So, as an alternative viewpoint to the "Don't play" thread I'm going to take the other viewpoint (and hope some others will join me) to put across why you might want to play STO. I know I do - I'm a Lifetime Subscriber and still enjoying the game!
Please, if you want to say why people shouldn't play the game, go do it over in the other thread.
So, on we go...
It's Star Trek - If you're a Trek fan, you'll find familiar races, familiar ships and audio from your fave Star Trek show here in Star Trek Online. Walk around DS9, hear the whoosh of the turbolift doors on your starship, the blast of phasers and the pulse of photon torpedoes being fired! Walk around crappy one dimensional barely interactive representations of Star Trek... no thanks.
It's Two Games in One - A game of two halves. Not only do you have the space combat flying around in your ship but you also get to go on away missions and run around battling foes, or resolving conflict without bloodshed. Two incomplete games in one with boring repetitive gameplay... no thanks
Design a Starship - You get to design your own starship/warbird. Choose from a selection of parts, colours and designs. Go with an iconic starship class, or make something new. Star Trek Starship creator was more fun than this.
Cryptic Customisation - Cryptic games are almost unsuppassed for character customisation (see City of Heroes, Champions Online). Be a previously unknown Alien race and let your creativity flow! Character creation does not make a game. Interesting and fun gameplay does.
Expanding World - Level cap has already been raised, new missions have been and are being added (as well as entirely new mission types) and we're only six months in. All the new content is basically crap as long as the core game mechanics are boring. Yay diplomatic missions, now instead of spending 20 minutes killing the same thing over and over, I get to run around and talk to the same people over and over!
At the end of the day, on this forum there are some of us posting trial keys. Try the game out and see if you like it - if you do buy a boxed copy/digital key and stick around for a bit and see if you like it longterm!
Anyoe else care to add their good points? I think I made my point. I'm honestly not trying to be a douche, but you can't ignore how badly Cryptic did with one the best sci-fi IP's out there.
To even suggest STO has deep customisation, as they have with CO is insulting to the CO team. STO has less customisation than quite a few games that are around these days.
Cryptic used to be the first name in customization, and as you point out, CO carried on with that tradition better than STO did. However, Cryptic no longer can lay claim to being king of customization (although theirs is still generally better than most games); APB took customization to a whole new level, and has set the bar for others. Granted it's not an MMO, but if an online FPS shooter can do that then I hope that some of these MMO companies will sit up and take notice of what is possible.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
No I will never play this crap game again,I did buy it and played for about 1 month and that is it .This game is so crap it is impossible to ever make anything good from it,would be easyer to quickly convert sonic or supermario brothers to a good mmo than star trek.
Everyone is going to have a different idea of what's good for the game. I have to tell you that some of the things that people are saying break immersion kinda stun me.
There's a topic on the forums right now that is many pages long about how the devs to chose to say "left" and "right" ratrher than "port" and "starboard". There's another that talks about how one of your officers says "the ship is under attack" when in fact you attacked first.
Then, of course, you have those who complain that it feels like an SP game, then in the next breath they complain about what other players want!
Actually, that debate about port and starboard has been going on since beta (and probably before that). There are some people who wanted (and still want) STO to be a Star Trek Sims game. As for the "the ship is under attack" comment, when you start the fight (as always)? While it is a bit of a "Wait, what?" moment, anyone who finds that to be immersion breaking with all the other things that are more so are being a bit silly in my opinion.
As for the last point, I guess it depends on the conversation in question: There are many instances where the two statements are not mutually exclusive.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
It not only breaks immersion, it's very much against canon. They changed it to this because a few people complained in beta that they didn't know what port and starboard were.
Actually, Cryptic made that comment about people in the alpha testing stage; I was in closed beta from the start, and it was already set up like that. Likewise, Cryptic used that same line in regards to full 3D movement; it supposedly confused the testers and they couldn't handle it. Once again, it had to be the alpha testers, because we never had full 3D movement in closed or open beta.
Cryptic's not the only one to make those claims though; there's a Mr. Gordon who is working on Bioware's SW:TOR, and previously worked with SWG's Jump to Lightspeed expansion, who holds a similar belief that 3D space movement confuses the players, and they hate it so much that they left SWG because of it. Excuse me? WoW launched about one month after JtL was released, to the tune of about 4,000,000 players; that is the reason why SWG started losing players, not JtL.
I'd like to meet these testers who can't seem to handle 3D space flight; I'd like to know what their real problem was. Is it that the UI/HUD wasn't good enough to help them get their bearings? Perhaps these companies that make space-centered MMOs should make sure their initial testers played Wing Commander, Freespace, or any of the other old school space flight games. I don't ever remember having any problems adjusting to flight in any of those games.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
They did not raise the cap, it was always planned from start to be 51. They actually removed those levels before launch.
So not really expanding, just adding what was taken.
Yep, this is true; it was there initially during testing.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I was in the open beta and actually paid for the game. I think I played it for less than two months, for reasons too numerous to mention. The last time I suffered a disappointment in the gaming world this complete it was when the Atari 2600 version of Pac Man came out. I actually think I enjoyed that travesty more than STO. My experience with STO has made it almost certain that I will never try or subscribe to a Cryptic game ever again. STO is a massive fail on all levels as far as I am concerned, and this is coming from a major Trek fan who had high hopes for this game. There are just too many other things to do that are more entertaining.
I was in the open beta and actually paid for the game. I think I played it for less than two months, for reasons too numerous to mention. The last time I suffered a disappointment in the gaming world this complete it was when the Atari 2600 version of Pac Man came out. I actually think I enjoyed that travesty more than STO. My experience with STO has made it almost certain that I will never try or subscribe to a Cryptic game ever again. STO is a massive fail on all levels as far as I am concerned, and this is coming from a major Trek fan who had high hopes for this game. There are just too many other things to do that are more entertaining.
Well, at least you didn't say E.T.!
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
It not only breaks immersion, it's very much against canon. They changed it to this because a few people complained in beta that they didn't know what port and starboard were.
Actually, Cryptic made that comment about people in the alpha testing stage; I was in closed beta from the start, and it was already set up like that. Likewise, Cryptic used that same line in regards to full 3D movement; it supposedly confused the testers and they couldn't handle it. Once again, it had to be the alpha testers, because we never had full 3D movement in closed or open beta.
Cryptic's not the only one to make those claims though; there's a Mr. Gordon who is working on Bioware's SW:TOR, and previously worked with SWG's Jump to Lightspeed expansion, who holds a similar belief that 3D space movement confuses the players, and they hate it so much that they left SWG because of it. Excuse me? WoW launched about one month after JtL was released, to the tune of about 4,000,000 players; that is the reason why SWG started losing players, not JtL.
I'd like to meet these testers who can't seem to handle 3D space flight; I'd like to know what their real problem was. Is it that the UI/HUD wasn't good enough to help them get their bearings? Perhaps these companies that make space-centered MMOs should make sure their initial testers played Wing Commander, Freespace, or any of the other old school space flight games. I don't ever remember having any problems adjusting to flight in any of those games.
that is the biggest load of bs ive heard since i talked to my local politician.
the engine couldnt handle 3d flight- possible (i doubt this though).... now i must hide from dinedae
it would have cost too much to implement proper ui and 3d fcombat- possible (this is what i think happened)
volunteers for a space game alpha couldnt hack 3d flight- oww i just insulted everyones intelligence so much it hurts
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
that is the biggest load of bs ive heard since i talked to my local politician.
the engine couldnt handle 3d flight- possible (i doubt this though).... now i must hide from dinedae
it would have cost too much to implement proper ui and 3d fcombat- possible (this is what i think happened)
volunteers for a space game alpha couldnt hack 3d flight- oww i just insulted everyones intelligence so much it hurts
No need to hide: I never said that what they said was the truth; in fact, if you read my post, you will see that I was calling b.s. on those statements. The engine could indeed have 3D flight (or at least close to it); it was the CO engine after all, and that game had far superior 3D flight. They (Cryptic's Devs) stated that they limited the flight in STO due to "testers becoming confused and disoriented." I call b.s. on that! It wouldn't even have cost them anything additional, since it was already part of the CO engine that they copied over. I never stated that Cryptic's comments were truthful, or even reasonable, in regards to the testers; I just stated what lines they were trying to feed us.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
that is the biggest load of bs ive heard since i talked to my local politician.
the engine couldnt handle 3d flight- possible (i doubt this though).... now i must hide from dinedae
it would have cost too much to implement proper ui and 3d fcombat- possible (this is what i think happened)
volunteers for a space game alpha couldnt hack 3d flight- oww i just insulted everyones intelligence so much it hurts
No need to hide: I never said that what they said was the truth; in fact, if you read my post, you will see that I was calling b.s. on those statements. The engine could indeed have 3D flight (or at least close to it); it was the CO engine after all, and that game had far superior 3D flight. They (Cryptic's Devs) stated that they limited the flight in STO due to "testers becoming confused and disoriented." I call b.s. on that! It wouldn't even have cost them anything additional, since it was already part of the CO engine that they copied over. I never stated that Cryptic's comments were truthful, or even reasonable, in regards to the testers; I just stated what lines they were trying to feed us.
i really cant beleive they said that, any chance you could link a post or something.... that just sounds far fetched even for cryptic.
i beleive you.....it just makes no sense they would say that.
saying alpha testers couldnt handle 3d flight is like saying wayne gretzky couldnt handle a different hockey stick.... its just stupid
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
i really cant beleive they said that, any chance you could link a post or something.... that just sounds far fetched even for cryptic.
i beleive you.....it just makes no sense they would say that.
saying alpha testers couldnt handle 3d flight is like saying wayne gretzky couldnt handle a different hockey stick.... its just stupid
I don't know if they said so in any interviews (I think I remember it being brought up in some articles), but anyone who was active on the forums during development can confirm this. For actual dev quotes on the subject, you'll need to check the STO archived forums. As I remember, it was brought up during the period when Cryptic started talking about flight mechanics. Normally I'd dig up the links but there were tons of no rolling/no looping threads, and each was giant sized; I don't feel like digging through hundreds (thousands?) of posts for those specific dev comments. GrandNagus (who pops in here on occasion), Hagon(bok), or JacobFlowers (also an occasional poster here) should all be able to verify it (as can anyone else who posts here and was active during that discussion period); those are the names here that I recognize from the many discussions.
A fair number of people were upset that we weren't going to be able to roll a ship to bring a new shield to face the enemy, or do a gradual loop. Cryptic clouded the issue by arguing that these were capital ships and shouldn't handle like fighters anyway, which wasn't what most were talking about to begin with; most (arguing for rolling) were wanting something similar to Star Trek: Nemesis, where Riker ordered them to roll the ship to put a stronger shield towards the enemy. Quite a number of people were confused to begin with and thought others were asking for barrel rolls, which was something totally different.
I think it was either Zinc or Stahl who hopped into the discussion mand stated rolling would be unnecessary in any case, as the shields would recharge instantly. This started off another firestorm, but quelled when the dev came back some time later and stated that he was incorrect, and there would be a delay before a shield could recharge. It was around this time that the comments about testers having trouble with 3D. To be fair, it could have been just something they told us to try and calm the forums down; during that period Cryptic had developed a severe need to stick their feet in their mouths every week it seemed (generally happening on a Friday). Either way, I didn't believe the statements then, and I still don't.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
i really cant beleive they said that, any chance you could link a post or something.... that just sounds far fetched even for cryptic.
i beleive you.....it just makes no sense they would say that.
saying alpha testers couldnt handle 3d flight is like saying wayne gretzky couldnt handle a different hockey stick.... its just stupid
I don't know if they said so in any interviews (I think I remember it being brought up in some articles), but anyone who was active on the forums during development can confirm this. For actual dev quotes on the subject, you'll need to check the STO archived forums. As I remember, it was brought up during the period when Cryptic started talking about flight mechanics. Normally I'd dig up the links but there were tons of no rolling/no looping threads, and each was giant sized; I don't feel like digging through hundreds (thousands?) of posts for those specific dev comments. GrandNagus (who pops in here on occasion), Hagon(bok), or JacobFlowers (also an occasional poster here) should all be able to verify it (as can anyone else who posts here and was active during that discussion period); those are the names here that I recognize from the many discussions.
A fair number of people were upset that we weren't going to be able to roll a ship to bring a new shield to face the enemy, or do a gradual loop. Cryptic clouded the issue by arguing that these were capital ships and shouldn't handle like fighters anyway, which wasn't what most were talking about to begin with; most (arguing for rolling) were wanting something similar to Star Trek: Nemesis, where Riker ordered them to roll the ship to put a stronger shield towards the enemy. Quite a number of people were confused to begin with and thought others were asking for barrel rolls, which was osmething totally different.
I think it was either Zinc or Stahl who hopped into the discussion mand stated rolling would be unnecessary in any case, as the shields would recharge instantly. This started off another firestorm, but quelled when the dev came back some time later and stated that he was incorrect, and there would be a delay before a shield could recharge. It was around this time that the comments about testers having trouble with 3D. To be fair, it could have been just something they told us to try and calm the forums down; during that period Cryptic had developed a severe need to stick their feet in their mouths every week it seemed (generally happening on a Friday). Either way, I didn't believe the statements then, and I still don't.
Yeah, I remember them saying that. It really stands out because it made me mad cause it seemed like Cryptic was insulting all of our intelligence.
The JTL was different. The dev said that people who liked the ground game didn't like JTL and they were mad that dev resources went from the ground game to JTL, I don't recall anything about players being disoriented in 3D space. He did blame it on the failure of SWG, completely ignoring both NGE and the launmch of WoW of course. He might also be the reason why SWTOR has a tunnel shooter instead of a real space game.
The JTL was different. The dev said that people who liked the ground game didn't like JTL and they were mad that dev resources went from the ground game to JTL, I don't recall anything about players being disoriented in 3D space. He did blame it on the failure of SWG, completely ignoring both NGE and the launmch of WoW of course. He might also be the reason why SWTOR has a tunnel shooter instead of a real space game.
Actually the statements I attributed to Mr. Gordon concerning JtL and the players having trouble in 3D space were made by him during a conference of game developers on player rentention. I don't know the exact timelines here, but the sense I had was that this conference happened much later than JtL's launch. As such it is more of an indication of how he feels post-SWG, rather than necessarily during his SWG time. The article I saw the comments in is a bit dated now; it was written back before they had announced that SW:TOR would have space combat. I think the comments alone are a good indicator of why SW:TOR's space combat is going to be a rail-shooter though. Here are the comments, along with a link to the article (per MMORPG.com's rules):
“So it wasn't positive for retention, because the game was a very different game. It was a 3D space game. And in fact, a whole lot of people who play RPG type games don't really do the 3D thing that well -- it isn't their strongest suit. That was part of what we found out. The control scheme had to be different; everything had to be different. It was not as advantageous to us as we had hoped.”
“And in fact, we had a backlash of some anti-retention from the current customers that we already had because they were enjoying the game they were playing and wanted more of that, or wanted that fixed more than they wanted to fly around space in the Star Wars universe. It wasn't that flying around space in the Star Wars universe wasn't cool: the problem was that they wanted more of what they were already doing.”
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
i really cant beleive they said that, any chance you could link a post or something.... that just sounds far fetched even for cryptic.
i beleive you.....it just makes no sense they would say that.
saying alpha testers couldnt handle 3d flight is like saying wayne gretzky couldnt handle a different hockey stick.... its just stupid
I don't know if they said so in any interviews (I think I remember it being brought up in some articles), but anyone who was active on the forums during development can confirm this. For actual dev quotes on the subject, you'll need to check the STO archived forums. As I remember, it was brought up during the period when Cryptic started talking about flight mechanics. Normally I'd dig up the links but there were tons of no rolling/no looping threads, and each was giant sized; I don't feel like digging through hundreds (thousands?) of posts for those specific dev comments. GrandNagus (who pops in here on occasion), Hagon(bok), or JacobFlowers (also an occasional poster here) should all be able to verify it (as can anyone else who posts here and was active during that discussion period); those are the names here that I recognize from the many discussions.
A fair number of people were upset that we weren't going to be able to roll a ship to bring a new shield to face the enemy, or do a gradual loop. Cryptic clouded the issue by arguing that these were capital ships and shouldn't handle like fighters anyway, which wasn't what most were talking about to begin with; most (arguing for rolling) were wanting something similar to Star Trek: Nemesis, where Riker ordered them to roll the ship to put a stronger shield towards the enemy. Quite a number of people were confused to begin with and thought others were asking for barrel rolls, which was something totally different.
I think it was either Zinc or Stahl who hopped into the discussion mand stated rolling would be unnecessary in any case, as the shields would recharge instantly. This started off another firestorm, but quelled when the dev came back some time later and stated that he was incorrect, and there would be a delay before a shield could recharge. It was around this time that the comments about testers having trouble with 3D. To be fair, it could have been just something they told us to try and calm the forums down; during that period Cryptic had developed a severe need to stick their feet in their mouths every week it seemed (generally happening on a Friday). Either way, I didn't believe the statements then, and I still don't.
yeah this sounds about right. as i said in the other post about the engine not being as limited as cryptics says, ive always felt that cryptic would rather say "cant be done" rather then say its not what they are going to do. ive felt for a while that they keep trapping themselves with that, maybe like with coh they will eventually have to leave and someone can take the game over and actually show us what the engine is capable of and make some serious improvements.
i keep getting the impression from cryptic that there managers would rather say what sounds good at the time and worry about the consequences later...... anyone else remember "some people just dont get it"
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
i keep getting the impression from cryptic that there managers would rather say what sounds good at the time and worry about the consequences later...... anyone else remember "some people just dont get it"
I think you may just be right on that.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
So, as an alternative viewpoint to the "Don't play" thread I'm going to take the other viewpoint (and hope some others will join me) to put across why you might want to play STO. I know I do - I'm a Lifetime Subscriber and still enjoying the game!
Please, if you want to say why people shouldn't play the game, go do it over in the other thread.
So, on we go...
It's Star Trek - If you're a Trek fan, you'll find familiar races, familiar ships and audio from your fave Star Trek show here in Star Trek Online. Walk around DS9, hear the whoosh of the turbolift doors on your starship, the blast of phasers and the pulse of photon torpedoes being fired!
Iits trash, it isnt Startrek it is a mediocre fishtank with spaceships
It's Two Games in One - A game of two halves. Not only do you have the space combat flying around in your ship but you also get to go on away missions and run around battling foes, or resolving conflict without bloodshed.
ye that is nice, now you don't have one part unfinished and boring, ya get two, yay?
Design a Starship - You get to design your own starship/warbird. Choose from a selection of parts, colours and designs. Go with an iconic starship class, or make something new.
Hah, dont make us laugh, the parts are so similar there is hardly a difference. To make it even better, to get a remotely decent looking starship you have to pay up
Cryptic Customisation - Cryptic games are almost unsuppassed for character customisation (see City of Heroes, Champions Online). Be a previously unknown Alien race and let your creativity flow!
Have fun paying, i will just play other mmo's that don't force me to pay to get to your "unsurpassed customisation"
Expanding World - Level cap has already been raised, new missions have been and are being added (as well as entirely new mission types) and we're only six months in
your point being? it still is unfinished, lack any proper endgame and is just boring. It got released as a mediocre game and only got worse. Nice
So, as an alternative viewpoint to the "Don't play" thread I'm going to take the other viewpoint (and hope some others will join me) to put across why you might want to play STO. I know I do - I'm a Lifetime Subscriber and still enjoying the game!
Please, if you want to say why people shouldn't play the game, go do it over in the other thread.
So, on we go...
It's Star Trek - If you're a Trek fan, you'll find familiar races, familiar ships and audio from your fave Star Trek show here in Star Trek Online. Walk around DS9, hear the whoosh of the turbolift doors on your starship, the blast of phasers and the pulse of photon torpedoes being fired!
Iits trash, it isnt Startrek it is a mediocre fishtank with spaceships
It's Two Games in One - A game of two halves. Not only do you have the space combat flying around in your ship but you also get to go on away missions and run around battling foes, or resolving conflict without bloodshed.
ye that is nice, now you don't have one part unfinished and boring, ya get two, yay?
Design a Starship - You get to design your own starship/warbird. Choose from a selection of parts, colours and designs. Go with an iconic starship class, or make something new.
Hah, dont make us laugh, the parts are so similar there is hardly a difference. To make it even better, to get a remotely decent looking starship you have to pay up
Cryptic Customisation - Cryptic games are almost unsuppassed for character customisation (see City of Heroes, Champions Online). Be a previously unknown Alien race and let your creativity flow!
Have fun paying, i will just play other mmo's that don't force me to pay to get to your "unsurpassed customisation"
Expanding World - Level cap has already been raised, new missions have been and are being added (as well as entirely new mission types) and we're only six months in
your point being? it still is unfinished, lack any proper endgame and is just boring. It got released as a mediocre game and only got worse. Nice
that is the biggest load of bs ive heard since i talked to my local politician.
the engine couldnt handle 3d flight- possible (i doubt this though).... now i must hide from dinedae
it would have cost too much to implement proper ui and 3d fcombat- possible (this is what i think happened)
volunteers for a space game alpha couldnt hack 3d flight- oww i just insulted everyones intelligence so much it hurts
No need to hide: I never said that what they said was the truth; in fact, if you read my post, you will see that I was calling b.s. on those statements. The engine could indeed have 3D flight (or at least close to it); it was the CO engine after all, and that game had far superior 3D flight. They (Cryptic's Devs) stated that they limited the flight in STO due to "testers becoming confused and disoriented." I call b.s. on that! It wouldn't even have cost them anything additional, since it was already part of the CO engine that they copied over. I never stated that Cryptic's comments were truthful, or even reasonable, in regards to the testers; I just stated what lines they were trying to feed us.
i really cant beleive they said that, any chance you could link a post or something.... that just sounds far fetched even for cryptic.
i beleive you.....it just makes no sense they would say that.
saying alpha testers couldnt handle 3d flight is like saying wayne gretzky couldnt handle a different hockey stick.... its just stupid
There's a threadanaught in pre-beta where I believe they stated it . They got so much flank for it , it was insane. They finally closed it . I think it approached 100 + pages. It also raged in Beta which is where the whole Alpha tester comment originate from.
Thanks for the post op. Good to see you are enjoying it as my frineds and I are as well. We enjoy the game since there is no other game out there like it and variety is the spice of life. It appears that most fokls compare this to other mmo's and that is their downfall. It needs to be judged on it's own merit and based on that, it is a fun game.
All I read for months was how great the new SW mmo is going to be. Now I read that the new SW mmo is going to have "rail" space combat and everyone is now complaining about that. Some folks just enjoy complaining.
Well, IMO STO is a fun game and will continue to play it despite all the negative feedback since the bottom line is, to each his own. I hope all the complainers find what they are looking for, I sincerely do.
Me, I'm going to have some fun with my friends now.
Comments
I would play if i didn't have to do any ground combat, i found it to be terrible.
Cryptic used to be the first name in customization, and as you point out, CO carried on with that tradition better than STO did. However, Cryptic no longer can lay claim to being king of customization (although theirs is still generally better than most games); APB took customization to a whole new level, and has set the bar for others. Granted it's not an MMO, but if an online FPS shooter can do that then I hope that some of these MMO companies will sit up and take notice of what is possible.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
No I will never play this crap game again,I did buy it and played for about 1 month and that is it .This game is so crap it is impossible to ever make anything good from it,would be easyer to quickly convert sonic or supermario brothers to a good mmo than star trek.
Actually, that debate about port and starboard has been going on since beta (and probably before that). There are some people who wanted (and still want) STO to be a Star Trek Sims game. As for the "the ship is under attack" comment, when you start the fight (as always)? While it is a bit of a "Wait, what?" moment, anyone who finds that to be immersion breaking with all the other things that are more so are being a bit silly in my opinion.
As for the last point, I guess it depends on the conversation in question: There are many instances where the two statements are not mutually exclusive.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Actually, Cryptic made that comment about people in the alpha testing stage; I was in closed beta from the start, and it was already set up like that. Likewise, Cryptic used that same line in regards to full 3D movement; it supposedly confused the testers and they couldn't handle it. Once again, it had to be the alpha testers, because we never had full 3D movement in closed or open beta.
Cryptic's not the only one to make those claims though; there's a Mr. Gordon who is working on Bioware's SW:TOR, and previously worked with SWG's Jump to Lightspeed expansion, who holds a similar belief that 3D space movement confuses the players, and they hate it so much that they left SWG because of it. Excuse me? WoW launched about one month after JtL was released, to the tune of about 4,000,000 players; that is the reason why SWG started losing players, not JtL.
I'd like to meet these testers who can't seem to handle 3D space flight; I'd like to know what their real problem was. Is it that the UI/HUD wasn't good enough to help them get their bearings? Perhaps these companies that make space-centered MMOs should make sure their initial testers played Wing Commander, Freespace, or any of the other old school space flight games. I don't ever remember having any problems adjusting to flight in any of those games.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Yep, this is true; it was there initially during testing.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I was in the open beta and actually paid for the game. I think I played it for less than two months, for reasons too numerous to mention. The last time I suffered a disappointment in the gaming world this complete it was when the Atari 2600 version of Pac Man came out. I actually think I enjoyed that travesty more than STO. My experience with STO has made it almost certain that I will never try or subscribe to a Cryptic game ever again. STO is a massive fail on all levels as far as I am concerned, and this is coming from a major Trek fan who had high hopes for this game. There are just too many other things to do that are more entertaining.
Well, at least you didn't say E.T.!
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
that is the biggest load of bs ive heard since i talked to my local politician.
the engine couldnt handle 3d flight- possible (i doubt this though).... now i must hide from dinedae
it would have cost too much to implement proper ui and 3d fcombat- possible (this is what i think happened)
volunteers for a space game alpha couldnt hack 3d flight- oww i just insulted everyones intelligence so much it hurts
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
No need to hide: I never said that what they said was the truth; in fact, if you read my post, you will see that I was calling b.s. on those statements. The engine could indeed have 3D flight (or at least close to it); it was the CO engine after all, and that game had far superior 3D flight. They (Cryptic's Devs) stated that they limited the flight in STO due to "testers becoming confused and disoriented." I call b.s. on that! It wouldn't even have cost them anything additional, since it was already part of the CO engine that they copied over. I never stated that Cryptic's comments were truthful, or even reasonable, in regards to the testers; I just stated what lines they were trying to feed us.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
i really cant beleive they said that, any chance you could link a post or something.... that just sounds far fetched even for cryptic.
i beleive you.....it just makes no sense they would say that.
saying alpha testers couldnt handle 3d flight is like saying wayne gretzky couldnt handle a different hockey stick.... its just stupid
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
I don't know if they said so in any interviews (I think I remember it being brought up in some articles), but anyone who was active on the forums during development can confirm this. For actual dev quotes on the subject, you'll need to check the STO archived forums. As I remember, it was brought up during the period when Cryptic started talking about flight mechanics. Normally I'd dig up the links but there were tons of no rolling/no looping threads, and each was giant sized; I don't feel like digging through hundreds (thousands?) of posts for those specific dev comments. GrandNagus (who pops in here on occasion), Hagon(bok), or JacobFlowers (also an occasional poster here) should all be able to verify it (as can anyone else who posts here and was active during that discussion period); those are the names here that I recognize from the many discussions.
A fair number of people were upset that we weren't going to be able to roll a ship to bring a new shield to face the enemy, or do a gradual loop. Cryptic clouded the issue by arguing that these were capital ships and shouldn't handle like fighters anyway, which wasn't what most were talking about to begin with; most (arguing for rolling) were wanting something similar to Star Trek: Nemesis, where Riker ordered them to roll the ship to put a stronger shield towards the enemy. Quite a number of people were confused to begin with and thought others were asking for barrel rolls, which was something totally different.
I think it was either Zinc or Stahl who hopped into the discussion mand stated rolling would be unnecessary in any case, as the shields would recharge instantly. This started off another firestorm, but quelled when the dev came back some time later and stated that he was incorrect, and there would be a delay before a shield could recharge. It was around this time that the comments about testers having trouble with 3D. To be fair, it could have been just something they told us to try and calm the forums down; during that period Cryptic had developed a severe need to stick their feet in their mouths every week it seemed (generally happening on a Friday). Either way, I didn't believe the statements then, and I still don't.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Yeah, I remember them saying that. It really stands out because it made me mad cause it seemed like Cryptic was insulting all of our intelligence.
The JTL was different. The dev said that people who liked the ground game didn't like JTL and they were mad that dev resources went from the ground game to JTL, I don't recall anything about players being disoriented in 3D space. He did blame it on the failure of SWG, completely ignoring both NGE and the launmch of WoW of course. He might also be the reason why SWTOR has a tunnel shooter instead of a real space game.
Actually the statements I attributed to Mr. Gordon concerning JtL and the players having trouble in 3D space were made by him during a conference of game developers on player rentention. I don't know the exact timelines here, but the sense I had was that this conference happened much later than JtL's launch. As such it is more of an indication of how he feels post-SWG, rather than necessarily during his SWG time. The article I saw the comments in is a bit dated now; it was written back before they had announced that SW:TOR would have space combat. I think the comments alone are a good indicator of why SW:TOR's space combat is going to be a rail-shooter though. Here are the comments, along with a link to the article (per MMORPG.com's rules):
“So it wasn't positive for retention, because the game was a very different game. It was a 3D space game. And in fact, a whole lot of people who play RPG type games don't really do the 3D thing that well -- it isn't their strongest suit. That was part of what we found out. The control scheme had to be different; everything had to be different. It was not as advantageous to us as we had hoped.”
“And in fact, we had a backlash of some anti-retention from the current customers that we already had because they were enjoying the game they were playing and wanted more of that, or wanted that fixed more than they wanted to fly around space in the Star Wars universe. It wasn't that flying around space in the Star Wars universe wasn't cool: the problem was that they wanted more of what they were already doing.”
Article
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
yeah this sounds about right. as i said in the other post about the engine not being as limited as cryptics says, ive always felt that cryptic would rather say "cant be done" rather then say its not what they are going to do. ive felt for a while that they keep trapping themselves with that, maybe like with coh they will eventually have to leave and someone can take the game over and actually show us what the engine is capable of and make some serious improvements.
i keep getting the impression from cryptic that there managers would rather say what sounds good at the time and worry about the consequences later...... anyone else remember "some people just dont get it"
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
I think you may just be right on that.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Clicky for Rift trial
Let me guess, They got your kittens too?
Yes
Clicky for Rift trial
Unforgiveable rape to the greatest IP ever existed by Cryptic.
This game needs to die.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I threw up in my mouth a little when I saw Sector Space
Total MMOs played: 274|Enjoyed: 9. >:|
There's a threadanaught in pre-beta where I believe they stated it . They got so much flank for it , it was insane. They finally closed it . I think it approached 100 + pages. It also raged in Beta which is where the whole Alpha tester comment originate from.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=21833
Thanks for the post op. Good to see you are enjoying it as my frineds and I are as well. We enjoy the game since there is no other game out there like it and variety is the spice of life. It appears that most fokls compare this to other mmo's and that is their downfall. It needs to be judged on it's own merit and based on that, it is a fun game.
All I read for months was how great the new SW mmo is going to be. Now I read that the new SW mmo is going to have "rail" space combat and everyone is now complaining about that. Some folks just enjoy complaining.
Well, IMO STO is a fun game and will continue to play it despite all the negative feedback since the bottom line is, to each his own. I hope all the complainers find what they are looking for, I sincerely do.
Me, I'm going to have some fun with my friends now.
Thanks again op.