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Why do games after 2005 SUK!!
Sinnrise
Member Posts: 97
Hello All
I have been coming to this site for many years looking for different mmo's to play. I look at the game list often and realized something.
That all the GOOD games were made pre 2005(or should I say pre WOW). Here is my list of games pre 2005 that I feel are great games, either I have played them or know someone who has and they highly reccomend.
1. Asherons Call- 1999- played for 6 years
2. Anarchy Online - 2001- played for 4 years
3.City of Heroes - 2004- played for 3 years
4. DOAC - 2001- played for 2 years
5. Entropia -2003- played very little, not bad if you are into those games.
6. Eve Online- 2003- played very little, not a bad game, not my style.
7. Everquest- 1999- played for 3 years
8. Everquest II - 2004- played for 3 years.
9. Final Fantasy XI - 2003- played on off for years
10. Guild Wars - 2005- played on/off for years
11.Lineage - 1998 never played.
12. Lineage II 2004- played very little
13. LOTR- 2007- one of the few descent games made after 2005. Played on/off for years
14. Planetside- 2003- played 1 yr great game.
15. Priston Tale - 2001- played little not bad.
16. Runescape - 2004. never played here good things about it.
17.Ryzom- 2004 never played heard good things.
18. Second Life - 2003 never played here good things
19. SWG - 2003- never played heard back in the day this was the SHIT. good game.
20. Ultima Online 1997- played on/pff great game.
Therre are a few F2P I could have mentioned but didnt, I am sure I missed some.
Anyway 20 old skool games that were great in there day and some still are.
There is no way that you could name 20 games post 2005 that are even good.
Its a shame, I can only hope that a few games that I am interested in are better than whats being released today.
Why cant a game co. take some of the best aspects and create a GREAT game today.
Like:
skill based-AC, AO
crafting- EQ II, Vanguard.
housing, AC,
rvr - DOAC.
char creation- COH
pvp lineage II
storyline, FF, LOTR
You get the point, just my thoughts and i am wondering if anyone else feels this way.
Sinn
Comments
Because WoW came out around that time, and pushed MMOs to be semi-mainstream by dumbing down MMO concepts. Many developers saw how popular WoW was, and tried to clone it.
Just looking at your gaming history I can say that you've become jaded. You were new to the genre, you started playing these games, had a great time, saw epic things, made friends, etc. and now you can't do that because you burnt yourself out.
And now when you try new games you compare them to the your first games (when you were new and didn't know any other games) and due to nostalgia and some false sense of history you call the new breed of games bad.
Then you say "do you remember back when games were good?" and someone will come along and say "these games were always bad."
This whole new thing of saying people are jaded and burnt out is quite annoying. MMORPGs arent being made anymore. Just shells of older games. When you copy a copy of a copy it starts to look like shit eventually. So until someone comes out wearing a light bulb glued to their head (it has to be turned on) there isn't going to be anything to rejuvenate this as of late.. shitty genre.
Why do all automobiles suck since the 1970 Dodge Challenger? You either dirve whats available or you take the bus. Play whats available or dont play. Things change, either adapt or move on.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
They dont. People just love the first mmos they played the most. Its like music, i hear all the time how people love the music they grew up on the most.
It's true that after having experienced MMO after MMO that someone can become jaded.
But that's not all that's the case here. I believe too that in those early years in the MMO genre it feels like there was more interesting developments happening than in the last few years: the progress made in the MMO genre from 1999-2005 looks to be more than the overall progress made in the MMO genre in the years 2006 - 2010.
You only have to look at the giant step into fully 3D MMO with EQ - and EQ did a lot of things right, it gave off a great feeling of a magical, vast, living and breathing world - but also gameplay like the RvR of DAoC or the massive warfare of a Planetside, or deep tactical team PvP of a GW for example.
I do think though that those 'dry years' that 2006-2010 were are coming to an end, with the upcoming MMO's that are almost here: FFXIV is a nice kickoff, only to be followed by even more impressive MMO's like a GW2 and SW:ToR, but also a TERA, Rift, TSW and WoD. All those together will give the MMO genre a firm boost, I think.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I don't think all of them have sucked since 2005. I'm not going to name off the ones I enjoy since it would just start argument towards why they aren't good, but people are allowed to have opinions. I'll agree, there were a lot more quality games that came out pre 2005 for MMORPG's in general, but back then, all there could be were new ideas, now the companies figured out what the masses like and are trying to emulate it's success by creating products that are somewhat similar.
I agree with the original poster of this thread. The bottom line is that online gaming has gone more towards looks than it has feel. Developers want to make fast money instead of making a great longterm game. I would rather play a great game with pathetic graphics than a horrid game with the most modern day graphics.
Everything seems to be look good first and play good second. They need to get back to play good first and look good second.
Good Discussion here
First off I dont think all games after 2005 suk, there are some good ones but ALOT of ones that just dont have the depth like the old school games. I think Vanguard is a GREAT game it just got off to a bad start, AOC is very good too, I dont know I hope games like FF, Star Wars, GW2 and some others turn out good and help the MMO industry.
And Im not burnt out at all, I have been playing mmo's since late 90's on and off and just would like too see something like an AC, EQ or AO thats all.
Sinn
tell me about it i've actually been going backwards playing stuff from the past i enjoyed but they just aren't as fun now as they were back when i was into them and now i go back to play em here and there they just don't do much for me such as runescape,guild wars, were two i played to death back when they were more popular but nowadays i can't find many games to even keep me interested.
PSN-SlyFox5679
Xfire-Slyfox5679
raptr-slygamer1979
The reason the games took a hit is because of what happened with Blizzard and Vivendi Games which shook the gaming world by storm.
After WoW was created, a loophole in the contracts allowed Blizzard to get away not paying the royalties due to the team that made the core game of Worlds of Warcraft. This resulted in court-action which sided with Vivendi Games and Blizzard. The result was that many got scared....People stopped developing titles and even someone like myself who was heavily into gaming modification and development and wanted a game programming career at one point knew that since the courts upheld people being ripped off, it wouldn't stop many companies from doing the very same thing..
...as a result many former game programmers or those like me who want to do game programming without having to work 60 hours a week and not have a life went to the OpenSource Development Networks and helped with Linux Development and a counter to Windows in order to help our own programming skills.
The original team that made Worlds of Warcraft left Blizzard in the majority and founded a company called ArenaNet and created Guild Wars. Years later, however the company ACTIVISION attempted to do the very same thing to Infinity Ward that Blizzard did its own programmers...and currently Infinity Ward has been fighting with Activision. The trial date and verdict for this will not be until a year from now...However if Infinity Ward wins, it reverses what happened with Blizzard and its own programmers, allowing a case to exist that could protect the rights of people.
Computer Sciences and Software Engineering is a field where workers actually do not have many rights. Many nightmares exist of people working 60 - 80 hour weeks on Salary Pay and then going home and being asked to work more. Collecting pay from working at home is viewed as being self-centered and denies people promotions. Stack this with the way the courts side with companies and corporations rather than actual workers and many do not want to be Software Engineers.
Here is an Example. Suppose you made $100,000 a year as a Software Engineer under Salary Pay from working 50 weeks a year working around 80 hours a week and 60 hours a week. How much money do you make per hour? First we can't simply multiply 80 x 50 = 4,000 or 60 x 50 = 3,000. This is wrong because after 40 hours, one makes overtime pay. All what overtime pay is time and a half. To equate time and a half, we simply multiply the extra hours worked by 1.5. So it means if you worked 80 hours a week, 40 of them were overtime hours. 40 hours overtime equals 60 hours or regular hours in pay. Just like in a 60 hour week, 20 of them are overtime hours, meaning under regular hours that would be 70. So below is our answer for both:
80 hours equals: 40 + (40 x 1.5) =100, 100 x 50 = 5,000, 100,000/5,000 = $20
60 hours equals: 40 + (20 x 1.5) = 70, 70 x 50 = 3,500, 100,000/3,500 = $28.57
Let me remind you that most people who work as software engineers in their first years do not get paid 6-figure salaries and many out there work 60 - 80 hours making a lot less. I end up fixing computers from clients and I can easilly for my work in Ratios make around $100 - $200 an hour. I tend to Charge $100 an hour at least for what I know. If someone has to PRIVATELY hire me out where all the other companies fail, they seek me out for my knowledge...Most which can't be taught in a classroom at any level.
Point is that Software Engineers are treated horribly, and we live in an Age where once 80 - 90% of a project is completed, companies fire all their workers and hire people from CHINA and INDIA to pay them pennies on the dollar and skip paying royalties. Sorry, but people do not want that kind of work environment....
Due to this, no one is going to go all out and program the best games out there, when programmers know they are being cheated from the start of the project as well as the artists.
A host of valid reasons why general agreement, MMO's have been in a "el nino" cycle for a while now.
eg's First MMO's = first experience; analogy to music at an impressionable time; development environment swallowed up by big corporations that lastly also produced wow.
I'd like to add, the original mmo's were also pioneer games in their genre with a similar pioneer community of gamers. These days a lot of the current mmo's are more mainstream both in design and community targetted. This has probably created a sense of devalued gaming experience as well as all the above and equally a community with less aggregate value per mmo title. Lessons have been hard to learn and limited by hardware and so jack of all trade games master of none have left various niche audiences disparate and disappointed.
But the list of games in OP show each of those games had some particular quality that made it good. It could be that the next set of mmo's have both learnt these lessons (finally long-term strategy) and got a synergy of them but also combined with the sufficient hardware advances to make the "massively" in mmo leap forward past a critical point. Have high hopes for the next mmo's, even if sheer weight of numbers produces a title of gold!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Salried employees do not get overtime, thats why it is salary.
I dont think games have gotten bad but to make a mmo takes a lot of time and money. Not only that but to make a great mmo you need to have lore and mechanics, Its a whole new world. You cant just pop mmos out, there like a baby and need to be nurtured. The trend of fail mmos makes sense seeing as its hard to recreate a good mmo plus if every mmo succeeded new ones would have much smaller communities.
I completely disagree. I'm in the same boat as the OP, every pre wow game was awesome, very open real world feel. Every post wow game has attempted to copy the mindless features that blizzard developed to cater towards the masses. i.e. players starting in a obvious noob area and moving farther and farther away from where you started as you progress. As opposed to in pre wow games where you were constantly going back through the low level areas because higher level areas were directly adjacent to them.
The reason why I know that what you said is not true is because of Vanguard. That is the only post wow game that attempted to bring back a real world feel and exploration. Sadly it ran out of money and released way to early, but I had more fun playing on the pvp server with only 50 other people than I have had in any other post wow game.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
--------------------
Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
There are several games I am looking forward too, and I hope they pan out.
GW2
FF14
Star wars
Rift
and a few others,
I feel WOW raised the bar and now no one is willing to jump over it.
Sinn
I hate barney music with a passion. It taught me how to be polite at a young age and I liked it then, but I still WTF whenever I hear it now.
I hate Runescape with a passion. It taught me how to play MMOs before I played the much more adult games and I loved it then, but I still WTF if I hop on now.
The OP is right. MMO's just suck now. The whole jaded argument doesn't have any hold on me when I'm stairing at an advertisment for MapleStory that's punch line is Play Free, Press Poo. What happened to massive raids, innovative features, $11.50 because we have enough content for you for 6 months?
Fix my genre please.
Long time gamers are jaded for sure but that does not mean that it makes one unreasonable in judging games.
Its more easy to see the lacking content, the lacking options/features of new games compared to older ones.
Vanguard could have been a worthy successor but is was so badly executed it failed eventually and counts as the second biggest disappointment since the SWG-debacle.
But then even good new games like Lotro and AoC lack in some parts big time.
Lotro had horrible Chars and unpleasant Classes.
AoC announced as the next big PvP-title lacks big time in that core feature, beside a lackluster crafting, economy...
All the good things that older MMOs already have developed are ignored it seems.
Crafting in SWG was a blast, RvR in Daoc was a blast, EQ had the good PvE, Ultima an interesting skillprogression and a livng world and many more examples are out there but no one learned to develop them further into an advanced gameplay to offer in one of the modern MMOs.
I absolutely like modern convenient feeatures like quest finders, automaps, fast travel, quick doable content for short time sessions etc. but at all MMOs do not offer a richer gameplay today, only a more one dimensional and more streamlined one.
If a game like Runes of Magic offers more features than a modern P2P-game there isnt something wrong then the situation is already devastating!
SWTOR is the dark horse of the future and maybe there are some not announcent MMOs yet that have a chance to impress - or to surprise us TSW could be bring fresh air into the genre?
Who knows...
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM