I'm not worried that it's going to be WoW with lightsabers, i'm worried that it's going to be KOTOR 3 with a subscription.
It will be. A single-player heavy, instance heavy, non massively multiplayer, wow mechanics type game-play with light-sabers. Bioware has all the bases covered.
Not a good reason, most of the mmo's people cite as being memorable on this site have been a companies first.
Whether it is WoW, EQ, Ultima, DAOC, Darkfall, EVE or some other; few remember a second installment as fondly.
The TOR team also contains a multitude of MMO vets, so it is not like they have no expertise on the matter.
4) Star Wars
True, while the IP gives it an edge in marketing and sales, people also come to expect a lot.
However, this is mostly true for the hardcore fans who are very vocal, but not the majority of people playing. As KOTOR was so well received and BW is going a pretty much traditionalist direction, I don't see a great deal of trouble here.
It could however, trouble expansion content.
3) Voice Acting
You admit you skip quest text anyway, but do not support an attempt to make people care because you'll most likely still skip an amount of voice acting as well?
Sounds like the problem lies in yourself and moreoverso, that they're on the right track with this.
2) Companions
I could indeed see this giving trouble in some areas of the game.
Although it might form an interesting mechanic in others.
1) WoW
A stupid sentiment, I'm surprised to read this in a featured article.
Every upcoming mmo will be said to be too much like WoW by some idiots who will call any mmo that has as much as actionbars in common with that game a clone.
Even if it were to copy every single thing from WoW, from UI to classes to PvP system to whatever, but still succeeds in making the game experience drastically different, it will be a different game altogether.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Yup. Get ready for gear-grinding supreme ala WoW. Until people stop paying for these types of games, that's exactly what you're going to get...a gear grind-fest with little player-driven economy.
I'll be passing on this one just as I did STO. Although there will be millions camping Game Stop on release day, I've learned my lessons in the past and will avoid this clone like the plague.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
It wont be WOW with lightsabres but it might be one of the games WOW copied .... with lightsabres
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
I think you should be wary of any new large IP mmo or stand alone for that matter, hype is a killer and will lead to fast disapointment, and nerd range on the forums, I have been playing mmo's since the start, I have seen many good games, that went down the tubes due to over self hype, of a new game, as Master Yoda once said, "You must first unlearn that you have learned", try to put down the preconceptions, and let the game have a fresh start, and play to enjoy not to compare it to every other game.. Nice story and something to think about.
in reply to your post Zinderin, I hate the vast consumptions of quoting the quote of the quote so, I am just going to reply.
You cannot say with certainty it will not live up to the hype. That is a will have to wait and see plus, it is definately subjective to the person playing the game. To some it may even OUTDO the Hype they had for the game. It will probably NEVER live up to any of your expectations but, again that is just my opinion ( and maybe you share that ).
Well that is that. Generally saying most games within a certain genre do not differ much from some title that reportedly or historically defines one. One can say that most FPS have not gone far from the Doom model. With just basic changes to graphics and so on. Essentially they still use the same controlls and you still do the same thing.
Basically you are not going to get wholesale changes to a genre without creating a new one. Look at APB which is trying to be a fps and MMO. Not doing either very well and getting bitch slapped from both communities. It may come to define its own genre in the future ( doubtfull but, it could happen ).
Definately agree with you here. However, it will be more of the KOTOR cannon ( which BW has developed ) that they will need to adhere to. And I believe they are going to be able to handle this well. While there will be some aspects of SW that need to be adhered too, they have a broad canvas to work with by not pigeonholing themselves within a pre-defined time-line as SWG tried to do.
Here i where I think we will have the most disagreement. While I tend to agree with the concern that too much effort here may result in some weeknesses in other areas such as questline, re-playability and so forth. I do think the intention here is to make the journey from low level to end game more entertaining and immersive.
Others have tried this with more detailed lore and in depth quests. However, lots of players do not waste the time to actually read the quest lines and tend to skip it. I remember reading somewhere that a Developer stated in an interview that results of some testing showed that 80% of the players would skip reading any questline or lore that was over 3 sentences or so ( do not recall the exact quote or number ). By adding the Voice acting to all points of the game, they have stated they are looking to enrich the players experience of participating in the story as opposed to just reading it.
Will this have the desired effect? Initially I think it will be successfull. It will become stale as all things generally do. There are also some non-storyline quests that will be redundant that you can skip through as well once you have done them before. I think BW has done a good job of giving the players the OPTION to bypass as well as enjoy and participate in the converesations in groups.
In theory. None of this can be confirmed as the next big thing until more people can give their feedback on it after playing. In summary, I can agree it is a big gamble on something that seems non-essential. However, look to #4 and understand there are not too many new and shiney things you can add to the genre that A) have not been done and do not change the core gameplay of the game.
I am not sure how Companion Characters are going to be used in the game. While I am not that familiar with it, I hope it is nothing more than what you see in GW. When you need to have a group of 2 or more to do a quest you can bring them along instead of a group or PUG.
Personally I hope they are nothing more than eye candy for the story lines and a kinda DoT that is added in the actual gameplay.
I DO NOT care for your proposal as it would promote less grouping and also feel like Dragon Age online. I personally do not like that at all. So, if this were something that were put in a game in this fashion it would definately not appeal to me. Not saying it would fail, just would not care for it.
I can OMG all day about the WoW this WOW that WOW QQ WOW comparisons. Nothing will ever change the fact that people are going to compare EVERY new game to one that was at some time successfull in some way.
If you take the core of what made WOW successfull ( lets be honest it did not re-invent the wheel here ) which is polish, smoothe gameplay, limited issues at launch, accessibility with the low processing requirements ( lets hope TOR does not have FF requirements ), a treasured history and backstory, and game play that is both simplistic and complicated at the same time. Then yes, I hope this is WOW with Lightsabers.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Good set of articles, this in combination with the "stoked" reasons. I will say I agree with all of your reasons, and I would rate myself as more on the "wary" side than the stoked side. I'm a devout SW geek from infancy, a hardcore MMO player, and a jaded SWG Vet. So while there's a lot of high hopes for SWTOR, I'm staying... realistic in my expectations.
I put a lot of time into the forums when they first started back in Oct 08, to try to help shape the way Bioware thought about the game from the get go. I've since relaxed my SWTOR forums madness, and sit back to let things unfold before I put any further thought energy into this thing.
Again, thanks for the articles, I've enjoyed reading them, and I hope Bioware is looking at all the praise/critiques and using them to hone this game before launch. Here's hoping!
Cinori Aluben - CSM6 2011 Fix The Little Things First! www.littlethingsfirst.com EVE-Online
I have to ask: why is two out of every three articles posted on this site "Five Reasons This" or "Five Reasons That"? Is the editor really keen to lists or something? It's not a big deal, but I am wondering. The front page is starting to read like the cover of a Cosmo mag. I don't want to come back a week from now to see "Five Ways to Please Your Man" on your home page. No offense if that's the direction this site is taking.
Frankly, a problem I see that you missed on this list is personal storylines. Much akin to the companions - won't (let's just take a single class in this example) every single class have predominantly the same storyline?
Sure, a couple of the choices will be different and some people will "Let Captain X Live, some will let him Die" but won't that lead to a 50 - 50 scenario where half the players have gone through the same storyline with their "Super Unique" character? Pft...
They are harping so much on story that they are leaving out the fact that immersion is being thrown out the window "Oh, giant huge plot twist... one shared with 60,000 other people... in a manner that isn't canon".
It's just... if you look at Mass Effect - the game was so unique because everyone experienced Shephard in their own way with no other people named Shephard in their universe to mingle with. In TOR there will be potentially millions of Shephards running around.
I don't like it one bit, so heres hoping the game play is awesome as the story is already blown for me.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Long answer: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS.
All jokes aside, the game is going to be WoW set in Star Wars with a few gimmicks like the cover system and voice overs. Bioware all by admitted their adoration for WoW and every single new bit of information points at TOR being yet another WoW clone (yes, I know that WoW copied other games).
Let's look at some of the features of the game:
Trinity? Check.
Raids? Check.
Instances? Check.
Battlegrounds? Check.
Gear driven? Check.
Quest-based gameplay? Check.
Standard fare MMO turn-based combat? Check.
Stylized (cartoony) art style? Check.
Limiting weapons/armor to certain classes? Check.
Classes? Check.
Levels? Check.
I am aware that a lot of MMOs follow the same model and it's also obvious that BioWare did not want to deviate from the flock and take any chances with their first MMO. So maybe instead of a "WoW clone," calling TOR a "uninspired rehash of the same game we have been playing for the past 10 years" would be a better idea?
Frankly, a problem I see that you missed on this list is personal storylines. Much akin to the companions - won't (let's just take a single class in this example) every single class have predominantly the same storyline?
Sure, a couple of the choices will be different and some people will "Let Captain X Live, some will let him Die" but won't that lead to a 50 - 50 scenario where half the players have gone through the same storyline with their "Super Unique" character? Pft...
They are harping so much on story that they are leaving out the fact that immersion is being thrown out the window "Oh, giant huge plot twist... one shared with 60,000 other people... in a manner that isn't canon".
It's just... if you look at Mass Effect - the game was so unique because everyone experienced Shephard in their own way with no other people named Shephard in their universe to mingle with. In TOR there will be potentially millions of Shephards running around.
I don't like it one bit, so heres hoping the game play is awesome as the story is already blown for me.
No, every class will have a completely different and unique storyline, so that's 8 of them.
There will be similarities in some of the side content, which is called a 'world arc', or a storyline that follows the conflict on that planet / world.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Long answer: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS.
All jokes aside, the game is going to be WoW set in Star Wars with a few gimmicks like the cover system and voice overs. Bioware all by admitted their adoration for WoW and every single new bit of information points at TOR being yet another WoW clone (yes, I know that WoW copied other games).
Let's look at some of the features of the game:
Trinity? Check.
Raids? Check.
Instances? Check.
Battlegrounds? Check.
Gear driven? Check.
Quest-based gameplay? Check.
Standard fare MMO turn-based combat? Check.
Stylized (cartoony) art style? Check.
Limiting weapons/armor to certain classes? Check.
I am aware that a lot of MMOs follow the same model and it's also obvious that BioWare did not want to deviate from the flock and take any chances with their first MMO. So maybe instead of a "WoW clone," calling TOR a "uninspired rehash of the same game we have been playing for the past 10 years" would be a better idea?
everything you just mentioned are the things that people love about MMO's and the reason why games like WoW are successfull and why games like SWG/Fallen Earth/Eve are not. Ultima ONline? yea, 12 years ago.
Old MMORPG style is still old.
Also, what you just mentioned is all apart of the MMORPG genre, will somebody come up with something different? Maybe, but TOR is pretty much just like all the other MMORPG, but its Star Wars so that is why people will flock to it. If you like star wars , light sabers, and blasters. This is the game for you. If not then you can always chill with the goblins and trolls of WoW.
It would be like trying to tell an FPS game not to be an FPS and to be something different. Is essentially what you are doing here.
in reply to your post Zinderin, I hate the vast consumptions of quoting the quote of the quote so, I am just going to reply.
The beauty is, you have your opinion, I have mine.
I stand by my post.
Excellent. I would expect nothing less. Just hoped you read what I put in there. I HOPE this game exceeds your expectations and comes close to meeting mine.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Long answer: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS.
All jokes aside, the game is going to be WoW set in Star Wars with a few gimmicks like the cover system and voice overs. Bioware all by admitted their adoration for WoW and every single new bit of information points at TOR being yet another WoW clone (yes, I know that WoW copied other games).
Let's look at some of the features of the game:
Trinity? Check.
Raids? Check.
Instances? Check.
Battlegrounds? Check.
Gear driven? Check.
Quest-based gameplay? Check.
Standard fare MMO turn-based combat? Check.
Stylized (cartoony) art style? Check.
Limiting weapons/armor to certain classes? Check.
I am aware that a lot of MMOs follow the same model and it's also obvious that BioWare did not want to deviate from the flock and take any chances with their first MMO. So maybe instead of a "WoW clone," calling TOR a "uninspired rehash of the same game we have been playing for the past 10 years" would be a better idea?
everything you just mentioned are the things that people love about MMO's and the reason why games like WoW are successfull and why games like SWG/Fallen Earth/Eve are not. Ultima ONline? yea, 12 years ago.
Old MMORPG style is still old.
Also, what you just mentioned is all apart of the MMORPG genre, will somebody come up with something different? Maybe, but TOR is pretty much just like all the other MMORPG, but its Star Wars so that is why people will flock to it. If you like star wars , light sabers, and blasters. This is the game for you. If not then you can always chill with the goblins and trolls of WoW.
It would be like trying to tell an FPS game not to be an FPS and to be something different. Is essentially what you are doing here.
No, what I just mentioned is a part of a certain subset games of the MMORPG genre. I'm not sure that there are any rules which dictate that MMORPGs should be designed in a specific, rigid, way. Rather the developers believe that WoW has the winning formula and are all trying to copy it... and failing.
I mean, can you name another WoW-clone that is even remotely successful?
Long answer: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS.
All jokes aside, the game is going to be WoW set in Star Wars with a few gimmicks like the cover system and voice overs. Bioware all by admitted their adoration for WoW and every single new bit of information points at TOR being yet another WoW clone (yes, I know that WoW copied other games).
Let's look at some of the features of the game:
Trinity? Check.
Raids? Check.
Instances? Check.
Battlegrounds? Check.
Gear driven? Check.
Quest-based gameplay? Check.
Standard fare MMO turn-based combat? Check.
Stylized (cartoony) art style? Check.
Limiting weapons/armor to certain classes? Check.
I am aware that a lot of MMOs follow the same model and it's also obvious that BioWare did not want to deviate from the flock and take any chances with their first MMO. So maybe instead of a "WoW clone," calling TOR a "uninspired rehash of the same game we have been playing for the past 10 years" would be a better idea?
everything you just mentioned are the things that people love about MMO's and the reason why games like WoW are successfull and why games like SWG/Fallen Earth/Eve are not. Ultima ONline? yea, 12 years ago.
Old MMORPG style is still old.
Also, what you just mentioned is all apart of the MMORPG genre, will somebody come up with something different? Maybe, but TOR is pretty much just like all the other MMORPG, but its Star Wars so that is why people will flock to it. If you like star wars , light sabers, and blasters. This is the game for you. If not then you can always chill with the goblins and trolls of WoW.
It would be like trying to tell an FPS game not to be an FPS and to be something different. Is essentially what you are doing here.
No, what I just mentioned is a part of a certain subset games of the MMORPG genre. I'm not sure that there are any rules which dictate that MMORPGs should be designed in a specific, rigid, way. Rather the developers believe that WoW has the winning formula and are all trying to copy it... and failing.
I mean, can you name another WoW-clone that is even remotely successful?
Failing because why? Sandbox MMO's are doing oh soooo much better?
Please man gimme a break. Most of these games are NOT failing they have plenty of players, problem is WoW is a household name and until you get a company that wants to invest as much into marketting as the Blizzard team has, then you wont see no game match their subscribers. I see plenty of games thriving. 500 k subs a month is just fine and dandy when you charge like 60 dollars on purchase and 15 per month. You don't think these people that are selling these wow clone games aren't making their money?
Just because game doesn't get 10 mill subs, which I doubt blizzard still has, does not make them a failure.
Failing because why? Sandbox MMO's are doing oh soooo much better?
Please man gimme a break. Most of these games are NOT failing they have plenty of players, problem is WoW is a household name and until you get a company that wants to invest as much into marketting as the Blizzard team has, then you wont see no game match their subscribers. I see plenty of games thriving. 500 k subs a month is just fine and dandy when you charge like 60 dollars on purchase and 15 per month. You don't think these people that are selling these wow clone games aren't making their money?
Just because game doesn't get 10 mill subs, which I doubt blizzard still has, does not make them a failure.
And yet, you were quick to call EVE Online and Ultima Online unsucessful... EVE Online has around 400,000 subcribers. That's probably more than AoC, WAR, STO, CO, EQ2 and Vanguard put together. Ultima Online, a 12 year old game, is still alive with over 100,000 subscribers playing on the official servers, I'm not even going to mention the unofficial servers.
Anyway, the fact is that there is more than one way to design an MMORPG. WoW's way worked for WoW but has not worked as well for other games.
PVP. I always play warrior types and what i wouldn't give for my own pocket healer. secondary, longer more thought out fights against players.
PVE: The abillity to take classes and people available not just needed. secondary, no longer dealing with the high and mighty healer just cause we need one to complete the dungeon.
Possible Con's:
PVE: I wouldn't be suprised if they use the tactic system for Dragon age with these companions. For one, its already built and utilized which is cheaper and of course people have experience using it. I still have thoughts of yelling at my computer when the darn ranger would go through the scripted tactics i gave him then pull his dagger for some fat priest-type dps...so frustrating.
PVP - Every fight starts with each person killing the companion first. I don't like predictable pvp.
I don't want to be a butt to this whole discussion on five reasons to be or not be stoked about TOR, but i think this is a blantant attempt by this site to really give Bioware and the game a bad name. I mean, the same reasons to be happy about TOR is the same reasons to not be be, come on. Since GW2 is being hyped to the high heavens now, are the writers for this site gonna have the same good/bad discussion like they are doing here with TOR.
With all the new information and video's being released today for GW2 and other's, if they don't do the same thing, then how negative and unfair does that make them look about anything that is TOR.
I say, be equal and fair to all the games good and bad points, not just pick on one.
Frankly, a problem I see that you missed on this list is personal storylines. Much akin to the companions - won't (let's just take a single class in this example) every single class have predominantly the same storyline?
Sure, a couple of the choices will be different and some people will "Let Captain X Live, some will let him Die" but won't that lead to a 50 - 50 scenario where half the players have gone through the same storyline with their "Super Unique" character? Pft...
They are harping so much on story that they are leaving out the fact that immersion is being thrown out the window "Oh, giant huge plot twist... one shared with 60,000 other people... in a manner that isn't canon".
It's just... if you look at Mass Effect - the game was so unique because everyone experienced Shephard in their own way with no other people named Shephard in their universe to mingle with. In TOR there will be potentially millions of Shephards running around.
I don't like it one bit, so heres hoping the game play is awesome as the story is already blown for me.
Welcome to the world of MMOs, where thousands of players do the same quests on a daily basis.
In all fairness though, TOR is going to have 8 different stories (1 per class) with slight variations based on your decisions, that will probably all eventually reach 1 point in the game. The war between the Sith and the Republic. Still that's pretty cool to me.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Comments
I'm not worried that it's going to be WoW with lightsabers, i'm worried that it's going to be KOTOR 3 with a subscription.
Some very good points.
It will be. A single-player heavy, instance heavy, non massively multiplayer, wow mechanics type game-play with light-sabers. Bioware has all the bases covered.
5) First mmo
Not a good reason, most of the mmo's people cite as being memorable on this site have been a companies first.
Whether it is WoW, EQ, Ultima, DAOC, Darkfall, EVE or some other; few remember a second installment as fondly.
The TOR team also contains a multitude of MMO vets, so it is not like they have no expertise on the matter.
4) Star Wars
True, while the IP gives it an edge in marketing and sales, people also come to expect a lot.
However, this is mostly true for the hardcore fans who are very vocal, but not the majority of people playing. As KOTOR was so well received and BW is going a pretty much traditionalist direction, I don't see a great deal of trouble here.
It could however, trouble expansion content.
3) Voice Acting
You admit you skip quest text anyway, but do not support an attempt to make people care because you'll most likely still skip an amount of voice acting as well?
Sounds like the problem lies in yourself and moreoverso, that they're on the right track with this.
2) Companions
I could indeed see this giving trouble in some areas of the game.
Although it might form an interesting mechanic in others.
1) WoW
A stupid sentiment, I'm surprised to read this in a featured article.
Every upcoming mmo will be said to be too much like WoW by some idiots who will call any mmo that has as much as actionbars in common with that game a clone.
Even if it were to copy every single thing from WoW, from UI to classes to PvP system to whatever, but still succeeds in making the game experience drastically different, it will be a different game altogether.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
1.) Will It Just Be WoW with Lightsabers?
Yup. Get ready for gear-grinding supreme ala WoW. Until people stop paying for these types of games, that's exactly what you're going to get...a gear grind-fest with little player-driven economy.
I'll be passing on this one just as I did STO. Although there will be millions camping Game Stop on release day, I've learned my lessons in the past and will avoid this clone like the plague.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
It wont be WOW with lightsabres but it might be one of the games WOW copied .... with lightsabres
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
I think you should be wary of any new large IP mmo or stand alone for that matter, hype is a killer and will lead to fast disapointment, and nerd range on the forums, I have been playing mmo's since the start, I have seen many good games, that went down the tubes due to over self hype, of a new game, as Master Yoda once said, "You must first unlearn that you have learned", try to put down the preconceptions, and let the game have a fresh start, and play to enjoy not to compare it to every other game.. Nice story and something to think about.
in reply to your post Zinderin, I hate the vast consumptions of quoting the quote of the quote so, I am just going to reply.
You cannot say with certainty it will not live up to the hype. That is a will have to wait and see plus, it is definately subjective to the person playing the game. To some it may even OUTDO the Hype they had for the game. It will probably NEVER live up to any of your expectations but, again that is just my opinion ( and maybe you share that ).
#5
Well that is that. Generally saying most games within a certain genre do not differ much from some title that reportedly or historically defines one. One can say that most FPS have not gone far from the Doom model. With just basic changes to graphics and so on. Essentially they still use the same controlls and you still do the same thing.
Basically you are not going to get wholesale changes to a genre without creating a new one. Look at APB which is trying to be a fps and MMO. Not doing either very well and getting bitch slapped from both communities. It may come to define its own genre in the future ( doubtfull but, it could happen ).
#4
Definately agree with you here. However, it will be more of the KOTOR cannon ( which BW has developed ) that they will need to adhere to. And I believe they are going to be able to handle this well. While there will be some aspects of SW that need to be adhered too, they have a broad canvas to work with by not pigeonholing themselves within a pre-defined time-line as SWG tried to do.
#3
Here i where I think we will have the most disagreement. While I tend to agree with the concern that too much effort here may result in some weeknesses in other areas such as questline, re-playability and so forth. I do think the intention here is to make the journey from low level to end game more entertaining and immersive.
Others have tried this with more detailed lore and in depth quests. However, lots of players do not waste the time to actually read the quest lines and tend to skip it. I remember reading somewhere that a Developer stated in an interview that results of some testing showed that 80% of the players would skip reading any questline or lore that was over 3 sentences or so ( do not recall the exact quote or number ). By adding the Voice acting to all points of the game, they have stated they are looking to enrich the players experience of participating in the story as opposed to just reading it.
Will this have the desired effect? Initially I think it will be successfull. It will become stale as all things generally do. There are also some non-storyline quests that will be redundant that you can skip through as well once you have done them before. I think BW has done a good job of giving the players the OPTION to bypass as well as enjoy and participate in the converesations in groups.
In theory. None of this can be confirmed as the next big thing until more people can give their feedback on it after playing. In summary, I can agree it is a big gamble on something that seems non-essential. However, look to #4 and understand there are not too many new and shiney things you can add to the genre that A) have not been done and
do not change the core gameplay of the game.
#2
I am not sure how Companion Characters are going to be used in the game. While I am not that familiar with it, I hope it is nothing more than what you see in GW. When you need to have a group of 2 or more to do a quest you can bring them along instead of a group or PUG.
Personally I hope they are nothing more than eye candy for the story lines and a kinda DoT that is added in the actual gameplay.
I DO NOT care for your proposal as it would promote less grouping and also feel like Dragon Age online. I personally do not like that at all. So, if this were something that were put in a game in this fashion it would definately not appeal to me. Not saying it would fail, just would not care for it.
#1
I can OMG all day about the WoW this WOW that WOW QQ WOW comparisons. Nothing will ever change the fact that people are going to compare EVERY new game to one that was at some time successfull in some way.
If you take the core of what made WOW successfull ( lets be honest it did not re-invent the wheel here ) which is polish, smoothe gameplay, limited issues at launch, accessibility with the low processing requirements ( lets hope TOR does not have FF requirements ), a treasured history and backstory, and game play that is both simplistic and complicated at the same time. Then yes, I hope this is WOW with Lightsabers.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Good set of articles, this in combination with the "stoked" reasons. I will say I agree with all of your reasons, and I would rate myself as more on the "wary" side than the stoked side. I'm a devout SW geek from infancy, a hardcore MMO player, and a jaded SWG Vet. So while there's a lot of high hopes for SWTOR, I'm staying... realistic in my expectations.
I put a lot of time into the forums when they first started back in Oct 08, to try to help shape the way Bioware thought about the game from the get go. I've since relaxed my SWTOR forums madness, and sit back to let things unfold before I put any further thought energy into this thing.
Again, thanks for the articles, I've enjoyed reading them, and I hope Bioware is looking at all the praise/critiques and using them to hone this game before launch. Here's hoping!
Cinori Aluben - CSM6 2011
Fix The Little Things First!
www.littlethingsfirst.com
EVE-Online
I have to ask: why is two out of every three articles posted on this site "Five Reasons This" or "Five Reasons That"? Is the editor really keen to lists or something? It's not a big deal, but I am wondering. The front page is starting to read like the cover of a Cosmo mag. I don't want to come back a week from now to see "Five Ways to Please Your Man" on your home page. No offense if that's the direction this site is taking.
Frankly, a problem I see that you missed on this list is personal storylines. Much akin to the companions - won't (let's just take a single class in this example) every single class have predominantly the same storyline?
Sure, a couple of the choices will be different and some people will "Let Captain X Live, some will let him Die" but won't that lead to a 50 - 50 scenario where half the players have gone through the same storyline with their "Super Unique" character? Pft...
They are harping so much on story that they are leaving out the fact that immersion is being thrown out the window "Oh, giant huge plot twist... one shared with 60,000 other people... in a manner that isn't canon".
It's just... if you look at Mass Effect - the game was so unique because everyone experienced Shephard in their own way with no other people named Shephard in their universe to mingle with. In TOR there will be potentially millions of Shephards running around.
I don't like it one bit, so heres hoping the game play is awesome as the story is already blown for me.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
OTHER PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THE COMPANION CHARACTERS.
The idea is fine for a single player game; in fact, I love it in single player games. But that's not why I play an MMO.
"1.) Will It Just Be WoW with Lightsabers?"
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS.
All jokes aside, the game is going to be WoW set in Star Wars with a few gimmicks like the cover system and voice overs. Bioware all by admitted their adoration for WoW and every single new bit of information points at TOR being yet another WoW clone (yes, I know that WoW copied other games).
Let's look at some of the features of the game:
Trinity? Check.
Raids? Check.
Instances? Check.
Battlegrounds? Check.
Gear driven? Check.
Quest-based gameplay? Check.
Standard fare MMO turn-based combat? Check.
Stylized (cartoony) art style? Check.
Limiting weapons/armor to certain classes? Check.
Classes? Check.
Levels? Check.
I am aware that a lot of MMOs follow the same model and it's also obvious that BioWare did not want to deviate from the flock and take any chances with their first MMO. So maybe instead of a "WoW clone," calling TOR a "uninspired rehash of the same game we have been playing for the past 10 years" would be a better idea?
No, every class will have a completely different and unique storyline, so that's 8 of them.
There will be similarities in some of the side content, which is called a 'world arc', or a storyline that follows the conflict on that planet / world.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
everything you just mentioned are the things that people love about MMO's and the reason why games like WoW are successfull and why games like SWG/Fallen Earth/Eve are not. Ultima ONline? yea, 12 years ago.
Old MMORPG style is still old.
Also, what you just mentioned is all apart of the MMORPG genre, will somebody come up with something different? Maybe, but TOR is pretty much just like all the other MMORPG, but its Star Wars so that is why people will flock to it. If you like star wars , light sabers, and blasters. This is the game for you. If not then you can always chill with the goblins and trolls of WoW.
It would be like trying to tell an FPS game not to be an FPS and to be something different. Is essentially what you are doing here.
The beauty is, you have your opinion, I have mine.
I stand by my post.
Excellent. I would expect nothing less. Just hoped you read what I put in there. I HOPE this game exceeds your expectations and comes close to meeting mine.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
No, what I just mentioned is a part of a certain subset games of the MMORPG genre. I'm not sure that there are any rules which dictate that MMORPGs should be designed in a specific, rigid, way. Rather the developers believe that WoW has the winning formula and are all trying to copy it... and failing.
I mean, can you name another WoW-clone that is even remotely successful?
@heartless
In the same way WoW copied and improved on EQ and EQ copied and improved over UO and UO copied and improved over......
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Failing because why? Sandbox MMO's are doing oh soooo much better?
Please man gimme a break. Most of these games are NOT failing they have plenty of players, problem is WoW is a household name and until you get a company that wants to invest as much into marketting as the Blizzard team has, then you wont see no game match their subscribers. I see plenty of games thriving. 500 k subs a month is just fine and dandy when you charge like 60 dollars on purchase and 15 per month. You don't think these people that are selling these wow clone games aren't making their money?
Just because game doesn't get 10 mill subs, which I doubt blizzard still has, does not make them a failure.
And yet, you were quick to call EVE Online and Ultima Online unsucessful... EVE Online has around 400,000 subcribers. That's probably more than AoC, WAR, STO, CO, EQ2 and Vanguard put together. Ultima Online, a 12 year old game, is still alive with over 100,000 subscribers playing on the official servers, I'm not even going to mention the unofficial servers.
Anyway, the fact is that there is more than one way to design an MMORPG. WoW's way worked for WoW but has not worked as well for other games.
companions has me both worried and excited.
Possible pro's:
PVP. I always play warrior types and what i wouldn't give for my own pocket healer. secondary, longer more thought out fights against players.
PVE: The abillity to take classes and people available not just needed. secondary, no longer dealing with the high and mighty healer just cause we need one to complete the dungeon.
Possible Con's:
PVE: I wouldn't be suprised if they use the tactic system for Dragon age with these companions. For one, its already built and utilized which is cheaper and of course people have experience using it. I still have thoughts of yelling at my computer when the darn ranger would go through the scripted tactics i gave him then pull his dagger for some fat priest-type dps...so frustrating.
PVP - Every fight starts with each person killing the companion first. I don't like predictable pvp.
I don't want to be a butt to this whole discussion on five reasons to be or not be stoked about TOR, but i think this is a blantant attempt by this site to really give Bioware and the game a bad name. I mean, the same reasons to be happy about TOR is the same reasons to not be be, come on. Since GW2 is being hyped to the high heavens now, are the writers for this site gonna have the same good/bad discussion like they are doing here with TOR.
With all the new information and video's being released today for GW2 and other's, if they don't do the same thing, then how negative and unfair does that make them look about anything that is TOR.
I say, be equal and fair to all the games good and bad points, not just pick on one.
How much did they pay you to write this?
They =/= MMORPG.com
Welcome to the world of MMOs, where thousands of players do the same quests on a daily basis.
In all fairness though, TOR is going to have 8 different stories (1 per class) with slight variations based on your decisions, that will probably all eventually reach 1 point in the game. The war between the Sith and the Republic. Still that's pretty cool to me.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!