I know this is a little scewed as the population in reference is not a sampling from the entire population of humanity, but I found this kind of sad none the less.
I've never thought that much of the brain power of the human species in modern times anyways but this kind of got to me when it rolled around in my head the other day. I was playing wow, doing several group activities with randoms... PVP, dungeons, etc, and I got to thinking about how bad people are at this game.
Now I would say never in my time of wow has tanking, healing, or dps'ing been even a slightly difficult task short of gear not being up to par. All that this game requires is a very simple sequence of just a few buttons, not even pressed quickly, and you dont even have to memorize, there are pictures. Reactionary times arent very fast, healing is akin to wack'a'mole, but slower, etc. Then you look at PVP, one or two tactics are the only ones that are ever successful in a BG, and they are ALWAYS successful.
Then you look at what is required to fail in this game, not hitting a VERY simple sequence of buttons, not being able to figure out to cleanse a poison for example, nothing mentally difficult about that "damage is bad, poison causes damage, this spell stops poison, so use this spell" We can train simple animals to be that smart (did it with rats and an electric floor) . What about PVP, people that will run alone into a group of 5 people OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again, somehow thinking this will be successful, etc. etc..
Nothing about this game requires any more brain power than simply observing it and reacting with the most simplistic amount of thought and action, yet the majority of people that play this game are absolutely, completely, and ridiculously AWFUL at the game.
Then I look at other MMO's, now I know some of them are a little more complex than WOW, but most of the people are still terrible at those, and equally terrible in the MMO's that are equally simple as wow.
So now I really wonder just HOW stupid is the human race? I mean, this is just sad........
To add.... yes i realize that I just made a post slamming the intelligence of people using terrible english and what not. Its not that the stuff escapes me, its that I dont care. The point of communication is to convey a message.... not be scrutinized for technical correctness.
Human race? We keep making the same mistakes all throughout history. We're the only living creatures on this planet that organizes and sets out to destroy each other on a massive scale. That's how stupid we are.
/end depressing note
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
So now I really wonder just HOW stupid is the human race? I mean, this is just sad........
It doesn't mean this relates to intelligence in any way.
Some people play MMO very casually, even if they play a lot. There's sometimes just no willingness to learn all the mechanics, they are careless and don't take the game very serious.
A lot of moms and older generation players play MMO too now, for many an MMO is their first game ever. Many watch TV / read while playing.
There are so many factors, it's hard to relate intelligence to MMO competence.
There are people who can't drive at all, still they do it almost daily, doesn't mean they're stupid does it. They just lack willingness to learn it, are too busy, don't care, or never learned the right way to drive / park. Not everything is a sign of intelligence.
So now I really wonder just HOW stupid is the human race? I mean, this is just sad........
It doesn't mean this relates to intelligence in any way.
Some people play MMO very casually, even if they play a lot. There's sometimes just no willingness to learn all the mechanics, they are careless and don't take the game very serious.
A lot of moms and older generation players play MMO too now, for many an MMO is their first game ever. Many watch TV / read while playing.
There are so many factors, it's hard to relate intelligence to MMO competence.
There are people who can't drive at all, still they do it almost daily, doesn't mean they're stupid does it. They just lack willingness to learn it, are too busy, don't care, or never learned the right way to drive / park. Not everything is a sign of intelligence.
Just gonna quote this for truth. Just because someone plays an MMORPG, but doesn't invest the time or effort to be "good" at it (no matter how minimal) it doesn't necessarily mean they are stupid in general as people at all. Even if it's true for the majority of people who are bad at MMORPGs it's still no reason to go around saying people are stupid because they don't play a game efficiently, and act like you are so much smarter than the average person based on your video game performance.
In my WoW career I met casual gamers who could be considered terrible, but I played with them because they were so entertaining and fun to be around, and several of them that I still talk to this day are very smart in real life, a couple of them with very high paying jobs (and not saying that a high paying job automatically = intelligence, but these particular jobs do).
Now I agree humanity has done plenty of stupid things, and we continue to do stupid things, but there are plenty of things weighted against that, that are done by people all around the world every day to try and progress and help humanity. Maybe I'm just too optimistic.
-------------------------- Playing: FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS My Rig: GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
It may actually be more difficult than you think. Numerous recent studies (soory too lazy to track em down) show the difficulty the human brain has with multitasking (and of course some do it better than others). Many-most car acciendts (pre cell phone era) happened when folks where talking and driving. Active languge processing and output takes a big toll on active human memory (think of it like RAM for the brain). In an MMO you are moving your character, pressing keys and often times either reading and writing text or speaking/listening or all of those things. Add to this the possibility of background noise /interruption going on in the real world and it's not suprising that some people simply cannot function well in MMOs. Now this is not to say that on an anicdotal level I don't agree with the OP to some extent but playing an MMo is much more complex than a normal video game due to the multi-tasking.
while I agree that it's more complex than other tasks in life, it's still not difficult. And while yes, my post oversimplified, there was a purpose to this. I can make breathing sound more difficult than it really is by analyzing every aspect of it as well, but there is not point because breathing isn't difficult.
Actually there's a good deal of psycholingustic research out there which shows how taxing real time language is on the human brain. Add the possibility of two different modes written/spoken and both productive and receptive language and it is quite a bit. Also spatial cognition and hand-eye coord could be contributing factors. Now what would be interesting would be to collect data on MMO players with language and eye-tracking and heck throw in an electroencephlogram for fun and see which factors contribute most to negative performance. Though considering how may people are "successful" for the most part in playing MMOs, yeah you could still argue that it's not that hard for many folks. Real time problem solving and social skills when trouble happens or when one player messes up are also possible factors. One thing I might argue with WoW in particular though would be that due to the new dungeon match system less and less communication takes place in the game, making it less tasking, however more difficult when a bad pull happens. Then again without any data here just kinda guessing
I hope you don't think that I'm saying the process involved isn't extremely complex. I completely agree that it is. I'm just saying that compared to what my brain is capable of doing the process of being successful in MMO's on the whole is extremely simple.
I would like to see a study done on just how many people are successful at these things and the primary factors that lead to them failing. Then analysis of what factors lead to failure and why. Then I would like the same study to be replicated but with all outside factors eliminated to the best of testing ability. Then a comparison of the data to be done.
So, all throughout this post after your original post, you kept arguing that you weren't saying you were smarter than everyone else, yet you turn around and say something asinine like that. This is the stupidest thread I've ever seen. Being good at WoW doesn't prove anything as far as intelligence is concerned. For whatever reasons, some people just aren't good at certain games, be it fighting, sports, etc. But that doesn't mean they SHOULDN'T play them.
However, intelligence can be measured in this way though: If you want to step back and take ANYTHING away from how most people act/play in WoW (or any other online game for that matter), just take into consideration and count how many screwed up sentences, misspelled words and all around poor use of the english language is present.
i.e. Shud (Should), wut (what), there (when they mean "they're") etc. you get the idea.
What this shows is how either uneducated that the young population is of the 90's and 00's are or that they just don't care enough about these kinds of things anymore. At times I actually find myself annoyed by it, and I'm not sure why. I don't ever bash anyone in-game for it, I just quietly grumble to myself, and no I'm not a spelling Nazi that you'll see on there, I keep my comments to myself. I guess I'm just an "old man", but I just wonder what's so hard about spelling out simple words like that correctly? Is it that important to speak in "Txt language" or "leet speak"?
I think that most likely at least half those people aren't really stupid as you describe but are LAZY. Too lazy to research their class, too lazy to research boss fights, generally want to be carried, and/or are too bored to try hard all the time but they are still addicted to the game. And you could attribute such laziness to the overall grind that MMOs present. Just a theory.
I believe this thread is going off topic. The original intent was to discuss human stupidity, not the complexity of WoW. The OP just brought in WoW as an example.
@Aeroangel: You failed pretty hard right there. A prime example showcasing just how stupid the majority of the human race is. What the OP was saying about his brain was a GENERAL statement about the HUMAN brain. The human brain can make you breathe, keep your heart pumping, register sounds, lights, aromas, touch, and interpret all of those senses WITHOUT YOU EVEN HAVING TO THINK ABOUT THEM. After that, you can add in other stuff that you DO think about. That is only part of the potential of the human brain. You need to realize yours.
The main thing that [intelligent] people consider 'intelligence' in an MMO is common sense. No [intelligent] player will call someone else stupid for not having a particular sequence/instance memorized. However, let's say you are the only healer. Your tank is fighting something and needs heals. There happens to be an AFK DPS that is low on health as well.
Who are you supposed to heal? It's not a difficult decision. If you heal the tank, good job! If you chose the DPS, you're either incredibly stupid or just being an asshole.
Though, I suppose that does divide the 'stupid' people into two parts-retards and assholes. Again, you're not 'stupid' for not knowing an instance; you're merely uninformed.
I know this is a little scewed as the population in reference is not a sampling from the entire population of humanity, but I found this kind of sad none the less.
I've never thought that much of the brain power of the human species in modern times anyways but this kind of got to me when it rolled around in my head the other day. I was playing wow, doing several group activities with randoms... PVP, dungeons, etc, and I got to thinking about how bad people are at this game.
Now I would say never in my time of wow has tanking, healing, or dps'ing been even a slightly difficult task short of gear not being up to par. All that this game requires is a very simple sequence of just a few buttons, not even pressed quickly, and you dont even have to memorize, there are pictures. Reactionary times arent very fast, healing is akin to wack'a'mole, but slower, etc. Then you look at PVP, one or two tactics are the only ones that are ever successful in a BG, and they are ALWAYS successful.
Then you look at what is required to fail in this game, not hitting a VERY simple sequence of buttons, not being able to figure out to cleanse a poison for example, nothing mentally difficult about that "damage is bad, poison causes damage, this spell stops poison, so use this spell" We can train simple animals to be that smart (did it with rats and an electric floor) . What about PVP, people that will run alone into a group of 5 people OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again, somehow thinking this will be successful, etc. etc..
Nothing about this game requires any more brain power than simply observing it and reacting with the most simplistic amount of thought and action, yet the majority of people that play this game are absolutely, completely, and ridiculously AWFUL at the game.
Then I look at other MMO's, now I know some of them are a little more complex than WOW, but most of the people are still terrible at those, and equally terrible in the MMO's that are equally simple as wow.
So now I really wonder just HOW stupid is the human race? I mean, this is just sad........
To add.... yes i realize that I just made a post slamming the intelligence of people using terrible english and what not. Its not that the stuff escapes me, its that I dont care. The point of communication is to convey a message.... not be scrutinized for technical correctness.
You confuse lack of caring with intelligence. There are a lot of people (and you seem to be one of them) who take MMOs very serious. They always need to win/do well, otherwise they are angry. They also tend to verbally abuse other people in the game for not caring as much as they do.
A lot of people play MMOs to unwind and relax. They don't care if they win the BG, and they don't want some obnoxious (often times kid) yelling at how they need to listen to them and do what they say (a sure fire way to get people to NOT do what you want). They just want to get in there and hit some bad guys, the outcome does not matter to them.
I can be very good at all video games when I want, both those that involve skill and those that don't. Sometimes however I just don't care, or desire, to make sure I'm doing everything exactly right. A good example is the couple of times I tried WoW again. The only reason I would retry wow is because of the fun I had in higher level BGs (the rest of the game, and the lower level bgs is just plain terrible, seriously). So on my way up in levels to get to those higher level BGs, I did not care how the lower level ones went, I was just in there to grind out honor/currency/xp, I didn't care if we won or not. Everytime there would be some guy who thought he was god's gift to WoW and would try to tell everyone what to do, everytime people would get annoyed and make a point of not doing what he wanted, everytime he would cry and bitch about it. It's a game, and a lot of people care about it exactly that much. They don't care at all how well they do.
I know this is a little scewed as the population in reference is not a sampling from the entire population of humanity, but I found this kind of sad none the less.
I've never thought that much of the brain power of the human species in modern times anyways but this kind of got to me when it rolled around in my head the other day. I was playing wow, doing several group activities with randoms... PVP, dungeons, etc, and I got to thinking about how bad people are at this game.
Now I would say never in my time of wow has tanking, healing, or dps'ing been even a slightly difficult task short of gear not being up to par. All that this game requires is a very simple sequence of just a few buttons, not even pressed quickly, and you dont even have to memorize, there are pictures. Reactionary times arent very fast, healing is akin to wack'a'mole, but slower, etc. Then you look at PVP, one or two tactics are the only ones that are ever successful in a BG, and they are ALWAYS successful.
Then you look at what is required to fail in this game, not hitting a VERY simple sequence of buttons, not being able to figure out to cleanse a poison for example, nothing mentally difficult about that "damage is bad, poison causes damage, this spell stops poison, so use this spell" We can train simple animals to be that smart (did it with rats and an electric floor) . What about PVP, people that will run alone into a group of 5 people OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again, somehow thinking this will be successful, etc. etc..
Nothing about this game requires any more brain power than simply observing it and reacting with the most simplistic amount of thought and action, yet the majority of people that play this game are absolutely, completely, and ridiculously AWFUL at the game.
Then I look at other MMO's, now I know some of them are a little more complex than WOW, but most of the people are still terrible at those, and equally terrible in the MMO's that are equally simple as wow.
So now I really wonder just HOW stupid is the human race? I mean, this is just sad........
To add.... yes i realize that I just made a post slamming the intelligence of people using terrible english and what not. Its not that the stuff escapes me, its that I dont care. The point of communication is to convey a message.... not be scrutinized for technical correctness.
You confuse lack of caring with intelligence. There are a lot of people (and you seem to be one of them) who take MMOs very serious. They always need to win/do well, otherwise they are angry. They also tend to verbally abuse other people in the game for not caring as much as they do.
A lot of people play MMOs to unwind and relax. They don't care if they win the BG, and they don't want some obnoxious (often times kid) yelling at how they need to listen to them and do what they say (a sure fire way to get people to NOT do what you want). They just want to get in there and hit some bad guys, the outcome does not matter to them.
I can be very good at all video games when I want, both those that involve skill and those that don't. Sometimes however I just don't care, or desire, to make sure I'm doing everything exactly right. A good example is the couple of times I tried WoW again. The only reason I would retry wow is because of the fun I had in higher level BGs (the rest of the game, and the lower level bgs is just plain terrible, seriously). So on my way up in levels to get to those higher level BGs, I did not care how the lower level ones went, I was just in there to grind out honor/currency/xp, I didn't care if we won or not. Everytime there would be some guy who thought he was god's gift to WoW and would try to tell everyone what to do, everytime people would get annoyed and make a point of not doing what he wanted, everytime he would cry and bitch about it. It's a game, and a lot of people care about it exactly that much. They don't care at all how well they do.
I serieusly doub OP will understand what your saying here:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
To add.... yes i realize that I just made a post slamming the intelligence of people using terrible english and what not. Its not that the stuff escapes me, its that I dont care. The point of communication is to convey a message.... not be scrutinized for technical correctness.
You answered your own question there. Like you, these simpletons are playing (just as you're posting) to have fun. It's a video game. They may not live up to your standard of toolness, but they paid to have a right to play how so ever they wish. Just as you feel that you can butcher a language to call others stupid.
The point of playing a video game is to play a video game. These players should not be scrutinized for technical correctness.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
If you've ever worked in retail, you would agree with OP. Everyday I am still shocked at the amount of slack-jawed mongoloids I have to deal with. Most people do not use their brain. It's almost like they're living in a daze, and somehow they feed themselves. No one knows everything, but just taking a few minutes to think or plan something out can go a long way.
My first job as a teenager was working in retail. It was amazing how dumb some people can be. Nobody would believe the stories of sheer stupidity unless they've worked in a similar business.
"This container of dish soap is $3.99, I have a $1 coupon... how much is it going to be?"
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
If you've ever worked in retail, you would agree with OP. Everyday I am still shocked at the amount of slack-jawed mongoloids I have to deal with. Most people do not use their brain. It's almost like they're living in a daze, and somehow they feed themselves. No one knows everything, but just taking a few minutes to think or plan something out can go a long way.
My first job as a teenager was working in retail. It was amazing how dumb some people can be. Nobody would believe the stories of sheer stupidity unless they've worked in a similar business.
"This container of dish soap is $3.99, I have a $1 coupon... how much is it going to be?"
I have a friend who works at a help desk and i always lol when he tells stories about certain callers :
"sir i have a problem with my PC , it doesn't want to start up anymore"
"did you check if your computer is plugged in correctly"
"oh thank you"
Ur dur? Or the best one is when one complained about his laptop not starting up anymore , after a while it appeared the guy dropped it into water...
You'd think such things only happen in movies, but nope, humanity is that stupid.
But when it comes to games i give the benefit of doubt. Some people might just don't want to do the required efforts because "its just a game" or are tired and such. I sometimes failed in WoW simply because i lost attention (MSN spam , when the raid lasts until 2 am you do get sleepy, etc...) and you can't really know if player A you meet is always that bad or not. Tho , yes , it is sometimes depressing. Or i love it when someone tries to use a sniper against a Panther in CoH , rare cases but still cracks me up.
EDIT: anyone else also heard the story about the guy who put his cat in the microwave oven to dry it?
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
You shouldn't assume things about people that you dont actually know, brah
To me you have lost all credit within this post at this point... BUT! I will say that I find a lot of people within MMOs and not just WoW that are sub-par to my gaming standards. Will I say they are stupid... no not unless I have more information (They get drunk everyday, toke up everyday let alone every few hours, and just have no commonsense or even understanding of basic functions of humanity...) Things like this I have come across on many different games and the list can continue on for a very long time.
So what can you do about it? Just get the hell out of Dodge and either not play with such people or better yet just unplug your ethernet cable and get off the internet... even the most stupid people can get on the internet now a days so looks like you are screwed if you cant put up with them XD
Well, first of all they are games. Second, well - there really is no need for a second or a third. They are games that people play to have fun, escape from the day to day grind, or for whatever reason they may have. They are just games. Some folks do not live their lives around how well they perform in a game.
Oh wait, there is a second there I guess. Think it would be more a case of looking at the folks that complain about somebody being bad in a game and why that matters so much to them as opposed to the person that is just passing some time and probably does not care...
Just saying...you know?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
1) How do you know that they are stupid instead of that they don't care? May be they just think .. well it is a game, and i will just do whatever?
2) Some fights is WAY more than just pushing a few buttons in a sequence. I was diong Sindragosa hard mode the other day with my guild (we still haven't down him in hard mode). You have to know where to go, you have to know to avoid his attack by hiding behind the ice tombs .. there can be multiple things going on all at once and one mistake wipe the encounter. Not only memoizing a sequence of button wont work, you need to coordinate with all your guildmates and one slip of attention can get you killed .. and too many people got killed will also wipe the raid because of the enrage timer.
Well, first of all they are games. Second, well - there really is no need for a second or a third. They are games that people play to have fun, escape from the day to day grind, or for whatever reason they may have. They are just games. Some folks do not live their lives around how well they perform in a game.
Oh wait, there is a second there I guess. Think it would be more a case of looking at the folks that complain about somebody being bad in a game and why that matters so much to them as opposed to the person that is just passing some time and probably does not care...
Just saying...you know?
That's actually a great point.
But anyway if you have a problem with playing with people who aren't up to your standards then find people who are. When I was investing a lot of time and energy into world of warcraft I worked up to the point where I got into one of the top guilds on my server for raiding and doing dungeons, I did arena with people who had high arena ratings, and I made my own premade battleground groups usually with people I knew had skill.
Other times I played WoW, I just played casually with other casuals, and I will say looking back I had more fun with the casuals. It was a million times more challenging for raids and such because we were undergeared and most people didn't put much effort into learning the fights and stuff, but we would have a great time in vent, and when we actually accomplished something it was that much sweeter. In the top guilds on the server I met some cool people, and it was alright, but after the rush of burning through the raids and hardmodes (which I'll add was a short lived rush), playing WoW started to feel like a job since weekly attendance was required and all that jazz.
-------------------------- Playing: FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS My Rig: GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Some games cull out bad players. They cull them out by punishing bad play. You are playing a game that doesn't. Not only does WoW not punish bad play, you can fail your way to success. So what if you run headlong into 5 people alone? You still get a reward.
If you want to see better players, play better games.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Some games cull out bad players. They cull them out by punishing bad play. You are playing a game that doesn't. Not only does WoW not punish bad play, you can fail your way to success. So what if you run headlong into 5 people alone? You still get a reward.
If you want to see better players, play better games.
Also a great point, well put. I've heard a million people who play WoW complain about playing with "bads" and "newbs" I wish I would have thought to tell them that.
-------------------------- Playing: FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS My Rig: GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
So now I really wonder just HOW stupid is the human race? I mean, this is just sad........
It doesn't mean this relates to intelligence in any way.
Some people play MMO very casually, even if they play a lot. There's sometimes just no willingness to learn all the mechanics, they are careless and don't take the game very serious.
A lot of moms and older generation players play MMO too now, for many an MMO is their first game ever. Many watch TV / read while playing.
There are so many factors, it's hard to relate intelligence to MMO competence.
There are people who can't drive at all, still they do it almost daily, doesn't mean they're stupid does it. They just lack willingness to learn it, are too busy, don't care, or never learned the right way to drive / park. Not everything is a sign of intelligence.
As a mother and, I assume, at age 53 someone you would classify as "older generation", I would just like to point out that I am. despite my age, gender and motherhood, intelligent. This depends on how you classify "intelligence", of course, but I am using it to describe the fact that I am thoughtful, analytical and able to make up my own mind about things (plus, although this isn't my own measure of intelligence, but used by lots of people, I have a first class honours degree). None of this usually matters, but I just wanted to point out that it's not a great idea to stereotype people ( for example by implying mothers and older people might not be quite as intelligent as other members of the population).
To the OP, I have often wondered similar things when playing an mmo, particularly in a pvp situation (Alterac Valley in WoW springs to mind) where an experienced player types out clear instructions for a strategy which is simple and effective. Even if I am new to that battleground, I can usually assess fairly easily which strategies will work and which won't, and I'm quite happy to follow directions. I always find it puzzling that the majority of players in the battleground, however, seem to ignore what is being typed. I'm not advocating blind obedience (in fact I tend to be very anti-authority), I'm talking about following a strategy which is laid out clearly and is obviously a useful one. I suppose that perhaps some of the players can't understand English, or want to do their own thing, or might not bother to read chat, or have some other reason for not responding, but as I progress through life (and games) I realise that actually lots of people just don't seem to think much at all. I don't conclude from this that they are stupid, or incapable of thought, but I know from talking to people from my teens onwards that most people will say to me "you think too much" whilst I quietly wonder why they don't seem to think at all ^^
Don't bother with Evasia, OP, he/she doesn't really contribute, they just instigate.
The interent has become an international forum where anyone with enough skill with a computer can project their opinions in a written, audio, and/or visual manner. The problem is, you also see how just plain stupid, ignorant, and hateful some people can be. And by some, I mean 98% of Youtube.
MMO's have less of a problem with the hateful and ignorant, because people generally want to have fun with their games, and an MMO is technically a game-a way of enjoying yourself by competing in an enviornment with basic rules (I've yet to see a calvin-ball MMO with selective physics modifiers, but that alone sounds epic).
The MMO market is starting to cater to the masses. Problem is, the masses are starting to hate the genre.
But the OP is correct. Comments on youtube only support his point.
The stupid person in a battleground isn't the one who runs alone into five enemies. I've done that myself a few times, and when I've done it I've always had a very clear purpose in mind - usually to create a distraction, and to lure enemies into looking into a particular direction, and away from the real important thing in a battleground (e.g. in Warsong Gulch, the flag). Also, committing suicide can sometimes be the fastest way to travel from one end of a battleground to the other, and this can occasionally be very useful.
I always play battlegrounds with one objective. To win. And if sometimes a pawn (myself) must be sacrificed in order to checkmate the enemy king, then I will die without hesitation.
However, I also see a great deal of activity in battlegrounds that's tactically awful and sometimes downright stupid. Examples include:
- People gathering in a single huge zerg in AB and never defending bases.
- People continuing to fight at the flag in EoTS when no towers are controlled.
- People doing zero damage to vehicles in SoTA
However, it's often quite hard to distinguish on which occasions this behaviour is motivated by people who don't care about winning (HK farmers), stupidity, lack of experience, or lack of gear (e.g. many low geared people will zerg even when that's tactically bad, since they are afraid to fight in smaller groups).
It's really impossible to tell the true cause of seemingly bad tactical actions in battlegrounds. Generally I just assume that it's a mix of motivations, and try to appeal to at least some people people to do the right thing. Ignorance and stupidity are the easiest situations to deal with, since even stupid people can learn, albeit more slowly. Many things that regular PvPers take for granted (e.g. playing with the map on, or how the scoring system for a BG works) are not even considered by new players, so there's no real harm in occasionally pointing out how such things work (and I know I may sometimes come accross to other people as talking down to them. I don't care. I'm in it to win).
I'm also curious as to what the OP says about battlegrounds "there's always a few simple strategies that always work". That may be true in a few battlegrounds (e.g. SoTA, AV). However, in my experience that's not always the case. Consider one of the older battlegrounds "Arathi Basin". A lot of otherwise intelligent people will regularly insist that "Take 3 and hold" is the best strategy. Doubtless a few people reading this forum feel the same way. They think that's obviously right and anything else is stupid. However, I can assure you that battleground strategy is never so simple, and if you do only a cursory search on the web about AB strategy you will find a huge number of highly experienced PvPers who will tell you that take 3 and hold is foolish, and give well reasoned arguments to support their case.
A lot of moms and older generation players play MMO too now, for many an MMO is their first game ever.
As a mother and, I assume, at age 53 someone you would classify as "older generation", I would just like to point out that I am. despite my age, gender and motherhood, intelligent.
I have a first class honours degree
None of this usually matters, but I just wanted to point out that it's not a great idea to stereotype people ( for example by implying mothers and older people might not be quite as intelligent as other members of the population).
I never implied they were not intelligent, I never connected a generation to lack of intelligence, I did point out many were virgins to games altogether.
Btw, I don't care if you have a degree or not, I have never considered a piece of paper a sign of intelligence. If you think that paper makes you intelligent, as you say so yourself, more power to you.
Comments
Human race? We keep making the same mistakes all throughout history. We're the only living creatures on this planet that organizes and sets out to destroy each other on a massive scale. That's how stupid we are.
/end depressing note
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
It doesn't mean this relates to intelligence in any way.
Some people play MMO very casually, even if they play a lot. There's sometimes just no willingness to learn all the mechanics, they are careless and don't take the game very serious.
A lot of moms and older generation players play MMO too now, for many an MMO is their first game ever. Many watch TV / read while playing.
There are so many factors, it's hard to relate intelligence to MMO competence.
There are people who can't drive at all, still they do it almost daily, doesn't mean they're stupid does it. They just lack willingness to learn it, are too busy, don't care, or never learned the right way to drive / park. Not everything is a sign of intelligence.
Just gonna quote this for truth. Just because someone plays an MMORPG, but doesn't invest the time or effort to be "good" at it (no matter how minimal) it doesn't necessarily mean they are stupid in general as people at all. Even if it's true for the majority of people who are bad at MMORPGs it's still no reason to go around saying people are stupid because they don't play a game efficiently, and act like you are so much smarter than the average person based on your video game performance.
In my WoW career I met casual gamers who could be considered terrible, but I played with them because they were so entertaining and fun to be around, and several of them that I still talk to this day are very smart in real life, a couple of them with very high paying jobs (and not saying that a high paying job automatically = intelligence, but these particular jobs do).
Now I agree humanity has done plenty of stupid things, and we continue to do stupid things, but there are plenty of things weighted against that, that are done by people all around the world every day to try and progress and help humanity. Maybe I'm just too optimistic.
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Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
So, all throughout this post after your original post, you kept arguing that you weren't saying you were smarter than everyone else, yet you turn around and say something asinine like that. This is the stupidest thread I've ever seen. Being good at WoW doesn't prove anything as far as intelligence is concerned. For whatever reasons, some people just aren't good at certain games, be it fighting, sports, etc. But that doesn't mean they SHOULDN'T play them.
However, intelligence can be measured in this way though: If you want to step back and take ANYTHING away from how most people act/play in WoW (or any other online game for that matter), just take into consideration and count how many screwed up sentences, misspelled words and all around poor use of the english language is present.
i.e. Shud (Should), wut (what), there (when they mean "they're") etc. you get the idea.
What this shows is how either uneducated that the young population is of the 90's and 00's are or that they just don't care enough about these kinds of things anymore. At times I actually find myself annoyed by it, and I'm not sure why. I don't ever bash anyone in-game for it, I just quietly grumble to myself, and no I'm not a spelling Nazi that you'll see on there, I keep my comments to myself. I guess I'm just an "old man", but I just wonder what's so hard about spelling out simple words like that correctly? Is it that important to speak in "Txt language" or "leet speak"?
Anyway, I'm done ranting.
I think that most likely at least half those people aren't really stupid as you describe but are LAZY. Too lazy to research their class, too lazy to research boss fights, generally want to be carried, and/or are too bored to try hard all the time but they are still addicted to the game. And you could attribute such laziness to the overall grind that MMOs present. Just a theory.
I believe this thread is going off topic. The original intent was to discuss human stupidity, not the complexity of WoW. The OP just brought in WoW as an example.
@Aeroangel: You failed pretty hard right there. A prime example showcasing just how stupid the majority of the human race is. What the OP was saying about his brain was a GENERAL statement about the HUMAN brain. The human brain can make you breathe, keep your heart pumping, register sounds, lights, aromas, touch, and interpret all of those senses WITHOUT YOU EVEN HAVING TO THINK ABOUT THEM. After that, you can add in other stuff that you DO think about. That is only part of the potential of the human brain. You need to realize yours.
The main thing that [intelligent] people consider 'intelligence' in an MMO is common sense. No [intelligent] player will call someone else stupid for not having a particular sequence/instance memorized. However, let's say you are the only healer. Your tank is fighting something and needs heals. There happens to be an AFK DPS that is low on health as well.
Who are you supposed to heal? It's not a difficult decision. If you heal the tank, good job! If you chose the DPS, you're either incredibly stupid or just being an asshole.
Though, I suppose that does divide the 'stupid' people into two parts-retards and assholes. Again, you're not 'stupid' for not knowing an instance; you're merely uninformed.
You confuse lack of caring with intelligence. There are a lot of people (and you seem to be one of them) who take MMOs very serious. They always need to win/do well, otherwise they are angry. They also tend to verbally abuse other people in the game for not caring as much as they do.
A lot of people play MMOs to unwind and relax. They don't care if they win the BG, and they don't want some obnoxious (often times kid) yelling at how they need to listen to them and do what they say (a sure fire way to get people to NOT do what you want). They just want to get in there and hit some bad guys, the outcome does not matter to them.
I can be very good at all video games when I want, both those that involve skill and those that don't. Sometimes however I just don't care, or desire, to make sure I'm doing everything exactly right. A good example is the couple of times I tried WoW again. The only reason I would retry wow is because of the fun I had in higher level BGs (the rest of the game, and the lower level bgs is just plain terrible, seriously). So on my way up in levels to get to those higher level BGs, I did not care how the lower level ones went, I was just in there to grind out honor/currency/xp, I didn't care if we won or not. Everytime there would be some guy who thought he was god's gift to WoW and would try to tell everyone what to do, everytime people would get annoyed and make a point of not doing what he wanted, everytime he would cry and bitch about it. It's a game, and a lot of people care about it exactly that much. They don't care at all how well they do.
A vast majority of humanity seems to believe a vast majority of the rest of humanity is stupid.
You can't all be right since people are not pointing fingers at themselves. So you might want to look a little deeper.
I serieusly doub OP will understand what your saying here:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
You answered your own question there. Like you, these simpletons are playing (just as you're posting) to have fun. It's a video game. They may not live up to your standard of toolness, but they paid to have a right to play how so ever they wish. Just as you feel that you can butcher a language to call others stupid.
The point of playing a video game is to play a video game. These players should not be scrutinized for technical correctness.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
every time someone discusses the topic, the OP slaps them down. perhaps he should go post elsewhere about how stupid WE are now..
My first job as a teenager was working in retail. It was amazing how dumb some people can be. Nobody would believe the stories of sheer stupidity unless they've worked in a similar business.
"This container of dish soap is $3.99, I have a $1 coupon... how much is it going to be?"
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
I have a friend who works at a help desk and i always lol when he tells stories about certain callers :
"sir i have a problem with my PC , it doesn't want to start up anymore"
"did you check if your computer is plugged in correctly"
"oh thank you"
Ur dur? Or the best one is when one complained about his laptop not starting up anymore , after a while it appeared the guy dropped it into water...
You'd think such things only happen in movies, but nope, humanity is that stupid.
But when it comes to games i give the benefit of doubt. Some people might just don't want to do the required efforts because "its just a game" or are tired and such. I sometimes failed in WoW simply because i lost attention (MSN spam , when the raid lasts until 2 am you do get sleepy, etc...) and you can't really know if player A you meet is always that bad or not. Tho , yes , it is sometimes depressing. Or i love it when someone tries to use a sniper against a Panther in CoH , rare cases but still cracks me up.
EDIT: anyone else also heard the story about the guy who put his cat in the microwave oven to dry it?
Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.
To me you have lost all credit within this post at this point... BUT! I will say that I find a lot of people within MMOs and not just WoW that are sub-par to my gaming standards. Will I say they are stupid... no not unless I have more information (They get drunk everyday, toke up everyday let alone every few hours, and just have no commonsense or even understanding of basic functions of humanity...) Things like this I have come across on many different games and the list can continue on for a very long time.
So what can you do about it? Just get the hell out of Dodge and either not play with such people or better yet just unplug your ethernet cable and get off the internet... even the most stupid people can get on the internet now a days so looks like you are screwed if you cant put up with them XD
I think it would be more appropriate to direct this thread at specifically mmo players rather than all of humanity.
Their's intelligent/worthwhile people out there, we just aren't them. :P
Maybe you but I sure think of myself at least somewhat intelligent and for sure damn worthwhile.... I mean what would this world be without me?
*cough* better off *cough* but hey someone has to go kick down doors and arrest people >.<
Well, first of all they are games. Second, well - there really is no need for a second or a third. They are games that people play to have fun, escape from the day to day grind, or for whatever reason they may have. They are just games. Some folks do not live their lives around how well they perform in a game.
Oh wait, there is a second there I guess. Think it would be more a case of looking at the folks that complain about somebody being bad in a game and why that matters so much to them as opposed to the person that is just passing some time and probably does not care...
Just saying...you know?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Couple of points.
1) How do you know that they are stupid instead of that they don't care? May be they just think .. well it is a game, and i will just do whatever?
2) Some fights is WAY more than just pushing a few buttons in a sequence. I was diong Sindragosa hard mode the other day with my guild (we still haven't down him in hard mode). You have to know where to go, you have to know to avoid his attack by hiding behind the ice tombs .. there can be multiple things going on all at once and one mistake wipe the encounter. Not only memoizing a sequence of button wont work, you need to coordinate with all your guildmates and one slip of attention can get you killed .. and too many people got killed will also wipe the raid because of the enrage timer.
That's actually a great point.
But anyway if you have a problem with playing with people who aren't up to your standards then find people who are. When I was investing a lot of time and energy into world of warcraft I worked up to the point where I got into one of the top guilds on my server for raiding and doing dungeons, I did arena with people who had high arena ratings, and I made my own premade battleground groups usually with people I knew had skill.
Other times I played WoW, I just played casually with other casuals, and I will say looking back I had more fun with the casuals. It was a million times more challenging for raids and such because we were undergeared and most people didn't put much effort into learning the fights and stuff, but we would have a great time in vent, and when we actually accomplished something it was that much sweeter. In the top guilds on the server I met some cool people, and it was alright, but after the rush of burning through the raids and hardmodes (which I'll add was a short lived rush), playing WoW started to feel like a job since weekly attendance was required and all that jazz.
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Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
Some games cull out bad players. They cull them out by punishing bad play. You are playing a game that doesn't. Not only does WoW not punish bad play, you can fail your way to success. So what if you run headlong into 5 people alone? You still get a reward.
If you want to see better players, play better games.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Also a great point, well put. I've heard a million people who play WoW complain about playing with "bads" and "newbs" I wish I would have thought to tell them that.
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Playing:
FFXIV, TERA, LoL, and HoTS
My Rig:
GPU: GeForce GTX 770, CPU: i7-4790K, Memory: 16 GB RAM
As a mother and, I assume, at age 53 someone you would classify as "older generation", I would just like to point out that I am. despite my age, gender and motherhood, intelligent. This depends on how you classify "intelligence", of course, but I am using it to describe the fact that I am thoughtful, analytical and able to make up my own mind about things (plus, although this isn't my own measure of intelligence, but used by lots of people, I have a first class honours degree). None of this usually matters, but I just wanted to point out that it's not a great idea to stereotype people ( for example by implying mothers and older people might not be quite as intelligent as other members of the population).
To the OP, I have often wondered similar things when playing an mmo, particularly in a pvp situation (Alterac Valley in WoW springs to mind) where an experienced player types out clear instructions for a strategy which is simple and effective. Even if I am new to that battleground, I can usually assess fairly easily which strategies will work and which won't, and I'm quite happy to follow directions. I always find it puzzling that the majority of players in the battleground, however, seem to ignore what is being typed. I'm not advocating blind obedience (in fact I tend to be very anti-authority), I'm talking about following a strategy which is laid out clearly and is obviously a useful one. I suppose that perhaps some of the players can't understand English, or want to do their own thing, or might not bother to read chat, or have some other reason for not responding, but as I progress through life (and games) I realise that actually lots of people just don't seem to think much at all. I don't conclude from this that they are stupid, or incapable of thought, but I know from talking to people from my teens onwards that most people will say to me "you think too much" whilst I quietly wonder why they don't seem to think at all ^^
Don't bother with Evasia, OP, he/she doesn't really contribute, they just instigate.
The interent has become an international forum where anyone with enough skill with a computer can project their opinions in a written, audio, and/or visual manner. The problem is, you also see how just plain stupid, ignorant, and hateful some people can be. And by some, I mean 98% of Youtube.
MMO's have less of a problem with the hateful and ignorant, because people generally want to have fun with their games, and an MMO is technically a game-a way of enjoying yourself by competing in an enviornment with basic rules (I've yet to see a calvin-ball MMO with selective physics modifiers, but that alone sounds epic).
The MMO market is starting to cater to the masses. Problem is, the masses are starting to hate the genre.
But the OP is correct. Comments on youtube only support his point.
The stupid person in a battleground isn't the one who runs alone into five enemies. I've done that myself a few times, and when I've done it I've always had a very clear purpose in mind - usually to create a distraction, and to lure enemies into looking into a particular direction, and away from the real important thing in a battleground (e.g. in Warsong Gulch, the flag). Also, committing suicide can sometimes be the fastest way to travel from one end of a battleground to the other, and this can occasionally be very useful.
I always play battlegrounds with one objective. To win. And if sometimes a pawn (myself) must be sacrificed in order to checkmate the enemy king, then I will die without hesitation.
However, I also see a great deal of activity in battlegrounds that's tactically awful and sometimes downright stupid. Examples include:
- People gathering in a single huge zerg in AB and never defending bases.
- People continuing to fight at the flag in EoTS when no towers are controlled.
- People doing zero damage to vehicles in SoTA
However, it's often quite hard to distinguish on which occasions this behaviour is motivated by people who don't care about winning (HK farmers), stupidity, lack of experience, or lack of gear (e.g. many low geared people will zerg even when that's tactically bad, since they are afraid to fight in smaller groups).
It's really impossible to tell the true cause of seemingly bad tactical actions in battlegrounds. Generally I just assume that it's a mix of motivations, and try to appeal to at least some people people to do the right thing. Ignorance and stupidity are the easiest situations to deal with, since even stupid people can learn, albeit more slowly. Many things that regular PvPers take for granted (e.g. playing with the map on, or how the scoring system for a BG works) are not even considered by new players, so there's no real harm in occasionally pointing out how such things work (and I know I may sometimes come accross to other people as talking down to them. I don't care. I'm in it to win).
I'm also curious as to what the OP says about battlegrounds "there's always a few simple strategies that always work". That may be true in a few battlegrounds (e.g. SoTA, AV). However, in my experience that's not always the case. Consider one of the older battlegrounds "Arathi Basin". A lot of otherwise intelligent people will regularly insist that "Take 3 and hold" is the best strategy. Doubtless a few people reading this forum feel the same way. They think that's obviously right and anything else is stupid. However, I can assure you that battleground strategy is never so simple, and if you do only a cursory search on the web about AB strategy you will find a huge number of highly experienced PvPers who will tell you that take 3 and hold is foolish, and give well reasoned arguments to support their case.
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I never implied they were not intelligent, I never connected a generation to lack of intelligence, I did point out many were virgins to games altogether.
Btw, I don't care if you have a degree or not, I have never considered a piece of paper a sign of intelligence. If you think that paper makes you intelligent, as you say so yourself, more power to you.