OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by alexanys1982
Originally posted by Dana
Note, I'm jumping in here purely as a geek not as someone from the site...
But, to play devil's advocate, Superman pretty much breaks every superhero rule too. He's tough to balance and I suspect this may be one thing they pretty much cannot get right.
I've asked them exactly this question before and got that same answer. My guess is there will be more kryptonite situations than Smallville But who knows.
Regardless, even if people do just have to accept that Superman is no cooler than the other superheroes, it shouldn't matter much since his rules don't even apply to them obviously. For example, the "inspired by" function they have for people who want to base themselves around a certain guy are tough with Superman too. I never really got a full answer since he's basically just all of them combined. I suspect they're just going to have to dodge around this a lot to make a proper game.
I never understood why someone didnt just fashion a bullet out of Kryptonite and shoot him in the heart years ago. I guess in Luthors future he finnaly did it, ( spearhead, not bullet) but still. Took long enough.
You're forgetting Superman's intro line back to his earliest days was "faster than a speeding bullet." Unless Kryptonite is more aerodynamic, that includes a kryptonite bullet.
Create a plot device that explains that Lois Lane was infected by a magical disease that saps her life force to the point where she's comatose and could potentially die from until Zatanna forges a magical ring that Supes has to wear that takes half his solar absorbing ability and converts it to lifeforce energy needed to keep Lois alive (instead of using it to keep himself fully charged). Thus his weaken state (limited ability of absorbing solar energy) and frequent absences (to find a cure).
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Me and a friend were thinking about this the other day. We decided that rather than superman types being weak. That a kryptonian race should be an epic, unlockable character - something like Jedi in old swg, or deathknights in WoW or a better version of the squids in CoH/V.
Something where after you get to a certain level/quest whatever you now get this super super race. Man I would love that.
Venge Sunsoar
Yeah!
And then no one will play the game! Just like SWG!
No one likes Alpha classes. No one likes feeling inferior to another player, who might actually have less skill than them. It's just terrible game design to purposefully create an unbalanced class atmosphere.
First of all, the "Modern-Era" Superman is by design much weaker than other incarnations of him. He has only recently been able to take extended space trips again, and moving planets etc is out of the question.
That aside, the story for the game is that Brainiac was siphoning super-powers, including those of Superman, Captain Marvel, Black Adam, and other "REALLY powerful guys." Luthor steals these and distributes them over the current world. That means people "the players" may even be getting portions of Supermans own power. They (after much training) will be on even footing with the iconic heroes. The Devs have said as much. You will be mentored by a hero of your choice, but that doesnt imply you are weaker. Just less experienced. As you defeat some of their lesser enemies, they will give you more trust, until eventually you help them defeat a major foe. After that, they see you as an equal, and just check in with you from time to time. You will be powerful enough to fight their major foes...and for Lex Luthors proteges, that includes Superman. At least, thats sort of the gist of what the Devs have been saying.
Originally posted by MisterZebub Originally posted by Tazlor if they made superman invincible like he was in the comics he would be....invincible. i don't think that would work in a MMORPG. they had to nerf him.
So let me get this straight. Superman has been around for 72 years. His powers have never been a problem in DC Universe comics for all these years. In fact clever writers have come up with scenarios where even non-powered heroes and villains have found a way to defeat Superman. But now you are telling us that because they are making a DC Universe online game they have to completely change a 72 year old character to fit their poorly designed piece of fluff? And you are OK with that!? F*ck that! If they can't be bothered to be faithful to the source material they are drawing their ideas from they don't deserve to use that source material. What a bunch of moronic hacks.
Although I appreciate your passion to stick to the classic "well thought out" story - get real. Superman has every power in the book. He talks like a retard. ...and he's not even human. What a great "person" I can really relate to. It's about time they made him into something. Maybe they'll recognize him as the crappy McCrappy-pants he actually is.
OK, now you dedicated DC fans correct me if I am wrong here, but after the whole "Doomsday killing Superman" about a decade ago in the comic didnt the man of steels powers get downsized in relation to what they had been in the DC universe???
Looking forward to the game either way, November is pretty close!
OK, now you dedicated DC fans correct me if I am wrong here, but after the whole "Doomsday killing Superman" about a decade ago in the comic didnt the man of steels powers get downsized in relation to what they had been in the DC universe???
Looking forward to the game either way, November is pretty close!
Yes, you're talking about the modern-era, or "post-crisis" Superman. After the efforts of several different versions of Earths Supermen/Boys thwarted the efforts of the Anti-Monitor (In "Crisis on Infinite Earths") and later Superboy-Prime (In Infinite Crisis) to destroy the multiverse, and all the known realities were reduced to 52. Well, you can read all about it here:
EDIT: I should note, though, that the Death of Superman story was actually post-crisis as well. The Superman that lost to Doomsday was already the toned-down Superman.
if they made superman invincible like he was in the comics he would be....invincible. i don't think that would work in a MMORPG. they had to nerf him.
So let me get this straight. Superman has been around for 72 years. His powers have never been a problem in DC Universe comics for all these years. In fact clever writers have come up with scenarios where even non-powered heroes and villains have found a way to defeat Superman. But now you are telling us that because they are making a DC Universe online game they have to completely change a 72 year old character to fit their poorly designed piece of fluff? And you are OK with that!? F*ck that! If they can't be bothered to be faithful to the source material they are drawing their ideas from they don't deserve to use that source material. What a bunch of moronic hacks.
Actually his "overpoweredness" had been a problem for decades for DC writers because it's hard to keep someone who is invincible and all powerful interesting for 72 years(they pretty much exhausted all the Kryptonite angles in the first few years).Superman has bene "nerfed" as you put it many times in the comics because sales of those comic book were flagging.
Didn't I read in an interview with Jim Lee that DCUO is actually set on/in Earth/Universe 16, because it was largely untapped by the comic's canon? In this universe everyone was the "most" that people thought of them to be, explaining for example why Batman is Bruce and not Dick, etc, etc (etc, etc... I felt the added etc's were needed as that is one example of very, very many). Now I don't normally like to speculate on plots that have yet to be fully fleshed out, but I have two theories to put out there based on this.
The first is that perhaps in Universe 16 (and as a way to include Superman into as much as the game experience as possible) he (and other characters) are not quite as "Super" as he is portrayed in the comics. As someone already pointed out, while it would be amusing for missions to go: "K.O 10 minions and apprehend Deathstroke - *Push X to call Superman* - Kick back for a few seconds - Superman wins, here's some XP for your work. Well done, hero" - it doesn't quite fit the "video game" paradigm. It then just becomes and interactive comic.
However, I'm not convinced about this theory, even if it is my own. While it would also explain why Black Adam, if indeed he is a Villain in this Universe, doesn't just go around popping out new hero's eyes through the backs of their heads like he did to Psycho Pirate in Infinite Crisis: the blur trailer kind of destroys this theory. I don't know about you guys but neither Supes or Adam strike me as "weaker" in that video - future boyscout or not. You can't make him that powerful in that version of the future and base the present day version on a much weaker model.
So that leaves theory two, which is one a few of you have already mentioned, that perhaps our heroes can be just as powerful as Superman eventually. On the one hand this isn't such a bad idea, not only from a gaming point of view but from a superhero fan view too. Why not be able to create a character that can become as strong as the iconics? There is no rule that says you can't from a canonical stand point. My only worry is that, if like I'm sure man of you do, you want Batman to be your mentor, how do you balance that against someone who has the power of say Black Adam (yes I know, I have a bit of a bias for him) from a PvP standpoint? Better yet, how can a Joker-esq character stand up to a Superman-esq creation? I mean it makes sense in the comics because the answer there is, if the Joker came up against Superman, he would escape, that is what he is good at. But how do you translate that to a PvP situation where the j0kz0rz physically has to win against SuperboyPrime23?
I'll be interested to see what they come up with. Personally i'm still holding out for a "Call Superman" function for quests, just to see how long it would take to tick him off, asking him to do my tedious tasks while I watch smallville. That would be a fun game.... right?
Edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying that the only outcome of a Joker/Superman encounter would be that the Joker would escape, that doesn't do either character justice. What I mean to say is that the Joker can "best" Superman in many ways, and Superman can "best" Joker in even more ways. But, in a straight fight where one has to win against the other, the only way I can see Joker winning involves kryptonite. I realise this has gone off on a longer tangent than the original query merited, but the more I think about it, the more I don't see how they could include characters like Superman and not nerf them before they even exist.
i figure superman is way out of any mmorpg league.
I'd rather him be a deus ex machina here as well.
Or, since at least once i've heard he gives friends a special signaller when they need help. Maybe in some missions, as a reward you get a superman signal, and for 1 minutes he shows up and does his thing then flies off to save some other city after that.
i figure superman is way out of any mmorpg league.
I'd rather him be a deus ex machina here as well.
Or, since at least once i've heard he gives friends a special signaller when they need help. Maybe in some missions, as a reward you get a superman signal, and for 1 minutes he shows up and does his thing then flies off to save some other city after that.
Exactly, he should be the one to scare off the boss you just beat so that he can return another day. Having him follow you around for a whole mission defeats the purpose of it all, as you might as well be preparing margaritas from when he wipes up everything without breaking any sweat.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Thats one reason i never really like Superman or DC for that matter. The Marvel version of Superman is the Sentry but to tame him a bit instead of kryptonite they made him bat shit insane and it works better. Despite my Marvel preference ima still play DCUO thou.
Note, I'm jumping in here purely as a geek not as someone from the site...
But, to play devil's advocate, Superman pretty much breaks every superhero rule too. He's tough to balance and I suspect this may be one thing they pretty much cannot get right.
I've asked them exactly this question before and got that same answer. My guess is there will be more kryptonite situations than Smallville But who knows.
Regardless, even if people do just have to accept that Superman is no cooler than the other superheroes, it shouldn't matter much since his rules don't even apply to them obviously. For example, the "inspired by" function they have for people who want to base themselves around a certain guy are tough with Superman too. I never really got a full answer since he's basically just all of them combined. I suspect they're just going to have to dodge around this a lot to make a proper game.
I never understood why someone didnt just fashion a bullet out of Kryptonite and shoot him in the heart years ago. I guess in Luthors future he finnaly did it, ( spearhead, not bullet) but still. Took long enough.
You're forgetting Superman's intro line back to his earliest days was "faster than a speeding bullet." Unless Kryptonite is more aerodynamic, that includes a kryptonite bullet.
Actually, he was shot with a kryptonite bullet ages ago, IIRC Dr Hamilton at Star labs removed it. He then gave it to Batman, Its referenced in the Dark Knight book as well. I think it happened late 80's early 90's...
I think Superman has the worse weakness of any superhero, just make a Kryptonite grenade, throw it at him, see it explode in his face and he's pretty much dead.
That's what you get for being greedy with super powers.
People, most of you are missing one major point. Most any hero/villain can defeat any other hero/villain if the writer of that particular issue/series deams it necessary. In the comics I've read it has always gone back and forth, so why is this game really that much different.
In the Green Lantern comics it has been stated numerous times that the rings are the most powerful weapon in the universe and there has been occassions where a GL has mopped the floor with Superman. Add to that Batman doesn't like Hal Jordan because Has Jordan is the ONE man that isn't buying into the one thing Batman is selling, FEAR. Hal fears nothing.
It's all relevant, it always has been and most likely always will be. There's no end all be all in comics.
Comments
You're forgetting Superman's intro line back to his earliest days was "faster than a speeding bullet." Unless Kryptonite is more aerodynamic, that includes a kryptonite bullet.
Create a plot device that explains that Lois Lane was infected by a magical disease that saps her life force to the point where she's comatose and could potentially die from until Zatanna forges a magical ring that Supes has to wear that takes half his solar absorbing ability and converts it to lifeforce energy needed to keep Lois alive (instead of using it to keep himself fully charged). Thus his weaken state (limited ability of absorbing solar energy) and frequent absences (to find a cure).
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Yeah!
And then no one will play the game! Just like SWG!
No one likes Alpha classes. No one likes feeling inferior to another player, who might actually have less skill than them. It's just terrible game design to purposefully create an unbalanced class atmosphere.
Maybe the sun is now orange instead of yellow.
if they made superman invincible like he was in the comics he would be....invincible. i don't think that would work in a MMORPG. they had to nerf him.
I believe they will be explaining a lot of these things with the storyline, same way they'll be explaining the influx of superheros.
First of all, the "Modern-Era" Superman is by design much weaker than other incarnations of him. He has only recently been able to take extended space trips again, and moving planets etc is out of the question.
That aside, the story for the game is that Brainiac was siphoning super-powers, including those of Superman, Captain Marvel, Black Adam, and other "REALLY powerful guys." Luthor steals these and distributes them over the current world. That means people "the players" may even be getting portions of Supermans own power. They (after much training) will be on even footing with the iconic heroes. The Devs have said as much. You will be mentored by a hero of your choice, but that doesnt imply you are weaker. Just less experienced. As you defeat some of their lesser enemies, they will give you more trust, until eventually you help them defeat a major foe. After that, they see you as an equal, and just check in with you from time to time. You will be powerful enough to fight their major foes...and for Lex Luthors proteges, that includes Superman. At least, thats sort of the gist of what the Devs have been saying.
Although I appreciate your passion to stick to the classic "well thought out" story - get real. Superman has every power in the book. He talks like a retard. ...and he's not even human. What a great "person" I can really relate to. It's about time they made him into something. Maybe they'll recognize him as the crappy McCrappy-pants he actually is.
One love.
OK, now you dedicated DC fans correct me if I am wrong here, but after the whole "Doomsday killing Superman" about a decade ago in the comic didnt the man of steels powers get downsized in relation to what they had been in the DC universe???
Looking forward to the game either way, November is pretty close!
Yes, you're talking about the modern-era, or "post-crisis" Superman. After the efforts of several different versions of Earths Supermen/Boys thwarted the efforts of the Anti-Monitor (In "Crisis on Infinite Earths") and later Superboy-Prime (In Infinite Crisis) to destroy the multiverse, and all the known realities were reduced to 52. Well, you can read all about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_and_abilities_of_Superman
EDIT: I should note, though, that the Death of Superman story was actually post-crisis as well. The Superman that lost to Doomsday was already the toned-down Superman.
Actually his "overpoweredness" had been a problem for decades for DC writers because it's hard to keep someone who is invincible and all powerful interesting for 72 years(they pretty much exhausted all the Kryptonite angles in the first few years).Superman has bene "nerfed" as you put it many times in the comics because sales of those comic book were flagging.
Didn't I read in an interview with Jim Lee that DCUO is actually set on/in Earth/Universe 16, because it was largely untapped by the comic's canon? In this universe everyone was the "most" that people thought of them to be, explaining for example why Batman is Bruce and not Dick, etc, etc (etc, etc... I felt the added etc's were needed as that is one example of very, very many). Now I don't normally like to speculate on plots that have yet to be fully fleshed out, but I have two theories to put out there based on this.
The first is that perhaps in Universe 16 (and as a way to include Superman into as much as the game experience as possible) he (and other characters) are not quite as "Super" as he is portrayed in the comics. As someone already pointed out, while it would be amusing for missions to go: "K.O 10 minions and apprehend Deathstroke - *Push X to call Superman* - Kick back for a few seconds - Superman wins, here's some XP for your work. Well done, hero" - it doesn't quite fit the "video game" paradigm. It then just becomes and interactive comic.
However, I'm not convinced about this theory, even if it is my own. While it would also explain why Black Adam, if indeed he is a Villain in this Universe, doesn't just go around popping out new hero's eyes through the backs of their heads like he did to Psycho Pirate in Infinite Crisis: the blur trailer kind of destroys this theory. I don't know about you guys but neither Supes or Adam strike me as "weaker" in that video - future boyscout or not. You can't make him that powerful in that version of the future and base the present day version on a much weaker model.
So that leaves theory two, which is one a few of you have already mentioned, that perhaps our heroes can be just as powerful as Superman eventually. On the one hand this isn't such a bad idea, not only from a gaming point of view but from a superhero fan view too. Why not be able to create a character that can become as strong as the iconics? There is no rule that says you can't from a canonical stand point. My only worry is that, if like I'm sure man of you do, you want Batman to be your mentor, how do you balance that against someone who has the power of say Black Adam (yes I know, I have a bit of a bias for him) from a PvP standpoint? Better yet, how can a Joker-esq character stand up to a Superman-esq creation? I mean it makes sense in the comics because the answer there is, if the Joker came up against Superman, he would escape, that is what he is good at. But how do you translate that to a PvP situation where the j0kz0rz physically has to win against SuperboyPrime23?
I'll be interested to see what they come up with. Personally i'm still holding out for a "Call Superman" function for quests, just to see how long it would take to tick him off, asking him to do my tedious tasks while I watch smallville. That would be a fun game.... right?
Edit: just to clarify, I'm not saying that the only outcome of a Joker/Superman encounter would be that the Joker would escape, that doesn't do either character justice. What I mean to say is that the Joker can "best" Superman in many ways, and Superman can "best" Joker in even more ways. But, in a straight fight where one has to win against the other, the only way I can see Joker winning involves kryptonite. I realise this has gone off on a longer tangent than the original query merited, but the more I think about it, the more I don't see how they could include characters like Superman and not nerf them before they even exist.
i figure superman is way out of any mmorpg league.
I'd rather him be a deus ex machina here as well.
Or, since at least once i've heard he gives friends a special signaller when they need help. Maybe in some missions, as a reward you get a superman signal, and for 1 minutes he shows up and does his thing then flies off to save some other city after that.
Exactly, he should be the one to scare off the boss you just beat so that he can return another day. Having him follow you around for a whole mission defeats the purpose of it all, as you might as well be preparing margaritas from when he wipes up everything without breaking any sweat.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Superman's strength has always varied in comics between godmode to not very strong.
Personally I'm glad they didn't choose godmode superman to be in this game. But of course thats because I'm most likely going to be a villain.
I also think that godmode superman is boring. It's more exciting and suspenseful knowing that he might not be able to save the day.
Thats one reason i never really like Superman or DC for that matter. The Marvel version of Superman is the Sentry but to tame him a bit instead of kryptonite they made him bat shit insane and it works better. Despite my Marvel preference ima still play DCUO thou.
playing:DCUO,GW2,WoW
played:SWG,LotRO,CoH,GW,FF14,ESO,AlbionOnline
Actually, he was shot with a kryptonite bullet ages ago, IIRC Dr Hamilton at Star labs removed it. He then gave it to Batman, Its referenced in the Dark Knight book as well. I think it happened late 80's early 90's...
I think Superman has the worse weakness of any superhero, just make a Kryptonite grenade, throw it at him, see it explode in his face and he's pretty much dead.
That's what you get for being greedy with super powers.
People, most of you are missing one major point. Most any hero/villain can defeat any other hero/villain if the writer of that particular issue/series deams it necessary. In the comics I've read it has always gone back and forth, so why is this game really that much different.
In the Green Lantern comics it has been stated numerous times that the rings are the most powerful weapon in the universe and there has been occassions where a GL has mopped the floor with Superman. Add to that Batman doesn't like Hal Jordan because Has Jordan is the ONE man that isn't buying into the one thing Batman is selling, FEAR. Hal fears nothing.
It's all relevant, it always has been and most likely always will be. There's no end all be all in comics.
Your fail comment, failed.