Its sad how WoW turned out, not saying its a bad game I did enjoy it to some extent the whole end game grinding marks for tier gear every day, but it does get to you after a bit, TBC and Vanilla you usually had something else going on, even just having to travel to setup a raid was much better than it is now where you drop into the instance at thats it, there was loads of ppl all over even in TBC with flying mounts, you could find ppl everywhere and you had a reason to go to different areas not anymore tho.
Stopped playing wow about 3 months ago mainly because I had the urge to explore and use the game world more in an MMO have yet to find a good replacement tho, ( EVE was good but cant handle ships atm) , cant wait for something to come out that will bring nice polished gameplay with some world interaction and community based around areas instead of just a massive city hub.
Long gone are the days when the two factions used to fight the outside dragons, and there was actually some community interaction in the game world.
When blizz decided that to balance the faction is to give both sides the same amount of classes, that's when i knew the game i loved is gone (this is TBC if you missed the que lol).
Yeah Alliance shamans and Horde paladins....just NO. I agree. That really didn't set well with me either.
This was one of the mirade of reasons I quit WoW, why oh why did they have to give in to the complainers that both factions HAD to have the same classes, I loved the fact the other side had a class we didn't, it gave each side that little advantage, a challenge, then they had to go and take that challenge away.
I've been WoW clean for well over a year now, yes I've had the urge to resub but thankfully as I've started to re-enter my card details I suddenly realise I'l be logging in and standing in one of the major city hubs and wondering for about 20 mins "WTH shall I do, hmm shall I farm reagents for my craft, shall I farm gold to buy reagents for my craft, shall I grind badges for gear upgrades, shall I farm faction for gear upgrades" but each option ends up with me having to grind and grind and grind, no exploration, no immersion, no fun.
So I put the card back in the wallet and go find something else to do, a game of minesweeper
The thing is: wow is just a game. And having entertained the OP for 5 long years, it did well at what it should. The OP had most if not all the fun wow could gave him. It's time to unsub and wait for something "different'".
Ask yourself: Which game could give you so much enterntainment material before you get bored or burnt out??
Cataclysm is, in reality, WoW's NGE. The only difference is that Blizzard is feeding out the changes in small, sugar-coated bits instead of changing things overnight without warning like Sony did. I'll buy the box, explore the new world with a Forsaken Hunter and then move on when Guild Wars 2 finally releases. I'm at the stage where I'm tired of paying a game company to develop content for other people.
Sorry, but Cataclysm is not WoW's NGE in anyway. All of the changes in Cataclysm are for the better. WoW's subscription will go up when the Cataclysm hits.
Yes every thing that has been written has been done in a manner to make it appear to the vast majority of people that all of the changes are for the better.Now I am not saying that you in particular are falling into a mindless stupor over all of the new shinnies that they are throwing out there but that is the general felling I get when I read a post that reflects "all " positive points with no negative. From every thing I have read and seen of Cataclysm it is going to live up to its name .... in a literal sence. It is the closest thing I have ever seen to a NGE event. I no longer play wow for the sames reasons as are mention in the original post but I also dont wish an NGE event on any game player especialy one they have to pay for. At least in SWG we didnt have to pay for the NGE but it appears that Blizzard has managed to mask their NGE with a few new things that being the races and fly areas in all of the world maps other than that it all smell of NGE crap to me. I was at one point excited about the expansion and rolling a worgen hunter but that time has past. I hope those of you who are looking forward to the expansion are right and I am so very wrong, but the path Blizzard has been on lately with WOW leads me to believe this will be a true cataclysm for WOW. It may not be sudden but then the black plague didnt wipe out half of the known worlds population in one week either. I whole heartily believe this will put WOW on a slow and painful track to an eventual death. Who knows it may be what they are planning ,lol, so they can free up resources for the next gen game they are developing LOL. Again though seriously I hope I am dead wrong and this expansion does wonders for the game and those who still play but I for one have been sober for a year plus and plan to remain as such.
When blizz decided that to balance the faction is to give both sides the same amount of classes, that's when i knew the game i loved is gone (this is TBC if you missed the que lol).
Yeah Alliance shamans and Horde paladins....just NO. I agree. That really didn't set well with me either.
This was one of the mirade of reasons I quit WoW, why oh why did they have to give in to the complainers that both factions HAD to have the same classes, I loved the fact the other side had a class we didn't, it gave each side that little advantage, a challenge, then they had to go and take that challenge away.
I imagine the decision to give each side paladins and shaman was based on balance and design more than giving in to whiners.
Giving each side equall access to all classes gives the designers greater flexibiliy in designing encounters since they can tailor encounters aspects that will include those classes instead of assuming that neither class with be their, because both horde/alliance will be partaking in the content. Seeing that there really wasn't the 10/25 raiding split at the time, I remember how much horde came to appreciate having paladins in a raid setting. There was a whole lot of WOW and OMG going on. Even something as small as rogues having access to hand of salvation was interesting to watch.
Seeing how many other games tried "equal but different" character class approach and watching that blow up decent pvp I think it enhanced pvp at the cost of a little bit of uniqueness.
Another area that presented itself to me as a way Blizzard is shooting itself in the foot are the "phased" starting areas. Worgen and Goblins, from what I've seen, go through a scripted storyline before they can get out into the present-day Azeroth. This means that every character made for these races will go through the exact same content for the first levels. How likely are people to start alts and run them through the same theme park ride for the numb-teenth time? It also would suggest that rep grinding for those factions will be even longer because a Night Elf will not be able to do those early race-specific quests.
Blizzard has become increasingly dazzled by their own shinies and is losing sight of many of these little things that have kept people logging in for years. I wonder how many of the developers even play their own game anymore.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Cataclysm is, in reality, WoW's NGE. The only difference is that Blizzard is feeding out the changes in small, sugar-coated bits instead of changing things overnight without warning like Sony did. I'll buy the box, explore the new world with a Forsaken Hunter and then move on when Guild Wars 2 finally releases. I'm at the stage where I'm tired of paying a game company to develop content for other people.
Sorry, but Cataclysm is not WoW's NGE in anyway. All of the changes in Cataclysm are for the better. WoW's subscription will go up when the Cataclysm hits.
Yes every thing that has been written has been done in a manner to make it appear to the vast majority of people that all of the changes are for the better.Now I am not saying that you in particular are falling into a mindless stupor over all of the new shinnies that they are throwing out there but that is the general felling I get when I read a post that reflects "all " positive points with no negative. From every thing I have read and seen of Cataclysm it is going to live up to its name .... in a literal sence. It is the closest thing I have ever seen to a NGE event. I no longer play wow for the sames reasons as are mention in the original post but I also dont wish an NGE event on any game player especialy one they have to pay for. At least in SWG we didnt have to pay for the NGE but it appears that Blizzard has managed to mask their NGE with a few new things that being the races and fly areas in all of the world maps other than that it all smell of NGE crap to me. I was at one point excited about the expansion and rolling a worgen hunter but that time has past. I hope those of you who are looking forward to the expansion are right and I am so very wrong, but the path Blizzard has been on lately with WOW leads me to believe this will be a true cataclysm for WOW. It may not be sudden but then the black plague didnt wipe out half of the known worlds population in one week either. I whole heartily believe this will put WOW on a slow and painful track to an eventual death. Who knows it may be what they are planning ,lol, so they can free up resources for the next gen game they are developing LOL. Again though seriously I hope I am dead wrong and this expansion does wonders for the game and those who still play but I for one have been sober for a year plus and plan to remain as such.
I'm not saying that everything in WoW is good and there are no negatives at all. Some things could be better such as more lore characters being involved in the Lich King fight. The community could be better and I wish GearScore would cease to exist.
About the NGE, we won't really know what will happen until Cataclysm is release but so far, all the changes I have seen are for the better. Some people may call the removal of stats as dumbing down the game but I call that as removing something that was very unnessary. And it that place they are replacing them with the new mastery stats.There is nothing fun about having to go to a third party website to see if that gear is really better for you.
Also, people have been crying out for a challenge for prety much all of WoTLK. One change that I HOPE makes it to the live realm is that recently, Blizzard severely buffed the normal mobs in the new zones of Cataclysm in the test server so that now there is actually a real danger of dying even to regular mobs while questing.
Another area that presented itself to me as a way Blizzard is shooting itself in the foot are the "phased" starting areas. Worgen and Goblins, from what I've seen, go through a scripted storyline before they can get out into the present-day Azeroth. This means that every character made for these races will go through the exact same content for the first levels. How likely are people to start alts and run them through the same theme park ride for the numb-teenth time? It also would suggest that rep grinding for those factions will be even longer because a Night Elf will not be able to do those early race-specific quests.
Blizzard has become increasingly dazzled by their own shinies and is losing sight of many of these little things that have kept people logging in for years. I wonder how many of the developers even play their own game anymore.
Where have you been? People have been running alts through the same starting area with the other 10 races for years. At least Blizzard is trying to actually improve the starting area for the other 10 races with better quests and storylines. I know this is enough for me to start new characters in the re-vamped starting area.
Another area that presented itself to me as a way Blizzard is shooting itself in the foot are the "phased" starting areas. Worgen and Goblins, from what I've seen, go through a scripted storyline before they can get out into the present-day Azeroth. This means that every character made for these races will go through the exact same content for the first levels. How likely are people to start alts and run them through the same theme park ride for the numb-teenth time? It also would suggest that rep grinding for those factions will be even longer because a Night Elf will not be able to do those early race-specific quests.
Blizzard has become increasingly dazzled by their own shinies and is losing sight of many of these little things that have kept people logging in for years. I wonder how many of the developers even play their own game anymore.
Where have you been? People have been running alts through the same starting area with the other 10 races for years. At least Blizzard is trying to actually improve the starting area for the other 10 races with better quests and storylines. I know this is enough for me to start new characters in the re-vamped starting area.
What are you talking about? You are aware that the Worgen and Goblin areas are phased and that other races will not be able to start there and do those quests?
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
To be honest... You could have awesome injected intravenous... Would not help, in the rnd you would grow bored of it. And i say that the OP have gotten a lot out of WOW. But for people like him it is time to move on. I have put several MMO's behind me over the years and i know that the day will most likely come for WoW too. But i also know that for every one that falls there is a new person ready to take the place.
As for you LordDraekon... Your argument is badly flawed. Every character go through the exact same story every time they start out. Every Dwarf and gnome do the same quest and story in dun morgoth humans in Goldshire and so on and so forth... The advantage of the Death Knight(they use the same style) Worgen and Goblin is that the story is better told and illustrated. And since they are streamlining the old starting zones even those will feel abit.. newer.
Tawess, for one thing, what I wrote is sheer speculation, but apparently, you've never taken the initiative to run a member of one race to another race's starting area and play from there. Also, those early quests are useful in gaining Reputation with that race. Many of them yield decent Rep and are a much better alternative to turning in Runecloth for 75 Rep a pop. For other race players wanting to do the Goblin or Worgen early quests and gain that Rep, those areas are closed. I fail to see the flaws.
Oh, and the Death Knight themepark ride is fun the first time. After that the luster wears off pretty quickly.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
No offense, but if you really want to understand why you feel the way you do, you should re-read the first three paragraphs you wrote. There's your answer right there.
The game evolved, sure enough, but so did you. It may be "two-faced" as you say, but the same thing happened to you -- you became an elitist player with an over-developed sense of entitlement.
I think the game served you with divorce papers a long time ago, you were just too blind to see it.
The game play changed, the game I bought is gone, there has been no effort to sustain the game I bought in the first place just a slow and methodical push to change my play style. I have not changed, I am still the same as I was when I committed to this path, I still want the same play you gave me when we first met. I can no longer stomach the thought of the two faced nature of your tactics so I want a divorce!
~snip~
You are not alone. By the time Blizzard started rolling out info about Cataclysm, I feel the same way. The hunter I grew with for 5 years is gone. Everything I know about my hunter has been flushed down the drain and Blizzard is forcing me to relearn everything. And I agree, WoW is no longer the game I purchased and I divorced WoW back in June.
Break the chains. Be free.
I understand where the OP is comming from. 6 years is quite some time and expecting WoW to stay at his vanilla status would be a midsummer night's dream. Yes, a lot has changed and not always for the best. What i miss the most is vanilla WoW community. Sadly it's standards today lay deep into the sewers.
As for your comment regarding the hunter i think that you're a bit harsh. For 5 years my Night Elf hunter was my one and only character in WoW. I only abandoned him for me enh shamy when icc came because of no available raid spot. I find the class overhaul in Cata interesting. In fact, it's the only reason for my to purchase the expansion, to level my hunter to the new cap and see all the changes in action.
Tawess, for one thing, what I wrote is sheer speculation, but apparently, you've never taken the initiative to run a member of one race to another race's starting area and play from there. Also, those early quests are useful in gaining Reputation with that race. Many of them yield decent Rep and are a much better alternative to turning in Runecloth for 75 Rep a pop. For other race players wanting to do the Goblin or Worgen early quests and gain that Rep, those areas are closed. I fail to see the flaws. Oh, and the Death Knight themepark ride is fun the first time. After that the luster wears off pretty quickly.
Ofc i have done rep-runs. And i get that part... But we are talking about a faction that most likley will not have rep... Seeing as they move to Nelf rep after level 10-ish
And i still don't get why you bring up the Phased part... it is as bad as the normal areas... But at least it has a storytelling component. All the starters are fun once but then get drab quickly.
yes that is why i left WoW too. after 3 awesome years of discovery and wander the game devolved into an endless gear grind. new expansion only brought a mad race to level cap then gear grind after gear grind. every 3 months new pve and pvp (recycled) gear. the stories all ended up being the same. the new quests just recycled old ones. the new dungeons just like all the 100 old ones you'v spent months farming over and over. the game also has become easier and easier to the point that you dont even need to think anymore.
wile i'm not kidding myself to the point of swearing i wont try Cata i have lost all hope that it will bring back those wander filled nube days were the world was immense and everything was new and exciting. like all things in life WoW got old and all it's left are fun filled memories. time to move on.
I appreciate your comments. Interestingly enough, I started playing MMO's waaay back because they actually (at least back then) do last forever. I still to this day have family members that just don't get why we play. I all too often, as recent as yesterday, get the "so did ya win" from them trying to start small talk after they know i have been playing for a few hours. It's cute to say the least.
I feel that i could play a game like WoW forever if they would continue the gameplay. in 6 years there should be (IMO) two or three times the map, max level, quests etc... Put another way, I should be able to sign on today and have at least some fundamental resemblance of the gameplay that I started with, without having to reroll. Again, fundemental gameplay. The cat expansion does seem cool but the only issue I have is that for the next five levels times however many characters i decide to do the same 5 levels, the gameplay, fundamentally, will cease once the adventure through those five levels is over. Then every time there after I sign on, I will once again be staring at a screen wondering wither or not I like my choices of what to do in this second phase of this two faced, yet once again different game....
On the whole I'm looking forward to Cata but I don't see the end game as anything I will be spending bags of time on. Like the OP, I see WoW as a game of 2 halfs and the fun for me is in the first half these days. I can't stand the gear score spam - as if achievements weren't bad enough! and Cata will not change that and will probably shift the split more over to 40% levelling/60 end-game which in my eyes isn't a good thing.
Cataclysm will be my swan song for WoW. I'm done with it now basically but I've stuck with it since the start so I'm going to see where they take it with Cata.
To be honest I don't think the community as a whole understands the scope of the changes that are going to hit them. I often hear people saying 'I can't wait to fly in the old world and go to my vaourite old haunts'.
Errr. newsflash... they won't exisit come Cataclysm. The world as you know it is going to be turned on it's head. All the quests you know and loved are being removed and replaced, the map is being re-written in a lot of respects. WoW as we know it will not be the same come November. Including talent system changes, changes to how the skills are handed out - no more going to the trainer (which I used to look forward too and will miss TBH) amongst others.
When I heard about the changes to the hunter and warlock classes I stopped playing them. My Lock was already kitted out at 80 but my Hunter was my new alt. I was one of the mugs who rolled a DK at launch in WotLK and got hit with the nerf bat every patch for 18 months until I was left with a dull 'anything-but-a-hero' class. I won't make that mistake again, I'll see where these classes are heading before I put the hours into it taking them to 85. I have 4 other 80's to choose from and a few alts so I'm lucky to have a choice I suppose.
With PvP their focus on raiders (getting best weapons) and Arena ratings was always holding the game back. I'm not convinced the new rated BG's will do anything to fix that and in a lot of respects make it worse. The game will become even more gear score and achievement driven.
So on the whole I'm getting Cata to see what they've done to the game I loved. I'm hoping I will be pleasantly surprised but I seriously doubt they will pull it off. Cata is odds on to be Blizzards NGE.
_________________________________________ You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
The people that designed the game you bought years ago are no longer in charge of designing this game. Different people are making design choices, and they are making all the wrong ones, or at least ones very different from the seeming intent of the original designers.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Ah... Cataclysm... And this is coming from FIRST-HAND experience (I'm not under any kind of NDA).... I'm a WoW veteran, and I hate everything about Cataclysm so far.
It isn't an expansion. It really is a totally new, totally DIFFERENT game. And not in a good way.
So many things have changed, from talents to skills and leveling up... The WoW I beta tested in 04 and played off and on for six years is dead and long gone, and Cataclysm is only furthering that...
It isn't the same game any more, not even close. Blizzard made it, and now Blizzard is murdering it.
I've already cancelled my two accounts, and the fiancee has cancelled hers. We won't be coming back.
I'm back at DDO now, simply because it's a great change of pace, being a mix of FPS/twitch gaming and RPG in an MMO setting, even if they did anally violate D&D rules to high heaven. For me, it's DDO until WH40k, FF14, Secret World, whichever one I have the most fun with.
Honestly, though, I'm looking forward to D3 the most.
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.
The people that designed the game you bought years ago are no longer in charge of designing this game. Different people are making design choices, and they are making all the wrong ones, or at least ones very different from the seeming intent of the original designers.
I got to agree with this. Whilst I like a lot of the new features the expansions have brought, and even some of the later stuff in Vanilla, the original vision has been lost.
A heathly chunk of the team that put WoW together moved on to put various new studios together including Carbine (owned by NCSoft) and Red 5 Studios (to be published by Webzen). Both are worth watching for the future.
Red 5 Studios are going to announce their game at PAX Prime 2010 (Sept 3rd-5th) so by this time next week we should know what they have been up to these last 5 years .
Well, I've been a part of that mob which have been yearing to return to original DAOC (with new graphics, blah, blah) for years now - every time someone's mentioned this on these boards, they are usually hit with a torrent of "Get over it grandad", "try and keep up with the times" , "Why don't you just go and play it if you love it so much?" and so on...
Now, finally, the wow lot are coming on board: "Yeah, it's no longer the game it used to be...", "If only it could be like it was in the beginning.", "Why did they make all these changes?" and so on...
Don't worry, loads of room on the "This sux!" boat, I'll budge up. And get comfy, it's a long old ride...
Realistically, if you manage to play a game for a year, let alone five, now that's a game you loved. If I can pass anything on, it would be:
"Yeah, it's never the same as your first but there's still a load of fun to be had out there - plenty of MMO fish in the sea... dive on in!"
Cataclysm is, in reality, WoW's NGE. The only difference is that Blizzard is feeding out the changes in small, sugar-coated bits instead of changing things overnight without warning like Sony did. I'll buy the box, explore the new world with a Forsaken Hunter and then move on when Guild Wars 2 finally releases. I'm at the stage where I'm tired of paying a game company to develop content for other people.
Sorry, but Cataclysm is not WoW's NGE in anyway. All of the changes in Cataclysm are for the better. WoW's subscription will go up when the Cataclysm hits.
Yes every thing that has been written has been done in a manner to make it appear to the vast majority of people that all of the changes are for the better.Now I am not saying that you in particular are falling into a mindless stupor over all of the new shinnies that they are throwing out there but that is the general felling I get when I read a post that reflects "all " positive points with no negative. From every thing I have read and seen of Cataclysm it is going to live up to its name .... in a literal sence. It is the closest thing I have ever seen to a NGE event. I no longer play wow for the sames reasons as are mention in the original post but I also dont wish an NGE event on any game player especialy one they have to pay for. At least in SWG we didnt have to pay for the NGE but it appears that Blizzard has managed to mask their NGE with a few new things that being the races and fly areas in all of the world maps other than that it all smell of NGE crap to me. I was at one point excited about the expansion and rolling a worgen hunter but that time has past. I hope those of you who are looking forward to the expansion are right and I am so very wrong, but the path Blizzard has been on lately with WOW leads me to believe this will be a true cataclysm for WOW. It may not be sudden but then the black plague didnt wipe out half of the known worlds population in one week either. I whole heartily believe this will put WOW on a slow and painful track to an eventual death. Who knows it may be what they are planning ,lol, so they can free up resources for the next gen game they are developing LOL. Again though seriously I hope I am dead wrong and this expansion does wonders for the game and those who still play but I for one have been sober for a year plus and plan to remain as such.
I'm not saying that everything in WoW is good and there are no negatives at all. Some things could be better such as more lore characters being involved in the Lich King fight. The community could be better and I wish GearScore would cease to exist.
About the NGE, we won't really know what will happen until Cataclysm is release but so far, all the changes I have seen are for the better. Some people may call the removal of stats as dumbing down the game but I call that as removing something that was very unnessary. And it that place they are replacing them with the new mastery stats.There is nothing fun about having to go to a third party website to see if that gear is really better for you.
Also, people have been crying out for a challenge for prety much all of WoTLK. One change that I HOPE makes it to the live realm is that recently, Blizzard severely buffed the normal mobs in the new zones of Cataclysm in the test server so that now there is actually a real danger of dying even to regular mobs while questing.
I will bet you any amount of money.....THAT will not last. It will be the same as it was for the ffive years I played:
People whine until they get what they "want," and then....they don't like that either and start whining all over again.
15% (made up percentages) will LOVE the increased difficulty and 85% will hate it and begin bitching on the forums. They will QQ and rage quit and bitch, whine, and moan, until Blizzard (as usual) caves in and pampers the babies that whine the most. It's been this way for six years now. I don't foresee THAT changing.
Most everything they have done that has ruined the game for many of those that have left it.....was some form of proclaimed "simplification," "streamlining," or yes...just plain dumbing down. Do you think that 5 year old Johnny is going to like that those mean mobs can now kill him? Do you think that Super Casual Chatty Cathy will appreciate mobs being harder? For that matter....some of the powerlevelers will actually whine (mark my words) when something is difficult enough that it SLOWS THEM DOWN on their race to max level.
Blizzard has caved in time and time and time again to whiners, EVEN if it meant changing the game lore (or suspending logic in the story) or whatever else they had to "adjust" to accomodate the squeekiest wheel, so to speak. Do they listen to their customers? Oh sure. But in my opinion....that's not ALWAYS the best policy when it comes to games. I think it can completely derail the creative vision for a game....if allowed to do so.
I don't know. I gave up on Blizzard long long ago. I kept playing for years after that, for many reasons, the most important being that my family, who was new to MMOs....wanted to continue. And we had a LOT of fun together. But in the midst of it all....the gnawing feeling in my stomach never went away. It only kept getting stronger until I finally just couldn't do it any more. As much as I hate to miss the "event" that will end the world of Azeroth as it has been....and I've been there for every expansions live events....for the opening of the gates Ahn Quiraj, for the Dark Portal event, for the Scourge event....etc etc....It makes me sad to miss this one, but.....I refuse to pay Blizzard another red cent.
For me...I have watched them systematically destroy the game (my opinion) for years now. I just don't have the heart to do it any more. And no....I don't believe (because of past experience) that all these changes will "be for the better." Nope. Sorry. I don't buy it. Oh sure...they'll "be for the better" for SOMEONE...it just won't be for me, or, I dare to wager, for a lot of other people like me.
I would normally say that this is common burnout as with any game, except that I have felt the changes over the years just as you have and can attest to the accuracy of your statements that the core game is fundamentally different than it once was. On the outside it appears the same, will have raids, leveling up and quests to cut off bear tails but the end game these days feels totally different, dumbed down and flavorless shadow of what it once was.
I also try and make the best of it, but when was the last time you even needed to use CC in a dungeon, most of the new players aren't even familiar with the word and think aoe taunts and aoe dps spam always won the day. Don't even have to leave town or organize your own parties to do dungeons anymore, so much for manners everyone can be a raging asshole and have others to play with now, it erodes the community base when the best partner you can hope for is merely silent and going through the motions.
I started with EQ. Hours at the keys, waking up with the keyboard imprinted on my forehead and a feeling of dread that I don’t remember where my corpse is or elation that I am alive! An adventure and immersion unparalleled. 5 years and not one raid. Not one. I "think" I may have done an instance or 2 but not sure. Didn't need to in order to live the alternative experience.
I quit because my wife couldn't play it. Vertigo to a horrible level and as a complete non gamer I needed her to crawl into the genre so fast forward to WoW (after a Diablo run to get her hooked 8) ). WoW was graphically different but no Vertigo for the wife; we were gaming together so I grew to love the graphics. Game play was easier, character control, targeting etc... We were gaming together so I learned to appreciate it. I think the real hook was that even though the game was so obviously a step down in immersion, it was entertaining and I had a partner in game so I was committed. I did my best to appreciate the game for what it was and ended up loving the game. The journey became awesome but I could actually walk away for a day and not have withdrawals like in EQ (literally).
Fast forward 6 years or so, I have filled every character slot i have with level 80 toons. I can have my son call me at work and start to tell me what he is supposed to be doing on a particular quest and I can finish his sentence and walk him threw the quest over the phone like giving a visitor directions to the guest bathroom in my house.
So to the point, the first WoW game is great, Discovery, Exploration, questing etc... Awesome. I could sign on everyday for months and not do the same thing twice. The second WoW game sucks, no semblance of the first game (the Journey to End Game?!?!) and do the same thing every day if you have multiple characters that all get locked to a raid every week?
I have realized that at the core I am pissed off that the game play that I pay for monthly has changed from a very fundamental stand point and that is not right.
I try to make the best of it but lets face it, I bought and played a persistent online game world that has a brick wall at the end. The game play changed, the game I bought is gone, there has been no effort to sustain the game I bought in the first place just a slow and methodical push to change my play style. I have not changed, I am still the same as I was when I committed to this path, I still want the same play you gave me when we first met. I can no longer stomach the thought of the two faced nature of your tactics so I want a divorce!
Alright, not that funny but it's the only way I can attempt to vent my point. Is there anyone else that feels the same? OR/AND Is there anyone who has another game that would play like WoW but does not change at the end?
Yes, but what specifically would you say has changed - and why is it for the worse? This is a serious question.
If you have to ask "what has changed," then you haven't been playing WoW long enough....to even understand when any of the old WoW "vets" that were there from day one....try to explain it. If you seriously WANT a run down of what all has changed (and it has been a LOT) then be prepared to do a lot of reading here.
Do you SERIOUSLY want to know what all has changed? Because I can certainly START typing up a post listing things......
Or would you rather wait until yippee logs in and can answer the question, since that's actually who you ASKED?
Comments
Its sad how WoW turned out, not saying its a bad game I did enjoy it to some extent the whole end game grinding marks for tier gear every day, but it does get to you after a bit, TBC and Vanilla you usually had something else going on, even just having to travel to setup a raid was much better than it is now where you drop into the instance at thats it, there was loads of ppl all over even in TBC with flying mounts, you could find ppl everywhere and you had a reason to go to different areas not anymore tho.
Stopped playing wow about 3 months ago mainly because I had the urge to explore and use the game world more in an MMO have yet to find a good replacement tho, ( EVE was good but cant handle ships atm) , cant wait for something to come out that will bring nice polished gameplay with some world interaction and community based around areas instead of just a massive city hub.
Long gone are the days when the two factions used to fight the outside dragons, and there was actually some community interaction in the game world.
This was one of the mirade of reasons I quit WoW, why oh why did they have to give in to the complainers that both factions HAD to have the same classes, I loved the fact the other side had a class we didn't, it gave each side that little advantage, a challenge, then they had to go and take that challenge away.
I've been WoW clean for well over a year now, yes I've had the urge to resub but thankfully as I've started to re-enter my card details I suddenly realise I'l be logging in and standing in one of the major city hubs and wondering for about 20 mins "WTH shall I do, hmm shall I farm reagents for my craft, shall I farm gold to buy reagents for my craft, shall I grind badges for gear upgrades, shall I farm faction for gear upgrades" but each option ends up with me having to grind and grind and grind, no exploration, no immersion, no fun.
So I put the card back in the wallet and go find something else to do, a game of minesweeper
The thing is: wow is just a game. And having entertained the OP for 5 long years, it did well at what it should. The OP had most if not all the fun wow could gave him. It's time to unsub and wait for something "different'".
Ask yourself: Which game could give you so much enterntainment material before you get bored or burnt out??
Yes every thing that has been written has been done in a manner to make it appear to the vast majority of people that all of the changes are for the better.Now I am not saying that you in particular are falling into a mindless stupor over all of the new shinnies that they are throwing out there but that is the general felling I get when I read a post that reflects "all " positive points with no negative. From every thing I have read and seen of Cataclysm it is going to live up to its name .... in a literal sence. It is the closest thing I have ever seen to a NGE event. I no longer play wow for the sames reasons as are mention in the original post but I also dont wish an NGE event on any game player especialy one they have to pay for. At least in SWG we didnt have to pay for the NGE but it appears that Blizzard has managed to mask their NGE with a few new things that being the races and fly areas in all of the world maps other than that it all smell of NGE crap to me. I was at one point excited about the expansion and rolling a worgen hunter but that time has past. I hope those of you who are looking forward to the expansion are right and I am so very wrong, but the path Blizzard has been on lately with WOW leads me to believe this will be a true cataclysm for WOW. It may not be sudden but then the black plague didnt wipe out half of the known worlds population in one week either. I whole heartily believe this will put WOW on a slow and painful track to an eventual death. Who knows it may be what they are planning ,lol, so they can free up resources for the next gen game they are developing LOL. Again though seriously I hope I am dead wrong and this expansion does wonders for the game and those who still play but I for one have been sober for a year plus and plan to remain as such.
I imagine the decision to give each side paladins and shaman was based on balance and design more than giving in to whiners.
Giving each side equall access to all classes gives the designers greater flexibiliy in designing encounters since they can tailor encounters aspects that will include those classes instead of assuming that neither class with be their, because both horde/alliance will be partaking in the content. Seeing that there really wasn't the 10/25 raiding split at the time, I remember how much horde came to appreciate having paladins in a raid setting. There was a whole lot of WOW and OMG going on. Even something as small as rogues having access to hand of salvation was interesting to watch.
Seeing how many other games tried "equal but different" character class approach and watching that blow up decent pvp I think it enhanced pvp at the cost of a little bit of uniqueness.
Personally I thought it was a great idea.
Another area that presented itself to me as a way Blizzard is shooting itself in the foot are the "phased" starting areas. Worgen and Goblins, from what I've seen, go through a scripted storyline before they can get out into the present-day Azeroth. This means that every character made for these races will go through the exact same content for the first levels. How likely are people to start alts and run them through the same theme park ride for the numb-teenth time? It also would suggest that rep grinding for those factions will be even longer because a Night Elf will not be able to do those early race-specific quests.
Blizzard has become increasingly dazzled by their own shinies and is losing sight of many of these little things that have kept people logging in for years. I wonder how many of the developers even play their own game anymore.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I'm not saying that everything in WoW is good and there are no negatives at all. Some things could be better such as more lore characters being involved in the Lich King fight. The community could be better and I wish GearScore would cease to exist.
About the NGE, we won't really know what will happen until Cataclysm is release but so far, all the changes I have seen are for the better. Some people may call the removal of stats as dumbing down the game but I call that as removing something that was very unnessary. And it that place they are replacing them with the new mastery stats.There is nothing fun about having to go to a third party website to see if that gear is really better for you.
Also, people have been crying out for a challenge for prety much all of WoTLK. One change that I HOPE makes it to the live realm is that recently, Blizzard severely buffed the normal mobs in the new zones of Cataclysm in the test server so that now there is actually a real danger of dying even to regular mobs while questing.
Where have you been? People have been running alts through the same starting area with the other 10 races for years. At least Blizzard is trying to actually improve the starting area for the other 10 races with better quests and storylines. I know this is enough for me to start new characters in the re-vamped starting area.
What are you talking about? You are aware that the Worgen and Goblin areas are phased and that other races will not be able to start there and do those quests?
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
As for you LordDraekon... Your argument is badly flawed. Every character go through the exact same story every time they start out. Every Dwarf and gnome do the same quest and story in dun morgoth humans in Goldshire and so on and so forth... The advantage of the Death Knight(they use the same style) Worgen and Goblin is that the story is better told and illustrated. And since they are streamlining the old starting zones even those will feel abit.. newer.
This have been a good conversation
Tawess, for one thing, what I wrote is sheer speculation, but apparently, you've never taken the initiative to run a member of one race to another race's starting area and play from there. Also, those early quests are useful in gaining Reputation with that race. Many of them yield decent Rep and are a much better alternative to turning in Runecloth for 75 Rep a pop. For other race players wanting to do the Goblin or Worgen early quests and gain that Rep, those areas are closed. I fail to see the flaws.
Oh, and the Death Knight themepark ride is fun the first time. After that the luster wears off pretty quickly.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
No offense, but if you really want to understand why you feel the way you do, you should re-read the first three paragraphs you wrote. There's your answer right there.
The game evolved, sure enough, but so did you. It may be "two-faced" as you say, but the same thing happened to you -- you became an elitist player with an over-developed sense of entitlement.
I think the game served you with divorce papers a long time ago, you were just too blind to see it.
I understand where the OP is comming from. 6 years is quite some time and expecting WoW to stay at his vanilla status would be a midsummer night's dream. Yes, a lot has changed and not always for the best. What i miss the most is vanilla WoW community. Sadly it's standards today lay deep into the sewers.
As for your comment regarding the hunter i think that you're a bit harsh. For 5 years my Night Elf hunter was my one and only character in WoW. I only abandoned him for me enh shamy when icc came because of no available raid spot. I find the class overhaul in Cata interesting. In fact, it's the only reason for my to purchase the expansion, to level my hunter to the new cap and see all the changes in action.
Ofc i have done rep-runs. And i get that part... But we are talking about a faction that most likley will not have rep... Seeing as they move to Nelf rep after level 10-ishAnd i still don't get why you bring up the Phased part... it is as bad as the normal areas... But at least it has a storytelling component. All the starters are fun once but then get drab quickly.
This have been a good conversation
to OP
yes that is why i left WoW too. after 3 awesome years of discovery and wander the game devolved into an endless gear grind. new expansion only brought a mad race to level cap then gear grind after gear grind. every 3 months new pve and pvp (recycled) gear. the stories all ended up being the same. the new quests just recycled old ones. the new dungeons just like all the 100 old ones you'v spent months farming over and over. the game also has become easier and easier to the point that you dont even need to think anymore.
wile i'm not kidding myself to the point of swearing i wont try Cata i have lost all hope that it will bring back those wander filled nube days were the world was immense and everything was new and exciting. like all things in life WoW got old and all it's left are fun filled memories. time to move on.
I appreciate your comments. Interestingly enough, I started playing MMO's waaay back because they actually (at least back then) do last forever. I still to this day have family members that just don't get why we play. I all too often, as recent as yesterday, get the "so did ya win" from them trying to start small talk after they know i have been playing for a few hours. It's cute to say the least.
I feel that i could play a game like WoW forever if they would continue the gameplay. in 6 years there should be (IMO) two or three times the map, max level, quests etc... Put another way, I should be able to sign on today and have at least some fundamental resemblance of the gameplay that I started with, without having to reroll. Again, fundemental gameplay. The cat expansion does seem cool but the only issue I have is that for the next five levels times however many characters i decide to do the same 5 levels, the gameplay, fundamentally, will cease once the adventure through those five levels is over. Then every time there after I sign on, I will once again be staring at a screen wondering wither or not I like my choices of what to do in this second phase of this two faced, yet once again different game....
On the whole I'm looking forward to Cata but I don't see the end game as anything I will be spending bags of time on. Like the OP, I see WoW as a game of 2 halfs and the fun for me is in the first half these days. I can't stand the gear score spam - as if achievements weren't bad enough! and Cata will not change that and will probably shift the split more over to 40% levelling/60 end-game which in my eyes isn't a good thing.
Cataclysm will be my swan song for WoW. I'm done with it now basically but I've stuck with it since the start so I'm going to see where they take it with Cata.
To be honest I don't think the community as a whole understands the scope of the changes that are going to hit them. I often hear people saying 'I can't wait to fly in the old world and go to my vaourite old haunts'.
Errr. newsflash... they won't exisit come Cataclysm. The world as you know it is going to be turned on it's head. All the quests you know and loved are being removed and replaced, the map is being re-written in a lot of respects. WoW as we know it will not be the same come November. Including talent system changes, changes to how the skills are handed out - no more going to the trainer (which I used to look forward too and will miss TBH) amongst others.
When I heard about the changes to the hunter and warlock classes I stopped playing them. My Lock was already kitted out at 80 but my Hunter was my new alt. I was one of the mugs who rolled a DK at launch in WotLK and got hit with the nerf bat every patch for 18 months until I was left with a dull 'anything-but-a-hero' class. I won't make that mistake again, I'll see where these classes are heading before I put the hours into it taking them to 85. I have 4 other 80's to choose from and a few alts so I'm lucky to have a choice I suppose.
With PvP their focus on raiders (getting best weapons) and Arena ratings was always holding the game back. I'm not convinced the new rated BG's will do anything to fix that and in a lot of respects make it worse. The game will become even more gear score and achievement driven.
So on the whole I'm getting Cata to see what they've done to the game I loved. I'm hoping I will be pleasantly surprised but I seriously doubt they will pull it off. Cata is odds on to be Blizzards NGE.
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You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
The reason is simple.
The people that designed the game you bought years ago are no longer in charge of designing this game. Different people are making design choices, and they are making all the wrong ones, or at least ones very different from the seeming intent of the original designers.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
Ah... Cataclysm... And this is coming from FIRST-HAND experience (I'm not under any kind of NDA).... I'm a WoW veteran, and I hate everything about Cataclysm so far.
It isn't an expansion. It really is a totally new, totally DIFFERENT game. And not in a good way.
So many things have changed, from talents to skills and leveling up... The WoW I beta tested in 04 and played off and on for six years is dead and long gone, and Cataclysm is only furthering that...
It isn't the same game any more, not even close. Blizzard made it, and now Blizzard is murdering it.
I've already cancelled my two accounts, and the fiancee has cancelled hers. We won't be coming back.
I'm back at DDO now, simply because it's a great change of pace, being a mix of FPS/twitch gaming and RPG in an MMO setting, even if they did anally violate D&D rules to high heaven. For me, it's DDO until WH40k, FF14, Secret World, whichever one I have the most fun with.
Honestly, though, I'm looking forward to D3 the most.
True mages don't die. They strategically miscalculate.
I got to agree with this. Whilst I like a lot of the new features the expansions have brought, and even some of the later stuff in Vanilla, the original vision has been lost.
A heathly chunk of the team that put WoW together moved on to put various new studios together including Carbine (owned by NCSoft) and Red 5 Studios (to be published by Webzen). Both are worth watching for the future.
Red 5 Studios are going to announce their game at PAX Prime 2010 (Sept 3rd-5th) so by this time next week we should know what they have been up to these last 5 years
.
Carbine have an interview here outlining their upcoming game: http://vault.ign.com/View.php?view=editorials.detail&id=268
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You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
Thanks all for this, made me smile...
Why?
Well, I've been a part of that mob which have been yearing to return to original DAOC (with new graphics, blah, blah) for years now - every time someone's mentioned this on these boards, they are usually hit with a torrent of "Get over it grandad", "try and keep up with the times" , "Why don't you just go and play it if you love it so much?" and so on...
Now, finally, the wow lot are coming on board: "Yeah, it's no longer the game it used to be...", "If only it could be like it was in the beginning.", "Why did they make all these changes?" and so on...
Don't worry, loads of room on the "This sux!" boat, I'll budge up. And get comfy, it's a long old ride...
Realistically, if you manage to play a game for a year, let alone five, now that's a game you loved. If I can pass anything on, it would be:
"Yeah, it's never the same as your first but there's still a load of fun to be had out there - plenty of MMO fish in the sea... dive on in!"
Wishing you all the best in your next choice!
I will bet you any amount of money.....THAT will not last. It will be the same as it was for the ffive years I played:
People whine until they get what they "want," and then....they don't like that either and start whining all over again.
15% (made up percentages) will LOVE the increased difficulty and 85% will hate it and begin bitching on the forums. They will QQ and rage quit and bitch, whine, and moan, until Blizzard (as usual) caves in and pampers the babies that whine the most. It's been this way for six years now. I don't foresee THAT changing.
Most everything they have done that has ruined the game for many of those that have left it.....was some form of proclaimed "simplification," "streamlining," or yes...just plain dumbing down. Do you think that 5 year old Johnny is going to like that those mean mobs can now kill him? Do you think that Super Casual Chatty Cathy will appreciate mobs being harder? For that matter....some of the powerlevelers will actually whine (mark my words) when something is difficult enough that it SLOWS THEM DOWN on their race to max level.
Blizzard has caved in time and time and time again to whiners, EVEN if it meant changing the game lore (or suspending logic in the story) or whatever else they had to "adjust" to accomodate the squeekiest wheel, so to speak. Do they listen to their customers? Oh sure. But in my opinion....that's not ALWAYS the best policy when it comes to games. I think it can completely derail the creative vision for a game....if allowed to do so.
I don't know. I gave up on Blizzard long long ago. I kept playing for years after that, for many reasons, the most important being that my family, who was new to MMOs....wanted to continue. And we had a LOT of fun together. But in the midst of it all....the gnawing feeling in my stomach never went away. It only kept getting stronger until I finally just couldn't do it any more. As much as I hate to miss the "event" that will end the world of Azeroth as it has been....and I've been there for every expansions live events....for the opening of the gates Ahn Quiraj, for the Dark Portal event, for the Scourge event....etc etc....It makes me sad to miss this one, but.....I refuse to pay Blizzard another red cent.
For me...I have watched them systematically destroy the game (my opinion) for years now. I just don't have the heart to do it any more. And no....I don't believe (because of past experience) that all these changes will "be for the better." Nope. Sorry. I don't buy it. Oh sure...they'll "be for the better" for SOMEONE...it just won't be for me, or, I dare to wager, for a lot of other people like me.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I would normally say that this is common burnout as with any game, except that I have felt the changes over the years just as you have and can attest to the accuracy of your statements that the core game is fundamentally different than it once was. On the outside it appears the same, will have raids, leveling up and quests to cut off bear tails but the end game these days feels totally different, dumbed down and flavorless shadow of what it once was.
I also try and make the best of it, but when was the last time you even needed to use CC in a dungeon, most of the new players aren't even familiar with the word and think aoe taunts and aoe dps spam always won the day. Don't even have to leave town or organize your own parties to do dungeons anymore, so much for manners everyone can be a raging asshole and have others to play with now, it erodes the community base when the best partner you can hope for is merely silent and going through the motions.
Yes, but what specifically would you say has changed - and why is it for the worse? This is a serious question.
If you have to ask "what has changed," then you haven't been playing WoW long enough....to even understand when any of the old WoW "vets" that were there from day one....try to explain it. If you seriously WANT a run down of what all has changed (and it has been a LOT) then be prepared to do a lot of reading here.
Do you SERIOUSLY want to know what all has changed? Because I can certainly START typing up a post listing things......
Or would you rather wait until yippee logs in and can answer the question, since that's actually who you ASKED?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club