's what you're getting at, you're either being intellectually dishonest, since I have already explained the difference, or you're simply cherry-picking and taking what I say out of context.
I'll say it a 3rd time... I'm not against posts that level criticisms against the game in the form of discussion. I'm pointing out the threads that prattle on pointlessly about how "this game will fail", or "it has failed" or whatever. Many of those posts do have a very high signal-to-noise ratio - favoring noise - and are loaded with things that are either old news, are exaggerated, are opinion asserted as fact, or simply not true. Those are the ones I'm referring to.
I'm pointing out to people who may be here to see what the general response is to the game to not be put off by the volume of "this game fails" posts, because a substantial number of them are posted by people who basically hop from one MMO to another repeating the same drivel in every game's forums.
There are a number of posts that do contain many valid criticisms of FFXIV - some of which I agree with. However, I'm trying to get people to understand that not every "Fail" post they see should be given equal consideration.
I'm not exactly sure what your problem is with that.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
And I explained that my post was more intended for those who *don't* spend a lot of time on forums like many of us do, and so it *wouldn't* be obvious to them. It was intended to tell those people "not every "fail" post you see should be taken seriously... many of them are just noise".
I think that's the 3rd or 4th time I've had to repeat that now.
I updated my original post at 11:16AM to point out that distinction. You posted your message almost 4 hours later, and yet somehow missed that detail in my OP....
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
... another person who didn't bother actually thoroughly reading my post before responding.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Thank you - this exactly.
... and yet another who didn't bother to actually read what I said thoroughly.
Boy, you all are coming out of the woodwork!
Anyone else want to join them on the bandwagon?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Considering how you argue and construct your posts, I'd say he, and the poster that you quoted a few posts above, aren't too far off really. It's not as though you would ever concede to something like that though, so whatever.