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Blizz took too long

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  • thexratedthexrated Member UncommonPosts: 1,368

    Originally posted by ReallyNow10

    I'm thinking they have taken too long with the Cataclysm expansion and will lose some of the market in 2010/2011 as a result.

    Thoughts?

     

    I agree. Halion was a major dissapointment and farming that plus ICC is just huge bore for many. My guild decided to take break from WoW until Cataclysm about a month ago and many said they won't be coming back.  At the end, too many people simply do not bother turning up for raids once they farmed most of their BiS gear.

    Where the heck is the traditional Troll instance that was introduced prior to both BC and WOTLK? Halion is a poor subsitute.

    "The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  • DookzDookz Member UncommonPosts: 562

    Originally posted by KingKong007

    Originally posted by Dookz

    In 2007, Jeff Strain was at the helm of the early development of GW2. He was the face of ArenaNet. He got most of the interviews in regards to GW2. Chances are, he made those statements in the interview you're referring to a while back. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=161479

    Today, Mike O'Brien takes the lead. If you look up his interviews and the videos and interviews of the other game designers since Jeff Strain's departure, the atmosphere in ArenaNet have changed, I think (even the job description on what it takes to work with the team have changed) There is an assertive tone, one that is more competitive going by the statement they're making. Not naming any particular game or company, they keep on insisting they are aiming to create the best MMO in the market in regards to GW2. And their blogs reflect some of those daring statements, too. This is different from the humble statements Jeff Strain would make. Definitely intrigued to see where this goes in the near future. The game will open up to general MMO people, mainstream and not a niche unlike the first sequel.

    Although off topic: ...

    Now that was an interesting read and it explains perhaps why another 4 lead game designers left GW2 a few months ago to join Jeff Strain on his Zombie project.

    Are we sure that the ghosts of  Gaute Godager or Mark Jacobs don't run through the minds of Mike O'Brien these days ....

    It always amazes me that whenever an individual left Blizzard a decade ago, they declare the weirdest things these days.

    Bill Ropes comes to mind too.

    Nevertheless I hope intelligence reigns ... for once and perhaps they learned from the many, many mistakes made by FunCon and Mythic. He must have postponed GW2 for 2 more years for some reason.

    On topic: GW2 is a one time to buy game without subs. A complete different market money wise. If they want to include " FTP " (read shop) models, they would be screwed though.

     

    Strain was intelligent enough to know GW1 could only be succesful without subscriptions and relying on yearly expansions.

    The only thing that I find reluctant on GW2 is not the graphics wise preloaded instanced battles vs a consistent RvR world (I even like that), but the fact it is marketed by a crook Korean company like NCSoft. And  I do think this is rejectable and not even a good thing for the players. Ask Lord British how he thinks about NCSoft or any Aion player.

    On topic: ...

    WOW grew outside the usual. The longer the wait, the more the return rate on launch.

     

     

    If you have read the blog the new company have formed, Undead Labs. It says "Guild Wars is in good hands...". The others that left are very good friends with Jeff Strain, this is the reason. They left in amicable terms, nothing more. With Jeff Strain, anyone can draw speculations.  Here's a statement from Mike O'Brien, who was a senior programmer and a former company director of Blizzard: 

    (source: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4797514&postcount=119)



    Hi all,



    I wanted to take a moment to offer my personal note on Jeff's departure.



    Jeff is a personal friend of mine. We worked together very closely from the time he joined Blizzard in 1996, through our founding of ArenaNet in 2000, until he left ArenaNet to join NCsoft West in 2008. I'm sad to see him leaving NCsoft now. We remain good friends and I wish him great success in his next endeavor.



    It's important to understand that ArenaNet is a separate and self-contained development studio. Jeff hasn't been involved in the day-to-day development of Guild Wars 2 since he left ArenaNet more than a year ago, and I don't expect his departure to have a direct impact on our studio or on Guild Wars 2. I continue to lead ArenaNet, and I'm not going anywhere.



    We have an amazing team here at ArenaNet, and we continue to work hard on Guild Wars 2, preparing for the day when we can first reveal it to the world. That day is coming very soon now. I'm confident that, when you see Guild Wars 2 for the first time, you're going to love what you see, and any worries you have about its development will fade away.



    --Mike O'Brien 01:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

     

    Now that was over 2 years ago since Jeff departed. Much progress has already been made up to this point. Remember that Jeff Strain was the lead programmer for World of Warcraft  and then he leaves during the early development stages and look how World of Warcraft turned out, a big hit. He also held the same position for Guild Wars 2 and then he leaves at the early development stages. So if there is any speculation to draw from, he may have foreseen something that most haven't yet....and so he moves on to find other challenges.

    Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    I don't think it will matter how fast or slow blizzard releases Cataclysm.  Wow is an old game and has dominated for a lot longer than it should have.  Nothing is going to stop a decline in wow when another good mmo releases.  Cataclysm might be awesome, but after 6 years players are going to want something new and it is long overdue. 

    A decline in wow should have already happened, but almost every competitor failed to do their job and released games that don't come close to a offering a competitive threat to what wow offers.  There were plenty of games that were hyped to the moon and back about how aweseome they were going to be, just like we are seeing yet again, but until someone actually releases a decent game that lives up to the hype I wouldn't expect much to change.

  • tu_uilwentu_uilwen Member Posts: 794
    Well lets see, an expansion poack that is changing ALOT of things in the game. Probably gonna take awhile considering the fact that they have to do alot of recoding to allow flying mounts in areas that they could not be in before. And to change the visual aspects, and to add no quests and classes and mods and NPC lol. Of course it is gonna take alittle while. And yeah someone else said it also that the other 2 expansions both took 2+ years to come out and they were HUGE.

    I doubt they are gonna lose anything for the time its taking lol.

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    "Everyones life has a beginning and an end, No one can change that."-Hiko
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  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Member UncommonPosts: 2,237

    Originally posted by Dookz

    Originally posted by KingKong007

    Originally posted by Dookz

    In 2007, Jeff Strain was at the helm of the early development of GW2. He was the face of ArenaNet. He got most of the interviews in regards to GW2. Chances are, he made those statements in the interview you're referring to a while back. http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=161479

    Today, Mike O'Brien takes the lead. If you look up his interviews and the videos and interviews of the other game designers since Jeff Strain's departure, the atmosphere in ArenaNet have changed, I think (even the job description on what it takes to work with the team have changed) There is an assertive tone, one that is more competitive going by the statement they're making. Not naming any particular game or company, they keep on insisting they are aiming to create the best MMO in the market in regards to GW2. And their blogs reflect some of those daring statements, too. This is different from the humble statements Jeff Strain would make. Definitely intrigued to see where this goes in the near future. The game will open up to general MMO people, mainstream and not a niche unlike the first sequel.

    Although off topic: ...

    Now that was an interesting read and it explains perhaps why another 4 lead game designers left GW2 a few months ago to join Jeff Strain on his Zombie project.

    Are we sure that the ghosts of  Gaute Godager or Mark Jacobs don't run through the minds of Mike O'Brien these days ....

    It always amazes me that whenever an individual left Blizzard a decade ago, they declare the weirdest things these days.

    Bill Ropes comes to mind too.

    Nevertheless I hope intelligence reigns ... for once and perhaps they learned from the many, many mistakes made by FunCon and Mythic. He must have postponed GW2 for 2 more years for some reason.

    On topic: GW2 is a one time to buy game without subs. A complete different market money wise. If they want to include " FTP " (read shop) models, they would be screwed though.

     

    Strain was intelligent enough to know GW1 could only be succesful without subscriptions and relying on yearly expansions.

    The only thing that I find reluctant on GW2 is not the graphics wise preloaded instanced battles vs a consistent RvR world (I even like that), but the fact it is marketed by a crook Korean company like NCSoft. And  I do think this is rejectable and not even a good thing for the players. Ask Lord British how he thinks about NCSoft or any Aion player.

    On topic: ...

    WOW grew outside the usual. The longer the wait, the more the return rate on launch.

     

     

    If you have read the blog the new company have formed, Undead Labs. It says "Guild Wars is in good hands...". The others that left are very good friends with Jeff Strain, this is the reason. They left in amicable terms, nothing more. With Jeff Strain, anyone can draw speculations.  Here's a statement from Mike O'Brien, who was a senior programmer and a former company director of Blizzard: 

    (source: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4797514&postcount=119)



    Hi all,



    I wanted to take a moment to offer my personal note on Jeff's departure.



    Jeff is a personal friend of mine. We worked together very closely from the time he joined Blizzard in 1996, through our founding of ArenaNet in 2000, until he left ArenaNet to join NCsoft West in 2008. I'm sad to see him leaving NCsoft now. We remain good friends and I wish him great success in his next endeavor.



    It's important to understand that ArenaNet is a separate and self-contained development studio. Jeff hasn't been involved in the day-to-day development of Guild Wars 2 since he left ArenaNet more than a year ago, and I don't expect his departure to have a direct impact on our studio or on Guild Wars 2. I continue to lead ArenaNet, and I'm not going anywhere.



    We have an amazing team here at ArenaNet, and we continue to work hard on Guild Wars 2, preparing for the day when we can first reveal it to the world. That day is coming very soon now. I'm confident that, when you see Guild Wars 2 for the first time, you're going to love what you see, and any worries you have about its development will fade away.



    --Mike O'Brien 01:56, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

     

    Now that was over 2 years ago since Jeff departed. Much progress has already been made up to this point. Remember that Jeff Strain was the lead programmer for World of Warcraft  and then he leaves during the early development stages and look how World of Warcraft turned out, a big hit. He also held the same position for Guild Wars 2 and then he leaves at the early development stages. So if there is any speculation to draw from, he may have foreseen something that most haven't yet....and so he moves on to find other challenges.

     Jeff "who"?  Jeff Butler?  McQuaid's cohort?

  • DookzDookz Member UncommonPosts: 562

    Jeff Strain was the team lead and lead programmer of Blizzard's massively multiplayer role-playing game, World of Warcraft. He was also a senior programmer on both Warcraft III and StarCraft, and a programmer on Diablo. Jeff was the creator of the StarCraft Campaign Editor and was employed at Blizzard for four years.



    In March, 2000, he founded ArenaNet with Pat Wyatt and Mike O'Brien. He then worked as a programmer for the company.



    On 10th September 2008 it was announced Strain would become President of Product Development of the newly-formed NCsoft West when ArenaNet was consolidated along with other NCsoft subsidiaries under a single label.



    In August 2009 he left the company to establish his own development studio Undead Labs. The formation was announced in November 2009.



    Games Credited


    Aion (2009), NCsoft West

    Guild Wars: Eye of the North (2007), NCsoft Europe Ltd.

    Guild Wars: Factions (2006), NCsoft Europe Ltd.

    Guild Wars: Nightfall (2006), NCsoft Europe Ltd.

    Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos (2002), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.

    Diablo II: Lord of Destruction (2001), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.

    Diablo II (2000), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.

    Diablo II (Collector's Edition) (2000), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.

    StarCraft 64 (2000), Nintendo of America Inc.

    StarCraft (1998), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.

    StarCraft: Brood War (1998), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.

    Diablo (1997), Blizzard Entertainment Inc.

     

    source: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,9171/

    Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished

  • zesusuzesusu Member Posts: 26

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    I don't think it will matter how fast or slow blizzard releases Cataclysm.  Wow is an old game and has dominated for a lot longer than it should have  (ok may I ask, who decides how long it should normally be? you?).  Nothing is going to stop a decline in wow when another good mmo releases.  Cataclysm might be awesome, but after 6 years players are going to want something new and it is long overdue. who decides which player wants what? you again? 

    A decline in wow should have already happened (why? because you do not like it?  someone should decline for no reason?), but almost every competitor failed to do their job and released games that don't come close to a offering a competitive threat to what wow offers.  There were plenty of games that were hyped to the moon and back about how aweseome they were going to be, just like we are seeing yet again, but until someone actually releases a decent game that lives up to the hype I wouldn't expect much to change.

    First rise of a competitor does not always signal decline of the leader, it means renewed competition, it can mean expansion in market size and hence the big pie.

    Second something in lead for years does not mean it must decline.  Microsoft has dominated personal computer OS for ages.

    Third and foremost, WoW is only 5 years old.  That by your whatever stupid reason, it should have already declined, is absurd.  What should or should not is not you to say, unless you own that market.

    Good grief, if you hate wow, if you do not like wow (I know you do not), just say so and I fully respect your personal view.  But to pretend you speak on behalf of other players, or talk as if it is a god sent mandate to have WoW declining, you are really very logical and persuasive.

  • odessaboodessabo Member Posts: 24

    I doubt very seriously that Blizzard itself worries about the next WoW-killer. Maybe suits at Activision do, but not the Blizzard guys. Blizzard has said many times in the past that they welcome the competition. They play the other games too. Some of the 'new' features they like in these other games might get rolled into WoW as a result.

    --------------------------
    Electric football is 'old school' gaming.

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by odessabo

    I doubt very seriously that Blizzard itself worries about the next WoW-killer. Maybe suits at Activision do, but not the Blizzard guys. Blizzard has said many times in the past that they welcome the competition. They play the other games too. Some of the 'new' features they like in these other games might get rolled into WoW as a result.

    I don't see why such a thing as the Dynamic Events of GW2 couldn't work in WoW.

    They could experiment with it by implementing it into one area, maybe the Barrens, also add maybe a zone control thing where both factions can fight over strongpoints and keeps and such.

     

    Thing is, Activion/Blizzard has so much money to invest that they could easily just watch the different features that other current and upcoming MMO's are trying out, see what works for them and then pick the ones they want to use for WoW image

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  • DmyankeeDmyankee Member UncommonPosts: 135

    Blizzard already used Dynamic events, a little different that what is proposed in Guild Wars 2 and Rift, but if you perform Wrath Gate, or the quests in ICC or the Death Knight lines, those are all technically dynamic events.

    image

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  • odessaboodessabo Member Posts: 24

    the dynamic events in GW2 look just like the public quests in WAR.

    I think WoW:CAT is also bringing in some of the PvP flover that WAR introduced.

    i dont understand haters of any MMO when they complain how one game copied from another. News Flash: ITS A GAME. If its a good feature, be happy its now in the game. Guild leveling and PvP ranking..ya been done before. Adding it to WoW only increases its playable value.

    --------------------------
    Electric football is 'old school' gaming.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Originally posted by zesusu

    Originally posted by Daffid011

    I don't think it will matter how fast or slow blizzard releases Cataclysm.  Wow is an old game and has dominated for a lot longer than it should have  (ok may I ask, who decides how long it should normally be? you?).  Nothing is going to stop a decline in wow when another good mmo releases.  Cataclysm might be awesome, but after 6 years players are going to want something new and it is long overdue. who decides which player wants what? you again? 

    A decline in wow should have already happened (why? because you do not like it?  someone should decline for no reason?), but almost every competitor failed to do their job and released games that don't come close to a offering a competitive threat to what wow offers.  There were plenty of games that were hyped to the moon and back about how aweseome they were going to be, just like we are seeing yet again, but until someone actually releases a decent game that lives up to the hype I wouldn't expect much to change.

    First rise of a competitor does not always signal decline of the leader, it means renewed competition, it can mean expansion in market size and hence the big pie.

    Second something in lead for years does not mean it must decline.  Microsoft has dominated personal computer OS for ages.

    Third and foremost, WoW is only 5 years old.  That by your whatever stupid reason, it should have already declined, is absurd.  What should or should not is not you to say, unless you own that market.

    Good grief, if you hate wow, if you do not like wow (I know you do not), just say so and I fully respect your personal view.  But to pretend you speak on behalf of other players, or talk as if it is a god sent mandate to have WoW declining, you are really very logical and persuasive.

    I guess it just matters how you chose to read my opinion as to how you decide my tone is.  Obviously you chose to read it in a harsh manner and reply in kind, fair enough.  It is the internet and not everyone comprehends things as they are meant to be presented. 

    First, I am not mandating that anything should or has to do decline for any of the nonsense you listed.  From my point of view, taking into account all the competition that has released I think wow should have declined.  The reason it has not has more to due with the lack of rise in competition.  So I think wow should have declined, because other developers should have raised their standards in response to the success of wow.  Not because I say it should as you chose to read it.  However, other companies did not raise their standards and wow still dominates.  Even though I think wow is the best game on the market, I think it has been very vulnerable to the release of another serious mmo for a while now.  See how my personal view of wow doesn't match up with what I think should have happened? 

    In 2 months, wow will be 6 years old and that is a long time for a game to dominate in any genre, but to be crystal clear for you, it is not the reason it should have declined. That is more of a statement of what currently is and not a statement of what is going to happen.  Look at any other genre of games and you will see stiff competition unlike what we have seen for the last 6 years with mmos.  I think that is due to lack of competition and several voids in the market not being properly addressed.  Wow for example is not a sandbox game and that is something that could be a big success and take away subscribers.  Wow is not a multi faction (more than 2) pvp game the focuses on territorial control, which is another void in the market.   The lists goes on and on.

    Just so you don't accuse me of speaking for everyone, both warhammer and age of conan sold more copies during their releases than wow did during its release.  I think that is a pretty strong indicator that there are a lot of people looking for something new.  Beta signups and forum registrations for most new games can easily break 500k to a million easily.  There is interest out there and this is not me trying speak for everyone else to reinforce whatever you think my personal view of wow is. 

     

    I hope that clears things up for you.

  • MilliecakeMilliecake Member Posts: 90

    Now Blizz has the China market back with the approved release of WotLK, I don't think they care too much about the Western market til Cataclysm launches.

  • RavenRaven Member UncommonPosts: 2,004

    Originally posted by Waldoe

    Originally posted by SgtFrog


    Originally posted by elocke

     




    Originally posted by SgtFrog






    Originally posted by elocke

    Even though, for me Blizzard has always taken so long, on BC and WoTLK they didn't have any competition so it didnt' hurt them. This time however, they will have a ton of competition in the next year so yeah, I think it "could" hurt them. Who knows though, even if it did, if they lose even half their subs their still on top by 10,0000000000000000000 frigging miles, rofl.





    May 23, 2008 - AOC

    September 18, 2008 - WAR

    November 13, 2008 – WOTLK

    Actually WOTLK had to compete with two hyped games and it did not affect its sale at all.



    I said no competition. AoC and War obviously didn't compete as they failed. Care to name anymore games that tried and failed in the last 5 years? That's what I mean by competition. As in having the ability to compete at all. Those games tried to compete up until they launched and well, the rest is history.

    No one knows how the other games will end up as well, they could be total disasters.

    I am just saying they had compition back then as well and they all faild.

     

    Final Fantasy, Guild Wars, Star Wars, Rift, and TERA are quite a few potentially good MMOs. The chances that all five of those games will flop are relatively low.  

     

    Just as many people that are looking forward to Cata there are the same amount of people itching for something new.

    What a naive person, there is a big chance all of them will fall short of expectaction a  lot higher chance of this happening than not really, I like some of the MMOs you mentioned, but chances are that it will fall short, they wont be as polished and mass tested as the current ones, ppl will flock ( like they did with every new release over the last 2-3 years) in the first month then start leaving back to their original MMO. 

    I hope I am wrong, but the last 4 years of MMO development tell me it isnt so, not a single MMO lived up to expectation and everytime ppl said "this time it will be different with X company ". 

    Your last statement is true however what happens is that the ppl looking for something new will try the new mmos then go back to try the xpac and get hooked again, a lot of the ppl I know are in this boat they want something new like Tera and GW2, cant say the same about FF everyone that I know that has played it simply didnt like it. But they know if they are not happy with these new games they will just go and play cata.

    In this market its not the client who has to be patient with the product towards the developer is the developer who has to ensure that the product is polished and really good off the mark and that is what Blizz has thought all these ppl that they can buy an MMO and its very polished and fun off the mark, and these MMOs come out with flaws from the start where the developer has somehow calculated that ppl will tolerate and look away.

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