In-game items for real money: Why is this even a full-time profession?

Lunitari · March 2005

Over the years, I have always been wondering why people can tolerate online games long enough to sell in-game items for real money, lol.

It has morphed from small time sellers making some bucks on the side by selling in-game cash for real cash(and accounts with castles and other cool stuff) in UO, to companies like IGE who are successful enough to take out full page color ads in computer gaming mags on a regular basis and cover a wide variety of the more popular games out there.

Aside from the obvious issue of people being too lazy to earn the item or money on their own, I have always wondered about the legal issues surrounding the sale of in-game items and money for real money, and more so, of accounts.

I am not a lawyer, I consider myself an informed consumer...I see the EULA's for the games I play, which seem to state in not exactly clear english, but clear enough legal language, that you aren't allowed to sell accounts or the "intellectual property" of certain gaming companies. Yes I know there are a few games out there that actually allow this stuff, and I'm fine with that, obviously I'm not talking about them.

Is it just that this practice is so widespread nowadays that gaming companies don't even really enforce their own policies? Is it that they are worried about offending or alienating their fanbase? I am really wondering here.

If anyone has any links to articles that may have been written concerning this issue, please post them because I am very interested in figuring out this little mystery.

On a side rant, I see many of these things for sale, with a "legal disclaimer" if you will at the bottom that says you are paying for the "effort", not the actual item. Who the hell did the legal research that that is any more legal than selling the actual item?

Cenn · March 2005

i too hate this farming business..

But.

The virtual item is the property of the game company - it exists solely on their servers.

The player has access to that item - they dont own the item - hence cannot really sell that item.

It takes time to "earn" access to in game items.

The time/effort is owned by the player.

The players are selling their "access rights" to the virtual objects.

Basically, if the game company decides to delete the object, there is nothing you can do about it. The closest i can think of is a pay-per-view or cable access. You could (theoretically) charge someone the right to come over to your place to watch a football match on your TV... You are not charging them for the actual game, but for the right to be in your house at the same time...

Elnator · March 2005

As long as you word the sale right it's perfectly legal.

You aren't selling the items, you're selling the time/effort it took you to get the items. Basically you're charging for your service, not the item.

Not saying I like it, but that's the facts.

It's perfectly legal and since the world abounds with utterly lazy individuals who will spend, literally, thousands of dollars to get what they want without having to earn it the businesses and players who do this will continue to thrive.

Capitolism at it's finest

Owyn · March 2005

It's legal, but it still goes against the obvious intent of the rules of the game. It's a loophole that allows the legality of an activity that is supposed to be against the rules.

Legal or not, it's still cheating. =/

Jorev · March 2005

If buying coin or items from strangers for real money is cheating, because it supposedly gives some players an advantage over others, then receiving items and coin from friends that you didn't earn or trade market value for, is equally cheating. Pure logic.

So remember, don't give or receive any gifts from friends or guildmates without trading market value for said gifts or you are cheating.

MisfitZ · March 2005

Jorev, there's a world of difference between casually helping out a friend with the resources you currently have, and using a third-party programs to run multiple accounts in order to "farm" an area for real-world finacial gain.

The former only has an impact on the two people involved. The latter impacts anyone who comes through that area.

Also, when someone is using a single computer to run 6, 8, or 10 accounts on the game, all of which are high-level characters, and runs them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, they gain an immeasurable advantage over real players. Even a hardcore player, putting in 6+ hours a day can't even come close to competing with bot-farmers.

The bot-farmers ruin the economy by introducing floods of cash, which, without their help, would have taken months or even years to naturally work it's way into the player economy.

So, this isn't about someone tweaking out their character for their own personal enjoyment. This is about ruining the game for other people who have payed for it. This is, in effect, robbing them of the total value of their purchase.

Also, that excuse, where the bot-farmers claim they are "selling the time it takes to earn an item, not the item itself" is pure bullshit. If you spend long hours creating a work of art, you sell that work of art, not your time. The object itself is the value. Without it, your time is of no value.

If you sell an object you recovered from the bottom of the sea in international waters, are you selling your time? No. Absolutely not. If you were, you would have a record of employment. Either as a direct employee, or as a sub-contractor.

Anyways, the point is, that excuse is a crock of shit, and we know it, and the bot-farmers know it, and the game developers know it. In order to cover that angle, however, all they need to include in the EULA is a clause that specifies "it is against the TOS to employ a person or persons to play the game for you" or something to that effect.

Either that, or firebomb IGE's headquarters.

Owyn · March 2005

Actually, if I were a dev... I'd simply log in to IGE and sell them some coin. Then I'd track that coin. I have to give it to someone ingame to get paid, of course. So there is one banned account. However, that's probably a front, and not their "bank account" account; so I'd track any large transactions that character made for a bit.

Anyone who gave that character large sums of money (they require 300 gold+, in WOW, for instance) would be added to my "ban shortly" list. And anyone who that character in turn gave large sums of money to would likewise be added. Eventually, I'd find their banking accounts, and add those to the ban list too.

Then in one fell swoop, ban all the associated accounts. In addition, make it front page news on my site - announce to all players the successful sting operation, and how X number of cheaters were caught and banned in the sweep.

Oh yeah - IGE would not be fond of me as a developer, I assure you.

Elnator · March 2005

Hate to break this to you but most folks who use multiple accounts don't use 3rd party software.

My brother (god only knows why) has 5 accounts and 3 systems and typically runs 3-5 characters on them at a time in his own little group. He doesn't E-Bay but that's how people who DO do it. No 3rd party software required, just a few old PC's that you run your buf/heal/nuke bots on.

Personally I only ever have 1 account in a game. The only time I ever had 2 was in EQ when my wife wanted to play with me (didn't last long). When she quit I sold the account.

Oh wait, that makes me a CHEATER. Cuz I sold a level 55 Shaman and 63 Necro! OMG!

Jorev · March 2005

Big difference between using bots and macros etc to farm, which is cheating, and 1 person playing 1 character and selling what they farm.

If I play the game honestly, using 1 character and no bots or macros etc to farm with, then it's ok to sell anything I earn.

The concept of people buying or being given items they didn't earn themselves is the same, so if you call 1 act cheating, then logically they both are.

Elnator · March 2005

I agree, however, it's not cheating. There is nothing that says 1 person can't have multiple accounts. And there's no rule against 'farming' either.

Like I said, nobody I know does it. But those who do it are paying more than you to do what they are so..... hard to tell em to stop.

Owyn · March 2005

Originally posted by Jorev
Big difference between using bots and macros etc to farm, which is cheating, and 1 person playing 1 character and selling what they farm.
If I play the game honestly, using 1 character and no bots or macros etc to farm with, then it's ok to sell anything I earn.

I disagree.

In most games, the EULA or TOS strictly forbids the buying or selling of ingame goods.
Those are the rules of the game. You agree to follow those rules when you play the game and click "I Agree".
People who break the rules of a game are...cheaters.
Therefore people who break the EULA/TOS of an MMO are cheaters, to include those who buy/sell ingame items and coin in games that forbids this activity.

It's like this: if you are buying ingame items, you are using cash to acquire an advantage. That'd be OK with me, mind you - if it was within the rules of the game to do so. Because it's against the rules, that means that this is an advantage that only unethical people have. Those who follow the rules of the game cannot buy items, and are therefore at a disadvantage compared to those players who break the rules. To me, that's a clearcut case of cheaters breaking the rules to get a leg up over honest people who don't cheat.

Jorev · April 2005

So you support illegal confidentiality agreements that some corporations force their employees to sign?

I suppose you would side with the people who say, hey if you're a moral person and know you would become a whistleblower and report illegal activities a company you work for participated in, then don't take a job with one that requires confidentiality agreements.

What rubbish.

EULA's regarding selling of so called intellectual property of virtual items and accounts, have yet to be supported in a court of law. The only legal case coming close to this, was one where a farming outfit sued a game company for banning their accounts, and the court ruled in favor of the gaming company to be able to do so, but in no way did it determine wether selling virtual items was legal or illegal.

Any company can make you sign a EULA or confidentiality agreement, but just because you do, doesn't make it legal or bind you to them. The courts have ruled that agreements that are deemed illegal to begin with, because they violate freedom of speech and personal rights and public safety etc., are considered null and void.

Remember the film, The Insider, based on a true story, about the tobacco company employee who became a whistleblower even though he signed a confidentiality agreement. That agreement was ruled to be an illegal contract, regardless of the fact that he signed it.

Cenn · April 2005

Jorev - thats a dangerous thing your saying...

In the case of the "insider" - the NDA was considered illegal because it was to cover up illegal activities. An NDA itself it very very legal. Pretty much the only way any software company can work with subcontractors is to use NDAs, or you'd be giving away your source code for free...

How about all those people who work with private information (like bankers, doctors etc) - they have to agree to a NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) to even work.

An NDA is a legally binding document - if its signed in person... clicking "i agree" is on more shaky ground.

Jorev · April 2005

I only use that situation as an example, because so many people keep implying that EULA's are legally binding, especially since you make the choice to click on them.

The fact remains, that EULA's outlawing of selling virtual items has not been tested in the courts yet, and just because a game company claims ownership of said virtual items, doesn't make it so.

Enigma · April 2005

some interesting reading:

http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6101604.html

Owyn · April 2005

Of particular note from the Gamespot article:

Turbine Entertainment executive producer Jessica Mulligan, a respected contributor to the MMORPG genre who spent years on the Ultima Online team (and did a stint at Themis before her current role at Turbine), referred to a court case in Asia. "In the Chinese case," Mulligan says, "a player sued because someone hacked the server of an MMOG and stole his characters gear. The court ruled that the company was negligent in securing the server and found for the player." But she also refers to a stateside case: "In the US, Black Snow Interactive, a virtual game property broker that was doing a brisk business in Dark Age of Camelot, sued the developer and publisher, Mythic Entertainment, when Mythic shut down their accounts."
The victory in that case, Mulligan explains, was for Mythic, which essentially received judicial notice that the End User License Agreement for Camelot was valid, including the sections regarding Mythic's retaining ownership of all in-game assets and only licensing their use to the player--and forbidding buying and selling of in-game items. "Black Snows management disappeared after that and [the business] closed down."
Mulligan concluded that the two cases "have more than one facet, [and that the issue] is going to have to be settled in each locality." Mulligan foresees the publisher's End User License Agreement holding sway. "I suspect that in the US, at least, the EULAs will continue to be the guiding force and every one of [the publishers] retain ownership of the assets, with the developer and/or publisher licensing the software to the players for use in the game."

Note where it says that Mythic received judicial notice that the EULA was valid, including sections regarding Mythic's ownership of ingame property and resale of those items.

Anyway, if you read my posts, my primary arguement is less about the legality of these sales, and more about the fairness and ethics of it. As I've maintained before - it's against the rules of the game, so it's cheating. Cheating is bad. In general, people who don't cheat don't like playing with cheaters.

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In-game items for real money: Why is this even a full-time profession?

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