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We all want a WoW Killer, But is it WOW that it will really Kill, or the Genre itself?

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  • AzzatakyAzzataky Member UncommonPosts: 208

    I hope noone wants WoW "killer" because than would WoW players ( imo worst MMO community of all whom I met so far ) go to other MMOs. WoW is simply an solo game with some multiplayer content. And I dont want solo players to play game which I like - because I like true multiplayer games - means focused on group content.. So I hope WoW players will be always at WoW or at least at other "solo friendly" MMO.

     

    EDIT: Btw saying WoW is best MMO is like if someone would say Lady Gaga is best singer in the world because she has now so many fans.. (not sure who has most fans) Being best in something doesnt mean you have most fans. :) Moslty "most fan" thing is just most friendly for customers in its branch.

    EDIT 2: Almost forgot, imo best mmo now and for many years is EvE online. Even if I play Guild Wars and I've never played so much EvE because my gf wouldnt like it. Still it has best customer "service" with its kinda customers senate and it will be much more better after Dust. Most companies care about number of players - like Blizz is doing but CCP cares about theirs fans.. and that should be done by all companies.

    Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
    Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
    Playing: CS:GO

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,028

    Originally posted by Azzataky

    I hope noone wants WoW "killer" because than would WoW players ( imo worst MMO community of all whom I met so far ) go to other MMOs. WoW is simply an solo game with some multiplayer content. And I dont want solo players to play game which I like - because I like true multiplayer games - means focused on group content.. So I hope WoW players will be always at WoW or at least at other "solo friendly" MMO.

     

    EDIT: Btw saying WoW is best MMO is like if someone would say Lady Gaga is best singer in the world because she has now so many fans.. (not sure who has most fans) Being best in something doesnt mean you have most fans. :) Moslty "most fan" thing is just most friendly for customers in its branch.

    EDIT 2: Almost forgot, imo best mmo now and for many years is EvE online. Even if I play Guild Wars and I've never played so much EvE because my gf wouldnt like it. Still it has best customer "service" with its kinda customers senate and it will be much more better after Dust. Most companies care about number of players - like Blizz is doing but CCP cares about theirs fans.. and that should be done by all companies.

    what? Guild wars is more Solo than WoW is

    image

  • foulu625foulu625 Member Posts: 177

    Originally posted by docminus

    Originally posted by foulu625

    I would enjoy seeing a game steal a huge chunk of WoW's crowd, only for the fact that Blizzard doesn't care about them and doesn't work for it's customers. They churn out as little as they possibly can and just sit upon that huge stack of cash. I believe in being rewarded for hard work, which Blizzard does not do. I'm glad it came out because it opened the genre that much more, but if they don't decide to put forth the effort others with far less capital are doing, then I find myself rooting for each new MMO that has a chance. The odds are slim, as most people play WoW to play with their friends and guilds. It's why I played, and it's why most of my old guild still plays. Most have expressed how little they actually enjoy the game anymore. All I propose is change, whether on Blizzard's front, the consumer's eyes, or within the MMO genre. Change is hard fought for though, so whatever MMO does manage to capture Blizz's audience they've taken for granted will have to put forth such an astounding effort just to start off.

    Is that personal experience? At least from the support side, I never had a problem with Blizzard products. Can't say of anything though when it comes to game content/mechanics wishes/demands/expectations, but I doubt that with 11 million people you can get it right for all?

    Otherwise I have the same sentiments as you, with regards to why I "still-play-WoW-although-I-am-bored-at-times".

    One thing is certain, hype, and pre-released games won't catch the attention of any audience for long, or at all.

    Yes. I played the game from opening day, off and on until the cheap raid they threw on to balance out gear after Ulduar before LK. The support side isn't too far one way or the other. Though 99% of their time goes into restoring hacked accounts days later after they were hacked (not the best reason to miss a raid), and that's with the authenticator being sold cheaply. The expectations part just kinda falls into the degradation of quality. It started off a strong MMO and had something to offer for everyone. It stayed strong then BC came out and added just enough things that you didn't get too bored for a while (though their money grinding for epic flight was pretty transparent.) and about halfway through that, they ran out of things to do. Again it was a "sit in Shatt with no idea what to do because PvP is all sorts of muddled and confused, and grinding the same instances you were doing when the xpack came out for new badges doesn't sound fun." moment. Then WOTLK came, and again, it was fun for a while, but more shortlived than BC. ToC should be blatantly obvious that they just don't care anymore. It was a "raid" in that, you fought bosses and got loot, but there was no depth. You just went in and fought monsters in a coliseum and I realize "that was the point" but it's also lack of initiative because the overall component was petty and shallow. With as much capital as WoW has, there should be no dry spells of content before some lackluster grindfest is tacked on. EQ comes out with new xpacks every 6 months, each with more than WoW's 2 years xpacks+patches. Still no player housing, PvP boils down to flavor of the month, specs also. It's become so watered down that it's merely "doing your job" instead of actually having a roleplaying fun time. For 11 million customers, they can do better. When you think about it though, the number of people such as ourselves that play that game are only much smaller percentage of that. A grand majority is casual players (and little kids that drive you insane) that only play because it's what people play. The entire concept of it anymore is draconic and out of date. When your game becomes just "something people do" instead of "something people enjoy and experience", something needs to change. Unfortunately Blizzard is perfectly content redoing the same thing they've already done and calling it progress.

  • AzzatakyAzzataky Member UncommonPosts: 208

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    Originally posted by Azzataky

    I hope noone wants WoW "killer" because than would WoW players ( imo worst MMO community of all whom I met so far ) go to other MMOs. WoW is simply an solo game with some multiplayer content. And I dont want solo players to play game which I like - because I like true multiplayer games - means focused on group content.. So I hope WoW players will be always at WoW or at least at other "solo friendly" MMO.

     

    EDIT: Btw saying WoW is best MMO is like if someone would say Lady Gaga is best singer in the world because she has now so many fans.. (not sure who has most fans) Being best in something doesnt mean you have most fans. :) Moslty "most fan" thing is just most friendly for customers in its branch.

    EDIT 2: Almost forgot, imo best mmo now and for many years is EvE online. Even if I play Guild Wars and I've never played so much EvE because my gf wouldnt like it. Still it has best customer "service" with its kinda customers senate and it will be much more better after Dust. Most companies care about number of players - like Blizz is doing but CCP cares about theirs fans.. and that should be done by all companies.

    what? Guild wars is more Solo than WoW is

    Guild Wars has henchman yea.. but GW is supposed to be a group game at all. Since heroes came its true you can do well at 2 players with heroes but mostly full player group means a lot more than 2 players. Some mission are not soloable at all and if we would be talking about HM... you rly need help with that. You can solo WoW to 80 but you cant get througth GW solo. (maybe if you would try a lot combinations of henches and heroes at some mission) :) Also if you have big group for WoW maps its boring because those maps are mostly build for soloing so for more players its easy as hell (even solo sometimes) but GW maps are build for group.. ;) If you CAN take henches doesnt mean you HAVE TO play with em all the time.

    Played: Lineage 2,Guild Wars 1 and 2, Age of Conan, Ragnarok Online, LOTRO, World of Warcraft, League of Legends, EvE online
    Tried: KAL Online, Face of Mankind, ROSE online
    Playing: CS:GO

  • WarmakerWarmaker Member UncommonPosts: 2,244

    With WoW's success, the MMORPG genre IMO has become stale bread with ho-hum variety.

    If the "WoW Killer" kills that kind of genre, I say:   So be it.

    "I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)

  • BroomyBroomy Member UncommonPosts: 487

    I really wish people would stop blaming WOW for the sheer fact that there are too many Developers out there with no imagination and market savvy.  Blizzard does what it is does well, and right now, it's doing it better than anyone else hence the amount of subs to ALL the games it develops and publishes.   

     

    Whats needed is for someone to come out with  something GOOD, and that appeals to more than just a handful of niche fanatics (I'm looking at you FE!).  There has to be a balance between innovation AND mass appeal, because no matter how much people claim to love these "niche" games, if the Devs can't make money due to low subs, they can't continue to run the game.  And this simple fact is a point that many niche fans seem to completely forget. 

     

    WOW didn't do anything wrong to gamers or the genre.

    WOW did all the right things to ensure it's continued success.

     

    It is the LACK of innovation, imagination AND Market savvy of other developers that causes the issues in this genre of gaming.

     

    Leave WOW alone already. 

     

    Current Games: WOW, EVE Online

  • nAAtimusnAAtimus Member Posts: 342

    Originally posted by Torment1982

    The reason you are struggling with the concept is because you are trying to give legitimacy to a term with no meaning.

    Exactly. "WoW Killer" is an undefined abstraction, subjectively interpretted by the individual.

    I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.

  • PudsyPudsy Member Posts: 34

    Stupid post lies.... I dont want a wow killer, I like wow.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Broomy

    I really wish people would stop blaming WOW for the sheer fact that there are too many Developers out there with no imagination and market savvy.  Blizzard does what it is does well, and right now, it's doing it better than anyone else hence the amount of subs to ALL the games it develops and publishes.   

    Whats needed is for someone to come out with  something GOOD, and that appeals to more than just a handful of niche fanatics (I'm looking at you FE!).  There has to be a balance between innovation AND mass appeal, because no matter how much people claim to love these "niche" games, if the Devs can't make money due to low subs, they can't continue to run the game.  And this simple fact is a point that many niche fans seem to completely forget. 

    WOW didn't do anything wrong to gamers or the genre.

    WOW did all the right things to ensure it's continued success.

    It is the LACK of innovation, imagination AND Market savvy of other developers that causes the issues in this genre of gaming.

    Leave WOW alone already. 

    Agreed. And the thread "We want all a Wow killer" is somewhat stupid anyways, "We want some better games" is the truth.

    I think mass appeal isn't the problem however, those niche games just isn't fun enough. If something really is fun it will sell even if it is rather complicated and harder than the average game. 

    And you also forget one important thing: lack of competent programmers. Several games with good potential have tanked because of that, Vanguard to mention one. You can make the best and most fun game in the world but if it was programmed like VG it still wouldn't get big.

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441

    Originally posted by Azzataky

    Guild Wars has henchman yea.. but GW is supposed to be a group game at all. Since heroes came its true you can do well at 2 players with heroes but mostly full player group means a lot more than 2 players. Some mission are not soloable at all and if we would be talking about HM... you rly need help with that. You can solo WoW to 80 but you cant get througth GW solo. (maybe if you would try a lot combinations of henches and heroes at some mission) :) Also if you have big group for WoW maps its boring because those maps are mostly build for soloing so for more players its easy as hell (even solo sometimes) but GW maps are build for group.. ;) If you CAN take henches doesnt mean you HAVE TO play with em all the time.

    Well, you are right even if you can solo to 20 (particularly in factions, there you can get to 20 really fast). There are some missions you can't solo and in hardmode it would be close to impossible.

    The stuff between the missions is another thing however. GW is fine when you duo (*cept hard mode), we used to farm Obsidian duo but I wouldn't want to solo that. The AI is really good but not as good as an actual person.

  • endersshadowendersshadow Member Posts: 296

    Originally posted by dreamscaper

    I don't want a WoW killer, I just want WoW to quit dominating the genre so thoroughly that game publishers insist on copying everything it does and that I'm tired of, rather than trying new and unique gameplay and game design.

    I agree.

     

    But heres the rub, until game designers try building a mmo with unique gameplay and game design, WoW will dominate the genre. 

  • tu_uilwentu_uilwen Member Posts: 794

    I like wow personally, and I like other mmo's as well. There is no reason to have a wow killer, everyone will play the MMO of their choice. Does it make it difficult to play your choice mmo sometimes due to wow yeah probably. But what can really be done about it, so why write these arguments over and over. WoW is a very successful game and universe. WoW works because they listen to there fan base, some times its for the worst sometimes for the best. But WoW works for a reason and that is why the game is so successful and kills other games.

    I think it is funny, for the simple fact that Blizzard entered the MMORPG world with their first mmo being WoW and they are the most successful company and mmorpg on the market in the world. And you know why? because they do not rush their product and they listen to the fans and actually make changes to what the people want to see and it keeps people playing.

    They have good pvp, different pvp scenarios, alot of raid content, guild support. And they just keep adding to all this.

    ---------------------------------------------
    WoW
    -Rhalon 85 B.E. rogue
    -Rhalon 81 UD Mage
    -Doneski 85 Orc death knight

    "Everyones life has a beginning and an end, No one can change that."-Hiko
    "If you wish to taste the ground, then feel free to attack."-Kenshin Himura
    ---------------------------------------------
    image

  • AmarandesAmarandes Member Posts: 104

    I do not want a WoW killer. I hope for WoW to remain strong and still running 10 years from now. What I do want is for new MMOs like SWTOR and GW2 to succeed and bring something fresh to the MMO industry.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    We all want a WoW Killer, but is it WOW that it will really kill, or the genre itself?



     

    You kind of lost credibility when you said DAoC was an EQ clone. 

     

    Though, to answer your question, duh. WoW killed the genre already. Why do you think its been stagnant since 2004? I can name the number of innovations that didn't come from indie devs on ONE hand.

  • JoliustJoliust Member Posts: 1,329

    The idea behind "WoW Killer" is that there will be a game so great that it will sap subs from WoW. I don't think we really care about WoW, we just want a game so great that it could pull many older MMO's player base.

    Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by Broomy

    I really wish people would stop blaming WOW for the sheer fact that there are too many Developers out there with no imagination and market savvy. 

    Blizzard did the same thing. Can you name more than one unique idea Blizzard has come up with in WoW that wasn't done by another developer better and first? Doubt it. Only difference is Blizzard has a huge marketing budget. 

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by Joliust

    The idea behind "WoW Killer" is that there will be a game so great that it will sap subs from WoW. I don't think we really care about WoW, we just want a game so great that it could pull many older MMO's player base.

    A great MMO wouldn't be able to sap WoW. WoW players are WoW players. They're interested in WoW and probably have no idea the genre even exists. If a great game came along, WoW would keep going with its casual WoW players, and REAL MMORPG gamers would shift to the great game. For something to appeal to WoW players more than WoW itself... I don't want to touch that MMO. 

  • rhinokrhinok Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Originally posted by Garvon3

    Originally posted by Broomy

    I really wish people would stop blaming WOW for the sheer fact that there are too many Developers out there with no imagination and market savvy. 

    Blizzard did the same thing. Can you name more than one unique idea Blizzard has come up with in WoW that wasn't done by another developer better and first? Doubt it. Only difference is Blizzard has a huge marketing budget. 


    • Corpse recovery - compared to EQ, it's so much better

    • UI - same - easier, more intuitive than prior games

    • Auction House - not more standing in the EK tunnels shouting for trade

    WoW made MMORPGs accessible to more players, simplified the UI, made the game visually appealing to a wider audience and made the overall play friendlier.   When they did it, they weren't as huge as they are now and didn't have near the budget. You may not like WoW, but I feel it's partly the reason so many MMOs exist today, why websites like mmorpg.com and massively.com exist, etc.. Without that giant elephant in the room, the industry would be very, very different...


     


    As for there being a "WoW killer", it's close to impossible.  Why?  Because so many players have so much time and money "invested" in playing WoW, that unless a new game is so good, polished and complete from launch, WoW players will simply migrate back to WoW because it's easier and more comfortable.  Why level up a new character in a game that has issues at launch  and is very much like WoW in many aspects (WAR, for example) when you already have a level 80 in WoW and there's a new expansion coming out?  In order for any new game to kill WoW, it'll have to be perfect at launch.


     


    Frankly, if there's any game that could challenge WoW's dominance, it might be Copernicus, and that's really only due to the names attached to it (Curt Schilling, R.A. Salvatore and Todd McFarlane).  Even then, I don't think it'll knock WoW down from its throne. Copernicus needs to be a giant success, in general, though. Anything less, even moderate success, and it'll still be a failure to many players because of the time it's taken to develop it and bring it to market, it's famous figures , how much money has gone into it, etc...  It's either a home run or it's a strike for many players...


     


    ~Ripper

  • KaocanKaocan Member UncommonPosts: 1,270

    Originally posted by Malcanis

    I dont know about you guys but my enjoyiment of a game is mainly determined by how many people play it. If that number doubles overnight, so does my enjoyment of the game. People who play unpopular games are just being contrary haters. And they're dumb. And stupid.

     Love the poeple who think the number of mindless sheep who follow one another in droves some how makes thier chosen diversions to be better than the individual thinkers.

    You go ahead and drive your Prius and enjoy it man, I'll stick to my Mercedes.

    (DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  • MithiosMithios Member Posts: 271

    It's not wow that needs killing, it's the mindset of those that want instant gritification that needs changing. If that were to happen, then wow would fall.

    A tiny mind is a tidy mind...

  • djazzydjazzy Member Posts: 3,578

    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    We all want a WoW Killer

     No, I really don't.

    I could care less what WoW does. I just want an entertaining game to play.

  • kingtommyboykingtommyboy Member Posts: 543

    Originally posted by zymurgeist

     






    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    We all want a WoW Killer



     




    Actually no we don't. To some of us WoW is irrelevant. Next time keep your hubris in check and speak for yourself.

    /agree

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    waiting for ... nothing..

  • WarbandWarband Member UncommonPosts: 723

    It's not a difficult concept. The reason the mmorpg genre is the way it is, is because WoW pretty much has a monopoly over it. Simply completely replacing will just cause a new monopoly to be formed. What is needed is a group of games to all be roughly equally successful. That way people have a choice of high quality, and well populated mmo's to play which WoW is currently preventing since it pretty much holds the genre ina gridlock.

    If there is group of roughly games with roughly the same success variation is encouraged as there is simply not just one game to potenial copy but many. Competition also occurs between the the most successful games as they wish surpass their opposition.

  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,111

    WoW is like ancient Rome, it can only destroy itself and other mmos will always just be minor contributing factors. having 1/4-1/3 of their subscribers being gold farmers is a healthy start though...

  • Garvon3Garvon3 Member CommonPosts: 2,898

    Originally posted by rhinok

    Originally posted by Garvon3


    Originally posted by Broomy

    I really wish people would stop blaming WOW for the sheer fact that there are too many Developers out there with no imagination and market savvy. 

    Blizzard did the same thing. Can you name more than one unique idea Blizzard has come up with in WoW that wasn't done by another developer better and first? Doubt it. Only difference is Blizzard has a huge marketing budget. 


    • Corpse recovery - compared to EQ, it's so much better

    • UI - same - easier, more intuitive than prior games

    • Auction House - not more standing in the EK tunnels shouting for trade

    WoW made MMORPGs accessible to more players, simplified the UI, made the game visually appealing to a wider audience and made the overall play friendlier.   When they did it, they weren't as huge as they are now and didn't have near the budget. 

    /facepalm

     

    You realize EQ wasn't the only other MMORPG before WoW, right? 

    DAoC had a 100% customizable UI. A better UI could not be found. 

    There were no corpse runs in most games. 

    The auction house also wasn't new. There are much better systems than the auction house too, like the Bazaar and the DAoC consignment merchants, that actually stimulate some kind of economy. 

     

    And oh you better believe Blizzard had the budget. Warcraft and Starcraft and Diablo were HUGE. That's the reason WoW took off, Blizzard had lots of brand recognition and bombarded the internet for a good solid year before WoW's launch. 

     

    And for everyone that likes WoW's low poly cartoon graphics, theres more that hate it. They DID make it accesible to low end computers though. 

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