Game developers have to use harsh DP to make gameplay challenging is just lame.
Harsh DP seems like a Developers lazy way out of developing challenging gameplay thats interesting.
Iam going to use a game from another genre to explain my point.
Take Halo 1&2 (since I never play others). Its a FPS, and has multiple gameplay difficulties, yet the gameplay never changes among the difficulties.
How is that possible without tagging on a gimmick harsh DP like some games do.
Demonsoul, on the other hand, has a harsh DP. But lets be real. Without the harsh DP on DemonSoul, would it really be challenging? LOL Heck no!!
Once again a Developer using HDP as a lazy way out of making good gameplay.
Like Halo, Blizzard's WoW MMO has shown it is capable of making Hard, Challenging, and Interesting gameplay all in a single game without the need for Harsh DP.
If Blizzard can do it, why cant other developers?
And dont hand me that age old excuse that WoW been on the market for years and had time to develop. That excuse gets old.
I've played plenty of DP free games and I still do and enjoy them but if I am going to spend time grinding in a game (MMORPG) than it better have a harsh DP or I will get way too bored. I can only get entertained by a no DP game for an hour or so tops. PVE with no penalty I will not touch ever . .. no way will I ever do that. There needs to be more games like the original EQ (rallos zek), UO pre-trammel, Darkfall, etc.
The more that it sucks to lose means the bigger rush that you will have when you win.
It's an emotional thing . .. kind of like gambling with 100$ vs 10000$
Some like to play it safe while others are addicted to the adrenaline rush.
I don't care how challenging WoW becomes . .. I will never play it unless they implement a harsh DP.
This is why I fit into a 'niche' . .. most people agree with you and do not want to take risks.
I don't like Halo and never played Demonsoul btw . .. never played Wow either.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I don't care how challenging WoW becomes . .. I will never play it unless they implement a harsh DP.
ya but if they implement a harsh death penalty wow server will you play in it?
I would definitely try and look past the art that I do not really like and try it (since it would probably be really crowded at first and fun as hell!). I havent really played a game where I felt like most people were kids since Guildwars so that would probably bother me a lot to play Wow. I know a lot of adults who play it but just saying . .. also know of kids as young as 6 who play it.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Harsh DP cause players to become better, more cautious players. You have to play smarter, and are much more likely to rely on your fellow players.
In my experience it causes players to NOT try challenges and to not do anything that might have them lose something.
Can't tell you how many times I've suggested trying somethign and had someone say "we don't have the right party so we'll probably wipe".
As far as my preference, doesn't matter. In the end the idea of failure is the only penalty I need.
My problem is that players don't try challenges regardless of penalty. So many MMO players (i've seen this across many different games) are simply too lazy to try something if they don't know they can win. I'll see "we don't have the right party so we'll probably wipe" in WoW and WAR, and their penalties are barely there. That part is more of a community issue than anything else.
But I loved the harsh death penalty in Lineage2, it made PvP exciting, it made me care about the outcome. the build up to a fight was a lot more fun than PvP in WoW or WAR or GW because the fight meant something, something more than spamming annoying emotes in chat after you win.
I wish more people were in it for fun. My buddy and I are duoing Vanguard right now and have countless deaths and loss EXP to poking our heads in caves and areas it didn't belong. Since there's a small population, few guides and I haven't made it very far, everything is an adventure. I'd rather die exploring than follow an e-z path to purplez.
having played games that had a DP as well as those that havent...I must say that having a DP does add a sense of depth to the game for me...and I'm a PVE'r...I start to feel more connected to my character and if something happens and I do die it makes me rethink my previous decisions and strategies as well as feel a sense of temporary loss for whatever I have lost...however I will say that I have quit a game over a harsh DP...I felt that the game was really unbalanced and there were just too many ways to die...so I couldnt justify putting in many hours of work for that particular game...other than that if a game is well made and a DP is well implemented I think it can really enhance my gaming experience...i hardly consider it "lazy" development...just another aspect that can increase depth to a gaming experience if done right
Personally, I think that we need some kind of death penalty. I think that if we are unfortunate enough to die but lucky enough to be able revive our characters we should at least have to go through some ordeal in order to earn that right. I think that using catalysts in Ryzom has made harsh dps vanish much faster than in other games that enforce death penalties that are based on a point system. I think that some games have way too harsh a dp though. I can see where that is frustrating, especially when there are no items that make removing a death penalty easier.
Personally, I think that we need some kind of death penalty. I think that if we are unfortunate enough to die but lucky enough to be able revive our characters we should at least have to go through some ordeal in order to earn that right. I think that using catalysts in Ryzom has made harsh dps vanish much faster than in other games that enforce death penalties that are based on a point system. I think that some games have way too harsh a dp though. I can see where that is frustrating, especially when there are no items that make removing a death penalty easier.
that would be a great cash shop item :P. its not game changeing when faceing others, but would be worth the money to others but you could play without it.
for a drop if you die game, it grants you "death grip" for how ever many hours or even days.
for health drop, it reduces how long it takes to gain it back.
for exp loss it either keeps you safe from it or you gess less of a drop.
Personally, I think that we need some kind of death penalty. I think that if we are unfortunate enough to die but lucky enough to be able revive our characters we should at least have to go through some ordeal in order to earn that right. I think that using catalysts in Ryzom has made harsh dps vanish much faster than in other games that enforce death penalties that are based on a point system. I think that some games have way too harsh a dp though. I can see where that is frustrating, especially when there are no items that make removing a death penalty easier.
hey chinese and korean dudes who make terrible games, here's how to exploit cash out of me: ...
Interesting.
Unrelated: Can you guys type out death penalty? Is it really so difficult? Are you typing from a cell phone? Your opinion will be far more respected if you actually type out what you're trying to say instead of being lazy and using ambiguous acronyms.
Edit: Should probably include some sort of opinion here too. I'm with the everyone who says we need a harsh death penalty. If there's little or no incentive to stay alive then people will run around dieing all the time without a care in the world. It diminishes any sort of accomplishment you could've had. Basically insignificant death penalties are for babies and are just an attempt from game developers to appeal to the non-gamer.
Personally, I think that we need some kind of death penalty. I think that if we are unfortunate enough to die but lucky enough to be able revive our characters we should at least have to go through some ordeal in order to earn that right. I think that using catalysts in Ryzom has made harsh dps vanish much faster than in other games that enforce death penalties that are based on a point system. I think that some games have way too harsh a dp though. I can see where that is frustrating, especially when there are no items that make removing a death penalty easier.
hey chinese and korean dudes who make terrible games, here's how to exploit cash out of me: ...
Interesting.
Unrelated: Can you guys type out death penalty? Is it really so difficult? Are you typing from a cell phone? Your opinion will be far more respected if you actually type out what you're trying to say instead of being lazy and using ambiguous acronyms.
dont teist what i say. i never pay for things in cash shops. but it is a fair thing to put in iwould not buy.
People keep mentioning WoW and how it doesn't have death penalties. No, it doesn't have death penalties in the sense that your stats or your money is reduced, but there is consequences to dying still, especially in a raid environment. If you die in a raid in that game, you have to go through the trouble of running back to the dungeon and rebuffing, and possibly readjusting your gameplan for the fights you are up against.
This can take a few minutes to get ready to get everything ready to get going through the dungeon, but if you keep dying, you have to redo the process again, and if you fail again, it has to be repeated. It becomes really draining after a while considering the time spent, consumables and the repair bills that have to be taken care of.
I can understand why some people enjoy steep death penalties, but they really aren't necessary to make a game more challenging. I personally think it is just over the top and dying is already a harsh enough penalty when you consider common factors associating it.
Just one death in many games, especially team based games can be the difference between success and failure. I'm sure many of you have experienced what that is like.
MMOs are already a large enough time sink, adding another in the form of a huge death penalty just makes it more draining.
it's all about demographics. harsh DPs mean less customers, less customers mean less money. most devs want to cater to the supra casual player. they know they will NEVER satisfy the "hardcores" that play MMOs like it if was a real life job. And who said that Harsh DP equals challenging gameplay?
Comments
For games that have full loot world pvp, it add another layers of game play. Particularlly the wolf-sheep model, or pirate/bandit game play.
I've played plenty of DP free games and I still do and enjoy them but if I am going to spend time grinding in a game (MMORPG) than it better have a harsh DP or I will get way too bored. I can only get entertained by a no DP game for an hour or so tops. PVE with no penalty I will not touch ever . .. no way will I ever do that. There needs to be more games like the original EQ (rallos zek), UO pre-trammel, Darkfall, etc.
The more that it sucks to lose means the bigger rush that you will have when you win.
It's an emotional thing . .. kind of like gambling with 100$ vs 10000$
Some like to play it safe while others are addicted to the adrenaline rush.
I don't care how challenging WoW becomes . .. I will never play it unless they implement a harsh DP.
This is why I fit into a 'niche' . .. most people agree with you and do not want to take risks.
I don't like Halo and never played Demonsoul btw . .. never played Wow either.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
ya but if they implement a harsh death penalty wow server will you play in it?
I would definitely try and look past the art that I do not really like and try it (since it would probably be really crowded at first and fun as hell!). I havent really played a game where I felt like most people were kids since Guildwars so that would probably bother me a lot to play Wow. I know a lot of adults who play it but just saying . .. also know of kids as young as 6 who play it.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
I wish more people were in it for fun. My buddy and I are duoing Vanguard right now and have countless deaths and loss EXP to poking our heads in caves and areas it didn't belong. Since there's a small population, few guides and I haven't made it very far, everything is an adventure. I'd rather die exploring than follow an e-z path to purplez.
having played games that had a DP as well as those that havent...I must say that having a DP does add a sense of depth to the game for me...and I'm a PVE'r...I start to feel more connected to my character and if something happens and I do die it makes me rethink my previous decisions and strategies as well as feel a sense of temporary loss for whatever I have lost...however I will say that I have quit a game over a harsh DP...I felt that the game was really unbalanced and there were just too many ways to die...so I couldnt justify putting in many hours of work for that particular game...other than that if a game is well made and a DP is well implemented I think it can really enhance my gaming experience...i hardly consider it "lazy" development...just another aspect that can increase depth to a gaming experience if done right
I AM like the wind!
Personally, I think that we need some kind of death penalty. I think that if we are unfortunate enough to die but lucky enough to be able revive our characters we should at least have to go through some ordeal in order to earn that right. I think that using catalysts in Ryzom has made harsh dps vanish much faster than in other games that enforce death penalties that are based on a point system. I think that some games have way too harsh a dp though. I can see where that is frustrating, especially when there are no items that make removing a death penalty easier.
www.ryzom.com
that would be a great cash shop item :P. its not game changeing when faceing others, but would be worth the money to others but you could play without it.
for a drop if you die game, it grants you "death grip" for how ever many hours or even days.
for health drop, it reduces how long it takes to gain it back.
for exp loss it either keeps you safe from it or you gess less of a drop.
Interesting.
Unrelated: Can you guys type out death penalty? Is it really so difficult? Are you typing from a cell phone? Your opinion will be far more respected if you actually type out what you're trying to say instead of being lazy and using ambiguous acronyms.
Edit: Should probably include some sort of opinion here too. I'm with the everyone who says we need a harsh death penalty. If there's little or no incentive to stay alive then people will run around dieing all the time without a care in the world. It diminishes any sort of accomplishment you could've had. Basically insignificant death penalties are for babies and are just an attempt from game developers to appeal to the non-gamer.
dont teist what i say. i never pay for things in cash shops. but it is a fair thing to put in iwould not buy.
Beating that dead horse again ?
There sre so many blogs an Top 5 lists on mmorpg. Isn't there one with the "Top 5 dead horses beaten concerning mmo's " ? Like
- death penalty
- skill vs level based
- sandbox vs themeparks and so on
and so on. Why not just accept the fact that different people have different preferences.
Theoden: Spears shall be shaken, shields shall be splintered! A sword day... a red day... ere the sun rises!
Theoden: Ride now!... Ride now!... Ride! Ride to ruin and the world's ending!
[He stops and faces Sauron's army]
Theoden: Death!
Rohirrim: [echoing] Death!
Theoden: Death!
Rohirrim: [echoing] Death!
Theoden: DEATH!
Overcoming the fear of death and facing danger in spite of it is what makes an mmo experience epic.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
People keep mentioning WoW and how it doesn't have death penalties. No, it doesn't have death penalties in the sense that your stats or your money is reduced, but there is consequences to dying still, especially in a raid environment. If you die in a raid in that game, you have to go through the trouble of running back to the dungeon and rebuffing, and possibly readjusting your gameplan for the fights you are up against.
This can take a few minutes to get ready to get everything ready to get going through the dungeon, but if you keep dying, you have to redo the process again, and if you fail again, it has to be repeated. It becomes really draining after a while considering the time spent, consumables and the repair bills that have to be taken care of.
I can understand why some people enjoy steep death penalties, but they really aren't necessary to make a game more challenging. I personally think it is just over the top and dying is already a harsh enough penalty when you consider common factors associating it.
Just one death in many games, especially team based games can be the difference between success and failure. I'm sure many of you have experienced what that is like.
MMOs are already a large enough time sink, adding another in the form of a huge death penalty just makes it more draining.
it's all about demographics. harsh DPs mean less customers, less customers mean less money. most devs want to cater to the supra casual player. they know they will NEVER satisfy the "hardcores" that play MMOs like it if was a real life job. And who said that Harsh DP equals challenging gameplay?