Well, since WoW is the worlds largest baby sitter I would imagine that college and sex is the next big adventure for WoW players.
Real Life is the most grinding game i have ever seen. And it sucks in several aspects.
- PVP: It's just fun if you are playing with an overpowered class. Otherwise you can suffer the "Broken Bones" debuff and being unable to play PVP again for several months. Or even you can lose your character and all of its progress. The GM doesn't reimburse anything from player harassment.
- PVE: Sucks, it's too "grindy", you must do the same things every day. There are annoying quest like sleeping for several hours, you must pay attention to your stats, they can decrease if you don't eat and drink too often. Sometimes you suffer a sickness debuff for no reason. And sometimes, you are obliged to complete certain quests, with no rewards after them, and serious penalties if you don't.
- Joining a guild requires to farm a lot of reputation with certain factions. Sometimes you must complete humiliating quests and, when you get in, you haven't any guaranties of rising your rank, regardless your performance or available time to spend for them.
- The housing system sucks, it's grindier than an asian MMO. Even you can lose all your assets randomly, and the insurance doesn't pay the original costs, just the actual costs.
- The flirting (and marrying) system(s) really sucks. You need to complete enormous quest chains, farm tons of reputation with just one NPC. And even in the best case, randomly, you can fail and need to start again from the beginning with other NPC. Neither you can use any kind of "undo" option or anything.
Fortunately, lag is almost zero. The host must be a huge computer hall.
Oh hell yeah, I've been wanting to delete this Real Life game off my harddrive for years but I can't seem to find where I installed it. Talk about not getting a finished game when it came out.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I wouldn't say its the holy grail, in fact, the majority of original MMORPG gamers wouldn't.
What you meant to say is the majority of people who are bored sheep, whilst at the same time living in a world filled with nostalgic, rose-tinted views who are taken in by the recent wave of hatred for WoW wouldn't agree. Please stop living in the past, and go play those beloved candles of yours if they were so good. Nothing will make them ever again.
Thanks.
Also, what comes after WoW? Nothing at present, quite frankly. DarkFall is in theory quite neat but is essentially just a massive inconvenience. A lot of other games are similar to WoW but lack its content, polish or both. EVE, for me, didn't work at all. The "next-gen" MMOs might do something, but don't hold your breath on FF14. I'd say go play other things, other genres, and wait for Cata, then TOR/GW2/Rift. Those four are the future.
RIFT was a *crushing* disappointment; a shallow, loveless, generic MMO the likes of which hasn't been seen in a P2P format since, well, forever.
EVE it's a good game, if you want to compete in a sand-box enviroment, this is a game for you. But if you suck at this, or you enjoy the sand-box style in single player, you won't enjoy EVE probably.
I played a lot of years, but i got bored very often.
I get it, so because I played WoW I automatically have no life. These forums just get worse and worse!
Thanks to the 2 people who actually wrote something useful.
Actually no, you may have a life outside WoW, but how would we know. How many characters do your have at lvl 80? How many of them have over T5 gear on them? How many crafts are capp'd on skill? How many Exhaulted reps do they each have? How many Achievements do each of them have? Had we known the answers to those we might be able to determine that you had a life outside WoW. BUT...since all you did was ask what was after WoW, and you called it the Holy Grail of MMOs, well you should have expected some smart assed responses. Not all of us think WoW is the best thing since sliced bread. To me, even though I did play it for about 4 years, its about 8th down the ladder on my scale of MMOs. So finding something to do after you leave that game shouldnt' be that hard, if your willing to actually go out and try something new.
Kaocan.... I should have known if FF was mentioned youd smell it and come to the cause. If from what you are sayen, this is what determines whether or not you have a life then I suppose I don't. I only did 2 tours with the army overseas and am now a full time college student at Kennesaw (near your neck of the woods), yet I have many 80's with caps etc etc. The games been out a long time and I have had some down time while actually doing something meaningful. There are indeed real people out there in the world and I can say that I haven't been in a small group since 2005. I get enough of them at work/school I want to not be made to feel like I have no life because I enjoy my escapes into the MMO world. Sorry had to get that out cause you seem like an ass in a lotta your posts and offer verry little actual feedback. I know the OP take on the subject because I have left WoW twice already just to find one dissapointment or another in mmo's and come back becaue my wife enjoys it there. And I enjoy my wifes happiness caue it makes me happy. Not sure what to recommend since I have yet to find somethig else to hold my attention. I have plans to play a couple when they release, not sure till then.
I get it, so because I played WoW I automatically have no life. These forums just get worse and worse!
Thanks to the 2 people who actually wrote something useful.
Actually no, you may have a life outside WoW, but how would we know. How many characters do your have at lvl 80? How many of them have over T5 gear on them? How many crafts are capp'd on skill? How many Exhaulted reps do they each have? How many Achievements do each of them have? Had we known the answers to those we might be able to determine that you had a life outside WoW. BUT...since all you did was ask what was after WoW, and you called it the Holy Grail of MMOs, well you should have expected some smart assed responses. Not all of us think WoW is the best thing since sliced bread. To me, even though I did play it for about 4 years, its about 8th down the ladder on my scale of MMOs. So finding something to do after you leave that game shouldnt' be that hard, if your willing to actually go out and try something new.
Kaocan.... I should have known if FF was mentioned youd smell it and come to the cause. If from what you are sayen, this is what determines whether or not you have a life then I suppose I don't. I only did 2 tours with the army overseas and am now a full time college student at Kennesaw (near your neck of the woods), yet I have many 80's with caps etc etc. The games been out a long time and I have had some down time while actually doing something meaningful. There are indeed real people out there in the world and I can say that I haven't been in a small group since 2005. I get enough of them at work/school I want to not be made to feel like I have no life because I enjoy my escapes into the MMO world. Sorry had to get that out cause you seem like an ass in a lotta your posts and offer verry little actual feedback. I know the OP take on the subject because I have left WoW twice already just to find one dissapointment or another in mmo's and come back becaue my wife enjoys it there. And I enjoy my wifes happiness caue it makes me happy. Not sure what to recommend since I have yet to find somethig else to hold my attention. I have plans to play a couple when they release, not sure till then.
The thing is that whether its WoW, FF, Eve, GW1/2 or Champions, WoW has developed under differing circumstances. For most of the "Veteran" mmo players who favor sandbox over instance, the hatred can be understood; WoW, regardless of how fun it is, through its usage of instancing and leveling and now current dominance can be called an "innovation killer" and the fact that its probably the biggest objection raised as to whether a sand box mmo can be made. In short company executives who have little to no imagination prefer finances and gains over risky, unsure ventures and while they are a business and can't blame them, they all look toward WoW's success as the dominant reason to continue the so-called "WoW clones". So if ppl are generally angry at the overwhelming consequences of WoW it has to be understood through that perspective and that it has legitimacy.
Frankly no game has at least the degree of NA build~up that can cross across into Asia in production. The upcoming Star Wars "may" be the closest thing. But unlike WoW it is releasing in a title rich mmo environment. I don't think its hard to imagine nor ignore that Starcraft would be a likely successor and I wouldn't put it past blizzard to take that approach either. It has all of the key elements of how Warcraft got built up release after release, expansion after expansion into its final evolution into WoW. FF, while enjoying popularity across the world, is still for better or worse known more to RPG'ers and has always been criticized (fairly I'd add) to have its heart located more in Asian instead of the US. This would impact the number of players that have initial appeal to it.
Star Wars may or may not be a successor to WoW; if it leans more toward a sandbox, I can see ppl griping about grind, long quests, too much freedom with little guidance and too many serious players and not enough "casual, I just want to have fun" players involved. If not I can see ppl criticize it as a sell out or "WoW in Star Wars clothing".
My general problem is I can live with WoW being called a great game, but when we build it up to be a so-called "Holy Grail", then we demand all games follow its form. This does kill the innovation and designs that were behind the creation of games that gave birth itself to WoW; no EQ and Ultima = WoW would never have existed nor the ideas and basic principles behind its mechanics in the game either. If everyone continues to give this sentiment of WoW as the greatest thing ever, then we'll be stuck with WoW clones and neither blizzard or any other company will produce anything that will add and build up to better mmo's; we'll just stagnate with the current tools and keep using them to making games. Star Wars and FF may or may not break the mold but I think Star Wars would do so more than FF. I think the only game that really breaks the mold and is showing a new way of doing mmo's is Eve and its been out for a while with no following up on what it has done as game thus far. Guess I'll be stuck playing my console games and netflix and then jump off to Shogun: Total War.
As everyone knows, WoW is the holy grail of MMORPG games. I've gotten rather tired of this game, I recently tried Champions Online, and it's an alright game but I don't see much population. My question is, what comes after WoW? I guess you could say in terms of population.
As everyone knows, WoW is the holy grail of MMORPG games. I've gotten rather tired of this game, I recently tried Champions Online, and it's an alright game but I don't see much population. My question is, what comes after WoW? I guess you could say in terms of population.
Guild Wars 2 is after World of Warcraft, friend.
Gw2 is a F2P game meaning people will not have to leave their 80s (85s by the time GW2 comes out), You have to keep in mind that not to many people are as hyped for GW 2 as they are SWTOR and I would say WH40k.
As everyone knows, WoW is the holy grail of MMORPG games. I've gotten rather tired of this game, I recently tried Champions Online, and it's an alright game but I don't see much population. My question is, what comes after WoW? I guess you could say in terms of population.
I dont have any good numbers, but I would think in the P2P market, EVE or EQII would probably be next in terms of population. In the F2P market perhpas, Runes of Magic and Runescape would have the highest population.
As everyone knows, WoW is the holy grail of MMORPG games. I've gotten rather tired of this game, I recently tried Champions Online, and it's an alright game but I don't see much population. My question is, what comes after WoW? I guess you could say in terms of population.
Guild Wars 2 is after World of Warcraft, friend.
Gw2 is a F2P game meaning people will not have to leave their 80s (85s by the time GW2 comes out), You have to keep in mind that not to many people are as hyped for GW 2 as they are SWTOR and I would say WH40k.
Regardless, people don't want to play the same crap for ages upon ages. They want something new, regardless if it costs anything monthly or not.
The Old Republic doesn't look very different at all. This is an uneducated glance, but as far as I can tell from the videos I've seen, it looks just like World of Warcraft with lightsabers. Not to mention, Jedi = Alliance, SIth = Horde. The art direction Bioware is taking with The Old Republic is an immediate turn off to me, and several others I know. Guild Wars 2, on the other hand...not much to explain there.
Point being, The Old Republic doesn't have anything on Guild Wars 2. If that's not enough, Bioware has proven time and time again that they cannot make a game for the PC. They just can't do it. They're completely incapable. Knights of the Old Republic still has many errors and bugs to this day which remain unpatched (unplayable a lot of the time), Mass Effect was SO terribly programmed that it took their developers two solid weeks AFTER release before anyone could play the game at all. Same goes for Mass Effect 2. They're just horrible programmers when it comes to the PC. The Old Republic looks cheaply made, and I definitely won't be buying it since, like I mentioned, it's World of Warcraft with lightsabers. The combat is bland and uninspiring. Whereas Guild Wars 2, if you've seen "The Shatterer" video, you might know what I mean.
ArenaNet will be bringing a new feeling of MMO combat with their game, and they're doing everything quite differently. To break the mold, which was the flavor the first Guild Wars brought with it. From what I've seen, they're well on their way to succeeding, especially with their "It'll be released when it's done" mindset.
SO regardless of what people have to pay, players will want to play something new, especially when one such game costs no subscription fee and another, cheaper quality game, costs $15 a month.
You know, Its kind of funny how people think that WoW hasn't done much (or anything) for the MMO industry, when in fact it has pretty much defined the genre. It's the reason other developers make MMORPGs. If it wasn't for WoW, the most populated MMO probably would have been something like runescape. There are tons of MMOs based off the fundamentals WoW set down. Now, i'm not a particular fan of the game anymore, but I played it for a while and i find it pretty funny when Aion or... well... any MMO really, calls WoW generic. You can call it an EQ clone, which wouldn't be accurate anymore, or something of that nature, but It's still a genre defining title in the MMO industry. Kind of like Mike Tyson. He's a douche bag, but there's no denying he changed the face of boxing completely.
Well anyway, back on topic. Lots of other games seem watered down or unsatisfactory after playing WoW because you feel like you've done it all (same shit different day y'know?) so try something far removed from it. City of Heroes is a lot different from WoW in the way that there is no real "Gear"- which as we all know is what WoW is about- only ways to upgrade your powers. And as opposed to these enhancements being dropped, they are primarily crafted, the recipes are usually redeemed from tokens from the end game content and the in game user created content system. I admit, that this makes advancing your character quite easy, and maybe even BORING compared to WoW's competitive PvE system, but its certainly not the same.
You know, Its kind of funny how people think that WoW hasn't done much (or anything) for the MMO industry, when in fact it has pretty much defined (rather RE-defined) the genre. It's the reason other developers make MMORPGs. If it wasn't for WoW, the most populated MMO probably would have been something like runescape. There are tons of MMOs based off the fundamentals WoW set down. Fundamentals WoW set down? BWHAHAHAHAHAHA...no really...BWAHAHHAHAHAHA. Do you realize how many "fundamentals" that WoW USES were "set down" MANY many years before WoW was even a twinkle in Blizzards's eye? It's not like WoW was the FIRST MMO. Now, i'm not a particular fan of the game anymore, but I played it for a while and i find it pretty funny when Aion or... well... any MMO really, calls WoW generic. You can call it an EQ clone, which wouldn't be accurate anymore, or something of that nature, but It's still a genre defining (RE-defining...again...you seem to confuse those two words) title in the MMO industry. Kind of like Mike Tyson. He's a douche bag, but there's no denying he changed the face of boxing completely.
Well anyway, back on topic. Lots of other games seem watered down or unsatisfactory after playing WoW because you feel like you've done it all (same shit different day y'know?) (Only true if WoW was your FIRST MMO...otherwise, WoW is the one that feels watered down, for many of us) so try something far removed from it. City of Heroes is a lot different from WoW in the way that there is no real "Gear"- which as we all know is what WoW is about- only ways to upgrade your powers. And as opposed to these enhancements being dropped, they are primarily crafted, the recipes are usually redeemed from tokens from the end game content and the in game user created content system. I admit, that this makes advancing your character quite easy, and maybe even BORING compared to WoW's competitive PvE system, but its certainly not the same.
Wow. I'm sorry. I just disagree with so MANY of the things you said, that I don't even know where to begin. So I'll just leave it at what I added and highlighted above and call it good for this post.
Just my opinion of course. You're just as entitled to yours. We just happen to disagree on a few things.
Holy Grail is something truly epic (but unreachable), a MMORPG that no developer seems to know how to make.
WoW is more like mass hypnosis or global lobotomy, kinda like Lady Gaga of MMORPGs.
ROFLMAO
Pure WIN, that comment. Pure WIN.
On topic:
For me....what came after WoW was continuing to play EQ2 (as I had WHILE I was also playing WoW), going back to single player RPGs to some degree, some adventure games, and in the not too distant future I'm hoping that GW2 and TSW will be in the mix. (Just talking the "gaming side of life" here.)
In other words, for me....I didn't really struggle with the question of "what's after WoW." My world (gaming or RL either one) didn't ever really stop for WoW, so....what's "after" was just kind of what naturally rolled on after WoW stopped rolling. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone but me, but....yeah.
Well, Again this is all opinion here. But before WoW, the MMO industry was small. Yes, I know there were MMOs before WoW, but WoW left its mark on pop culture, and honestly put the term MMORPG in the media. Ask your average non-gamer if they know what WoW is, an they'll probably respond "Yeah that one online game", ask them about oh, Everquest, and you'll probably get a blank stare.
And yes, I mean DEFINED. You don't see guilds of the magnitude of which you see them on WoW many other places, so there is one. Also the competitive nature of the games system both PvE and PvP work very well. I've never played the original Ultima online and that extensively, but from what I hear it's just not the same. I agree WoW is BASED off of MMOs that came before it, but its the differences (the ones you see emulated in games like Runes of Magic and Aion) that made it popular. For one, accessibility, it runs on almost any rig out there, no matter how outdated. The game was marketed relatively well, plus they had an good environment with graphics to match. The stats system was simple and easy to understand, but manages to be in depth enough for hardcore raiders to make a fuss about 10 stamina. Those were the features I was referring to, and while they might not have been Blizz's original idea, Blizz did it right first.
On another note, WoW has bottlenecked players into feeling like "If the game system's aren't simple and easy to understand, then they are too confusing". This is due to their over exposure to WoW and games that try to emulate it. If I may bring up a game like Champions Online, which was unique and had its own Balance in its early beta stages, completely failed when the player base didnt take the time to understand the systems it had set down. So, cryptic folded and tried to give the players what they wanted, or thought they wanted. In the end... well... you get it.
Also, I guess it's worth nothing that my first MMO was SWG (the old Pre-CU SWG), followed by Guildwars. So, yes WoW was completely new to me when I first picked it up, and I enjoyed it all the way up to its late Burning Crusade days. (Wrath Kinda killed it for me.) So for many others who didn't start with the traditional MMO, played WoW and then took a hard look at the older MMOs it was based off of, there is a bigger difference then just player base and graphics.
EQ also had lots of large guilds. I don't see what that has to do with anything. WoW hasn't really come up with a lot of new ideas, to be honest. What they HAVE done is simplify stuff so that a five year old can easily log in and play (even if they play badly...they can still play). They have also taken game MARKETING to a new level. (Which is one of the primary reasons for their success, along with, like you said...being able to run on a calculator and being easy enough for a child to pick up and at least play the thing.)
Beyond that....there's not been much in the way of "defining" or innovating anything, in my opinion.
SADLY, what they have done is make people THINK that to be "successful" as an MMO, one must have 12 million subscribers. Which, I might add, is just absolutely ludicrous. A game doesn't need to come even CLOSE to that to experience great success financially. WoW is like the freak show in the circus.
No shit Sherlock, any 5 year old can pick and play an MMO since they're all based off WoW now. I laugh at your bigoted comments.
WoW did simplify...to a point. If you had an inkling of knowledge you'd know that every single Blizzard agme is easy to learn, hard to master (I wouldn't be surprised iff less than 2% of people have actually done the hard achievements in game, like the gear-check ones that require you to be in lower-ilevel gear, never die, kill LK 25man hc etc etc.) When you chortle heartily about how EQ and the stuff like that DEFINED what an MMO was...well, did they? Honestly? Did they have that UI, that responsive combat, all those quests? No. Every MMO was different in scope and focus, there wasn't a definition, they were just a vaguely-related sub-genre that shared somewhat similar mechanics. WoW defined what everyone thought of as an MMO, and, for better or worse, every MMO released after it has been defined by it.
RIFT was a *crushing* disappointment; a shallow, loveless, generic MMO the likes of which hasn't been seen in a P2P format since, well, forever.
As everyone knows, WoW is the holy grail of MMORPG games. I've gotten rather tired of this game, I recently tried Champions Online, and it's an alright game but I don't see much population. My question is, what comes after WoW? I guess you could say in terms of population.
I dunno i tried a few games after recently quitting wow and I have been doin ok in age of conan, the world pvp has kept my interest, the lvl grind was boring but once you hit 80 you can run around ganking ppl with relatively low end gear.Another game I have been playing alot is dragon oath, and spending more time in daoc.
As everyone knows, WoW is the holy grail of MMORPG games. I've gotten rather tired of this game, I recently tried Champions Online, and it's an alright game but I don't see much population. My question is, what comes after WoW? I guess you could say in terms of population.
Rift.
My brain has 2 sides;Left and right. My left side has nothing right and my right side has nothing left...
EQ also had lots of large guilds. I don't see what that has to do with anything. WoW hasn't really come up with a lot of new ideas, to be honest. What they HAVE done is simplify stuff so that a five year old can easily log in and play (even if they play badly...they can still play). They have also taken game MARKETING to a new level. (Which is one of the primary reasons for their success, along with, like you said...being able to run on a calculator and being easy enough for a child to pick up and at least play the thing.)
Beyond that....there's not been much in the way of "defining" or innovating anything, in my opinion.
SADLY, what they have done is make people THINK that to be "successful" as an MMO, one must have 12 million subscribers. Which, I might add, is just absolutely ludicrous. A game doesn't need to come even CLOSE to that to experience great success financially. WoW is like the freak show in the circus.
It really depends on what you call a success and the only people that can really define that for a game is the creators themselfs. If they feel 10k people is a success for them then by all means it is for them.
But lets not lie at all. World of Warcraft opened the doors wide for the MMO genre. It has brought in more people to the genre then any other game out there.
While they may have no invented the basics of what makes a MMO a MMO. They did however take what worked from games before and polished it upto a state that it all worked togeather in a easy to use format. There are things in WoW that very few people have done and there are things that just about everyone has done. The fact is that there is always something to chase in the game and there is just about something for everyone in the game. I would call that a success as far as game design goes.
If you look on the other hand.. What game has come out that has really pushed / changed the genre beyond Ultima Online and Everquest? Just about every MMO has built upon those two games format. Some follow one more then the other but lets be honest, both of them games have really defined what a MMO is.
There is little on the horizon that looks like its going to break the mold or innovate the genre. But why does a game have to innovate the genre or be different from the rest? I myself would be more then happy to have a World of Warcraft with a different skin on it / story attached to it.
In order for a game to innovate / break the current mold we are really going to have to change our input devices / the way we interact with MMO's. There is really only so far you can go with the questing model with the types of interaction we currently have.
If you look on the other hand.. What game has come out that has really pushed / changed the genre beyond Ultima Online and Everquest?
Spore. Farmville (or at least the game Farmville was based on).
They don't look like MMOs, but in their own ways, they are MMOs to me: a persistant world and interaction with other players. In Spore, the interaction is purely creative - your universe is built out of the creations of other players (seeded only withe a little company-created content). In Farmville, your interaction is purely abstracted your social network - success is dependant on your friends simply clicking an acknowledgement that they got your spam.
All MMOs have a minigame of dressing up your character in a costume. UO has house design, space based games have ship design, but I don't see anyone making the conceptual leap to the next logical step of making everything constructable. I realize that the network and rendering complexity of avatars alone lags populated areas of ordinary MMOs, but if you ration out how much and how dense the customization can be, the concept is still there.
Social interactions are typically limited to parties, buffs and trades. But I don't think that games have fully explored what mechanics can be tied to social networks. The mindset is still "I am an individual playing" or "I am a party playing" without really looking at "I play a bunch of characters who can connect with other peoples' characters". Personally I tend to play solo ingame, but develop an active personality on message boards because I find I just don't get the sort of casual arms-length relationships I want to build in-game. The Facebook-based games that are catching a lot of attention capture that atmosphere.
I used to play EQ2 and I was in a raid with clan and I thought to myself, wouldnt that be cool if you could craft a cannon or catipult that would require a full team to craft as well as use. Then i thought, well wouldnt it basically be cool if you could combined an RTS with an RPG.
ironically not but 2 days after that thought I got exposed to Darkfall and have been a fan ever sincee but in all fairness darkfall has yet to really do a fantastic job around RTS but it is their goal.
so in short, what is after WoW? RTSRPG
erm i recall as far back as 2001 in DAoC we had to carry wood,bolts etc(u need like 4 or so to carry it too) to craft seige weapons in front of the keep.
Comments
Oh hell yeah, I've been wanting to delete this Real Life game off my harddrive for years but I can't seem to find where I installed it. Talk about not getting a finished game when it came out.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
What you meant to say is the majority of people who are bored sheep, whilst at the same time living in a world filled with nostalgic, rose-tinted views who are taken in by the recent wave of hatred for WoW wouldn't agree. Please stop living in the past, and go play those beloved candles of yours if they were so good. Nothing will make them ever again.
Thanks.
Also, what comes after WoW? Nothing at present, quite frankly. DarkFall is in theory quite neat but is essentially just a massive inconvenience. A lot of other games are similar to WoW but lack its content, polish or both. EVE, for me, didn't work at all. The "next-gen" MMOs might do something, but don't hold your breath on FF14. I'd say go play other things, other genres, and wait for Cata, then TOR/GW2/Rift. Those four are the future.
RIFT was a *crushing* disappointment; a shallow, loveless, generic MMO the likes of which hasn't been seen in a P2P format since, well, forever.
Eagerly awaiting: World of Darkness, ArcheAge.
EVE it's a good game, if you want to compete in a sand-box enviroment, this is a game for you. But if you suck at this, or you enjoy the sand-box style in single player, you won't enjoy EVE probably.
I played a lot of years, but i got bored very often.
My vote would be GW2.
Kaocan.... I should have known if FF was mentioned youd smell it and come to the cause. If from what you are sayen, this is what determines whether or not you have a life then I suppose I don't. I only did 2 tours with the army overseas and am now a full time college student at Kennesaw (near your neck of the woods), yet I have many 80's with caps etc etc. The games been out a long time and I have had some down time while actually doing something meaningful. There are indeed real people out there in the world and I can say that I haven't been in a small group since 2005. I get enough of them at work/school I want to not be made to feel like I have no life because I enjoy my escapes into the MMO world. Sorry had to get that out cause you seem like an ass in a lotta your posts and offer verry little actual feedback. I know the OP take on the subject because I have left WoW twice already just to find one dissapointment or another in mmo's and come back becaue my wife enjoys it there. And I enjoy my wifes happiness caue it makes me happy. Not sure what to recommend since I have yet to find somethig else to hold my attention. I have plans to play a couple when they release, not sure till then.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Holy Grail is something truly epic (but unreachable), a MMORPG that no developer seems to know how to make.
WoW is more like mass hypnosis or global lobotomy, kinda like Lady Gaga of MMORPGs.
The thing is that whether its WoW, FF, Eve, GW1/2 or Champions, WoW has developed under differing circumstances. For most of the "Veteran" mmo players who favor sandbox over instance, the hatred can be understood; WoW, regardless of how fun it is, through its usage of instancing and leveling and now current dominance can be called an "innovation killer" and the fact that its probably the biggest objection raised as to whether a sand box mmo can be made. In short company executives who have little to no imagination prefer finances and gains over risky, unsure ventures and while they are a business and can't blame them, they all look toward WoW's success as the dominant reason to continue the so-called "WoW clones". So if ppl are generally angry at the overwhelming consequences of WoW it has to be understood through that perspective and that it has legitimacy.
Frankly no game has at least the degree of NA build~up that can cross across into Asia in production. The upcoming Star Wars "may" be the closest thing. But unlike WoW it is releasing in a title rich mmo environment. I don't think its hard to imagine nor ignore that Starcraft would be a likely successor and I wouldn't put it past blizzard to take that approach either. It has all of the key elements of how Warcraft got built up release after release, expansion after expansion into its final evolution into WoW. FF, while enjoying popularity across the world, is still for better or worse known more to RPG'ers and has always been criticized (fairly I'd add) to have its heart located more in Asian instead of the US. This would impact the number of players that have initial appeal to it.
Star Wars may or may not be a successor to WoW; if it leans more toward a sandbox, I can see ppl griping about grind, long quests, too much freedom with little guidance and too many serious players and not enough "casual, I just want to have fun" players involved. If not I can see ppl criticize it as a sell out or "WoW in Star Wars clothing".
My general problem is I can live with WoW being called a great game, but when we build it up to be a so-called "Holy Grail", then we demand all games follow its form. This does kill the innovation and designs that were behind the creation of games that gave birth itself to WoW; no EQ and Ultima = WoW would never have existed nor the ideas and basic principles behind its mechanics in the game either. If everyone continues to give this sentiment of WoW as the greatest thing ever, then we'll be stuck with WoW clones and neither blizzard or any other company will produce anything that will add and build up to better mmo's; we'll just stagnate with the current tools and keep using them to making games. Star Wars and FF may or may not break the mold but I think Star Wars would do so more than FF. I think the only game that really breaks the mold and is showing a new way of doing mmo's is Eve and its been out for a while with no following up on what it has done as game thus far. Guess I'll be stuck playing my console games and netflix and then jump off to Shogun: Total War.
Guild Wars 2 is after World of Warcraft, friend.
Gw2 is a F2P game meaning people will not have to leave their 80s (85s by the time GW2 comes out), You have to keep in mind that not to many people are as hyped for GW 2 as they are SWTOR and I would say WH40k.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I dont have any good numbers, but I would think in the P2P market, EVE or EQII would probably be next in terms of population. In the F2P market perhpas, Runes of Magic and Runescape would have the highest population.
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
Regardless, people don't want to play the same crap for ages upon ages. They want something new, regardless if it costs anything monthly or not.
The Old Republic doesn't look very different at all. This is an uneducated glance, but as far as I can tell from the videos I've seen, it looks just like World of Warcraft with lightsabers. Not to mention, Jedi = Alliance, SIth = Horde. The art direction Bioware is taking with The Old Republic is an immediate turn off to me, and several others I know. Guild Wars 2, on the other hand...not much to explain there.
Point being, The Old Republic doesn't have anything on Guild Wars 2. If that's not enough, Bioware has proven time and time again that they cannot make a game for the PC. They just can't do it. They're completely incapable. Knights of the Old Republic still has many errors and bugs to this day which remain unpatched (unplayable a lot of the time), Mass Effect was SO terribly programmed that it took their developers two solid weeks AFTER release before anyone could play the game at all. Same goes for Mass Effect 2. They're just horrible programmers when it comes to the PC. The Old Republic looks cheaply made, and I definitely won't be buying it since, like I mentioned, it's World of Warcraft with lightsabers. The combat is bland and uninspiring. Whereas Guild Wars 2, if you've seen "The Shatterer" video, you might know what I mean.
ArenaNet will be bringing a new feeling of MMO combat with their game, and they're doing everything quite differently. To break the mold, which was the flavor the first Guild Wars brought with it. From what I've seen, they're well on their way to succeeding, especially with their "It'll be released when it's done" mindset.
SO regardless of what people have to pay, players will want to play something new, especially when one such game costs no subscription fee and another, cheaper quality game, costs $15 a month.
Thank god I wasnt drinking coffee when I read this, or that would've been a great spit-take.. Kudos on the funny funny
You know, Its kind of funny how people think that WoW hasn't done much (or anything) for the MMO industry, when in fact it has pretty much defined the genre. It's the reason other developers make MMORPGs. If it wasn't for WoW, the most populated MMO probably would have been something like runescape. There are tons of MMOs based off the fundamentals WoW set down. Now, i'm not a particular fan of the game anymore, but I played it for a while and i find it pretty funny when Aion or... well... any MMO really, calls WoW generic. You can call it an EQ clone, which wouldn't be accurate anymore, or something of that nature, but It's still a genre defining title in the MMO industry. Kind of like Mike Tyson. He's a douche bag, but there's no denying he changed the face of boxing completely.
Well anyway, back on topic. Lots of other games seem watered down or unsatisfactory after playing WoW because you feel like you've done it all (same shit different day y'know?) so try something far removed from it. City of Heroes is a lot different from WoW in the way that there is no real "Gear"- which as we all know is what WoW is about- only ways to upgrade your powers. And as opposed to these enhancements being dropped, they are primarily crafted, the recipes are usually redeemed from tokens from the end game content and the in game user created content system. I admit, that this makes advancing your character quite easy, and maybe even BORING compared to WoW's competitive PvE system, but its certainly not the same.
Wow. I'm sorry. I just disagree with so MANY of the things you said, that I don't even know where to begin. So I'll just leave it at what I added and highlighted above and call it good for this post.
Just my opinion of course. You're just as entitled to yours. We just happen to disagree on a few things.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
ROFLMAO
Pure WIN, that comment. Pure WIN.
On topic:
For me....what came after WoW was continuing to play EQ2 (as I had WHILE I was also playing WoW), going back to single player RPGs to some degree, some adventure games, and in the not too distant future I'm hoping that GW2 and TSW will be in the mix. (Just talking the "gaming side of life" here.)
In other words, for me....I didn't really struggle with the question of "what's after WoW." My world (gaming or RL either one) didn't ever really stop for WoW, so....what's "after" was just kind of what naturally rolled on after WoW stopped rolling. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone but me, but....yeah.
/shrug
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Well, Again this is all opinion here. But before WoW, the MMO industry was small. Yes, I know there were MMOs before WoW, but WoW left its mark on pop culture, and honestly put the term MMORPG in the media. Ask your average non-gamer if they know what WoW is, an they'll probably respond "Yeah that one online game", ask them about oh, Everquest, and you'll probably get a blank stare.
And yes, I mean DEFINED. You don't see guilds of the magnitude of which you see them on WoW many other places, so there is one. Also the competitive nature of the games system both PvE and PvP work very well. I've never played the original Ultima online and that extensively, but from what I hear it's just not the same. I agree WoW is BASED off of MMOs that came before it, but its the differences (the ones you see emulated in games like Runes of Magic and Aion) that made it popular. For one, accessibility, it runs on almost any rig out there, no matter how outdated. The game was marketed relatively well, plus they had an good environment with graphics to match. The stats system was simple and easy to understand, but manages to be in depth enough for hardcore raiders to make a fuss about 10 stamina. Those were the features I was referring to, and while they might not have been Blizz's original idea, Blizz did it right first.
On another note, WoW has bottlenecked players into feeling like "If the game system's aren't simple and easy to understand, then they are too confusing". This is due to their over exposure to WoW and games that try to emulate it. If I may bring up a game like Champions Online, which was unique and had its own Balance in its early beta stages, completely failed when the player base didnt take the time to understand the systems it had set down. So, cryptic folded and tried to give the players what they wanted, or thought they wanted. In the end... well... you get it.
Also, I guess it's worth nothing that my first MMO was SWG (the old Pre-CU SWG), followed by Guildwars. So, yes WoW was completely new to me when I first picked it up, and I enjoyed it all the way up to its late Burning Crusade days. (Wrath Kinda killed it for me.) So for many others who didn't start with the traditional MMO, played WoW and then took a hard look at the older MMOs it was based off of, there is a bigger difference then just player base and graphics.
EQ also had lots of large guilds. I don't see what that has to do with anything. WoW hasn't really come up with a lot of new ideas, to be honest. What they HAVE done is simplify stuff so that a five year old can easily log in and play (even if they play badly...they can still play). They have also taken game MARKETING to a new level. (Which is one of the primary reasons for their success, along with, like you said...being able to run on a calculator and being easy enough for a child to pick up and at least play the thing.)
Beyond that....there's not been much in the way of "defining" or innovating anything, in my opinion.
SADLY, what they have done is make people THINK that to be "successful" as an MMO, one must have 12 million subscribers. Which, I might add, is just absolutely ludicrous. A game doesn't need to come even CLOSE to that to experience great success financially. WoW is like the freak show in the circus.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
No shit Sherlock, any 5 year old can pick and play an MMO since they're all based off WoW now. I laugh at your bigoted comments.
WoW did simplify...to a point. If you had an inkling of knowledge you'd know that every single Blizzard agme is easy to learn, hard to master (I wouldn't be surprised iff less than 2% of people have actually done the hard achievements in game, like the gear-check ones that require you to be in lower-ilevel gear, never die, kill LK 25man hc etc etc.) When you chortle heartily about how EQ and the stuff like that DEFINED what an MMO was...well, did they? Honestly? Did they have that UI, that responsive combat, all those quests? No. Every MMO was different in scope and focus, there wasn't a definition, they were just a vaguely-related sub-genre that shared somewhat similar mechanics. WoW defined what everyone thought of as an MMO, and, for better or worse, every MMO released after it has been defined by it.
RIFT was a *crushing* disappointment; a shallow, loveless, generic MMO the likes of which hasn't been seen in a P2P format since, well, forever.
Eagerly awaiting: World of Darkness, ArcheAge.
I dunno i tried a few games after recently quitting wow and I have been doin ok in age of conan, the world pvp has kept my interest, the lvl grind was boring but once you hit 80 you can run around ganking ppl with relatively low end gear.Another game I have been playing alot is dragon oath, and spending more time in daoc.
Rift.
My brain has 2 sides;Left and right. My left side has nothing right and my right side has nothing left...
It really depends on what you call a success and the only people that can really define that for a game is the creators themselfs. If they feel 10k people is a success for them then by all means it is for them.
But lets not lie at all. World of Warcraft opened the doors wide for the MMO genre. It has brought in more people to the genre then any other game out there.
While they may have no invented the basics of what makes a MMO a MMO. They did however take what worked from games before and polished it upto a state that it all worked togeather in a easy to use format. There are things in WoW that very few people have done and there are things that just about everyone has done. The fact is that there is always something to chase in the game and there is just about something for everyone in the game. I would call that a success as far as game design goes.
If you look on the other hand.. What game has come out that has really pushed / changed the genre beyond Ultima Online and Everquest? Just about every MMO has built upon those two games format. Some follow one more then the other but lets be honest, both of them games have really defined what a MMO is.
There is little on the horizon that looks like its going to break the mold or innovate the genre. But why does a game have to innovate the genre or be different from the rest? I myself would be more then happy to have a World of Warcraft with a different skin on it / story attached to it.
In order for a game to innovate / break the current mold we are really going to have to change our input devices / the way we interact with MMO's. There is really only so far you can go with the questing model with the types of interaction we currently have.
Spore. Farmville (or at least the game Farmville was based on).
They don't look like MMOs, but in their own ways, they are MMOs to me: a persistant world and interaction with other players. In Spore, the interaction is purely creative - your universe is built out of the creations of other players (seeded only withe a little company-created content). In Farmville, your interaction is purely abstracted your social network - success is dependant on your friends simply clicking an acknowledgement that they got your spam.
All MMOs have a minigame of dressing up your character in a costume. UO has house design, space based games have ship design, but I don't see anyone making the conceptual leap to the next logical step of making everything constructable. I realize that the network and rendering complexity of avatars alone lags populated areas of ordinary MMOs, but if you ration out how much and how dense the customization can be, the concept is still there.
Social interactions are typically limited to parties, buffs and trades. But I don't think that games have fully explored what mechanics can be tied to social networks. The mindset is still "I am an individual playing" or "I am a party playing" without really looking at "I play a bunch of characters who can connect with other peoples' characters". Personally I tend to play solo ingame, but develop an active personality on message boards because I find I just don't get the sort of casual arms-length relationships I want to build in-game. The Facebook-based games that are catching a lot of attention capture that atmosphere.
erm i recall as far back as 2001 in DAoC we had to carry wood,bolts etc(u need like 4 or so to carry it too) to craft seige weapons in front of the keep.