Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Psychology of a Story hater: do they really like the quest system in current MMO's that much?

135

Comments

  • busdriverbusdriver Member Posts: 859

    Written quests can't compete with other people, this is ultimately why sandbox games are superior to themeparks. Just look at EVE and it's corp vs. corp politics with alliances and backstabbings and so on. No quest writer in gaming history has come even close to that. And as long as scripted AI is as simple and stupid as it is now, things will stay that way. When/if we get actual, real AI, things might be different.

     

    Anyway, SWTOR doesn't look bad because it has a story, it looks terrible because it seems to have very little besides that.

  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472

    you mean very little besides the player housing, the crafting, the raiding and the side quests? yeah i guess if we remove all that, they don't have very much besides the story.  But then again thats cutting about 80 percent of the game out of the equation to come to that conclusion.

    Thats not a very fair assessment of a game if you start taking things away from the game to say it doesn't have very much in it.

    Thats like saying, GW2 is dull cause all it has is fighting monsters.  Thats neither true nor fair.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • MetentsoMetentso Member UncommonPosts: 1,437

    if you dislike Story in a MMO, do you really like the current way of questing that much?

    Nope.

  • busdriverbusdriver Member Posts: 859

    Originally posted by whilan

    you mean very little besides the player housing, the crafting, the raiding and the side quests? yeah i guess if we remove all that, they don't have very much besides the story.  But then again thats cutting about 80 percent of the game out of the equation to come to that conclusion.

    Thats not a very fair assessment of a game if you start taking things away from the game to say it doesn't have very much in it.

    Thats like saying, GW2 is dull cause all it has is fighting monsters.  Thats neither true nor fair.

    Housing, not a big RP'er here so never really cared about that. Crafting, usually sucks and is more or less useless in themeparks. Raiding, oh yeah I really miss those 4-10 hour sessions. Not. Side quests, you mean besides mainquest there are sidequests?! Who knew!

    Spacecombat is a joke, PvP is battlegrounds style and generally speaking the whole game is more like a multiplayer game, not a MMO.

    I know they haven't revealed much, but I've been around long enough to know first impression is usually correct.

  • whilanwhilan Member UncommonPosts: 3,472

    Originally posted by busdriver

    Originally posted by whilan

    you mean very little besides the player housing, the crafting, the raiding and the side quests? yeah i guess if we remove all that, they don't have very much besides the story.  But then again thats cutting about 80 percent of the game out of the equation to come to that conclusion.

    Thats not a very fair assessment of a game if you start taking things away from the game to say it doesn't have very much in it.

    Thats like saying, GW2 is dull cause all it has is fighting monsters.  Thats neither true nor fair.

    Housing, not a big RP'er here so never really cared about that. Crafting, usually sucks and is more or less useless in themeparks. Raiding, oh yeah I really miss those 4-10 hour sessions. Not. Side quests, you mean besides mainquest there are sidequests?! Who knew!

    Spacecombat is a joke, PvP is battlegrounds style and generally speaking the whole game is more like a multiplayer game, not a MMO.

    I know they haven't revealed much, but I've been around long enough to know first impression is usually correct.

    Anyway, SWTOR doesn't look bad because it has a story, it looks terrible because it seems to have very little besides that.

     

    I put those two together so they don't get lost as they are both related to what i'm going to say.

    Okay You started off with the quote above saying wasn't bad because of it's story then said it has very little else besides that. You can see that in your quote right there. I replied back saying it had more then just the story so as to let you know it has more then that.

    Now moving onto the part i actually quoted instead of copying and pasted part. 

    Your not a RP thats fine that would explain why you don't care for housing but thats doesn't mean it will be bad or should be excluded from the list of things it offers.

    Crafting *usually* sucks. I guess you can say that because most other games crafting isn't good or fun, and that this one won't be either but theres a few factors that could change that outlook, first off different company, second off different universe, thirdly there can always be a first.  This one i'm gonna leave as a wait and lets see. I've never been a big crafting fan myself but i can see room for some improvement in this department.  As for being useless in theme parks, thats only true because most companies make it that way. Theres no saying that in a part of a quest that you need to raise the banner for the republic and put it ontop of the main house however the one they had was destroy, so you need to make one yourself (with the help of others of course) to make the flag, pole, cement and patterns.

    As for raiding, most people enjoyed the raiding, it's a personal choice. Certainly not something to be left out all together or deemed not important enough to be worth mentioning

    The side quest comment. Um where do i start with this one? are you just brushing side quests off because you think they aren't important or something, i'm afraid i need more of an explaination on this one.

    So on the rails fighting can't be fun and is immediately a joke? how do you come to this conclusion.  For all we know that aspect could actually be very entertaining.

    PVP is battle grounds.  Okay theres absolutely nothing wrong with battlegrounds. it works just fine. This is just a personal preference of yours and not a reason it should be excluded as a feature.

    More like a Multiplayer game then an MMO: *Sigh* how many times, how many times must it be repeated over and over again by people and the devs that this is indeed an MMO. it's already been proven in several case and in the pax demo, look it up yourself.

    I'm only going to tackle this last one merely because i've disected everything else. Exactly what first impression have you had? Screenshots, interview, or have you actually played the game? 

    I've stated in other threads that i've played the 15 min demo they gave just incase you think i'm talking out of my rear about my experiences, but everything i've seen does make this as much a MMO as any other game out there.

    Final note: Merely because one thinks something isn't good or doesn't like it, does not mean it's not there or is not worth mention.

    Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.

    Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.

    image

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    Originally posted by Drachasor

    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor

    I want you to explain in detail how what you say is possible.  Give an example.

    Look, its clearly possible that 2 people can honestly have different interpretation of the same thing. Do you deny that? Since that is possible, there is no need to provide an example.  Especially since we have determined where you stand on the issue, I know you won't be pursuaded by any example I could make up since I know you would honestly interpret it differently.

    I am just trying to understand how what you are saying is logically consistent.

    I've already explained it to you. You refuse or are unable to understand it.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Drachasor


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor

    I want you to explain in detail how what you say is possible.  Give an example.

    Look, its clearly possible that 2 people can honestly have different interpretation of the same thing. Do you deny that? Since that is possible, there is no need to provide an example.  Especially since we have determined where you stand on the issue, I know you won't be pursuaded by any example I could make up since I know you would honestly interpret it differently.

    I am just trying to understand how what you are saying is logically consistent.

    I've already explained it to you. You refuse or are unable to understand it.

    No you didn't.  You said the Dev could mean something else, but you haven't said what else he could possibly mean.  Seriously, I'm just trying to understand what other possibility is going on in your head.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    Originally posted by Drachasor

    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor

    I want you to explain in detail how what you say is possible.  Give an example.

    Look, its clearly possible that 2 people can honestly have different interpretation of the same thing. Do you deny that? Since that is possible, there is no need to provide an example.  Especially since we have determined where you stand on the issue, I know you won't be pursuaded by any example I could make up since I know you would honestly interpret it differently.

    I am just trying to understand how what you are saying is logically consistent.

    I've already explained it to you. You refuse or are unable to understand it.

    No you didn't.  You said the Dev could mean something else, but you haven't said what else he could possibly mean.  Seriously, I'm just trying to understand what other possibility is going on in your head.

    The specifics are irrelevent. if you acknowledge that two people can have different but honest interpretations of the same thing, then you concede my point. 

  • ZarcobZarcob Member Posts: 207

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Story doesn't detract from community. Mandatory storylines that define your char for you, do.

    Those types represent a ridiculously tiny minority of a smaller subset of a specific genre.  Doesn't seem worth bringing up in a genreal thread on storylines and questing evolution.

    The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    Originally posted by Zarcob

    Originally posted by dhayes68



    Story doesn't detract from community. Mandatory storylines that define your char for you, do.

    Those types represent a ridiculously tiny minority of a smaller subset of a specific genre.  Doesn't seem worth bringing up in a genreal thread on storylines and questing evolution.

    I didn't bring it up. I was respoding to what someone else said.  Also its a growing dynamic of the genre.

  • Xondar123Xondar123 Member CommonPosts: 2,543

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    You're missing the point.  Disliking story in an mmo isn't because you like the current questing system. Its more about players who see mmo's as a world to play in. The more the game defines for you who your char is, what your char is doing, the less fun it is because the single predominant feature of mmo's is the other players. mmo's should focus on building community, not playing the game for us.

    In standalone games, I want story. In mmo's I want community.

    Why can't it be both? Why can't I play an MMO for the story and the community. Good stories can help create good communities. I've had hours long conversations with friends discussing the stories and events of our favourite TV shows. I've spent lots of time talking about the story and lore in WoW with my guild.

    I think your attitude is somewhat close minded and you're essentially skipping half a gane because of it.

  • ZarcobZarcob Member Posts: 207

    Originally posted by busdriver

    Just look at EVE and it's corp vs. corp politics with alliances and backstabbings and so on.

    I've seen "politics with alliances and backstabbings and so on" in just about every game I've played.  It's human nature.  It doesn't have anything to do with game design beyond simply getting people to communicate and interact with one another.  Once that's accomplished its guaranteed to have more than its share of e-drama.  I know it's a crushing realization to hear; but EVE didn't invent human nature.  Sorry to shoot down your bad troll bait.

    The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.

  • musicmannmusicmann Member UncommonPosts: 1,095

    Originally posted by Loke666

    I don't mind Biowares qestlines at all. But I do dislike that they only offer that to level up.

    GW2 offers both a similar system and their dynamic world, that means you can either do you story or be out and just do dynamic quests or dungeon, whatever you feel for.

    My perfect game is a mix between a very open sandbox and a bioware styled thempark, where you yourself choose which playstyle you prefer or mix as you want. 

    I will not say anything for certain since TOR isn't out yet but it seems like Bioware doesn't offer enough alternative gameplay for my taste. That is the reason I believe in Guildwars 2 and world of darkness online instead of TOR for myself, you other people have to decide for yourself.

     

    TOR will have  personal story arcs, World Story arcs and open world questing as well. You will be able to level any way you choose.

  • ZarcobZarcob Member Posts: 207

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Zarcob


    Originally posted by dhayes68



    Story doesn't detract from community. Mandatory storylines that define your char for you, do.

    Those types represent a ridiculously tiny minority of a smaller subset of a specific genre.  Doesn't seem worth bringing up in a genreal thread on storylines and questing evolution.

    I didn't bring it up. I was respoding to what someone else said.  Also its a growing dynamic of the genre.

    The person you were responding to made no mention of community or mandatory quests.  You brought up general "storylines" in your first response, but your clarified comments to me seem to indicate you had meant "mandatory char-defining storylines" all along.  Seems like it would be worth articulating that point, especially since stories of the "mandatory and char-defining" type likely apply to less than 1% of total storyline content across all MMO's.

    The morning sun has vanquished the horrible night.

  • StellosStellos Member UncommonPosts: 1,491

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    You're missing the point.  Disliking story in an mmo isn't because you like the current questing system. Its more about players who see mmo's as a world to play in. The more the game defines for you who your char is, what your char is doing, the less fun it is because the single predominant feature of mmo's is the other players. mmo's should focus on building community, not playing the game for us.

    In standalone games, I want story. In mmo's I want community.

     Exactly.  OP you are way off the mark.  Story mode is just the same thing you see in WoW and the other quest dominate games, only SWTOR will have voice over and allow you to choose some outcomes which really isn't any different than what's out there.  I would guess by your post your first MMO was WoW or something during that time frame.  I don't mean that as an insult, but I think alot of gamers only think that there is one way to do an open world game and that it has to have quests to guide you where you should be at during certain levels.  When people are saying thing don't like the story thing, they are are also saying they are sick of the quest fest.

    In playing recent MMOs like WAR I got so sick of having a million quests in my log that were so meaningless and tedious just so the game could claim that they had x number of quests available.  I think that's what people are sick of these days.  With a good community and gameplay you don't have to have the game hold your hand and guide you through their open world, you can explore for yourself and network with others. 

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    Originally posted by Xondar123

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    You're missing the point.  Disliking story in an mmo isn't because you like the current questing system. Its more about players who see mmo's as a world to play in. The more the game defines for you who your char is, what your char is doing, the less fun it is because the single predominant feature of mmo's is the other players. mmo's should focus on building community, not playing the game for us.

    In standalone games, I want story. In mmo's I want community.

    Why can't it be both? Why can't I play an MMO for the story and the community. Good stories can help create good communities. I've had hours long conversations with friends discussing the stories and events of our favourite TV shows. I've spent lots of time talking about the story and lore in WoW with my guild.

    I think your attitude is somewhat close minded and you're essentially skipping half a gane because of it.

    It absolutely can be both. I'm referring to the growing prevelance in story being the focus of the game to the detriment of community.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    Originally posted by Zarcob

    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Zarcob


    Originally posted by dhayes68



    Story doesn't detract from community. Mandatory storylines that define your char for you, do.

    Those types represent a ridiculously tiny minority of a smaller subset of a specific genre.  Doesn't seem worth bringing up in a genreal thread on storylines and questing evolution.

    I didn't bring it up. I was respoding to what someone else said.  Also its a growing dynamic of the genre.

    The person you were responding to made no mention of community or mandatory quests.  You brought up general "storylines" in your first response, but your clarified comments to me seem to indicate you had meant "mandatory char-defining storylines" all along.  Seems like it would be worth articulating that point, especially since stories of the "mandatory and char-defining" type likely apply to less than 1% of total storyline content across all MMO's.

    The person I was responding to was arguing that story doesn't preclude community. I was agreeing and clarifying what I'm referring to which is a change in the amount of focus story is getting and in specific ways it is hurting the development of community.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Drachasor


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor

    I want you to explain in detail how what you say is possible.  Give an example.

    Look, its clearly possible that 2 people can honestly have different interpretation of the same thing. Do you deny that? Since that is possible, there is no need to provide an example.  Especially since we have determined where you stand on the issue, I know you won't be pursuaded by any example I could make up since I know you would honestly interpret it differently.

    I am just trying to understand how what you are saying is logically consistent.

    I've already explained it to you. You refuse or are unable to understand it.

    No you didn't.  You said the Dev could mean something else, but you haven't said what else he could possibly mean.  Seriously, I'm just trying to understand what other possibility is going on in your head.

    The specifics are irrelevent. if you acknowledge that two people can have different but honest interpretations of the same thing, then you concede my point. 

    Wow.  Fine, if you don't want to tell me what your interpretation is...  I honestly don't see what that could make logical sense (without assuming some lying going on), so I am trying to find out what you are thinking.  Apparently such a simple request is too much for you, because you'd rather argue about the request than actually say what is going on in your head.

    Whatever.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678

    Originally posted by musicmann

    Originally posted by Loke666

    I don't mind Biowares qestlines at all. But I do dislike that they only offer that to level up.

    GW2 offers both a similar system and their dynamic world, that means you can either do you story or be out and just do dynamic quests or dungeon, whatever you feel for.

    My perfect game is a mix between a very open sandbox and a bioware styled thempark, where you yourself choose which playstyle you prefer or mix as you want. 

    I will not say anything for certain since TOR isn't out yet but it seems like Bioware doesn't offer enough alternative gameplay for my taste. That is the reason I believe in Guildwars 2 and world of darkness online instead of TOR for myself, you other people have to decide for yourself.

     

    TOR will have  personal story arcs, World Story arcs and open world questing as well. You will be able to level any way you choose.

    I've told them that.  I've told them they can grind levels or PvP as well.  I've said there MIGHT be some initial personal story stuff they have to do.  They have a "different interpretation" of what the Devs have said, an interpretation they don't care to share.

  • torn51torn51 Member Posts: 79

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    You're missing the point.  Disliking story in an mmo isn't because you like the current questing system. Its more about players who see mmo's as a world to play in. The more the game defines for you who your char is, what your char is doing, the less fun it is because the single predominant feature of mmo's is the other players. mmo's should focus on building community, not playing the game for us.

    In standalone games, I want story. In mmo's I want community.

     

     

     

    Is there something wrong with having both?

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    Originally posted by Drachasor

    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor

    I want you to explain in detail how what you say is possible.  Give an example.

    Look, its clearly possible that 2 people can honestly have different interpretation of the same thing. Do you deny that? Since that is possible, there is no need to provide an example.  Especially since we have determined where you stand on the issue, I know you won't be pursuaded by any example I could make up since I know you would honestly interpret it differently.

    I am just trying to understand how what you are saying is logically consistent.

    I've already explained it to you. You refuse or are unable to understand it.

    No you didn't.  You said the Dev could mean something else, but you haven't said what else he could possibly mean.  Seriously, I'm just trying to understand what other possibility is going on in your head.

    The specifics are irrelevent. if you acknowledge that two people can have different but honest interpretations of the same thing, then you concede my point. 

    Wow.  Fine, if you don't want to tell me what your interpretation is...  I honestly don't see what that could make logical sense (without assuming some lying going on), so I am trying to find out what you are thinking.  Apparently such a simple request is too much for you, because you'd rather argue about the request than actually say what is going on in your head.

    Whatever.

    It goes both ways. Do you concede that two people can have honest but contradictory interpretations of the same thing?  Why can't you answer that?  Because you know once you concede it, then  you've made my point. You want a specific so you can deny it, but its not necessary. As long as different people can have honest but different interpretations of the same thing, then I'm as potentially right as you are.

  • dhayes68dhayes68 Member UncommonPosts: 1,388

    Originally posted by torn51

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    You're missing the point.  Disliking story in an mmo isn't because you like the current questing system. Its more about players who see mmo's as a world to play in. The more the game defines for you who your char is, what your char is doing, the less fun it is because the single predominant feature of mmo's is the other players. mmo's should focus on building community, not playing the game for us.

    In standalone games, I want story. In mmo's I want community.

     Is there something wrong with having both?

    Only if either one is done in a way the precludes the other.

    Anyway, I'm not anti story in general. In the context of an MMO, in which the singular feature that seperates the genre from others is the other players, I'm specifically anti story that is built into the game by the devs specifically in a way that discourages story that is generated by the players.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 10,989

    Originally posted by busdriver

    Written quests can't compete with other people, this is ultimately why sandbox games are superior to themeparks. Just look at EVE and it's corp vs. corp politics with alliances and backstabbings and so on. No quest writer in gaming history has come even close to that. And as long as scripted AI is as simple and stupid as it is now, things will stay that way. When/if we get actual, real AI, things might be different.

     

    Anyway, SWTOR doesn't look bad because it has a story, it looks terrible because it seems to have very little besides that.

    image

    Any game that predefines your gameplay style, character, and moral choices.. it doesnt matter if its a choice of 2 actions, or 10, the fact is, if your limiting peoples decision making in any way, then your stifling creativity.. and if theres one thing MMO players generally have, is a shed load of imagination... maybe not some of the WoW players though (and yes i play WoW too....)

    if you give players the tools to create their own adventure, they will, if you define it for them, then in what way is that somehow better ?

  • BarCrowBarCrow Member UncommonPosts: 2,195

    I like story driven mmos. I try to play to enjoy the game and do exactly the opposite of quest gathering to maximize XP and reward output. I like to take my time..even if I have to go across the game world again because I recieive a quest I missed to an area I just left. I just started playing an mmo with a friend...his wife recently joined us. She complains up and down how she hates story and doesnt bother to read the quest. Then she complains about not being able to find a quest (despite a quest finder built in to the game..a feature I myself could do without). "Where is it?" "What do we do now?" "what am I looking for?" "I cant' find it" "This sucks!" etc...etc...etc. She also complains there are not enough mobs then runs ahead in an instance and aggros everything in sight ...dies...then complains about the difficulty...and heaven forbid if there is a puzzle to solve..or delicate jumping involved..because if she "wanted to play Marios Bros. she'd setup a nintendo". I could go on and on...it's maddening. Back on the point...which was...IF SHE HAD READ AND FOLLOWED THE STORY 99% OF HER QUESTIONS WOULD HAVE BEEN ANSWERED. ..but no one wants to read the quest. Stories keep me interested in the world to a degree..instead of just trying to max my character level as fast as possible.

  • DrachasorDrachasor Member Posts: 2,678

    Originally posted by dhayes68

    Originally posted by Drachasor


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor


    Originally posted by dhayes68


    Originally posted by Drachasor

    I want you to explain in detail how what you say is possible.  Give an example.

    Look, its clearly possible that 2 people can honestly have different interpretation of the same thing. Do you deny that? Since that is possible, there is no need to provide an example.  Especially since we have determined where you stand on the issue, I know you won't be pursuaded by any example I could make up since I know you would honestly interpret it differently.

    I am just trying to understand how what you are saying is logically consistent.

    I've already explained it to you. You refuse or are unable to understand it.

    No you didn't.  You said the Dev could mean something else, but you haven't said what else he could possibly mean.  Seriously, I'm just trying to understand what other possibility is going on in your head.

    The specifics are irrelevent. if you acknowledge that two people can have different but honest interpretations of the same thing, then you concede my point. 

    Wow.  Fine, if you don't want to tell me what your interpretation is...  I honestly don't see what that could make logical sense (without assuming some lying going on), so I am trying to find out what you are thinking.  Apparently such a simple request is too much for you, because you'd rather argue about the request than actually say what is going on in your head.

    Whatever.

    It goes both ways. Do you concede that two people can have honest but contradictory interpretations of the same thing?  Why can't you answer that?  Because you know once you concede it, then  you've made my point. You want a specific so you can deny it, but its not necessary. As long as different people can have honest but different interpretations of the same thing, then I'm as potentially right as you are.

    I've inherently acknowledged that in principle 24+ hours ago on this very topic.  That doesn't mean that you can't also have a situation where two people have different opinions and one person's is logically inconsistent.  I'm honestly trying to understand where you are coming from here, but you'd rather have a semantic debate than just tell me what your bloody interpretation on the quotes are.

Sign In or Register to comment.