I don't know if they said so in any interviews (I think I remember it being brought up in some articles), but anyone who was active on the forums during development can confirm this. For actual dev quotes on the subject, you'll need to check the STO archived forums. As I remember, it was brought up during the period when Cryptic started talking about flight mechanics. Normally I'd dig up the links but there were tons of no rolling/no looping threads, and each was giant sized; I don't feel like digging through hundreds (thousands?) of posts for those specific dev comments. GrandNagus (who pops in here on occasion), Hagon(bok), or JacobFlowers (also an occasional poster here) should all be able to verify it (as can anyone else who posts here and was active during that discussion period); those are the names here that I recognize from the many discussions.
Wasn't that around the same time they were claiming they HAD to put asteroid fields in every system because players got too disoriented, and some got motion sickness? I think they used the same arguement to explain why sector space made every system look like a giant lollipop. I remember people thinking that doing rolls would mean the enterprise would be dog fighting in space though.
So, as an alternative viewpoint to the "Don't play" thread I'm going to take the other viewpoint (and hope some others will join me) to put across why you might want to play STO. I know I do - I'm a Lifetime Subscriber and still enjoying the game!
Please, if you want to say why people shouldn't play the game, go do it over in the other thread.
So, on we go...
It's Star Trek - If you're a Trek fan, you'll find familiar races, familiar ships and audio from your fave Star Trek show here in Star Trek Online. Walk around DS9, hear the whoosh of the turbolift doors on your starship, the blast of phasers and the pulse of photon torpedoes being fired!
It's Two Games in One - A game of two halves. Not only do you have the space combat flying around in your ship but you also get to go on away missions and run around battling foes, or resolving conflict without bloodshed.
Design a Starship - You get to design your own starship/warbird. Choose from a selection of parts, colours and designs. Go with an iconic starship class, or make something new.
Cryptic Customisation - Cryptic games are almost unsuppassed for character customisation (see City of Heroes, Champions Online). Be a previously unknown Alien race and let your creativity flow!
Expanding World - Level cap has already been raised, new missions have been and are being added (as well as entirely new mission types) and we're only six months in
At the end of the day, on this forum there are some of us posting trial keys. Try the game out and see if you like it - if you do buy a boxed copy/digital key and stick around for a bit and see if you like it longterm!
Anyoe else care to add their good points?
give me a trial key and I'll try the game.
The rumors about it being so bad says I should not waste a cent on buying it to try it.
But curious? after seeing SOE completely run SWG into the ground and ppl saying STO is even worse I definately am eager to watch it.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
that is the biggest load of bs ive heard since i talked to my local politician.
the engine couldnt handle 3d flight- possible (i doubt this though).... now i must hide from dinedae
it would have cost too much to implement proper ui and 3d fcombat- possible (this is what i think happened)
volunteers for a space game alpha couldnt hack 3d flight- oww i just insulted everyones intelligence so much it hurts
No need to hide: I never said that what they said was the truth; in fact, if you read my post, you will see that I was calling b.s. on those statements. The engine could indeed have 3D flight (or at least close to it); it was the CO engine after all, and that game had far superior 3D flight. They (Cryptic's Devs) stated that they limited the flight in STO due to "testers becoming confused and disoriented." I call b.s. on that! It wouldn't even have cost them anything additional, since it was already part of the CO engine that they copied over. I never stated that Cryptic's comments were truthful, or even reasonable, in regards to the testers; I just stated what lines they were trying to feed us.
i really cant beleive they said that, any chance you could link a post or something.... that just sounds far fetched even for cryptic.
i beleive you.....it just makes no sense they would say that.
saying alpha testers couldnt handle 3d flight is like saying wayne gretzky couldnt handle a different hockey stick.... its just stupid
There's a threadanaught in pre-beta where I believe they stated it . They got so much flank for it , it was insane. They finally closed it . I think it approached 100 + pages. It also raged in Beta which is where the whole Alpha tester comment originate from.
page 64/112... cryptic finally responds. (6 days after initial post)
Whoa, obviously you guys have some very strong feeling on combat maneuvers within the game. The team has read your posts and taken all of them to heart, but at this stage in the game’s design we’re not adding rolls or loops into your ship’s bag of tricks.
When Craig said no one missed rolls, he meant it. No one on the team emerged from a combat situation and said, “Wow, if only I could’ve rolled my ship, I’d have won.” Much of this has to do with the way we allow players to shift power to their different shields. If you start getting hammered on your left side, you can press a button and instantly transfer shield power from one side of your ship to the other. This particular approach makes rolls and loops aesthetic rather than functional.
We’ve approached ship movement in a very certain way, and adding anything we haven’t deemed critical to that system at this stage in design would have a great chance of fouling up the works of numerous systems that we’ve implemented, tested and discovered were quite a bit of fun. All I ask is that you reserve judgment until you see the game in action.
next cryptic post is stromshade closing the thread 8 days later
think the only really good point i saw in there (and i never thought of it this way before but its accurate) is that space combat due to the lack of 3 d movement, mean that you might as well be driving a car.
you cant really go up or down (except on a slight incline) and you have 4 sides to your vehicle (ship). you really have no "top or bottom" to your ship. (that seems realisitic for a space game)
WOW... sto is autoassault in space. (and in hindsight, having played both games, that does seem kind of accurate)
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Thanks for the post op. Good to see you are enjoying it as my frineds and I are as well. We enjoy the game since there is no other game out there like it and variety is the spice of life. It appears that most fokls compare this to other mmo's and that is their downfall. It needs to be judged on it's own merit and based on that, it is a fun game.
All I read for months was how great the new SW mmo is going to be. Now I read that the new SW mmo is going to have "rail" space combat and everyone is now complaining about that. Some folks just enjoy complaining.
Well, IMO STO is a fun game and will continue to play it despite all the negative feedback since the bottom line is, to each his own. I hope all the complainers find what they are looking for, I sincerely do.
Me, I'm going to have some fun with my friends now.
Thanks for the post op. Good to see you are enjoying it as my frineds and I are as well. We enjoy the game since there is no other game out there like it and variety is the spice of life. It appears that most fokls compare this to other mmo's and that is their downfall. It needs to be judged on it's own merit and based on that, it is a fun game.
All I read for months was how great the new SW mmo is going to be. Now I read that the new SW mmo is going to have "rail" space combat and everyone is now complaining about that. Some folks just enjoy complaining.
Well, IMO STO is a fun game and will continue to play it despite all the negative feedback since the bottom line is, to each his own. I hope all the complainers find what they are looking for, I sincerely do.
Me, I'm going to have some fun with my friends now.
Thanks again op.
Life Member ?
the parts in red to me read "dont compare this game to others on the market and you will like it.
wonder why that would be vuk? (considereing there are tons of games on the market like sto, just not in a star trek setting)
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
I don't know if they said so in any interviews (I think I remember it being brought up in some articles), but anyone who was active on the forums during development can confirm this. For actual dev quotes on the subject, you'll need to check the STO archived forums. As I remember, it was brought up during the period when Cryptic started talking about flight mechanics. Normally I'd dig up the links but there were tons of no rolling/no looping threads, and each was giant sized; I don't feel like digging through hundreds (thousands?) of posts for those specific dev comments. GrandNagus (who pops in here on occasion), Hagon(bok), or JacobFlowers (also an occasional poster here) should all be able to verify it (as can anyone else who posts here and was active during that discussion period); those are the names here that I recognize from the many discussions.
Wasn't that around the same time they were claiming they HAD to put asteroid fields in every system because players got too disoriented, and some got motion sickness? I think they used the same arguement to explain why sector space made every system look like a giant lollipop. I remember people thinking that doing rolls would mean the enterprise would be dog fighting in space though.
Lol i remember them saying that, pretty funny in a lame kinda way.
I would honestly call it a decent game.. not good but decent. The core problem is to take a IP that is mostly about exploring or getting lost in space... apart from that one series... you know... the one on the space station that everyone loves.... and mush it all in to a game... Because if it is one thing a MMO is crap at it is exploration... Because after all how do you keep the players form exploring all there is... How many planets can you create to be found, and how do you keep the players from breaking the immersion when you have XKirkboatX 3n73r91c3 and about 20 others floating around in the very same area...
So... is it star trek... yes in a way. And honestly it does alot better job than many other computer games about star trek, the problem is that many people were expecting the second comming of Kirk and got a fat Janeway that just fell of the AA wagon... All in all Cryptic got over confident and are now paying for it.
I for one have enjoyed almost every bit of STO. If i had the money i would get a life time. Sure its not the best but its getting better. and if anyone needs help in STO look me up cohas@cohas79
I gad great expectations on this game. Bought it before launch and it was very disapointing. Sorry dude but the game sucks. It has two kinds of combat, space and ground. But they are both very poor imhm. Not to mention cafting, that seems to be a weak point for all Cryptic games. I really wanted it to be a good game but its not.
Thanks for the post op. Good to see you are enjoying it as my frineds and I are as well. We enjoy the game since there is no other game out there like it and variety is the spice of life. It appears that most fokls compare this to other mmo's and that is their downfall. It needs to be judged on it's own merit and based on that, it is a fun game.
All I read for months was how great the new SW mmo is going to be. Now I read that the new SW mmo is going to have "rail" space combat and everyone is now complaining about that. Some folks just enjoy complaining.
Well, IMO STO is a fun game and will continue to play it despite all the negative feedback since the bottom line is, to each his own. I hope all the complainers find what they are looking for, I sincerely do.
Me, I'm going to have some fun with my friends now.
Thanks again op.
Life Member ?
the parts in red to me read "dont compare this game to others on the market and you will like it.
wonder why that would be vuk? (considereing there are tons of games on the market like sto, just not in a star trek setting)
It would be utterly ignorant to believe people are not going to compare the good and bad of any game, against every other game, when competing for the same entertainment dollar.
And I will even go far as to say that STO fails when considered on its own "merits", especially for the money/sub fee and more so for the IP they butchered. We all know the reasons.
STO is a lousy MMO. STO is a lousy ST game. STO is a lousy ST MMO. STO is especially lousy for an ST MMO with a $15/mo + cash shop fee structure.
Thanks for the post op. Good to see you are enjoying it as my frineds and I are as well. We enjoy the game since there is no other game out there like it and variety is the spice of life. It appears that most fokls compare this to other mmo's and that is their downfall. It needs to be judged on it's own merit and based on that, it is a fun game.
All I read for months was how great the new SW mmo is going to be. Now I read that the new SW mmo is going to have "rail" space combat and everyone is now complaining about that. Some folks just enjoy complaining.
Well, IMO STO is a fun game and will continue to play it despite all the negative feedback since the bottom line is, to each his own. I hope all the complainers find what they are looking for, I sincerely do.
Me, I'm going to have some fun with my friends now.
Thanks again op.
"Biodome is a masterpiece as long as you don't compare it to any other film ever made."
"Dude Where's My Car? is a masterpiece as long as you don't compare it to any other film ever made."
"Battlefield: Earth is a masterpiece as long as you don't compare it to any other film ever made."
"Star Trek V is a good movie if you don't compare it to any other Star Trek movie out there, after all it's unique!"
See how dumb that statement looks inh another context? MMOs are capable of doing amazing things, they are unprecedented in the field of video games or even in media in general. There are probably thousands of MMOs out there of varying degrees of quality, and there will be more all the time. Quite frankly, Star Trek Online just doesn't offer the polish, the freedom, the world, the mechanics, etc. that made other MMOs good or great. STO is the very bottom of the barrel when it comes to pay to play MMOs.
Also, I would question the wisdom of telling a group of MMO players (this is MMORPG.com after all) not to compare this game with any other MMO.
Finally, if we don't compare the game to an MMO, what do we compare it with? Single player games? Because even the best MMOs tend to be put to shame by the accomplishments of single player games nowadays. I just finished Mass Effect 2 and Saints Row 2, and both games have STO beat in about every department: graphics, fun, replayability, freedom (Saints Row 2,) story (Mass Effect 2,) etc. etc.
Wasn't that around the same time they were claiming they HAD to put asteroid fields in every system because players got too disoriented, and some got motion sickness? I think they used the same arguement to explain why sector space made every system look like a giant lollipop. I remember people thinking that doing rolls would mean the enterprise would be dog fighting in space though.
I do believe that was the reason given for all the asteroid fields. As for the dogfighting, people were confusing that all the time, even though detailed descriptions (from myself and others) were given. Cryptic didn't help matters either, trying to make it sound like that was what people were wanting.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Thanks for the post op. Good to see you are enjoying it as my frineds and I are as well. We enjoy the game since there is no other game out there like it and variety is the spice of life. It appears that most fokls compare this to other mmo's and that is their downfall. It needs to be judged on it's own merit and based on that, it is a fun game.
All I read for months was how great the new SW mmo is going to be. Now I read that the new SW mmo is going to have "rail" space combat and everyone is now complaining about that. Some folks just enjoy complaining.
Well, IMO STO is a fun game and will continue to play it despite all the negative feedback since the bottom line is, to each his own. I hope all the complainers find what they are looking for, I sincerely do.
Me, I'm going to have some fun with my friends now.
Thanks again op.
Life Member ?
the parts in red to me read "dont compare this game to others on the market and you will like it.
wonder why that would be vuk? (considereing there are tons of games on the market like sto, just not in a star trek setting)
It would be utterly ignorant to believe people are not going to compare the good and bad of any game, against every other game, when competing for the same entertainment dollar.
And I will even go far as to say that STO fails when considered on its own "merits", especially for the money/sub fee and more so for the IP they butchered. We all know the reasons.
STO is a lousy MMO. STO is a lousy ST game. STO is a lousy ST MMO. STO is especially lousy for an ST MMO with a $15/mo + cash shop fee structure.
STO is just bad.
I think when you do consider it on it's own merits , it playes more like a single player then a MMO. That is the problem . As someone stated earlier , as MMO 's go exploration isn't one of the things they do well. Since they instanced it so heavily they could have opened sectors and areas a little differently and such. My original question still stands. It seems the lifers are most vociferious about defending this game and recruiting people to try it. I think they fear a repeat of Hellgate London. If you look on the forums as a barometer of how the game is doing . 75 % at a minimum are Life sub'ers either starting or posting . Of the non-identified Lifers ( non-blue tags) I'd say 50 % of those are either Lifers to embrassed to change their status or 1 year subs. So I think it matters to know if someone posting pro is a lifer . This is not saying they are all strong supporters of the game . I know many who are very upset with it. I believe the amount of money invested taints their opinon honestly.
The rumors about it being so bad says I should not waste a cent on buying it to try it.
But curious? after seeing SOE completely run SWG into the ground and ppl saying STO is even worse I definately am eager to watch it.
You will not see it too much with a trial of the game either; from what I heard, you get the base tutorial and one mission. The tutorial is not really as big as CO's was, so it's not really enough to get an accurate feel for the game.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Wasn't that around the same time they were claiming they HAD to put asteroid fields in every system because players got too disoriented, and some got motion sickness? I think they used the same arguement to explain why sector space made every system look like a giant lollipop. I remember people thinking that doing rolls would mean the enterprise would be dog fighting in space though.
I do believe that was the reason given for all the asteroid fields. As for the dogfighting, people were confusing that all the time, even though detailed descriptions (from myself and others) were given. Cryptic didn't help matters either, trying to make it sound like that was what people were wanting.
How is the space combat now not a dog fight? So what did Cryptic actually accomplish ? Ship v Ship was always going to end up a dog fight , that's what people failed to realize. PvP is dog fighting , period. It's not ballet, it is about positioning oneself and knocking the stuffing out of the other guy . It didn't matter if it was ground or space.
next cryptic post is stromshade closing the thread 8 days later
think the only really good point i saw in there (and i never thought of it this way before but its accurate) is that space combat due to the lack of 3 d movement, mean that you might as well be driving a car.
you cant really go up or down (except on a slight incline) and you have 4 sides to your vehicle (ship). you really have no "top or bottom" to your ship. (that seems realisitic for a space game)
WOW... sto is autoassault in space. (and in hindsight, having played both games, that does seem kind of accurate)
That was the post I was talking about when he said the shields would recharge instantly; they had to retract that statement later in another thread. The thing is, this is only one of the many threads on rolls/loops that were made, and those dev comments are scattered all over the place. In fact, just a couple weeks ago I saw a post on the official STO forums where someone mentioned this again, and a dev made a post stating how tired they were getting of the topic.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
How is the space combat now not a dog fight? So what did Cryptic actually accomplish ? Ship v Ship was always going to end up a dog fight , that's what people failed to realize. PvP is dog fighting , period. It's not ballet, it is about positioning oneself and knocking the stuffing out of the other guy . It didn't matter if it was ground or space.
Actually, that is incorrect, STO space combat is not a dogfight; dogfighting implies high speed, nimble craft zipping around each other doing things such as tight loops, barrel rolls, and other such agile manuevers (think of the jet combat in the movie Top Gun). Not even the nimblest ships in STO can pull that off (although in the shows and movies they did). STO's space combat is exactly what they said it would be; tall-ship combat (think of the movie Master & Commander, any of the ship-to-ship combat in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, or the Pirates of the Burning Seas MMO). Tall-ship combat is actually more what you were describing as well; it also reflects space combat (between capital ships) in Babylon 5 better than Star Trek (though there were fleet-on-fleet and ship-on-ship engagements in Star Trek that resembled tall-ship combat).
This was actually another multi-thread issue during development; STO's devs kept insisting that was all you saw in Star Trek ship-to-ship combat. Every time they would make that same post, which I think was copy and pasted eventually, forum members would not only post that you mainly saw that due to budget constraints, but would also post links to Youtube video after video that showed various ships attacking from different angles/planes, doing manuevers that Cryptic said weren't done, and zipping around all over the place (in the case of the Defiant videos). Those threads, the same dev replies, and the same showing of proof replies to the devs continued well after STO's launch.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I played the trial recently and guess what? I ordered a copy of the retail box as it was a fun way to spend a few hours, the box isn't that much and the subscriptions not expensive so its not going to break my budget.
Also some things to bear in mind are that,
I'm only a casual Star Trek fan, STO not accurately portraying the exact amount of lettuce seen in Voyagers mess hall in the 5th episode of the second season wont mortally offend me, as long as phasers and photon torpedoes make the right noise and I can fly the ships from the different shows I am happy
I hate MMOs in general, I enjoy a good single player RPG much much more with EVE online being the only exception because its simply awesome, immersive and a real virtual world with its single server and endless in game politics and shenanigans
Because I play EVE I didn't really look for huge depth or ground shaking innovation, STO seems a good cheap way to get 1-2 hours of easy going entertainment when I don't feel like logging into EVE and considering I buy several AAA PC and X-Box titles a month £8.99 for the sub is a good deal
Regarding the comments about perceived hostility to Cryptic and STO, this game isn't unique it seems more and more games on this forum are attracting a huge amount of negative attention with masses of criticism towards the games and flaming of the people who post positive things so much so its hard sometimes to see criticism as honest opinions/reflections of reality and its becoming easy to dismiss it as "haters gonna hate" when you see so much trolling.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush, Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light, Company of Heroes II.
Regarding the comments about perceived hostility to Cryptic and STO, this game isn't unique it seems more and more games on this forum are attracting a huge amount of negative attention with masses of criticism towards the games and flaming of the people who post positive things so much so its hard sometimes to see criticism as honest opinions/reflections of reality and its becoming easy to dismiss it as "haters gonna hate" when you see so much trolling.
Not so, Cryptic has pretty much bad reviews accross the spectrum not just this forum.
Not so, Cryptic has pretty much bad reviews accross the spectrum not just this forum.
Although some would like you to think otherwise, this is correct.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Regarding the comments about perceived hostility to Cryptic and STO, this game isn't unique it seems more and more games on this forum are attracting a huge amount of negative attention with masses of criticism towards the games and flaming of the people who post positive things so much so its hard sometimes to see criticism as honest opinions/reflections of reality and its becoming easy to dismiss it as "haters gonna hate" when you see so much trolling.
i agree with your sentiment about there being hostility to several titles on this forum.
what you completely fail to address is if that hostility is waranted or deserved by the game or it producers.
soe- no comment
funcom- warranted (ive played conan)
mortal on line- im not sure, but i watched a u tube video of some pvp recently and its hard to imagine its not well deseerved
sto- 100% fully earned, payed for in advance and begging for more.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Regarding the comments about perceived hostility to Cryptic and STO, this game isn't unique it seems more and more games on this forum are attracting a huge amount of negative attention with masses of criticism towards the games and flaming of the people who post positive things so much so its hard sometimes to see criticism as honest opinions/reflections of reality and its becoming easy to dismiss it as "haters gonna hate" when you see so much trolling.
i agree with your sentiment about there being hostility to several titles on this forum.
what you completely fail to address is if that hostility is waranted or deserved by the game or it producers.
soe- no comment
funcom- warranted (ive played conan)
mortal on line- im not sure, but i watched a u tube video of some pvp recently and its hard to imagine its not well deseerved
sto- 100% fully earned, payed for in advance and begging for more.
I agree , I think it speaks more to the crap being dumped on and into the market . Consumers ( in this case gamers ) in general are getting feed up .
Also, this game will naturally pick up more critisism anyway simply because its a game based on an established IP. Not only will you have game fans/critics, but you will also have the franchise fans/critics. Combine the two and what you get is a pretty big shit storm if something isnt done right.
This is not unique to STO,and it will happen to any game made after an established IP.
Just to show that its just not us here on the forums on this site that think the game has problems.. heres a link to a thread over on the STO forums where they give their input on the matter.
2- Fix the bugs that make it unplayable, or frustrating to bother playing.
3- Be playable by teams of people, so people can actually interact during gameplay. Thus attracting more star trek fans into the gaming experience.
Showstopper bugs have gone live. And aren't getting fixed. Basic gameplay is hampered. And that makes STO feel nothing like Star Trek. And everything like a short trip to the uninstall menu.
Have you read a single thing that they are saying about season 3?
The problem is ... we're months and months away from season 3, and season 2's bugs are still making a lot of the game unplayable.
Crash to desktop.
Broken anomalies.
Unable to team properly.
Empty Exploration missions.
Maps breaking and sending you to different maps.
All known bugs. All bugs not fixed.
You saying you want to wait for season 3 to get that fixed? I'd rather it get fixed long before season 2.1 patch gets released.
and also one by the well known perrigrine falcon
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkOrion69
Yeah I do read the Dev Statements, but if we see a dozen more C-Store Items launch before Season 3 launches, and the same old bugs remain, will you agree then that bugs are not Cryptic's primary concern?
I agree that bug fixes should be Cryptic's primary concern, but I don't believe that they are.
Some of you may remember that I maintained a 'Known Bugs' thread for awhile. I had to quit because the bugs were multiplying faster than I could keep track of them and I had run out of room in which to post them.
I don't expect every bug to get fixed, but how about fixing the ones that make the game completely unplayable? I really don't want to have to wait several months until Season 3 for the game breaking bugs to get fixed.
If I had my car towed to the mechanic's shop one day, and then a week later I went in and asked the mechanic, "So did you fix the engine? Can I drive my car now?" And he said, "Well, no. But I did and some neat chrome rims and a flashy paint job." My response would be, "Hey that's great! You're adding cool new stuff that I can't use to a car that's broken because you haven't fixed the engine! How much sense does that make?!?"
Same thing. How much sense does it make for Cryptic to keep adding new content to a game that many people can't even play because it's broken?
I find it particularly telling that, alone of all pay to play MMOs, Star Trek Online does not have a customer service phone number. WoW supposedly has something like 11 million customers, but they have a customer service phone number. City of Heroes has the same customer service phone number that they had when the game launched over six years ago. STO? Nope. No way to just call customer service to get things quickly straightened out.
Cryptic's customer service used to have a phone number, but then one day it was disconnected and it quietly disappeared from the website. We've asked why a great many times but it's like that question is mysteriously invisible, they've never acknowledged that it even happened, much less explained why.
I would wonder why it happened, except that I think we all know why.
Another post from another senior member (synther), this time about lag and the latest patch bringing more problems than fixes.
Yes...lots and lots of server lag. And before the devs or anyone else wants to try and put it on us, I'd like to state that I have 72 games installed on this computer. I have 0.00 latency in every other online game. But I get server lag and disconnects with this one. From 6pm to 3am Western I got nothing but lag from the servers. Of course, this lag is also in addition to not getting any samples when winning, not winning, or even quitting the scanning mini-game. As if the sample collection in B'Tran cluster wasn't F'd up enough, with us getting only Teir 1 samples, now we have to compete with not getting anything at all. These kinds of game breaking bugs at my level are making me question why I'm paying Cryptic at all.
It appears... that things are not as well in STO land as others would want you to believe.
So you see people.. there ARE problems with this game and they seem to be going unresolved all the while players are starting to get annoyed and discouraged, or already at that point. The fixes cryptic does happen to put into the game seem to either break new things or just not work as intended.
As one can see, the same tune being sung here, is being sung on the games own forum. So before you get out your troll beat down sticks and get your buckets of water out to put out the "flames" in order to "quell the haters", take a long hard look at the game try to pay at least some attention to whats being said over in STO land before you try to be STO's white knight avenger to come kill the evil trolls.
Comments
give me a trial key and I'll try the game.
The rumors about it being so bad says I should not waste a cent on buying it to try it.
But curious? after seeing SOE completely run SWG into the ground and ppl saying STO is even worse I definately am eager to watch it.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
There's a threadanaught in pre-beta where I believe they stated it . They got so much flank for it , it was insane. They finally closed it . I think it approached 100 + pages. It also raged in Beta which is where the whole Alpha tester comment originate from.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=21833
112 pages long, thx for the link vuk!
page 64/112... cryptic finally responds. (6 days after initial post)
Whoa, obviously you guys have some very strong feeling on combat maneuvers within the game. The team has read your posts and taken all of them to heart, but at this stage in the game’s design we’re not adding rolls or loops into your ship’s bag of tricks.
When Craig said no one missed rolls, he meant it. No one on the team emerged from a combat situation and said, “Wow, if only I could’ve rolled my ship, I’d have won.” Much of this has to do with the way we allow players to shift power to their different shields. If you start getting hammered on your left side, you can press a button and instantly transfer shield power from one side of your ship to the other. This particular approach makes rolls and loops aesthetic rather than functional.
We’ve approached ship movement in a very certain way, and adding anything we haven’t deemed critical to that system at this stage in design would have a great chance of fouling up the works of numerous systems that we’ve implemented, tested and discovered were quite a bit of fun. All I ask is that you reserve judgment until you see the game in action.
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next cryptic post is stromshade closing the thread 8 days later
think the only really good point i saw in there (and i never thought of it this way before but its accurate) is that space combat due to the lack of 3 d movement, mean that you might as well be driving a car.
you cant really go up or down (except on a slight incline) and you have 4 sides to your vehicle (ship). you really have no "top or bottom" to your ship. (that seems realisitic for a space game)
WOW... sto is autoassault in space. (and in hindsight, having played both games, that does seem kind of accurate)
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Life Member ?
the parts in red to me read "dont compare this game to others on the market and you will like it.
wonder why that would be vuk? (considereing there are tons of games on the market like sto, just not in a star trek setting)
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Lol i remember them saying that, pretty funny in a lame kinda way.
I would honestly call it a decent game.. not good but decent. The core problem is to take a IP that is mostly about exploring or getting lost in space... apart from that one series... you know... the one on the space station that everyone loves.... and mush it all in to a game... Because if it is one thing a MMO is crap at it is exploration... Because after all how do you keep the players form exploring all there is... How many planets can you create to be found, and how do you keep the players from breaking the immersion when you have XKirkboatX 3n73r91c3 and about 20 others floating around in the very same area...
So... is it star trek... yes in a way. And honestly it does alot better job than many other computer games about star trek, the problem is that many people were expecting the second comming of Kirk and got a fat Janeway that just fell of the AA wagon... All in all Cryptic got over confident and are now paying for it.
This have been a good conversation
I for one have enjoyed almost every bit of STO. If i had the money i would get a life time. Sure its not the best but its getting better. and if anyone needs help in STO look me up cohas@cohas79
Have No Fear Cohas is here!!!
I gad great expectations on this game. Bought it before launch and it was very disapointing. Sorry dude but the game sucks. It has two kinds of combat, space and ground. But they are both very poor imhm. Not to mention cafting, that seems to be a weak point for all Cryptic games. I really wanted it to be a good game but its not.
It would be utterly ignorant to believe people are not going to compare the good and bad of any game, against every other game, when competing for the same entertainment dollar.
And I will even go far as to say that STO fails when considered on its own "merits", especially for the money/sub fee and more so for the IP they butchered. We all know the reasons.
STO is a lousy MMO. STO is a lousy ST game. STO is a lousy ST MMO. STO is especially lousy for an ST MMO with a $15/mo + cash shop fee structure.
STO is just bad.
I had to stop playing the game cause I'd need to buy a new supply of barf bags every time I went into sector space.
"Biodome is a masterpiece as long as you don't compare it to any other film ever made."
"Dude Where's My Car? is a masterpiece as long as you don't compare it to any other film ever made."
"Battlefield: Earth is a masterpiece as long as you don't compare it to any other film ever made."
"Star Trek V is a good movie if you don't compare it to any other Star Trek movie out there, after all it's unique!"
See how dumb that statement looks inh another context? MMOs are capable of doing amazing things, they are unprecedented in the field of video games or even in media in general. There are probably thousands of MMOs out there of varying degrees of quality, and there will be more all the time. Quite frankly, Star Trek Online just doesn't offer the polish, the freedom, the world, the mechanics, etc. that made other MMOs good or great. STO is the very bottom of the barrel when it comes to pay to play MMOs.
Also, I would question the wisdom of telling a group of MMO players (this is MMORPG.com after all) not to compare this game with any other MMO.
Finally, if we don't compare the game to an MMO, what do we compare it with? Single player games? Because even the best MMOs tend to be put to shame by the accomplishments of single player games nowadays. I just finished Mass Effect 2 and Saints Row 2, and both games have STO beat in about every department: graphics, fun, replayability, freedom (Saints Row 2,) story (Mass Effect 2,) etc. etc.
I do believe that was the reason given for all the asteroid fields. As for the dogfighting, people were confusing that all the time, even though detailed descriptions (from myself and others) were given. Cryptic didn't help matters either, trying to make it sound like that was what people were wanting.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I think when you do consider it on it's own merits , it playes more like a single player then a MMO. That is the problem . As someone stated earlier , as MMO 's go exploration isn't one of the things they do well. Since they instanced it so heavily they could have opened sectors and areas a little differently and such. My original question still stands. It seems the lifers are most vociferious about defending this game and recruiting people to try it. I think they fear a repeat of Hellgate London. If you look on the forums as a barometer of how the game is doing . 75 % at a minimum are Life sub'ers either starting or posting . Of the non-identified Lifers ( non-blue tags) I'd say 50 % of those are either Lifers to embrassed to change their status or 1 year subs. So I think it matters to know if someone posting pro is a lifer . This is not saying they are all strong supporters of the game . I know many who are very upset with it. I believe the amount of money invested taints their opinon honestly.
You will not see it too much with a trial of the game either; from what I heard, you get the base tutorial and one mission. The tutorial is not really as big as CO's was, so it's not really enough to get an accurate feel for the game.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
How is the space combat now not a dog fight? So what did Cryptic actually accomplish ? Ship v Ship was always going to end up a dog fight , that's what people failed to realize. PvP is dog fighting , period. It's not ballet, it is about positioning oneself and knocking the stuffing out of the other guy . It didn't matter if it was ground or space.
That was the post I was talking about when he said the shields would recharge instantly; they had to retract that statement later in another thread. The thing is, this is only one of the many threads on rolls/loops that were made, and those dev comments are scattered all over the place. In fact, just a couple weeks ago I saw a post on the official STO forums where someone mentioned this again, and a dev made a post stating how tired they were getting of the topic.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Actually, that is incorrect, STO space combat is not a dogfight; dogfighting implies high speed, nimble craft zipping around each other doing things such as tight loops, barrel rolls, and other such agile manuevers (think of the jet combat in the movie Top Gun). Not even the nimblest ships in STO can pull that off (although in the shows and movies they did). STO's space combat is exactly what they said it would be; tall-ship combat (think of the movie Master & Commander, any of the ship-to-ship combat in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, or the Pirates of the Burning Seas MMO). Tall-ship combat is actually more what you were describing as well; it also reflects space combat (between capital ships) in Babylon 5 better than Star Trek (though there were fleet-on-fleet and ship-on-ship engagements in Star Trek that resembled tall-ship combat).
This was actually another multi-thread issue during development; STO's devs kept insisting that was all you saw in Star Trek ship-to-ship combat. Every time they would make that same post, which I think was copy and pasted eventually, forum members would not only post that you mainly saw that due to budget constraints, but would also post links to Youtube video after video that showed various ships attacking from different angles/planes, doing manuevers that Cryptic said weren't done, and zipping around all over the place (in the case of the Defiant videos). Those threads, the same dev replies, and the same showing of proof replies to the devs continued well after STO's launch.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I played the trial recently and guess what? I ordered a copy of the retail box as it was a fun way to spend a few hours, the box isn't that much and the subscriptions not expensive so its not going to break my budget.
Also some things to bear in mind are that,
I'm only a casual Star Trek fan, STO not accurately portraying the exact amount of lettuce seen in Voyagers mess hall in the 5th episode of the second season wont mortally offend me, as long as phasers and photon torpedoes make the right noise and I can fly the ships from the different shows I am happy
I hate MMOs in general, I enjoy a good single player RPG much much more with EVE online being the only exception because its simply awesome, immersive and a real virtual world with its single server and endless in game politics and shenanigans
Because I play EVE I didn't really look for huge depth or ground shaking innovation, STO seems a good cheap way to get 1-2 hours of easy going entertainment when I don't feel like logging into EVE and considering I buy several AAA PC and X-Box titles a month £8.99 for the sub is a good deal
Regarding the comments about perceived hostility to Cryptic and STO, this game isn't unique it seems more and more games on this forum are attracting a huge amount of negative attention with masses of criticism towards the games and flaming of the people who post positive things so much so its hard sometimes to see criticism as honest opinions/reflections of reality and its becoming easy to dismiss it as "haters gonna hate" when you see so much trolling.
Currently playing:
EVE online (Ruining low sec one hotdrop at a time)
Gravity Rush,
Dishonoured: The Knife of Dunwall.
(Waiting for) Metro: Last Light,
Company of Heroes II.
Not so, Cryptic has pretty much bad reviews accross the spectrum not just this forum.
Although some would like you to think otherwise, this is correct.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
This game was a disapointment for me. Recently they had a free to come back weekend and I just did not care for it.
i agree with your sentiment about there being hostility to several titles on this forum.
what you completely fail to address is if that hostility is waranted or deserved by the game or it producers.
soe- no comment
funcom- warranted (ive played conan)
mortal on line- im not sure, but i watched a u tube video of some pvp recently and its hard to imagine its not well deseerved
sto- 100% fully earned, payed for in advance and begging for more.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
I agree , I think it speaks more to the crap being dumped on and into the market . Consumers ( in this case gamers ) in general are getting feed up .
Also, this game will naturally pick up more critisism anyway simply because its a game based on an established IP. Not only will you have game fans/critics, but you will also have the franchise fans/critics. Combine the two and what you get is a pretty big shit storm if something isnt done right.
This is not unique to STO,and it will happen to any game made after an established IP.
Just to show that its just not us here on the forums on this site that think the game has problems.. heres a link to a thread over on the STO forums where they give their input on the matter.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=176721
This guys post (superchum) seems pretty accurate.
1- Be playable.
2- Fix the bugs that make it unplayable, or frustrating to bother playing.
3- Be playable by teams of people, so people can actually interact during gameplay. Thus attracting more star trek fans into the gaming experience.
Showstopper bugs have gone live. And aren't getting fixed. Basic gameplay is hampered. And that makes STO feel nothing like Star Trek. And everything like a short trip to the uninstall menu.
Yet even more posts in their forums.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=176488&page=2
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorko1
Have you read a single thing that they are saying about season 3?
The problem is ... we're months and months away from season 3, and season 2's bugs are still making a lot of the game unplayable.
Crash to desktop.
Broken anomalies.
Unable to team properly.
Empty Exploration missions.
Maps breaking and sending you to different maps.
All known bugs. All bugs not fixed.
You saying you want to wait for season 3 to get that fixed? I'd rather it get fixed long before season 2.1 patch gets released.
and also one by the well known perrigrine falcon
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkOrion69
Yeah I do read the Dev Statements, but if we see a dozen more C-Store Items launch before Season 3 launches, and the same old bugs remain, will you agree then that bugs are not Cryptic's primary concern?
I agree that bug fixes should be Cryptic's primary concern, but I don't believe that they are.
Some of you may remember that I maintained a 'Known Bugs' thread for awhile. I had to quit because the bugs were multiplying faster than I could keep track of them and I had run out of room in which to post them.
I don't expect every bug to get fixed, but how about fixing the ones that make the game completely unplayable? I really don't want to have to wait several months until Season 3 for the game breaking bugs to get fixed.
If I had my car towed to the mechanic's shop one day, and then a week later I went in and asked the mechanic, "So did you fix the engine? Can I drive my car now?" And he said, "Well, no. But I did and some neat chrome rims and a flashy paint job." My response would be, "Hey that's great! You're adding cool new stuff that I can't use to a car that's broken because you haven't fixed the engine! How much sense does that make?!?"
Same thing. How much sense does it make for Cryptic to keep adding new content to a game that many people can't even play because it's broken?
And another by Perrigrine in another thread
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=176242&page=6 (read this thread from the first page.. it points out some good stuff)
I find it particularly telling that, alone of all pay to play MMOs, Star Trek Online does not have a customer service phone number. WoW supposedly has something like 11 million customers, but they have a customer service phone number. City of Heroes has the same customer service phone number that they had when the game launched over six years ago. STO? Nope. No way to just call customer service to get things quickly straightened out.
Cryptic's customer service used to have a phone number, but then one day it was disconnected and it quietly disappeared from the website. We've asked why a great many times but it's like that question is mysteriously invisible, they've never acknowledged that it even happened, much less explained why.
I would wonder why it happened, except that I think we all know why.
Another post from another senior member (synther), this time about lag and the latest patch bringing more problems than fixes.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=176216&page=14
Yes...lots and lots of server lag. And before the devs or anyone else wants to try and put it on us, I'd like to state that I have 72 games installed on this computer. I have 0.00 latency in every other online game. But I get server lag and disconnects with this one. From 6pm to 3am Western I got nothing but lag from the servers. Of course, this lag is also in addition to not getting any samples when winning, not winning, or even quitting the scanning mini-game. As if the sample collection in B'Tran cluster wasn't F'd up enough, with us getting only Teir 1 samples, now we have to compete with not getting anything at all. These kinds of game breaking bugs at my level are making me question why I'm paying Cryptic at all.
It appears... that things are not as well in STO land as others would want you to believe.
So you see people.. there ARE problems with this game and they seem to be going unresolved all the while players are starting to get annoyed and discouraged, or already at that point. The fixes cryptic does happen to put into the game seem to either break new things or just not work as intended.
As one can see, the same tune being sung here, is being sung on the games own forum. So before you get out your troll beat down sticks and get your buckets of water out to put out the "flames" in order to "quell the haters", take a long hard look at the game try to pay at least some attention to whats being said over in STO land before you try to be STO's white knight avenger to come kill the evil trolls.